the more I work smart the more "luck" I have :2 cents:

Problem solved

/thread

In the long run luck evens out for everybody.
If you try 100 things you will be "lucky" X% of times and unlucky Y% of times.
If you try only one time and catch unlucky Y and stop, well thats too bad.

this is my main problem with what everyone is saying...there is no guarantee you will come out on top. you may work hard, pour all kinds of money into it and still not be successful and end up bankrupt and your family on the street. the idea that if you just 'work hard' you'll be successful is waayyy over simplified and almost moronic.

yeah really. was it hard work that brought steve jobs and wozniak togther? no..

I think the overall concept is that the people who have ambition and drive are the ones who keep trying until they DO succeed.
Whereas the people who do not have that are more likely to always just do enough to get by.

obviously there is more to it, you aren't going to get very far in life working hard 80 hours per week for $7/hr...

there are other details, like living below your means, always striving to improve your skills, seeking out opportunities, etc...

it's a combination of different skills and habits, which when combined more often than not lead to success...

Do you propose that Steve Jobs and Woz shook each other's hand one day and bam! the world changed?

I met Warren Buffett once. I did not become rich the next day. What did I do wrong?

Meeting someone is like an idea. Great, you met them. Great, you have an idea. Now what? Oh wait, now you have to work!

The point is there was no hard work in the 2 crossing paths. It was luck. what they did after that is where the hard work comes in.

...and from there, I am sure it was 'luck' that kept them in business for decades, not the hard work for them or all of their employees slaving away creating new ideas and innovations. It was just one lucky scratch off ticket year after year. They just had to sit around in their underwear and watch the checks roll in.

:disgust

if you were high school friends with warren buffett i'm that would have a pretty decent impact. comparing being friends for decades to a one time meeting doesn't make any sense. my point was them meeting and becoming friends forever changed the course of their lives. had they never met, while i'm sure both would of been successful at something, would they of reached the level that they actually did?

Wozniak recounted how and when he first met Steve Jobs: "We first met in 1971 during my college years, while he was in high school. A friend said, 'you should meet Steve Jobs, because he likes electronics and he also plays pranks.' So he introduced us."

Right. "Luck" doesn't mean much. It is an opportunity. It can be an realized or unrealized chance to make a difference, build a business, develop an idea or concept. As the saying goes, 'chance favors the prepared mind' as those individuals knew how best to take advantage of that opportunity when presented. The rest is on you and that requires work and ambition.

I see you're basically just playing devil's advocate in this thread, and that's fine. But my responses additionally will be along that line as I think you're simply trying to keep the discourse going on this subject playing a side you do not believe in based on your post history on similar topics.

"...and from there".... hey smart guy i am not talking about 'and from there' i am talking about how their meeting played a role. a meeting that had nothing to do with hard work.

Honestly, I now see why 12clicks makes fun of you. A 'meeting' doesn't make a business. It takes more than luck.

That's what happens when humility meets talent.

Read Good to Great by Jim Collins... of all the 15 successful CEOs they tracked for 15 years, they all shared that same common trait without exception. They attributed all their amazing to success as a result of all the amazing things they did to run the company really really well and to be in a position to meet any challenge that came along, including building amazing teams that all shared the same passion for the success of the organization, as "good luck" and took personal responsibility for every failure. All the 15 comparison company CEO's that were in the same industry, at the same time, with a company of the same size and facing the same market changes... failed as they and their egos, rode the companies into the ground. Those failing CEOs, also, without exception, took personal credit for every success and blamed "bad luck" for every failure.

:2 cents:

The funny thing is they think they are imparting some sort of wisdom... when the very things they are saying are absolute, proof positive that they are incapable of running and growing a business.... and never have.
:2 cents:

There's no question I'm OTR here that I believe achievement comes from hard work. But I'm also OTR as trying to keep a realistic outlook. I think what McCartney stated in the special coincides with what I've read, particularly in the book "Outliers". Luck is not something to count on, it doesn't take the place of hard work and perserverance. But, for me, to not include it isn't realistic.

Bill Gates is a good example, he was lucky to be born at the time he was, to the parents he was and in the environment he was. If he were born in the 1800s, he would not have been a software mogul, i.e, he was lucky in his birth, the book goes into this.

There's a reason I don't gamble or play the lottos, etc. That's because I don't believe in getting lucky as a way to make it. But again, as you point out, luck counts, to what degree it translates to fortune and fame is dependent.

and i can see why you play successful guy on the board but in reality claimed bankruptcy. you want to play with words, thats fine but anyone with a grade 8 education can get what i am trying to say.

I just bought the kindle version of this, thanks for the suggestion!

Thats really great. I love that book. I've read it countless times. Just to remind me of who i need to be and to remind myself of what it takes. It's also a fascinating study of 30 large public companies over a long period of time along with the interviews.

I do not need to play silly word games. I am sure if we dug into your past, we could find all kinds of goodies to throw in your face when you can't back up our talking points with any real facts. I rebounded from my bad decision at the time and make more money now than I did before it. I learned from my mistakes, applied what I learned, and that is why I continue to have success.

Sadly, this thread is not about 'Barefootsies'. You trying to make it about me just goes to show how little you brought to the table in the first place. Not that it surprised any of us, it has been repeated and pointed out numerous times now by people in this thread your argument is flawed from the beginning.

I certainly believe there are commonalities to success and the better I can understand those and incorporate them in my behavior, the better. So books such as this appeal to me.

While I do tend to think luck may be some sort of factor, random in its degree of impact, it's also completely arbitrary.

Agreed, and I can understand where you're coming from in that regard. :thumbsup

the same could be said for you with your 12clicks comment. that's the only reason i said what i did. i have gone massively into debt with a previous failed business but instead of claiming bankruptcy i worked hard built up a business based on another idea and over time, paid it back (with interest).

why is it so hard to just acknowledge that sometimes life events that mean nothing at the time can shape who you are and what you do in life which has little to do with hard work?

I agree with that 100%.

But having said that...AGAIN, you have to have drive and ambition to take that OPPORTUNITY and run with it.

Everybody stumbles onto opportunity in their lives at some point (hell, in my case all the time). But the vast majority don't SEE the opportunity or don't WANT it.

They feel safe and secure working their job and/or are like most people and do enough to just get by.

Do you need to be in the right place at the right time? Hell yes. But again, that comes from desire.

Paul McCartney hooked up with John Lennon because of a shared PASSION and they frequented the same places...birds of a feather.

Same with Jobs & Wozniak.

And sometimes even that's not needed at all.

For example:
Though I've had dozens of things happen from "being in the right place at the right time" (which was BECAUSE I'm ambitious and driven)...I am right now in the middle of doing something not related to adult.

And the company I partnered up with for it?

That had nothing to do with "luck" or a "chance meeting".

It had everything to do with the work I've already done.

They saw some viral things I've filmed and when they contacted me they already knew everything about me.

Heck, I even turned them down for months because I just didn't have the hours in the day.
They surprised me at Internext by showing up at the center bar at The Hard Rock with a check written out to me if all I did was say "yes".
So I did.

And this may end up being the biggest deal I've ever gotten into when it's all said and done.

So yeah I do believe that hard work, perseverance, skills, knowledge, and drive are what lead to success.

Luck = Preparation + Opportunity

And most people don't have the preparation or recognize the opportunity.
Successful people DO.

That was my point. We all are given opportunities throughout life. However, it comes down to what you DO with those opportunities that matter. Most of th examples presented, whether Gates, Jobs, Lennon are all people who came together and shared a passion for something. They took the perfect timing, and the opportunity to build something which required work to do.

As we both agree, if you have a prepared mind, you are going to recognize and seize that opportunity when it happens where as many miss it and have nothing but regret later. I think most of that stuff comes from happenstance (musicians hang together, computer nerds hang together, etc.) that breed an environment for like minds to meet up. I do not consider that 'luck' however.

That being said, I honestly do not care beyond to say, that what some see as 'luck' does not make you successful. It is seizing that opportunity and taking it to the next step, whatever that might be. Depending on where you hang out, what you have the passion to do, it will pair you with like minded folk that could potentially come together to build a better mousetrap.

Society has to create the infrastructure and climate for success.

A lot of people could be successful given the right combination of circumstances.

The Beatles form, is there a club they can perform in? Is their an audience who want to hear their music? Are their record companies prepared to invest in studio time? Are there music studios? Does American racism prevent Black music from being played on white radio but is listened to and copied in England?

Many factors allow people to succeed. If it was just down to individuals human development would be evenly distributed though out the world, but we see spurts of development where all the conditions are right.

Industrial revolution where coal steel and railways reach critical mass and demand for engineers.

Pop music in 60s in the UK

Computers in the USA in the 90s

China is now creating possibilities for its people.

McCartney met George Harrison riding the school bus to school, that chance meeting led Paul to meeting John Lennon via George Harrison and consequently joining Lennon's band.

As already mentioned, Wozniak was introduced to Jobs via someone who noticed the 2 had 2 things in common- electronics and playing pranks.

No. Paul and John were already in a band together.

"While attending Quarry Bank Grammar School in March 1957, John Lennon formed a band called the Quarrymen. John met Paul McCartney at the Woolton Garden Fete in July 1957. A few days later, Paul was asked to join the group. In February 1958. George Harrison was invited to watch the group. Paul got to know George on the morning school bus ride to Liverpool Institute. At Paul's insistence, George was asked to join the group as lead guitarist."

Hey wait a minute...I thought we were discussing the "Corporate War On The Poor".

I guess that since the CBO report that came out this week and nailed them on ObamaCare and people being disincentivized to work, BTF3K and other Democrat Party loyalists have now changed the conversation that the Obamapologists want to us all to have.

So now there is no "Corporate War On The Poor" and it turns out that it's gonna be GREAT because more people will leave the work force!

Damn...Harry Reid and Pres. Obama are geniuses!

No more "war on the poor"...because now the "poor" will be leaving the work force! And that will effectively LOWER the Unemployement Rate! (because they don't count the millions of people who have left the work force already or the ones that the CBO projects are going to leave)

Now everything is rainbows and unicorns!

Hell, maybe they can come up with a few more ideas before his term is over and get EVERYBODY to leave the work force!

Then we will have ZERO unemployment rate and everyone can "follow their dreams"

Thanks for the clarification, the way it plays out is not obvious.

nope, they rather spend the money they don't have on wars that never end.

Exactly right. All this b.s. talk about "Corporate War on The Poor" while the Federal Govt. spends more money on killing people every week than all those evil Corporations put together have.

But let's ignore the govt. and make this a cultural war instead. :(

Yeah...it's the same way that Jagger and Richards met. A passion for a certain type of music that drew them together. And then of course they had the drive, ambition, talent, and skill to take that to the next level.

That incentive for people to not work is for the ones who were working just for their healthcare, and now would rather retire or do whatever. You're just like all of the other conservatives who have twisted the report to fit your talking points. Others will step into those vacant positions. Yeah, you're a conservative. Why not just embrace it?

No I'm not. Number one I'm not "conservative"

Number 2, I'm not "twisting" anything.

Number 3, it's obvious that the Pres. advisers are changing the subject every week as something else goes wrong.

Number 4, If I were a Republican or a Conservative I'd gladly admit it. Why not? I can't believe that you would identify yourself as a Democrat. They are one of the 2 Ruling parties who are to blame for all of this.
I want nothing to do with either party. And I voted accordingly.

Number 5, Why are you trying to make this about ME? What's wrong? The facts not good enough to discuss?
Then let me refresh your memory:
The Pres., Reid, and Pelosi all have told us since 2009 that it's the "Summer Of Recovery"
The same 3 leaders told us that ObamaCare would not cost ANY jobs, and instead would help CREATE them.

I don't need to go on. But if you can't see that they are spinning this, then I would say that you are being willfully blind to the situation because you see politics as a team sport instead of what it should be.

I hear ya, I was mixed-up on the chance meetings, it was chance that George Harrison met Paul on that school bus and became the 3rd Beatle.

I haven't changed my position one bit. If you don't think we've had 30+ years of corporate rule in this country, there is no conversation to be had.

I'm all for an angry mob of people who finally resort to torches and pitchforks. A pox on both houses, as far as I'm concerned.

We truly need a revolution here in the USA. A REAL FUCKING REVOLUTION!

When our elected officials answer to special corporate interests over the will of the people, it's time to roll out the fucking guillotines!

In addition, this post wasn't even about the cherry-picked idiocy pulled from the latest CBO report.

Here's some pictures for you, since I know how much you like them...

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...79192338_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...78427247_n.jpg

Land of the fucking free!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...47014780_n.jpg

Nope, the only pictures I like are when you post up some shots of big tit sluts from Pecker Pass.

We both like slutty broads with big fucking tits, we both like to party, we both like rock and roll, and we both hate our current government.

It's funny that we always seem to be in disagreement, as logically, we should be on the same page.

If we all agree that 618 corporate-owned lawmakers in Washington were our REAL problem, things would change.

This just demonstrates the power of media manipulation and propaganda.

Divide and conquer, as they say...

they weren't working JUST for their healthcare, they were working for both paycheck + healthcare...

... and besides, what's wrong with working for something you want/need? clearly the people in question are able to work, but they will choose not to... why should society pay for something the people in question have ability to earn themselves?

I don't understand this socialist utopia bullshit... it's one thing to help those that are not able to survive without help... but it makes zero sense to help those who are able to earn what they want/need...

maybe I'm just a cold asshole, but it just doesn't seem right that my neighbor who is in perfectly good shape and is able to work will quit her job to pursue some hobby, while I'll be left with the bill to pay for her healthcare...

woj...just ADMIT you are a conservative.
That's the answer you will get from him.

He has no answers to the actual issue at hand. So (like all Obamapologists) he will attack YOU and try to put you on the defensive.

It's pretty pathetic.

You probably don't drink the right kind of beer. :1orglaugh

it's kinda funny that (some) people read 'work hard' as 1 and 1 thing only, work hard at your job. 'work hard' has a ton of applications;

1. work hard to expand your knowledge
of
a) a favourite subject/pastime (find a job you love and you'll never do a day's work in your life)
b) how to behave in different situations
c) how to conduct yourself with people in both your social and your business/work life
d) where opportunites might lie
e) etc

2. work hard to make sacrifices for just 1 year, in order to be able to take the risk of an opportunity in
a) a new job that pays less initially but where the pay is more eventually
b) starting up a business
c) moving to another area that isn't a crime-ridden shithole that demoralises you each time you walk out the door
d) taking an evening class in a better paid profession/business you want to start
e) etc

3. work hard in switching off the tv set 2 hours earlier each night to READ books on
a) a profession/business
b) investment
c) motivation
d) biographies of the successful
e) etc

4. work hard in weaning yourself off facebook/twitter/xbox/youtube for an hour less each day so you can
a) exercise to release more endorphins
b) burn off your 4 stone of excess flab
c) put 2 stone on your skinny ass
d) have more energy/zest to chase the things you want
e) etc

and so on and so on. 'work hard' doesn't just mean work hard at your job, it means work hard in all areas of your life - all of a sudden you'll get all this 'luck' that everyone except you seems to get :2 cents:

Rather than debate every single point you just made, I'll play devil's advocate, just for the fun of it....

When you imagine a technological future filled with robots and endless automation, do you see 8 billion people working longer hours for less, or do you see humanity having an easier time of it, and working shorter hours, with all of their needs covered?

To me, the only benefit from job-killing automation and technological advancements, would be to benefit and simplify MY life, and the lives of future generations.

Americans work more hours than most people on the planet, and have much less time to enjoy life.

There are two possible futures. One is set-up with a ruling minority stealing everyone's wealth while destroying the planet, and the other is much closer to a "utopian socialist society" as you seem to detest.

We are a socialist/capitalist society right now, but the balance is changing fast, and not for the better.

Maybe you're angry because you work TOO MUCH?

qft :)

amended slightly, obviously, but again, you have to 'work' at arriving at that state of mind.

work at realising that everyone, but everyone, fails at some point, at some thing.

work mentally, not just physically at whatever your job happens to be. It always, always, comes if you work - just depends on how you define and apply that 'work' :thumbsup

Maybe he's angry because he works very hard at everything he does, he plans, he takes risks, he sacrifices and compromises and gives it all to make sure he works for himself and does well,... then gets told "you're just lucky" by a bunch of shiftless assholes that have their hand out.

Sounds like a textbook case of misdirected anger, in that case.

Are you sitting on billion$ of dollar$ of record profit, and then off-shoring it, not paying taxes on it, not hiring anyone with it, and then puppeteering a divisive message through your bought-and-paid-for media?

If not, you are part of the bamboozled majority. :thumbsup

I'm sure you weren't taking to me though, as I haven't called anyone "lucky" and I don't take a dime in hand-outs of any sort. :)

No, you just support killing people you disagree with as a solution to fixing what you perceive to be the "problems". You're not insane and clearly someone the world needs.