I've added one more row of text about army expenses while you were typing.

Personally, I don't agree. If economy is market based and regions are geographically close (europe and european part of Russia) it says a lot,just like Cyber SEO used as argument.

Almost correct except the "better customer service". Have you been to Moscow? Believe me, Berlin customer service sucks a big time. I've been to many place to compare and I know what I'm talking about.

P.S. Course an average Berlin citizen is richer than an average Russian one. But if we compare Berlin citizens vs Moscow ones, I wouldn't be that sure ;)

if overpaying makes people rich, then it is like that.....

average German citizen vs. average Russian citizen, thats what I mean

there is no money that could pay me for listening German language around me, comparing to soft and nice Russian. It is a matter of person taste, of course

Yes, it's a civil war at this point, but that's not the point I was making. Yes the Militia guys will keep on fighting and get supplies from Russia, but it's very clear Putin is trying to distance Russia at this point.

Putin is no longer posturing that he's going to roll right in and take over the area.. He's distanced himself and has even started to pull troops away from the boarder. Yes some will stay to make sure fighting doesn't cross the boarder, but he's no longer keeping 40k troops on alert ready to go.

The problem now becomes if it does turn into a full on civil war, it's on Russia's boarder and this means things can and likely will spill over into Russia. This means Russia becomes less stable and bad for Russia, which is the reason Putin is backing away publicly.

now, please answer me: what would US do if, lets say, Mexico got gover. (that was legally elected before) overthrowed during bloody riots, and new gov. that would be created from these riots would say: "we are going to have trade union with China/Russia now, we will favor companies from these countries, and we changed our course by 180 degrees, on political, economic and diplomatic front..."
also, this new Mexico's government would have some issues with any Yankees on their soil and they would be racist towards them

would US concentrate some troops near border, maybe would use some paramiliatary groups, some diversion, some spies or would just sit and watch ? :-)

Who cares about this moron? Even the Ukrainian separatists are out of his control. The civilian war in the Ukraine has been started and not by Putin.

Not even a chance for that. Just trust me. If you don't, please wait. The time will tell who was right and who was wrong. As about the current situation in the Ukraine. I have predicted it in 2013 (I believe any sane person predicted it as well).

I don't feel for both sides: the Ukrainian NAZI army and the separatists. The only people I feel for are civilian Ukrainian citizens who's being killed because of this conflict. But once again, all the blood is on hands of the US and EU governments that have pushed and backed up the Maydan revolution.

Yes, Russia was wrong by annexing of Crimea (even if 90% of local citizens were supporting it), but at least I have to admit that Russia did it w/o blood. I can't imagine how many people would be killed in Crimea by now if Putin hadn't "stole" it from the Ukraine. A war in South-East is the best marker for even a complete idiot like these Americans who can't even locate the Ukraine on the World map:

http://russian.rt.com/data/7/c/b/7cb...65e31db08f.jpg

And these guys are predefining to be experts on situation in the Ukraine? Don't make me laugh please...

SO you think it would better to hand over Sevastopol base to NATO? they won't stop and force is the only one to stop them. Same applies to eastern ukraine.

I don't think so. I do respect the territorial integrity on the Ukraine. NATO is our enemy and we have to deal with it (fortunately Russia has enough power to resist). However it's not a reason to turn regular Ukrainians into our foes. That's my personal point.

Mexico is in a sort of civil war of sorts right now, but rather being different groups of civilians that dislike the other it's the drug cartels fighting each other and the govt. Tens of thousands have been killed and it's gone on since 2006, yet the US has not invaded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War

No one will attack Russia in a way you can count on firepower and men. It is done through destabilization (or coordinated destabilization in multiple regions) and making problems in bordering regions. Proximity of enemy is very important. (logistics, support, and easy media coverage from close territories , since in Russia case they can't fly over country and play TV channels with suitable messages).

It lasts for year, and in previous decades NATO already came on borders, playing on card from asslickers from ex Varszaw pact states.

Are you playing a fool or what? A drug war is just a drug war. I suspect that USA also lost a comparable amount of citizens because of drug gang wars since 2006. Yes, right on your streets. But that's not a civilian war.

Are you blind, infantile or maybe both? He told something completely different.

You will be surprised but all Western media channels are available in Russia (CNN, Fox, BBC, NBC, Deutsche Welle etc). Even EuroNews is being broadcasted here 24/7 with Russian translation for whose who don't understand English.

As about the destabilization. Perhaps NATO guys were thinking that the Ukrainian mess will destabilize Russia, but in fact they were wrong. The Putin's trust rating now is 78% which is an absolute record for him. He has never had it before and would never have it in future if there was no civilian war in the Ukraine. He had something around 50% in November 2013 and now 78 fuckin' percents (wow! just wow!) Who could imagine this a half of a year earlier?

I am not talking about that, but about emitting special programs during operations for locals. Control in media coverage completely is one of the most important things. People are hungry for info in these moments. Once cable signals are disrupted during war , people will use classic antennas. Remember bombing of Television in Belgrade?

Yes, NATO did a favor to Putin. But long term, Putin won't live forever, and blood is there and from peaceful coexistence with Ukraine like before, now we have killing, devastation and blood that no one will forget and will be only worse. As I've mentioned above, processes like these are done for years, and planned long upfront.

yeah I know what is going on Mexico right now. You may thank for that to brilliant US policy "war on drugs" and US loyal base of drugs consumers :winkwink:

yet, there still exist gov. in Mexico that is loyal to US gov. and its agencies (on many levels), have no will to change anything... note that there is no political civil war...just normal gangsters ;-)

why people just cant get along normally, always looking for enemies :winkwink:

i know i should not have opened this thread...

He used Mexico as an example, I didn't pick it. I simply stated that there is already a significant amount of fighting going on south of our boarder and it does carry over into the US.

No it's not the same as civilians fighting civilians and I said that. I simply replied to a situation in which he choose as an example being Mexico which in fact has a war going on with in it's boarders and yes it does spill into the US, but again the US is not invading Mexico due to unrest.

You think they are just little drives bys? The Cartels have standing armies and are well armed, Mexico is in a pretty significant fight.

You going to watch these videos and tell me there is no war?

Yes this is true, but keep in mind most of the political figures with-in Mexico are corrupt and bought with cartel drug money. So even though the govt is aligned with the US, it's still problematic.

You could almost say the cartels are states with-in Mexico that have no actual boarders. They are as powerful as the govt, so it's the same as fighting a well armed militia, but rather than being political motivated they are motivated by profits.

They can. Gorbachev was told that NATO won't do even a step towards Russia, when he allowed to break the Berlin's wall. And what do we have now?

Lets be fair Russia has broken pretty much every agreement with NATO, so they are not innocent. Most recently they have broken the START treaty..by testing short range cruise missiles.

Russia always breaks these agreements when it suits their needs.

yop, that's how they do politics in there ;-)

like every country... I think that both Russians are fear-fuelled by RT and Americans by their own media, and, as always - somebody is/will be making good profit from it

so i dont know...cheers guys ;]

Yes, I think it's very silly to be honest. Russians and Americans are very close to the same in many ways but it just shows what govt propaganda can do to make people think the other is a enemy.

He didn't steal anything, that land was part of Russia and when Soviet Union broke up, Hryshev (?I think don't remember) gave it to Ukraine. Last straw for Putin was, is that Crimea, every inch of it's soil covered with Russian/Soviet Union blood from the WW2, and Ukraine's n@zzls ruling the country would not go down well. yes it's good for Russia, why?
1. Russian fleet would of probably be kicked out from there once EU integration bullshit would go down, not anymore
2. 90% of people in Crimea do not feel Ukrainian, they are Russian, no matter what west tells you... you are not from there, I got many relatives and friends of relatives still partying there from the joy while usa tv says how they were forced to vote with a gun lol
3. Putin is not a dictator, he just looks after Russian interests and the west doesn't like that... i'm sure you and the west would love for Ukraine president get killed, those n@zzls gangsters took over government, Russian language right away not allowed, IMF with huge loans to suck Ukraine's resources dry, put American bases there, kick out Russian fleet, install bunch of rockets close to the border while Putin NOT SAY A WORD? you out of your mind

it's a lot deeper then that... Putin doesn't want confrontation with the West, in fact he wants to partner with everyone... but usa wants global domination, keeps pushing and pushing... how would USA feel if in Canada there was a problem and then you see a bunch of Russian officials coming over and try to rule there or give pointers? and west keeps saying how Putin building new ussr, he's not building new ussr, that ESS (Eurasian) block is financial trade partnership with countries, they don't become allies all of a sudden, it's just for trade...

Russia is not the former Soviet Union, the Soviet Union collapsed and new boarders were drawn.. Russia stole Ukraine's land..

Any examples? Pleeeeeeeease :)

Russians don't watch RT because it's in English :winkwink:

I'd say that the USA is a like mirror of the Soviet Union. I'm not joking. Russians and Americans have much more in common than many other countries. Some people just don't realize that :2 cents:

Did you say "stole"? :1orglaugh

Как говорят крымчане: "даже аннексию нужно заслужить" :winkwink:

1. True and it would have made about 0% impact on the Russian military capabilities. I don't see anyone threatening Russia military any time soon, do you?

2. The West told me that the vast majority of the Crimeans feel Russian and wanted to join Russia. I believed the West, so I am not sure what you are saying here, did "the West" lie to me?

On the other hand, in countries that are democratic, the majority vote is the only legitimate vote. Funny how what the Crimeans want matters and what the rest of the Ukrainians want, doesn't. Let Ukraine (as in the whole country, not a single village or region) vote and if they want to join Russia in ANY way, I would have nothing more to say. Passing the Putin's move - "tomorrow, I referendum you or I am sending in the troops" as a democracy is a total joke.

3. Suuuuure, the mighty Putin - looking after the common Russian' interests by putting one billion dollars a day in the pockets of his own bros. Lol, congrats to the winners.

there you go, i found russian version of RT especially for you :winkwink::winkwink::winkwink:

http://russian.rt.com/

Cool, but in fact the only version of RT I have in my TV packet is in English only ;)