So you are saying there would be the same amount of people doing heroine if it was legal compared to when it is illegal? :1orglaugh
You use broken logic by saying that "people die when it is illegal" not understanding that this number would be far more greater if it was legal.
It's like saying - murderers kill people when it is illegal so no point of not making it legal. As if the number of murders would not increase :1orglaugh
My point is - if it was legal we would have way more deaths.

I loved him in Twitster...loved him in Doubt and skinekdedy, ny ....one of my favorite actors ...now dead like a fucking dumb shit....46 years old I guess he was about 20 years too late...what a dumb mother fucker. No it was not a car crash which would have been "most unfortunate" it was a self inflicted drug overdose which basically means that you are a self loathing squid.

no, it doesn't require locking a junkie up. Plenty of junkies of clean up without rehab.

And also, no, taking responsibility away from the junky and making it the drug's is not true, in fact, that's a cop out.

the choice is the junkies'. just like someone shooting and killing someone with a gun. The gun didn't pull the trigger, the shooter did.

Exact same logic they used for Alcohol Prohibition in 1929.

Well too bad for you this has been tried already and it worked. So yes if it was legal LESS people would be addicted, LESS people would die, and we wouldn't be spending 50,000.00 per year per inmate for non violet drug offenses. The United States has 5% of the worlds population, 25% of the worlds prison population, and 50% of all inmates are drug related...

So lets look at the reality Nancy Reagan has nightmares about (and you with your constant "junkie" calling of people).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-n..._b_891703.html

"July 1st was the 10th anniversary of Portugal decriminalizing drug use. In 2001, Portugal decriminalized the possession of small amounts of all illicit substances. Having small amounts of drugs is no longer a criminal offense. It's still against the rules; it just won't get you thrown in jail or prison. It's a civil offense -- like a ticket. Portugal continues to punish sales and trafficking of illicit substances."

I disagree.

In Portugal they waged a war against drugs for years and did just like the U.S. does. They spent a lot of money and put a lot of people in jail and still had a big drug problem. So they did something different. They decriminalized all drugs. Instead of treating drug use and abuse/addiction like a crime they treated it like a medical condition. Instead of worrying about going to jail addicts could easily get help.

What happened?

10 years later drug abuse in Portugal has dropped by 50%.

Another example could be smoking. In 1965 42.4% of the population in the US smoked. In 2010 only 19.3% of the population were smokers. What changed? Education and information. In 1965 many people had no idea smoking was bad for you. As the amount of information and education grew fewer and fewer people began smoking and many that did smoke quit.

ok. i guess your smarter than the american psychiatric association & the DSM 5. believe whatever you want.

:)

There's nothing in any dsm manual that says junkies have to be locked up to clean up.

Feel free to look though, I'm sure the latest dsm is online.

so you are what...deflecting these comments by hanging onto my junkie lockup comment? yeah, OK, you win, not every junkie needs to be locked up.

but your contention about choice is flat wrong, & you know it. or else you are saying hoffman "chose" to die.

I'm not deflecting anything. You made the comment and my experience proves to me it's not accurate.

And that's exactly what I'm saying- Hoffman chose to die. the heroin didn't stick the syringe in his arm. he did and he pushed the plunger. It's not accurate to say once a junkie, always a junkie. DUDe had $150 million dollar net worth and was surrounded by people who cared about him. He could have cleaned up by any number of means available to him. Robert downie JR did, millions of others clean up, often times in their own domiciles, under a bridge, etc.

hey thats great

Once a junkie always a junkie

Once a drunk always a drunk

Once an addicted always an addict

The difference between someone like Robert Downey JR and Hoffman is that, so far, Downey has figured out how to control the urge, so far. When you are an addict the desire to do the bad thing never fully goes away. You learn to deal with it. You develop tools to put it on the back burner so you can live your life. You may go weeks, months or even years without the urge, then one idle Tuesday you encounter something that sets off one of your triggers and you need to cope with it and make the choice not to use or to seek help to keep you from doing whatever the addiction is.

Downey's recovery wasn't some simple overnight thing. He was in and out of rehab several times before finally getting clean.

Is it a choice to do these things? Sure. Nobody starts drinking or using drugs with the intent to become a hopeless addict that one day overdoses. When Hoffman shot heroin into his arm did he intend to kill himself? Likely not, but only he knows for sure. Kicking addiction is not an easy thing. At its most simple, once you are clean it is making the choice to stay clean, but for many the desire to give into the addiction is so compelling it is hard for them to say no to it. Hoffman is a perfect example of this. He had a ton of money, a great career, a family and what would appear to be a very good life, yet he still couldn't kick this problem. It is a choice, but it is complex one.

I've kicked addiction to prescription pills, it took me 4 years. I'm speaking from personal experience in recovery. And since then I've drank alcohol, smoked weed, snorted blow and snorted and smoked meth and walked away from it all without having to pin the responsibility on the chemical. Addicts use what you are claiming as an excuse all the time. OH, I'm an addict, I'll always be one so pass me the rig.

Most all of us have shit we have to overcome to survive, putting the onus on the shit we cling to takes away the personal responsibility

Self control people! Don't get too excited and od ffs. Too many people around that care.Rip Seymour

Lol @ stickyfingerz... The guy has a VERY public meltdown over a teenage meth addict on this very forum, complaining among other things that he deserved her love because he bought her new teeth.... and wants to debate drug laws.

I would guess then that you are not a true addict.

People get hooked on prescription pills all the time. It is easy to do. Many people also get off of them. I know someone who got hooked on Nyquill then realized what they were doing and stopped doing it.

Someone who has a true addictive personality has a very difficult time controlling their use of whatever their drug of choice is. More than that they tend to focus that addiction in one way or another. A friend of mine was on some pretty hard drugs for several years. He tried a few times and eventually he got clean by focusing his energy on working out. Of course he couldn't just go to the gym for 30 minutes a day, he quickly became addicted to it and would go 3 hours a day. Now he works in the fitness industry so it all worked out for him. He has told me that he fears if he ever stopped working out he would focus that addictive personality towards something else and it could be be bad.

I'm not taking the personal responsibility away from it. I am simply saying for many addicts is a far more complex situation than just one day saying they are no longer going to do whatever the bad thing is. Theirs is a problem of regulation. They can't just have one drink or smoke one joint or do a little coke at a party. If they have one drink they will end up having 10 because the desire to do that overshadows everything else.

Like I said. It is a choice. Once a person is clean they can choose to give themselves the tools to deal with the urges when they come. When they fall off the wagon it isn't an excuse that they make up just because they wanted to get high, it is because they were weak and they let the desire to do this thing overcome them. They made a bad choice.

i'm happy you have discovered omniscience & that your life experience entitles you to speak for every addict in the human race.

the fact that you think a oscar winning millionaire actor "chose" to die demonstrates your ignorance/unwillingness to put yourself in anyone elses shoes. as long as you are so strong, everyone else is wrong. dumb dumb dumb dumb.

& you should stop conflating responsibility with choice. addicts are responsible for their actions & the consequences. But their power to choose is dramatically broken, to the point of choosing to use over every other healthier alternative.

addictive personality is a theory. One I don't subscribe to whatsoever.

Fair enough.

lolz, yup I have a hard time putting myself in the shoes of someone worth $150 million dollars that has enough talent to win an oscar and has legions of fans yets chooses to inject lethal quantities of hard drugs. No sympathy or empathy at all from me for hard dopers.

They choose their path to clean up or not.

he's not an addict. He's a fucking moron who thinks he knows it all. he can find out he is flat wrong, but he never will make the effort to walk into a prison or a rehab & talk to a heroin junkie & tell them in their face they coulda chose. he knows he would get his ass beat.

I believe it.

My youngest brother is an addictive personality.

He's an alcoholic, addicted to prescription pills, cigarettes, you name it. If he tries it he will get addicted to it.

It's the reason that 99.99% of the people can get wasted on alcohol, cocaine, pot, etc. on the weekend and then not touch it again until the next time they decide to go out and party.

But a tiny percentage of people get hooked on it. Those are the ones with addictive personalities

Don't think that there aren't people out there who are like that. There are. Every alcoholic in the world. Every person hooked on prescription drugs. Every person who every got addicted to heroin.

They aren't a big percentage of people. But they do get all the publicity and ruin a good party for the rest of us. lol

By the way, congrats to you on kicking your addictions. I played in bands most of my life and saw quite a few of my buddies die from alcoholism (livers went bad). And I had to fire a lot of guys in my band for getting hooked on stupid shit like crack and meth that pretty much rendered them useless on the road.

I've never had that kind of addictive personality about anything. I've never tried heroin...so I can't speak on that. lol
But I drank my first beer when I was 12, smoked my first joint the same year. Did my first line when I was 19. First hit of acid at 20.

Never had a problem with any of them. Can take it or leave it. I still won't have a drink at my own home or anywhere that isn't a party or a bar or some other social activity.

I might drink 3 or 4 times a month. And I can't remember the last time I drank to excess.
If I do any recreational type party favors, it might be once every couple of months or so. And then ONLY on a weekend night when I have a hotel room and decide to burn off some steam.

But some people aren't like that at all.

They can't stop after a few drinks. They have to drink until they pass out.
They can't stop after a couple of lines....they have to do it all and then find more.
They can't just take a pain pill when they are experiencing excruciating pain and then not take any more...they have to do them all and then go "doctor shopping" to get several prescriptions from different doctors.

But you are 100% right in my opinion about it being a personal decision.

I've never understood all these busybodies who think THEY know what's best for YOU.
Fuck them! lol

hahah, so you resort to making it personal and calling me names for clearly stating my views.

I've spent more time with convicts and felons in a weekend than I care to admit. I mentioned earlier I went through rehab, including a roomie who was a junkie cutter. I lived in a halfway house with peeps who used meth so bad they only had roots for teeth. FTR, I've sponsored more than 10 recovering junkies in sobriety, And that's 10 out of 50+ men I sponsored in recovery. And I told each and every one of them that recovery is their choice. Just like using.

Addiction fucking sucks.

Anybody ever see the film "Love Liza" -- it was from a while back.

Hoffman played a guy whose wife killed herself.

He couldn't bring himself to read the suicide note and the whole movie was basically him stumbling around, sniffing airplane glue and gasoline fumes. As I remember it, he takes up RC boat racing as an excuse to buy model boat fuel that he can huff with a rag.

Good movie and -- now -- really gives me the creeps on a different level.

I'm not against it per se. If there was conclusive research that proved it undeniably, I would certainly embrace that. As it stands, there are 2 big problems with it- 1, it's a label and labeling people doesn't help matters. 2, it's an easy excuse that addicts can cling to in order to justify their personal decisions to keep using.

Sorry she didn't do meth actually, or any hard drugs at all, but thanks. Those that have to bring up personal details during a drug reform debate are just utter douche bags. lol Thank you for reminding everyone just how pathetic you are. :thumbsup

Sad news, great talented. RIP.

He was a great actor.

I love 99% of your posts, but sometimes you talk shit :thumbsup

It's far more complex than that, and you know it :)

:thumbsup :thumbsup

brushing it aside so carte blanche as just being a choice is what keeps many addicts from seeking help waaaaaaaaay earlier - this mass-thinking that it's purely a matter of choice/willpower.

Once you have someone IN recovery, then yeah, like you did with your sponsees, you can lay out the choice thing, because without the substance being in their system 24/7, the head clears, and that ability of choice returns over a period of time (however long that might be for each individual).

I can only speak about alcohol, but who the fuck thinks, at age 15 "I better not touch this stuff, there's a 10% chance I'll become an alcoholic in later life, even though my perception of an alcoholic is a homeless bum" - well, pretty much no-one, and why the fuck would they lol. By the time the addiction is full blown, any 'choice' in it has long gone, and your mind is detached from reality anyway (as I think you've said before, you create your own reality anyway, according to your own perceptions).

So a blase 'it's purely choice' and 'he had 150m in the bank' is a cop-out to save the hard work of understanding/discussing/fill-in-the-blank the extremely complex workings of the mind. When let's face it, no-one is even close to understanding a fraction of how their own mind operates, let alone claim that some shitty soundbite can explain the way someone else's mind works.

It's just too fucking sad to see such a talented man pass away this way. RIP PSH.

PSH was a great talent. Maybe one of the best actors I have ever seen. 46 years old- fuck

I'm a douchebag because you are such an out of control idiot that you were on this very forum fighting with a middle aged, self proclaimed "Fat fucking nobody" that stole your teenage junkie girlfriend?... and you brought it all to the forum and had a massive meltdown? I'm pretty sure it was meth as I remember the issue about you buying her new teeth and seemed to think that made you entitled to her love and affection. That was perhaps the most amusing meltdown of all time, on this forum.

Personal details? You did it right here in public, dipshit.

They are doing research in this field, it's no conclusive but at least it's a start

http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-we...study-suggests

Perhaps it just boils down to willpower/determination, I don't think the subject is as black and white as your POV but I do agree that too many people want an excuse or something to blame for their problems.

RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman, he was an excellent actor

I've seen too many addicts voluntarily get themselves into recovery and/or rehab to agree with you. Their minds were distorted on wtfever dope or alcohol yet they decided to seek help. And also, I've seen plenty of addicts choose to go back out there after they've cleaned out.

When will human beings learn, drugs are bad? They will kill your ass.

Portugal's case proved otherwise.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...f-in-portugal/

But to get back on track and add to the original topic, sad news indeed, PSH was a talented actor.

Thanks for posting that, it certainly appears they could be on to something.

Also, when I state psh had a choice and he chose heroin, That's not the same as saying he needed more willpower. Choice does not = willpower in all situations.

actually its quite a gigantic difference and here's your example. How many casual drinkers do you know? now how many casual heroin users? Even if you know a few they don't ever stay that way believe me...

He's from my hometown, this came close to dominating yesterday's news coverage.

It was the the lead story on the late night, non Super Bowl station's newscast.

yeah agreed mate, but I'm saying you can't just blanket statement. I do it all the fucking time though so I'm a fine one to talk lol :1orglaugh

It's about that rock bottom imo, and the 'gift of desperation'. From my personal experience, and what I've heard, you always cling onto being able to control it, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Only when you are in that state of true desperation, on the edge of the precipice so to speak, comes that 'choice' to seek help - again with that word 'choice' not being quite the true sense of it being complete free will.

Again, given that each of us is unique, and no 2 people are exactly alike, my annoyance, for lack of a better way of putting it, comes out.

It's all good though :thumbsup

I agree that many do use things as excuses (poor me I drank because of blahblah situation, poor me I took heroin because of my mixed up childhood, etc etc), but there's a distinction between an excuse and a reason.

As someone said already, the thing is to take responsibility, which is a huge move forward imo - this doesn't mean that valid reasons can be just brushed aside as merely excuses.

As you've stated, it isn't black & white - nothing concerning human brains ever is :upsidedow

I enjoy a good debate that maintains a modicum of respect, so no worries.

And yes, rock-bottom, I agree. Which is probably the biggest factor in why psh died. Hard to see yourself at rock-bottom when you are considered one of the best actors of your generation and receive all the laurels that go with that.

But again, choice is the crucial factor here. FOr me and from what I've experienced,

choice precedes wilpower.

Willpower is derived from personal choice.

Whether it's willpower to inject yourself with hardcore drugs, or willpower to seek help. But the willpower to shoot up, for instance, comes after making the choice to do the drug.

Could you fire intravenous drugs into yourself? I couldn't. And I'm an insulin junkie! I have to inject myself many times each and every day. But insulin injections are sub-cutaneous, not intravenous, big difference.

hey thats great

or maybe they're just fuck ups who make bad decisions.

And that all fucking pertains to this how? Since A. She wasn't a junky, and B. It fucking has nothing to do with this and shows you for the rotted piece of twat you are.

Btw can you prove she was on meth or a junky? Pretty sure that is a bannable offense. She had bad enamel on her teeth actually and it had nothing to do with drugs in any regard. I didn't fix her teeth either. Would you like to continue talking?

So apparently you actually have no clue at all.

That's a good point....some things are more easily addictive to a greater number of people.

There actually ARE casual heroin users out there. Not many, but there are.

Nicotine is another one that is one of the MOST addictive drugs ever. Smoking cigarettes is the hardest addiction for people to quit. And that one leads you to the most horrible death you can have.

Alcohol...probably the second worst. For most people it's no big deal. But a lot of folks have a genetic physiological propensity to become alcoholics. I've seen so many of them in my life.

But in the end...it shouldn't be up to other people to COMMAND another adult person in a "free" society as to what they can and can't do with their lives.

At one point Heroin was 100% legal. It was invented by the Bayer company and sold over the counter at drug stores (no prescription).

I was listening to an interview with Al Lewis (Grandpa Munster from the old Munsters show) back when he was still alive. He was running for Mayor of some town and was a Libertarian.

He talked about how when he was a kid he used to go down to the drugstore for his grandmother and buy heroin for her when he was 8 years old.

His grandma wasn't an addict by the way. Nor where the majority of people who used it.
But doctors started seeing that it was becoming habit forming and the next thing you know...the U.S. Govt. stepped in (in all of it's wisdom) and made it ILLEGAL.

What happened next? The percentage of junkies ROSE, and they created an entire new revenue stream for organized crime. :(

as he was getting older his acting skills were better. I liked this guy.
RIP Philip

The most embarrassing thing that could ever happen to a reasonable, well adjusted person would be to have that thread bumped. But you're a sociopath and you're not really capable of understanding when you are being made fun of and when you look stupid to others and you don't understand what it's like to feel embarrassment and shame and you'll never stop lying and trying to manipulate and downplay the facts, if you think you are "winning".
:2 cents:

What a surprise that you don't really post here at all anymore after being laughed out of the business.. but feel the overwhelming need to chime in about drug addiction and drug laws. Hmm..................