Biz Thread: Dethroning the Big Tubes in the SERPs...

[XSAXS]

Ok, so 100% of the primary niche phrases and even a majority of the more obscure niches are now owned by big tubes in the SERPs. So what would it take to dethrone them?

Matt Cunts swears rankings have nothing to do with popularity (traffic quantity) and everything to do with relevance (content quality). If that's true, it seems pretty clear that porn site rankings are now based on on-site user behavior and not on-site textual content.

So with that in mind, how can a little fish swim among the whales?

The question little guys like me need to explore is... How can an affiliate webmaster achieve better analytics scores than XVideos? Of course, content plays a role, but nothing like it once did.

Discuss...

=======
EDIT: When I said "majority of the more obscure niches" I meant stuff like:

~ "Cuckold Porn"
~ "Buttplug Porn"
~ "Facesitting"
~ "Prolapse Porn"
~ "Giantess Porn"
~ "Anal Creampies"

There are still plenty of even more obscure micro-niches out there to compete for.

...And now that I'm typing this, I don't remember why I felt it was necessary to mention it. Oh well, wtf. Need to sleep.

[Arnox]

The fundamental 'problem' behind why tube sites rank so highly is because they're great for the user experience.

Let's break this down as simply as possible:

1. Google has a vested interest in ensuring it provides decent search results. If it didn't, people would not use Google. That's bad for ad revenue.

2. As part of its effort to ensuring the best possible search results, Google uses various metrics to monitor the 'usefulness' of a site to the user.

3. Because adult entertainment rarely received quality backlinks, Google has to use other metrics in order to rank sites.

4. One of the biggest user metrics Google can use is time on site. Google can do this by simply taking an average of the number of people that visit a certain site and then click 'back' on their browser or return to Google via another method to further their search within a set period of time. Google will monitor what sites are returning good results for the user and rank them higher.

5. Tube sites give the user who searches for terms such as 'big boobs' or 'lesbian porn' a wonderful experience. I imagine that the average time on site for a lot of tubes is somewhere around 10-20 minutes. To Google, this means that the user of their search engine has been given the result that they want. That's a good thing in their eyes.

6. Therefore, popular search terms are likely to be dominated by tube sites, as they provide the very best experience for people looking for relevant search terms.

So with that in mind, how can a little fish swim among the whales?

It's simple: come up with a type of site that beats tubes for the user experience.

Find an idea that beats full-length videos that have categories, thumbnail GIF hovers, tags and no account requirements.

If you want to beat the tubes, you have to provide a better experience for the user. The concept is simple.

The solution? I doubt that in the next three years anything will knock tubes off the top spots. Google has no interest in taking tubes away, because people who use Google to search for 'big black cocks' get exactly what they want in the top 5 results.

Tube sites will go as soon as technology improves or the way people interact with adult entertainment changes. For the moment, any surfer worth their salt will use tubes because they want to cum, and tube sites make that very, very easy for them to do.

[CurrentlySober]

The FUNndaMENTAL 'problem' behind why pube sites rank so highly is...

Because Pube sites are fun. I CHEW pubes !

[Barry-xlovecam]

The fundamental 'problem' behind why tube sites rank so highly is because they're great for the user experience. ...

^^^ this.

If you give people what they want (or will settle for for free) they will accept it.

This doesn't change the copyright or ethical matters but what is free *sells*.

So, they can download the content -- that is like leaving your keys in your car or your house unlocked.

What do Google and Tubes have in common? A: They both make their profits selling advertising ...

What else might they have in common? => http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/events/2012/05/searls

[rogueteens]

1. Google has a vested interest in ensuring it provides decent search results. If it didn't, people would not use Google. That's bad for ad revenue.

Apart from the way they are fucking over anyone with a website nowadays, they most certainly DO NOT provide decent search results anymore - type in anything into google and the results will be dominated by ebay and youtube results, no matter what it is you are looking for.

[ITraffic]

due to the free full length content they have tons of time on site and natural linking / social sharing , and they buy and build tons of backlinks all day, every day.

replicate that and you can beat them.

[baddog]

Anyone that takes Cutts at his word will never stand a chance.

[mineistaken]

How can an affiliate webmaster achieve better analytics scores than XVideos?

Bit of topic and may be stupid question - what about those who did not install analytics on their websites? How do google knows about on site behavior on those sites?

[TheSquealer]

Bit of topic and may be stupid question - what about those who did not install analytics on their websites? How do google knows about on site behavior on those sites?

Common sense has no place in SEO discussion....

[AdultKing]

Common sense has no place in SEO discussion....

Well said.

[baggg]

Time on site and user behavior is only a portion of good SERPs..

Check out for example pornhub,they add 100s or 1000s of videos daily (tons of fresh content for google) and gained HUGE authority http://www.opensiteexplorer.org/link...pornhub.com%2F

This takes loooong time..

[DumpManager]

I don't know if it's possible to bump the big guys on SERPS.

I think you have to think of it like a specialty store (your site) vs walmart (tube sites).
User experience should be top priority.

Try and make your site unique and build your brand (site name) so people will know your site by name without having to search.

Sometimes huge tube sites can actually have way too much content making it hard to find what the user is looking for, so a smaller niche site that specializes in it may be the way to go.

[nexcom28]

The fundamental 'problem' behind why tube sites rank so highly is because they're great for the user experience.

Let's break this down as simply as possible:

1. Google has a vested interest in ensuring it provides decent search results. If it didn't, people would not use Google. That's bad for ad revenue.

2. As part of its effort to ensuring the best possible search results, Google uses various metrics to monitor the 'usefulness' of a site to the user.

3. Because adult entertainment rarely received quality backlinks, Google has to use other metrics in order to rank sites.

4. One of the biggest user metrics Google can use is time on site. Google can do this by simply taking an average of the number of people that visit a certain site and then click 'back' on their browser or return to Google via another method to further their search within a set period of time. Google will monitor what sites are returning good results for the user and rank them higher.

5. Tube sites give the user who searches for terms such as 'big boobs' or 'lesbian porn' a wonderful experience. I imagine that the average time on site for a lot of tubes is somewhere around 10-20 minutes. To Google, this means that the user of their search engine has been given the result that they want. That's a good thing in their eyes.

6. Therefore, popular search terms are likely to be dominated by tube sites, as they provide the very best experience for people looking for relevant search terms.



It's simple: come up with a type of site that beats tubes for the user experience.

Find an idea that beats full-length videos that have categories, thumbnail GIF hovers, tags and no account requirements.

If you want to beat the tubes, you have to provide a better experience for the user. The concept is simple.

The solution? I doubt that in the next three years anything will knock tubes off the top spots. Google has no interest in taking tubes away, because people who use Google to search for 'big black cocks' get exactly what they want in the top 5 results.

Tube sites will go as soon as technology improves or the way people interact with adult entertainment changes. For the moment, any surfer worth their salt will use tubes because they want to cum, and tube sites make that very, very easy for them to do.

Would Google know if I blocked the back and close button and froze the browser if they didn't watch my 10 minute editorial?

[DumpManager]

(Side Question) If you use google analytics, does google SERPS use info it gains from that way in order to boost or drop your rankings?

[bluebook18]

The fundamental 'problem' behind why tube sites rank so highly is because they're great for the user experience.

Let's break this down as simply as possible:

1. Google has a vested interest in ensuring it provides decent search results. If it didn't, people would not use Google. That's bad for ad revenue.

2. As part of its effort to ensuring the best possible search results, Google uses various metrics to monitor the 'usefulness' of a site to the user.

3. Because adult entertainment rarely received quality backlinks, Google has to use other metrics in order to rank sites.

4. One of the biggest user metrics Google can use is time on site. Google can do this by simply taking an average of the number of people that visit a certain site and then click 'back' on their browser or return to Google via another method to further their search within a set period of time. Google will monitor what sites are returning good results for the user and rank them higher.

5. Tube sites give the user who searches for terms such as 'big boobs' or 'lesbian porn' a wonderful experience. I imagine that the average time on site for a lot of tubes is somewhere around 10-20 minutes. To Google, this means that the user of their search engine has been given the result that they want. That's a good thing in their eyes.

6. Therefore, popular search terms are likely to be dominated by tube sites, as they provide the very best experience for people looking for relevant search terms.



It's simple: come up with a type of site that beats tubes for the user experience.

Find an idea that beats full-length videos that have categories, thumbnail GIF hovers, tags and no account requirements.

If you want to beat the tubes, you have to provide a better experience for the user. The concept is simple.

The solution? I doubt that in the next three years anything will knock tubes off the top spots. Google has no interest in taking tubes away, because people who use Google to search for 'big black cocks' get exactly what they want in the top 5 results.

Tube sites will go as soon as technology improves or the way people interact with adult entertainment changes. For the moment, any surfer worth their salt will use tubes because they want to cum, and tube sites make that very, very easy for them to do.

word

[Arnox]

Bit of topic and may be stupid question - what about those who did not install analytics on their websites? How do google knows about on site behavior on those sites?

Google can do this by simply taking an average of the number of people that visit a certain site and then click 'back' on their browser or return to Google via another method to further their search within a set period of time. Google will monitor what sites are returning good results for the user and rank them higher.

(Side Question) If you use google analytics, does google SERPS use info it gains from that way in order to boost or drop your rankings?

They claim that they don't.

[XSAXS]

It's simple: come up with a type of site that beats tubes for the user experience.

Find an idea that beats full-length videos that have categories, thumbnail GIF hovers, tags and no account requirements.

If you want to beat the tubes, you have to provide a better experience for the user. The concept is simple.

The solution? I doubt that in the next three years anything will knock tubes off the top spots. Google has no interest in taking tubes away, because people who use Google to search for 'big black cocks' get exactly what they want in the top 5 results.

For the moment, any surfer worth their salt will use tubes because they want to cum, and tube sites make that very, very easy for them to do.

Exactly right. You've nailed it. The concept is indeed simple. But by no means easy.

What do Google and Tubes have in common? A: They both make their profits selling advertising ...

True. True. True.

Apart from the way they are fucking over anyone with a website nowadays, they most certainly DO NOT provide decent search results anymore - type in anything into google and the results will be dominated by ebay and youtube results, no matter what it is you are looking for.

Agreed. Their algorithm and filters seem incredibly lazy these days. It's as if someone said, "Let's just link to the top 50 or 100 go-to sites over and over again, and then bury everything else."

For what it's worth however, I have started to see a few more .XXX domains popping up in the SERPS. Not often, and not for BIG keywords, but there are a few squeaking through.

I think you have to think of it like a specialty store (your site) vs walmart (tube sites).
User experience should be top priority.

Try and make your site unique and build your brand (site name) so people will know your site by name without having to search.

I like your specialty store vs. Walmart analogy. 4Chan comes to mind. Though I detest that site, M00t has done exactly what you describe. Huge (and loyal) traffic with little help from G.

[XSAXS]

Google can do this by simply taking an average of the number of people that visit a certain site and then click 'back' on their browser or return to Google via another method to further their search within a set period of time. Google will monitor what sites are returning good results for the user and rank them higher.

I think an important metric that we're forgetting to account for is Return Visitors. If a site maintains a strong ratio of Returns vs. New... then Google can see that people genuinely like it enough to go back time and time again.

[mineistaken]

I think an important metric that we're forgetting to account for is Return Visitors. If a site maintains a strong ratio of Returns vs. New... then Google can see that people genuinely like it enough to go back time and time again.

So returns, time on site and bounce rate can be monitored by google even if you do npot have analytics installed? Never mind that they claim they do not read analytics data for serp decisions.

[XSAXS]

So returns, time on site and bounce rate can be monitored by google even if you do npot have analytics installed? Never mind that they claim they do not read analytics data for serp decisions.

Google runs the interwebs. No secret about that.

In January 2014, nearly 56% of all surfers used Chrome. 27% Firefox. 10% IE.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

So they have unfathomable amounts of data about user interactions with every website - even when Analytics is not installed.

This is what happens when any single entity (be it Google or the NSA or whoever) has too much access to too much data. The power they wield is limitless.

Welcome to the new age.

[RyuLion]

Wow! Another great thread on GFY!!

[pr0phet]

Show me a better non tube site. They are sparse.

[lezinterracial]

Google runs the interwebs. No secret about that.

In January 2014, nearly 56% of all surfers used Chrome. 27% Firefox. 10% IE.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

So they have unfathomable amounts of data about user interactions with every website - even when Analytics is not installed.

This is what happens when any single entity (be it Google or the NSA or whoever) has too much access to too much data. The power they wield is limitless.

Welcome to the new age.

Yep. And if you check your gmail, youtube, or google plus account. Then go back to chrome they can track your searches down to the individual level.

Many don't clean their cookies or log out. So they are always being tracked.

[lezinterracial]

Sorry, I meant go back to google.

[BenGentlemen]

ya, go back to google......GO BACK TO GOOGLE!!!!!!!

[artwilliams]

I think you have to think of it like a specialty store (your site) vs walmart (tube sites).

This is an excellent point. I read a story once about Walmart invading a small city. A sporting goods store ending up thriving by making itself over to a sports trophy shop. Previously, that had been a small portion of their business. Walmart, of course, doesn't sell trophies. Sometimes re-inventing yourself is the only way to go.

[signupdamnit]

It's not going to happen in the near future. Since 2011-2012 they started taking over the niche terms as well.

Our industry is controlled by these people. Try typing in the names of some mainstream movies and TV programs and tell me how many torrents and tube sites come up showing the programs for free. Hardly any. That is because that industry gives a shit and because they leveraged the law. Sure you can find it on torrent sites but it's not coming up #1 in Google.

[SmutHammer]

Yeah to bad everyone would rather give away their content for shit traffic rather than keep fighting them..

[rockeru]

The only thing that would beat the tubes would be free of charge paysites without ads streaming at full HD.

[bean-aid]

The only thing that would beat the tubes would be free of charge paysites without ads streaming at full HD.

.... and pay the surfer to watch

[TheSquealer]

The only way you can beat pornhub, tube8, keez etc etc is by going back in time to 2004 and building the same site, same structure, same methods, same backlinking strategy and so on and so on. Thinking you will dethrone them demonstrates that 1) you have no clue how they got there to begin with and how much they put into SEO, not to mention all the countless bazillions of organic links they picked up along the way and 2) how search engines work to begin with.

[trevesty]

I think spending too much time worrying about what others are doing as opposed to worrying about bettering your product / brand is a bad business strategy.

[SomeCreep]

The solution is to buyout Google, Inc. and then shut it down.

[PR_Glen]

I think spending too much time worrying about what others are doing as opposed to worrying about bettering your product / brand is a bad business strategy.

and the post of the day goes to...

[SmutHammer]

The solution is to buyout Google, Inc. and then shut it down.

Make sure to also pick up Bing and Yahoo as well.

Best thing to do is close all your accounts and DMCA all your content off them, Unless they are going to give you 50% of the earnings they get from advertisements etc.

[mineistaken]

The only way you can beat pornhub, tube8, keez etc etc is by going back in time to 2004 and building the same site, same structure, same methods, same backlinking strategy and so on and so on. Thinking you will dethrone them demonstrates that 1) you have no clue how they got there to begin with and how much they put into SEO, not to mention all the countless bazillions of organic links they picked up along the way and 2) how search engines work to begin with.

So how could we beat them without running a (full length) tube site?
Joe search engines work?

[TheSquealer]

So how could we beat them without running a (full length) tube site?
Joe search engines work?

The first answer to your question is simple... the search engines determined users are looking for full length tube sites. So.....

For pornhub et al,.. in addition to pornhub being one of the first attracting endless links from mainstream sites worldwide (media etc) for years, it took years and years and years of building content, aggressive link building, link buying and organic link baiting to get to where they are. It's like asking "How can I start a car company and beat General Motors". Or "how can we be the next Apple". Is it even a realistic goal? Do you have the time, money and inclination to fight and spend for years, suffering nothing but constant disappointment and setbacks along the way? It would take many years and come at a huge cost to do, if it could be done, at all.

Additionally, they have SEO guys in house. They are watching SERPs daily. If they slip, they'll fight back and have infinitely better, well established sites and the budgets to do it with. It took a couple years of aggressive work for the porn.com guys to get porn.com on the front page and then into the top 5 for "porn"... and thats with a prime, heavily weighted keyword domain. How do you think you'd go about beating them?

I don't think anyone really understands the scope and scale of whats being discussed. Millions and millions of SE hits a day. Plenty of people are fighting for that every single day.

[Arnox]

I don't think anyone really understands the scope and scale of whats being discussed. Millions and millions of SE hits a day. Plenty of people are fighting for that every single day.

Really? News to me.

[mopek1]

due to the free full length content they have tons of time on site and natural linking / social sharing , and they buy and build tons of backlinks all day, every day.

replicate that and you can beat them.

This.

Time on Site ---> most important.

Don't listen to anything else Matt Cutts says.

[iSpyCams]

I don't think many people need a search engine to find major tube sites anymore than they need a search engine to find Google or Facebook.

[pimpmaster9000]

you can not beat a cheater whilst playing a fair game...$ keeps tubes going so you will have to cut off their $$$...hitting their sponsors would be a good start...find say 1000 guys willing to join major tube sponsors websites and then do chargebacks...start it as a joke on 4chan for example...explain to the sponsor why it is happening...move on to next sponsor ect...

if you keep playing fair you will continue to get fucked

[Why]

is this argument really still ongoing? on-site behavior has been a KPI for google for many years, this isnt "new"

[PR_Phil]

I don't think many people need a search engine to find major tube sites anymore than they need a search engine to find Google or Facebook.

you'd be surprised at how many people google google!

[brassmonkey]

talking about illegal shit? im out peace

[Why]

you'd be surprised at how many people google google!

those stats are misleading, really that number is so high because most browsers do a default search of whatever is typed into the address bar, in most cases people just type google and hit enter. which skews these numbers greatly, as these people arent search for google per se.

[XSAXS]

Well one thing I'll add to all this doom and gloom...

We all know that Google likes to rearrange the deck chairs with some frequency. So I'm confident that sometime in the future they will release a new algo update that will shuffle around the SERPs again. Something will shift.

Plus... I think people will get tired of tubes just as they got tired of 88x88 TGPs or link lists.

MySpace, WorldSex, The Hun, Pinkworld, 89, ElephantList..... all shadows of what they once were. Sure some of those sites still have good traffic, but they don't OWN the internet the way they once did.

Innovation is key. Everything evolves.

[mopek1]

[QUOTE=XSAXS;19995455

Plus... I think people will get tired of tubes [/QUOTE]

I can't understand how people can spend hours and hours on those sites.

[chaze]

Ok, so 100% of the primary niche phrases and even a majority of the more obscure niches are now owned by big tubes in the SERPs. So what would it take to dethrone them?

Matt Cunts swears rankings have nothing to do with popularity (traffic quantity) and everything to do with relevance (content quality). If that's true, it seems pretty clear that porn site rankings are now based on on-site user behavior and not on-site textual content.

So with that in mind, how can a little fish swim among the whales?

The question little guys like me need to explore is... How can an affiliate webmaster achieve better analytics scores than XVideos? Of course, content plays a role, but nothing like it once did.

Discuss...

=======
EDIT: When I said "majority of the more obscure niches" I meant stuff like:

~ "Cuckold Porn"
~ "Buttplug Porn"
~ "Facesitting"
~ "Prolapse Porn"
~ "Giantess Porn"
~ "Anal Creampies"

There are still plenty of even more obscure micro-niches out there to compete for.

...And now that I'm typing this, I don't remember why I felt it was necessary to mention it. Oh well, wtf. Need to sleep.

You can beet them, as you can any term. You just have to get lucky and know what works.

[Marcin978]

they are ranked so high because they pay for traffic
that means tons of links to many subpages

they need even small webmasters because every links is worth
they pay not really for traffic, but they pay for links

and big tubes get even more links from many people, from blogs, from forums etc

links and structure is the key

[mineistaken]

is this argument really still ongoing? on-site behavior has been a KPI for google for many years, this isnt "new"

Well if this is most important factor then sites would not need heavy link building. Just make a site which is liked by visitors.
In theory if google wanted to give "best" (as in on site behavior) search results to people your site with 1000 links should outrank site with 100000 links given that your site has better on site beahvior stats (as it indicates that that site with 1000 links is better than site with 100000 links).