Obamacare not getting the young people they need to sign up

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  • Vendzilla
    Biker Gnome
    • Mar 2004
    • 23200
    #1

    Obamacare not getting the young people they need to sign up

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101351858?__s...are%20is%20set

    It has become clear that the penalties intended to incentivize individuals to obtain coverage are too small to motivate participation. This made engaging healthy individuals tantamount to creating a sustainable program.


    Aetna could be forced out of Obamacare

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101354183

    Waiting for the guys that think I must have got this off Fox, LOL, being that both links are from MSNBC
    Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
    think about that
    Tags: None
    • signupdamnit
      Confirmed User
      • Aug 2007
      • 6697
      #2
      The enrollment period isn't over yet. Young invincibles usually will wait until the last minute. Besides what do you expect? The ACA already gave those under 26 free coverage under their parent's plan.

      You don't like my posts? Put me on ignore or fuck right off. I'll say what I want.

        Comment

        • Rochard
          Jägermeister Test Pilot
          • Dec 2001
          • 75733
          #3
          This is the exact problem Obamacare is trying to address - Younger people under the age of thirty who believe they are healthy and do not need healthcare... The big hurdle is trying to explain to a twenty-three year old that they has to pay for medical insurance when he is working two crappy fast food jobs and barely being able to make ends meet.

          Obamacare isn't the end all solution. It's a start that will be changed over the next few years. However, because of people like you Vendzilla, this will take a lot longer than required. Instead of bitching constantly, we need discussion - we need new ideas about what needs to be fixed. Instead of trying to fix the problem. Rebublicans are making it worse by fighting it.

          I must admit I am disappointed by Obamacare, the process, and a lot of issues with it. I am still not signed up, and in fact my wife has no lost her healthcare. (Her healthcare wasn't cut because of Obamacare but we decided it was cheaper for us to get our healthcare together outside of her employer, so we dropped her insurance... But haven't been able to sign up yet).

          There are problems. We need to fix them, not bitch like little children.
          Herschel Savage
          Brooklyn, NY

            Comment

            • pornguy
              Too lazy to set a custom title
              • Mar 2003
              • 62912
              #4
              Originally posted by Rochard
              This is the exact problem Obamacare is trying to address - Younger people under the age of thirty who believe they are healthy and do not need healthcare... The big hurdle is trying to explain to a twenty-three year old that they has to pay for medical insurance when he is working two crappy fast food jobs and barely being able to make ends meet.

              Obamacare isn't the end all solution. It's a start that will be changed over the next few years. However, because of people like you Vendzilla, this will take a lot longer than required. Instead of bitching constantly, we need discussion - we need new ideas about what needs to be fixed. Instead of trying to fix the problem. Rebublicans are making it worse by fighting it.

              I must admit I am disappointed by Obamacare, the process, and a lot of issues with it. I am still not signed up, and in fact my wife has no lost her healthcare. (Her healthcare wasn't cut because of Obamacare but we decided it was cheaper for us to get our healthcare together outside of her employer, so we dropped her insurance... But haven't been able to sign up yet).

              There are problems. We need to fix them, not bitch like little children.
              I would have to say that the first thing that needs to be changed is the part about it being Mandatory.

              I dont want it, dont need and dont even live in the US the majority of the year yet sadly I will end up having the pay the penalty for the time being and Im certain I will never get that back.
              PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic

              AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online!
              TChicks.com | Angeles Cid | Mariana Cordoba | MAILERS WELCOME!

                Comment

                • bigluv
                  Confirmed User
                  • Jul 2008
                  • 850
                  #5
                  Originally posted by Rochard
                  This is the exact problem Obamacare is trying to address - Younger people under the age of thirty who believe they are healthy and do not need healthcare... The big hurdle is trying to explain to a twenty-three year old that they has to pay for medical insurance when he is working two crappy fast food jobs and barely being able to make ends meet.

                  Obamacare isn't the end all solution. It's a start that will be changed over the next few years. However, because of people like you Vendzilla, this will take a lot longer than required. Instead of bitching constantly, we need discussion - we need new ideas about what needs to be fixed. Instead of trying to fix the problem. Rebublicans are making it worse by fighting it.

                  I must admit I am disappointed by Obamacare, the process, and a lot of issues with it. I am still not signed up, and in fact my wife has no lost her healthcare. (Her healthcare wasn't cut because of Obamacare but we decided it was cheaper for us to get our healthcare together outside of her employer, so we dropped her insurance... But haven't been able to sign up yet).

                  There are problems. We need to fix them, not bitch like little children.
                  I never experienced any problems.

                  It must be your own fault and only happen to people that bring it on themselves.

                  Sound familiar?

                    Comment

                    • Marcus Aurelius
                      No Refunds Issued.
                      • Apr 2003
                      • 14809
                      #6
                      Originally posted by Vendzilla
                      http://www.cnbc.com/id/101351858?__s...are%20is%20set

                      It has become clear that the penalties intended to incentivize individuals to obtain coverage are too small to motivate participation. This made engaging healthy individuals tantamount to creating a sustainable program.


                      Aetna could be forced out of Obamacare

                      http://www.cnbc.com/id/101354183

                      Waiting for the guys that think I must have got this off Fox, LOL, being that both links are from MSNBC

                        Comment

                        • dyna mo
                          just a fucking jerk
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 68184
                          #7
                          Originally posted by Rochard
                          This is the exact problem Obamacare is trying to address - Younger people under the age of thirty who believe they are healthy and do not need healthcare... The big hurdle is trying to explain to a twenty-three year old that they has to pay for medical insurance when he is working two crappy fast food jobs and barely being able to make ends meet.

                          Obamacare isn't the end all solution. It's a start that will be changed over the next few years. However, because of people like you Vendzilla, this will take a lot longer than required. Instead of bitching constantly, we need discussion - we need new ideas about what needs to be fixed. Instead of trying to fix the problem. Rebublicans are making it worse by fighting it.

                          I must admit I am disappointed by Obamacare, the process, and a lot of issues with it. I am still not signed up, and in fact my wife has no lost her healthcare. (Her healthcare wasn't cut because of Obamacare but we decided it was cheaper for us to get our healthcare together outside of her employer, so we dropped her insurance... But haven't been able to sign up yet).

                          There are problems. We need to fix them, not bitch like little children.
                          Why would you need obamacare? Are you being subsidized? If not, you can go to ehealth.com and have medical insurance in <20 minutes.

                            Comment

                            • Vendzilla
                              Biker Gnome
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 23200
                              #8
                              I'm all for healthcare insurance that makes sense, this doesn't, but then again, they never read it
                              Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                              think about that

                                Comment

                                • MK Ultra
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Jun 2007
                                  • 879
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by pornguy
                                  I would have to say that the first thing that needs to be changed is the part about it being Mandatory.
                                  Exactly

                                  But it seems the only way the Democrats who passed this partisan abortion could buy the votes of the poor and people with pre-existing conditions is to force everybody else to subsidize their insurance.

                                  I saw on CNN more companies are dumping workers onto the exchanges, I think 2014 is going to be an interesting election year.

                                  Vote them ALL out regardless of party

                                    Comment

                                    • TampaToker
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • May 2006
                                      • 5828
                                      #10
                                      Obama will get his single payer If you got stocks in Aetna time to sell
                                      Icq 247-742-205

                                        Comment

                                        • dyna mo
                                          just a fucking jerk
                                          • Dec 2008
                                          • 68184
                                          #11
                                          fyi guys, insurance has always been subsidized by the healthier in the insurance pools. senoir citizens are the most subsidized historically, their medical costs are 6x more than others but their premiums are not 6x higher.

                                            Comment

                                            • 30SalesPlus
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • May 2006
                                              • 212
                                              #12
                                              Fuck Obamacare its a Bullshit scam to make insurance companies richer.

                                                Comment

                                                • kane
                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                  • Aug 2001
                                                  • 20684
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by pornguy
                                                  I would have to say that the first thing that needs to be changed is the part about it being Mandatory.

                                                  I dont want it, dont need and dont even live in the US the majority of the year yet sadly I will end up having the pay the penalty for the time being and Im certain I will never get that back.
                                                  Here is why the mandatory will not be cut.

                                                  The entire system relies on it. Since insurance carriers are now not able to turn people down who have pre-existing conditions. and they can't put life long caps and cut people who use their insurance, their profits will fall. They need the influx of healthy people who are paying, but not using to cover those.

                                                  It is just like social security. Those who are in their 20's are paying for those who are retired. In theory, when those 20 somethings retire the new 20 somethings will be paying for them.

                                                  If you don't force people to buy then what will happen is people who are healthy won't buy it until they fall off their bike and break their leg. Then the hospital will sign them up as they check in and they will keep the insurance long enough to cover the expenses of their broken leg then drop it again.

                                                  I don't feel great about the mandatory, but at its core it is forcing people to be responsible for themselves.

                                                  Now, all that said, I think Obamacare is doomed to fail as it is now structured. The penalties for not signing up are not stiff enough to get some people to sign up. There are many republican controlled states that are not expanding their medicaid programs or taking the money from the feds to pay for medicaid expansion so the poor in those states are still not getting help and it does absolutely nothing to help curb the ever rising cost of healthcare. As the prices continue to go up eventually we will hit a breaking point. The problem is, like Rochard said, our leaders aren't interested in fixing the coming problem they are more interested in getting what they want and proving their point.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Joshua G
                                                      dumb libs love censorship
                                                      • Jul 2008
                                                      • 8198
                                                      #14
                                                      forget it...why do i waste my time in these threads...
                                                      Last edited by Joshua G; 01-23-2014, 12:22 PM.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Sly
                                                          Let's do some business!
                                                          • Sep 2004
                                                          • 31376
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by bigluv
                                                          I never experienced any problems.

                                                          It must be your own fault and only happen to people that bring it on themselves.

                                                          Sound familiar?
                                                          Okay, that made me laugh!
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                                                            Comment

                                                            • 2MuchMark
                                                              Mark of 2Much.net
                                                              • Aug 2004
                                                              • 50969
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                              http://www.cnbc.com/id/101351858?__s...are%20is%20set

                                                              It has become clear that the penalties intended to incentivize individuals to obtain coverage are too small to motivate participation. This made engaging healthy individuals tantamount to creating a sustainable program.


                                                              Aetna could be forced out of Obamacare

                                                              http://www.cnbc.com/id/101354183

                                                              Waiting for the guys that think I must have got this off Fox, LOL, being that both links are from MSNBC
                                                              Give up already.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • MK Ultra
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Jun 2007
                                                                  • 879
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                  fyi guys, insurance has always been subsidized by the healthier in the insurance pools. senoir citizens are the most subsidized historically, their medical costs are 6x more than others but their premiums are not 6x higher.
                                                                  And that's fine, that's how insurance is supposed to work.

                                                                  But when the Federal government takes the power unto itself to compel you to participate and decides how much you can afford to pay is when I have a problem with it.

                                                                  What's next? I'm a little overweight so is mandatory health club membership with attendance quotas in my future?

                                                                  Laugh now but when the ACA was being discussed I thought a Federal law that forced me to buy something I didn't want could never happen in the USA.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • dyna mo
                                                                      just a fucking jerk
                                                                      • Dec 2008
                                                                      • 68184
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by MK Ultra
                                                                      And that's fine, that's how insurance is supposed to work.

                                                                      But when the Federal government takes the power unto itself to compel you to participate and decides how much you can afford to pay is when I have a problem with it.

                                                                      What's next? I'm a little overweight so is mandatory health club membership with attendance quotas in my future?

                                                                      Laugh now but when the ACA was being discussed I thought a Federal law that forced me to buy something I didn't want could never happen in the USA.

                                                                      I hear what you are saying. I'm not sure it's entirely accurate re: those with pre-existing conditions who have simply been denied access to the healthcare system, regardless of being able to afford the insurance.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • kane
                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                          • Aug 2001
                                                                          • 20684
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by MK Ultra
                                                                          And that's fine, that's how insurance is supposed to work.

                                                                          But when the Federal government takes the power unto itself to compel you to participate and decides how much you can afford to pay is when I have a problem with it.

                                                                          What's next? I'm a little overweight so is mandatory health club membership with attendance quotas in my future?

                                                                          Laugh now but when the ACA was being discussed I thought a Federal law that forced me to buy something I didn't want could never happen in the USA.
                                                                          Allow me to play devil's advocate.

                                                                          Say you decide you don't want to pay for health insurance. Maybe you have on illnesses and you are a healthy person so you will rarely, if ever us it. In the event that something does happen, like you get hurt or very sick, are you financially in a position to pay cash for whatever healthcare you may need?

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • L-Pink
                                                                              working on my tan
                                                                              • Mar 2005
                                                                              • 39151
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                              I hear what you are saying. I'm not sure it's entirely accurate re: those with pre-existing conditions who have simply been denied access to the healthcare system, regardless of being able to afford the insurance.
                                                                              So you address THAT problem. Why fuck up everyone else's insurance to accommodate a relatively small percentage?

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Barry-xlovecam
                                                                                  It's 42
                                                                                  • Jun 2010
                                                                                  • 18083
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  THE SKY IS FALLING __ NO!

                                                                                  I have read quite a few reports of actuarial projections that are saying that the premiums might go up a whole 2% if more younger people do not become part of the insurance pools.

                                                                                  Young people have babies and children that need paediatrician care. Young people are prone to accidental and sports injuries. Just turn the uninsured away at e-rooms for a while and let them die -- they will start to find the money.

                                                                                  Hate to say it, as it is maybe a bit inhumane, but that would be a real penalty ...

                                                                                  If you are really low income there are subsidies up to 100% (Medicaid eligibility) so it is just a red herring argument.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • dyna mo
                                                                                      just a fucking jerk
                                                                                      • Dec 2008
                                                                                      • 68184
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                                                      So you address THAT problem. Why fuck up everyone else's insurance to accommodate a relatively small percentage?
                                                                                      umm, I have addressed THAT problem. For the last fucking 35 years in fact.

                                                                                      FYI, I'm legally obligated to buy insurance now, just like everybody else.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • L-Pink
                                                                                          working on my tan
                                                                                          • Mar 2005
                                                                                          • 39151
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                          umm, I have addressed THAT problem. For the last fucking 35 years in fact.

                                                                                          FYI, I'm legally obligated to buy insurance now, just like everybody else.

                                                                                          No, no, the government needed to address THAT problem of pre-existing conditions being denied.

                                                                                          And I'm sure it could have been done without re-insuring every person in the country.


                                                                                          .
                                                                                          Last edited by L-Pink; 01-23-2014, 01:23 PM.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • dyna mo
                                                                                              just a fucking jerk
                                                                                              • Dec 2008
                                                                                              • 68184
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                                                              No, no, the government needed to address the problem of pre-existing conditions.

                                                                                              And I'm sure it could have been done without re-insuring every person in the country.
                                                                                              oh. Yes, of course.

                                                                                              One law would do it: it's against the law to deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions. problem solved.

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Vendzilla
                                                                                                  Biker Gnome
                                                                                                  • Mar 2004
                                                                                                  • 23200
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by MarkPrince
                                                                                                  Give up already.
                                                                                                  Only gave up on you being able to support this anymore
                                                                                                  Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                                  think about that

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • L-Pink
                                                                                                      working on my tan
                                                                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                                                                      • 39151
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                      oh. Yes, of course.

                                                                                                      One law would do it: it's against the law to deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions. problem solved.
                                                                                                      Oh come on, now you're just being argumentative.

                                                                                                      Finding a solution to the insurance companies "pre-existing" excuse would have to be easier that starting an entire national healthcare program from scratch and pissing off the large amount of people already insured.

                                                                                                      Hey, I also can now get insurance, pre-existing conditions as well. But I personally know a dozen that lost company insurance and are now on their own.

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • dyna mo
                                                                                                          just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                          • Dec 2008
                                                                                                          • 68184
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                                                                          Oh come on, now you're just being argumentative.

                                                                                                          Finding a solution to the insurance companies "pre-existing" excuse would have to be easier that starting an entire national healthcare program from scratch and pissing off the large amount of people already insured.

                                                                                                          Hey, I also can now get insurance, pre-existing conditions as well. But I personally know a dozen that lost company insurance and are now on their own.
                                                                                                          It seems we are misunderstanding each other. I was referring to pre-obamacare. It was perfectly legal for insurers to deny coverage due to pre-existing conds. A rule stating they could no longer do that would have been much more simple than restructuring the entire system in order to do that.

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • Minte
                                                                                                              Babemeister
                                                                                                              • Jun 2001
                                                                                                              • 7081
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              We're still seeing the same trend. HR has been putting out all the required information to the employees and no one seems to care. Not a single new applicant to our group health policy. Now, I am not complaining..because for the company this is a good thing.
                                                                                                              We meet the standard for the policy we must provide yet most of the people aren't going to take it.
                                                                                                              You might not be as anonymous as you think you are.

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • kane
                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                  • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                  • 20684
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                  oh. Yes, of course.

                                                                                                                  One law would do it: it's against the law to deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions. problem solved.
                                                                                                                  As someone with a pre-existing condition (I have asthma) I can tell you that it likely wouldn't have been that simple. Insurance companies denied me coverage because I would cost them money. It was that simple. To combat that they would either flat out deny me or they would approve me, but the rates would be so high that it wasn't worth paying them.

                                                                                                                  So the government could force these companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions, but unless they put some kind of pricing structure in place there is nothing keeping the insurance companies from just cranking the rates up so high nobody with pre-existing conditions can afford it.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • MK Ultra
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Jun 2007
                                                                                                                      • 879
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                      I hear what you are saying. I'm not sure it's entirely accurate re: those with pre-existing conditions who have simply been denied access to the healthcare system, regardless of being able to afford the insurance.
                                                                                                                      I agree that something needed to be done, but I disagree with what was done.
                                                                                                                      Some states had already started high-risk pools for people that had problems getting insurance, that could have been expanded with some Federal assistance without turning the entire system on it's head, it would have been a good place to start.

                                                                                                                      Originally posted by kane
                                                                                                                      Allow me to play devil's advocate.

                                                                                                                      Say you decide you don't want to pay for health insurance. Maybe you have on illnesses and you are a healthy person so you will rarely, if ever us it. In the event that something does happen, like you get hurt or very sick, are you financially in a position to pay cash for whatever healthcare you may need?
                                                                                                                      Let me ask you this, are putting some money aside for retirement?
                                                                                                                      I don't make a lot but I put some away for the future every month because someday I'm going to be too old to work.

                                                                                                                      If I buy the stupidly overpriced mandated insurance then my monthly retirement savings will have to stop or at the very least be sharply reduced, I just don't make enough money to cover both every month.

                                                                                                                      So let's say I have a 1 in 100 chance of getting cancer or something else catastrophic, I have a 99 in 100 chance of getting old and having to stop work someday, which makes more sense financially? Rolling the dice as far as getting sick or betting on the near certainty that I'm going to get old?

                                                                                                                      Life has always been a crapshoot, that was what catastrophic insurance was for, but now you can no longer get that kind of coverage. I'm a middle-aged unmarried man who under the aca now has to carry maternity coverage

                                                                                                                      If I get sick I guess I pay for it like my parents and grandparents did, since I can no longer get the catastrophic coverage that was designed for situations like that. I already cover all my heathcare cost out of my pocket for my diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol and have those all pretty well under control. But under the aca I will still cover all those costs PLUS pay an additional $7800 per year for insurance with a $5000 deductible that will most likely never be met. How can that make sense to anybody?

                                                                                                                      Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                                                                                      So you address THAT problem. Why fuck up everyone else's insurance to accommodate a relatively small percentage?


                                                                                                                      I honestly believe that it's insurance itself that has been one the causes of the huge increases in healthcare costs, people no longer have to worry about how expensive a procedure or a device is they just say "do it" Nobody in the business of supplying healthcare hardware or services is going to even try to keep costs down or offer any kind of bargain for their products or services in that kind of situation, they are going to charge as much as they possibly can since the end-used isn't responsible for paying for it, and the insurer who is paying for it can just raise everybody's premiums a little to keep their profits up.

                                                                                                                      I worked for a time in an injection molding plant where they made a few parts for medical devices, you would not believe how much money they made off of those parts simply because the were "medical" items even though the manufacturing methods were identical to the methods used to make window thermometers and windshield wiper parts.

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • dyna mo
                                                                                                                          just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                          • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                          • 68184
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by kane
                                                                                                                          As someone with a pre-existing condition (I have asthma) I can tell you that it likely wouldn't have been that simple. Insurance companies denied me coverage because I would cost them money. It was that simple. To combat that they would either flat out deny me or they would approve me, but the rates would be so high that it wasn't worth paying them.

                                                                                                                          So the government could force these companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions, but unless they put some kind of pricing structure in place there is nothing keeping the insurance companies from just cranking the rates up so high nobody with pre-existing conditions can afford it.
                                                                                                                          You're distorting what I wrote and there has always been a price structure to insurance premiums, just as I pointed out earlier that senior citizens healthcare costs are 6x greater, their premiums don't reflect that whatsoever.

                                                                                                                          being insulin dependent for ~35 years, and all of the medical issues that brings, I would prolly have saved over that time if I had coverage. My monthly nut for med expenses would make most people nauseous. Hell, test strips are almost $1 each, I test my blood sometimes 10x a day. + syringes, + insulin (I use 3 different types of insulin a day, 1 of them is $275 a vial, I go through 2+ vials of that a month). Then there's the doctors and the required lab work they need/demand.

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • kane
                                                                                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                              • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                              • 20684
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Originally posted by MK Ultra
                                                                                                                              I agree that something needed to be done, but I disagree with what was done.
                                                                                                                              Some states had already started high-risk pools for people that had problems getting insurance, that could have been expanded with some Federal assistance without turning the entire system on it's head, it would have been a good place to start.



                                                                                                                              Let me ask you this, are putting some money aside for retirement?
                                                                                                                              I don't make a lot but I put some away for the future every month because someday I'm going to be too old to work.

                                                                                                                              If I buy the stupidly overpriced mandated insurance then my monthly retirement savings will have to stop or at the very least be sharply reduced, I just don't make enough money to cover both every month.

                                                                                                                              So let's say I have a 1 in 100 chance of getting cancer or something else catastrophic, I have a 99 in 100 chance of getting old and having to stop work someday, which makes more sense financially? Rolling the dice as far as getting sick or betting on the near certainty that I'm going to get old?

                                                                                                                              Life has always been a crapshoot, that was what catastrophic insurance was for, but now you can no longer get that kind of coverage. I'm a middle-aged unmarried man who under the aca now has to carry maternity coverage

                                                                                                                              If I get sick I guess I pay for it like my parents and grandparents did, since I can no longer get the catastrophic coverage that was designed for situations like that. I already cover all my heathcare cost out of my pocket for my diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol and have those all pretty well under control. But under the aca I will still cover all those costs PLUS pay an additional $7800 per year for insurance with a $5000 deductible that will most likely never be met. How can that make sense to anybody?




                                                                                                                              I honestly believe that it's insurance itself that has been one the causes of the huge increases in healthcare costs, people no longer have to worry about how expensive a procedure or a device is they just say "do it" Nobody in the business of supplying healthcare hardware or services is going to even try to keep costs down or offer any kind of bargain for their products or services in that kind of situation, they are going to charge as much as they possibly can since the end-used isn't responsible for paying for it, and the insurer who is paying for it can just raise everybody's premiums a little to keep their profits up.

                                                                                                                              I worked for a time in an injection molding plant where they made a few parts for medical devices, you would not believe how much money they made off of those parts simply because the were "medical" items even though the manufacturing methods were identical to the methods used to make window thermometers and windshield wiper parts.
                                                                                                                              I'm not endorsing Obamacare. As I stated above I think it is doomed to fail because it does nothing to help keep the costs of healthcare down. If you are unlucky enough to break your leg or get very sick it may very well bankrupt you. A person shouldn't have to gamble on their present in order to save for their future.

                                                                                                                              One of the major problems I have with Obamacare is that you can't have just catastrophic covered after a certain age.

                                                                                                                              The real shame, to me, is that healthcare is so expensive that the average person may have to choose between saving for retirement and just hoping nothing happens on their way there or buying health insurance, but not having money saved for retirement.

                                                                                                                              I guess the point I was trying to make with my previous post is that the idea of Obamacare is to get make it so everyone has coverage. So that if you do get sick or hurt you don't end up bankrupt and passing the cost on to other people. Sadly, the system seems to have a big hole in it. If you make very little you get free health insurance (so long as you live in the right state) and if you make a lot you can afford to buy it no problem. If you are in the middle you may miss the subsides and not have any real, affordable options.

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • kane
                                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                  • 20684
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                                  You're distorting what I wrote and there has always been a price structure to insurance premiums, just as I pointed out earlier that senior citizens healthcare costs are 6x greater, their premiums don't reflect that whatsoever.

                                                                                                                                  being insulin dependent for ~35 years, and all of the medical issues that brings, I would prolly have saved over that time if I had coverage. My monthly nut for med expenses would make most people nauseous. Hell, test strips are almost $1 each, I test my blood sometimes 10x a day. + syringes, + insulin (I use 3 different types of insulin a day, 1 of them is $275 a vial, I go through 2+ vials of that a month). Then there's the doctors and the required lab work they need/demand.
                                                                                                                                  Having asthma I had a few options in the past. I could pay a huge premium that was over $1,000 per month and they could cover everything, or I could get a catastrophic policy that covered major things and pay for my asthma stuff on my own. I chose the later. My meds were about $200 a month if I bought them online (about $600 a month if I bought them from a pharmacy in the US) and I saw the doctor 2-3 times per year at about $250 a pop. It was cheaper to do that than pay the crazy premiums.

                                                                                                                                  Now that isn't happening. My catastrophic policy was canceled because I am too old for it, but I was able to buy regular insurance for about $60 per month more that is actually pretty damn good. In the end Obamacare has worked for me. But I can see where it doesn't for others and it still does nothing to lower the overall cost of healthcare.

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • crockett
                                                                                                                                      in a van by the river
                                                                                                                                      • May 2003
                                                                                                                                      • 76818
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                      I'm all for healthcare insurance that makes sense, this doesn't, but then again, they never read it
                                                                                                                                      No you aren't, Obama could have parted the waters, turned water into wine and created a perfect health care system and you would just find something with it to bitch about. It doesn't matter if Obamacare would have been a perfect roll out and people were shitting rainbows you would still bitch and moan because it was Obama doing it.
                                                                                                                                      Last edited by crockett; 01-23-2014, 04:27 PM.
                                                                                                                                      In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • Robbie
                                                                                                                                          Leaner, Meaner, Faster
                                                                                                                                          • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                          • 20960
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          I don't see how they are ever gonna get the target demographic of "young" people.

                                                                                                                                          Not only do young people not need insurance to go to the doctor (because they are generally healthier than older people)...but the law itself sabotaged the whole thing.

                                                                                                                                          Why would a young person EVER buy insurance when the law itself says that they can stay on Mommy & Daddy's insurance until they are 26 years old?

                                                                                                                                          That had to be the DUMBEST thing ever if your goal is to get millions of young people to enroll in order to pay for older people.
                                                                                                                                          Typical dumbass govt. stupidity.

                                                                                                                                          Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that it isn't going to work the way it was sold to the American People.

                                                                                                                                          "Affordable" Health Care Act?
                                                                                                                                          Yeah...my insurance just jumped to $880 for my family of 3.
                                                                                                                                          Thanks U.S. Govt.!
                                                                                                                                          -Robbie
                                                                                                                                          ClaudiaMarie.Com

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • Minte
                                                                                                                                              Babemeister
                                                                                                                                              • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                              • 7081
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by crockett
                                                                                                                                              No you aren't, Obama could have parted the waters, turned water into wine and created a perfect health care system and you would just find something with it to bitch about. It doesn't matter if Obamacare would have been a perfect roll out and people were shitting rainbows you would still bitch and moan because it was Obama doing it.
                                                                                                                                              We can only speculate..because he didn't role out a perfect system. I bet large that even today he's not sure what he actually did role out. He was absolutely certain that no one would lose their existing policy if they wanted to keep it.. And he was also certain that the costs would not rise.(ours went up14%) and on and on...

                                                                                                                                              Every US citizen should be bitching. Not just the 70% that don't want obamacare.
                                                                                                                                              You might not be as anonymous as you think you are.

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • MK Ultra
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2007
                                                                                                                                                  • 879
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                  You're distorting what I wrote and there has always been a price structure to insurance premiums, just as I pointed out earlier that senior citizens healthcare costs are 6x greater, their premiums don't reflect that whatsoever.

                                                                                                                                                  being insulin dependent for ~35 years, and all of the medical issues that brings, I would prolly have saved over that time if I had coverage. My monthly nut for med expenses would make most people nauseous. Hell, test strips are almost $1 each, I test my blood sometimes 10x a day. + syringes, + insulin (I use 3 different types of insulin a day, 1 of them is $275 a vial, I go through 2+ vials of that a month). Then there's the doctors and the required lab work they need/demand.
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by kane
                                                                                                                                                  Having asthma I had a few options in the past. I could pay a huge premium that was over $1,000 per month and they could cover everything, or I could get a catastrophic policy that covered major things and pay for my asthma stuff on my own. I chose the later. My meds were about $200 a month if I bought them online (about $600 a month if I bought them from a pharmacy in the US) and I saw the doctor 2-3 times per year at about $250 a pop. It was cheaper to do that than pay the crazy premiums.

                                                                                                                                                  Now that isn't happening. My catastrophic policy was canceled because I am too old for it, but I was able to buy regular insurance for about $60 per month more that is actually pretty damn good. In the end Obamacare has worked for me. But I can see where it doesn't for others and it still does nothing to lower the overall cost of healthcare.
                                                                                                                                                  Kane, Dyna Mo you guys have had some bad luck in your lives and I sympathize, but life has never been fair no matter how much the government tries to legislate it so.
                                                                                                                                                  I was a sick child (asthma as well) and was in and out of hospitals for years, my parents didn't have insurance and my father was trying to build his farming business at the time so it was a squeeze at times but they paid all of it, they would never have even considered that it was somebody else's responsibility to help pay for my care.

                                                                                                                                                  I'll never understand how anybody would think it's anybody else's responsibility outside of the family involved, but I guess that's why I've never been a member of the Democratic Party.

                                                                                                                                                  You guys are lucky in one way though... the aca is actually helping you so I can understand how you can be a bit ambivalent about the mandate and the other downsides to the law.

                                                                                                                                                  But look at it from my standpoint.
                                                                                                                                                  Under the aca my healthcare costs have gone from less than $2000 per year paying for my treatments and medications myself, to almost $10,000 per year for a combination of premiums plus still also having to pay for my treatments myself because of the $5000 deductible.

                                                                                                                                                  You guys are 2 of the winners in this, you now have insurance to cover your care, and believe it or not I think that's a good thing.

                                                                                                                                                  I just happen to be one of the ones that's feels he's getting fucked.

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • Ruseful
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      "Obamacare not getting the young people they need to sign up"?

                                                                                                                                                      We are at: http://www.FakeHospital.com

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • crockett
                                                                                                                                                          in a van by the river
                                                                                                                                                          • May 2003
                                                                                                                                                          • 76818
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Minte
                                                                                                                                                          We can only speculate..because he didn't role out a perfect system. I bet large that even today he's not sure what he actually did role out. He was absolutely certain that no one would lose their existing policy if they wanted to keep it.. And he was also certain that the costs would not rise.(ours went up14%) and on and on...

                                                                                                                                                          Every US citizen should be bitching. Not just the 70% that don't want obamacare.
                                                                                                                                                          Well a large part of people with increases have happened due to Republican run states that didn't accept the Medicare expansion, there is an estimated 5 million people that won't get affordable insurance due to that. What happened, was many people don't have a low enough income to get subsidized by Obamacare it's self, but in that case the Medicaid expansion would kick in to help bring the price down for people not over a higher income bracket.

                                                                                                                                                          Obviously the Right decided to not accept the expansion in order to try and make Obamacare fail. In the process they have cost tax payers in their states more money and even cost many the chance to get insurance.

                                                                                                                                                          People can bitch and moan all they want about Obamacare, but at least the left is trying to come up with a solution to bring insurance to everyone. Meanwhile the right just plays party politics and has attempted to do nothing to help sort out the problems. The right is only interested in making things more difficult and their idea of insurance is "don't get sick if you aren't rich".
                                                                                                                                                          Last edited by crockett; 01-23-2014, 05:22 PM.
                                                                                                                                                          In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • Robbie
                                                                                                                                                              Leaner, Meaner, Faster
                                                                                                                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                              • 20960
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              crockett...are you seriously suggesting that the latest Obama failure is somehow the fault of Republicans?

                                                                                                                                                              Good grief!

                                                                                                                                                              Sweet Baby Jesus Obama can do no wrong! It's ALWAYS somebody else's fault. heh-heh
                                                                                                                                                              -Robbie
                                                                                                                                                              ClaudiaMarie.Com

                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                • Minte
                                                                                                                                                                  Babemeister
                                                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                  • 7081
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by crockett
                                                                                                                                                                  Well a large part of people with increases have happened due to Republican run states that didn't accept the Medicare expansion, there is an estimated 5 million people that won't get affordable insurance due to that. What happened, was many people don't have a low enough income to get subsidized by Obamacare it's self, but in that case the Medicaid expansion would kick in to help bring the price down for people not over a higher income bracket.

                                                                                                                                                                  Obviously the Right decided to not accept the expansion in order to try and make Obamacare fail. In the process they have cost tax payers in their states more money and even cost many the chance to get insurance.

                                                                                                                                                                  People can bitch and moan all they want about Obamacare, but at least the left is trying to come up with a solution to bring insurance to everyone. Meanwhile the right just plays party politics and has attempted to do nothing to help sort out the problems. The right is only interested in making things more difficult and their idea of insurance is "don't get sick if you aren't rich".
                                                                                                                                                                  Obamacare was voted in when the right was at a complete minority. They had nothing to do with it. This program is 100% democrat. And that's not a point worth arguing over.

                                                                                                                                                                  I don't understand your position. It's the law, the democrats won. Why do they now need help sorting it out?
                                                                                                                                                                  You might not be as anonymous as you think you are.

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                    • dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                      just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                                                                      • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                                                                      • 68184
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by MK Ultra
                                                                                                                                                                      Kane, Dyna Mo you guys have had some bad luck in your lives and I sympathize, but life has never been fair no matter how much the government tries to legislate it so.
                                                                                                                                                                      I was a sick child (asthma as well) and was in and out of hospitals for years, my parents didn't have insurance and my father was trying to build his farming business at the time so it was a squeeze at times but they paid all of it, they would never have even considered that it was somebody else's responsibility to help pay for my care.

                                                                                                                                                                      I'll never understand how anybody would think it's anybody else's responsibility outside of the family involved, but I guess that's why I've never been a member of the Democratic Party.

                                                                                                                                                                      You guys are lucky in one way though... the aca is actually helping you so I can understand how you can be a bit ambivalent about the mandate and the other downsides to the law.

                                                                                                                                                                      But look at it from my standpoint.
                                                                                                                                                                      Under the aca my healthcare costs have gone from less than $2000 per year paying for my treatments and medications myself, to almost $10,000 per year for a combination of premiums plus still also having to pay for my treatments myself because of the $5000 deductible.

                                                                                                                                                                      You guys are 2 of the winners in this, you now have insurance to cover your care, and believe it or not I think that's a good thing.

                                                                                                                                                                      I just happen to be one of the ones that's feels he's getting fucked.

                                                                                                                                                                      I don't see it as bad luck at all. In fact, I feel very lucky that I'm the sort to assume responsibility for myself and do things such as eat properly and to exercise consistently. I'm healthier and fitter than dudes 1/2 my age, in spite of having a disease, more than 1/2 my age even.

                                                                                                                                                                      Not to mention being able to cover the expenses. That hasn't always been perfect, but I'm the last person that thinks life on this planet should be or even could be fair.

                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                        • kane
                                                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                          • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                                                          • 20684
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by MK Ultra
                                                                                                                                                                          Kane, Dyna Mo you guys have had some bad luck in your lives and I sympathize, but life has never been fair no matter how much the government tries to legislate it so.
                                                                                                                                                                          I was a sick child (asthma as well) and was in and out of hospitals for years, my parents didn't have insurance and my father was trying to build his farming business at the time so it was a squeeze at times but they paid all of it, they would never have even considered that it was somebody else's responsibility to help pay for my care.

                                                                                                                                                                          I'll never understand how anybody would think it's anybody else's responsibility outside of the family involved, but I guess that's why I've never been a member of the Democratic Party.

                                                                                                                                                                          You guys are lucky in one way though... the aca is actually helping you so I can understand how you can be a bit ambivalent about the mandate and the other downsides to the law.

                                                                                                                                                                          But look at it from my standpoint.
                                                                                                                                                                          Under the aca my healthcare costs have gone from less than $2000 per year paying for my treatments and medications myself, to almost $10,000 per year for a combination of premiums plus still also having to pay for my treatments myself because of the $5000 deductible.

                                                                                                                                                                          You guys are 2 of the winners in this, you now have insurance to cover your care, and believe it or not I think that's a good thing.

                                                                                                                                                                          I just happen to be one of the ones that's feels he's getting fucked.
                                                                                                                                                                          It sounds like you are one of those people (and it seems to be a growing number of them) that is right in that bubble of people who make too much to get the free health insurance, too much to get very much in the way of financial assistance in paying the premiums and yet not enough that you can afford to actually buy the insurance. That is one of the major flaws in the system.

                                                                                                                                                                          I got luck. I fit right in that pocket when I am single so I only to buy for myself and I happen to live in a very liberal state so there were a ton of options. I literally had about 50 plans to choose from so the competition helped drive down the prices.

                                                                                                                                                                          If I were married or had a kid or two that I had to add to it, then it might be a different story.

                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                            • Rochard
                                                                                                                                                                              Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                                                                                              • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                                                              • 75733
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                                                              I'm all for healthcare insurance that makes sense, this doesn't, but then again, they never read it
                                                                                                                                                                              This is the perfect example of "lead, follow, or get out of the way". The Republican party has done everything to fight this from becoming a law, and even after it's become a law they are still fighting it. Instead of working to fix it or improve it, the Republicans want to bitch like little school children.
                                                                                                                                                                              Herschel Savage
                                                                                                                                                                              Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                • Minte
                                                                                                                                                                                  Babemeister
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 7081
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                                                                                  This is the perfect example of "lead, follow, or get out of the way". The Republican party has done everything to fight this from becoming a law, and even after it's become a law they are still fighting it. Instead of working to fix it or improve it, the Republicans want to bitch like little school children.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Do you think it might have anything to do with the fact that 56% of the population view obamacare unfavorably? Any chance of that..

                                                                                                                                                                                  In case this is a hard one for you.. 56% is more than half of the people in America.


                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...ealth_care_law
                                                                                                                                                                                  You might not be as anonymous as you think you are.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                    • Evil1
                                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Mar 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 3893
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by MK Ultra
                                                                                                                                                                                      What's next? I'm a little overweight so is mandatory health club membership with attendance quotas in my future?
                                                                                                                                                                                      You really don't think that's in your future? I would be more surprised if it isnt. Government knows whats best for you.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                        • bronco67
                                                                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Dec 2006
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 29032
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          If Obamacare really did collapse, you would be so happy you'd probably jizz all over yourself at the thought of those damn moochers not being able to pay for health insurance.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                            • Rochard
                                                                                                                                                                                              Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                                                                                                              • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 75733
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Minte
                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you think it might have anything to do with the fact that 56% of the population view obamacare unfavorably? Any chance of that..

                                                                                                                                                                                              In case this is a hard one for you.. 56% is more than half of the people in America.


                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...ealth_care_law
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have two college degrees; I can do the math.

                                                                                                                                                                                              What percentage of people have an unfavorable view of Obamacare because the Republican party continues to bash it every opportunity? (Are the death panels in place yet?)

                                                                                                                                                                                              My personal opinion of Obamacare has plummeted in the past few months. It has a lot of flaws, and was very poorly implemented. However, put a lot of blame on the Republican party - Healthcare for everyone should be something everyone in Congress should be able to get behind, but the Republican party fought it every step of the way. Instead of helping to create something they knew was needed AND knew was going to become a law, they put ALL OF THEIR EFFORT into fucking it up.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Congress needs to start doing their jobs instead of trying to beat the other side.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Herschel Savage
                                                                                                                                                                                              Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                • MK Ultra
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2007
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 879
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't see it as bad luck at all. In fact, I feel very lucky that I'm the sort to assume responsibility for myself and do things such as eat properly and to exercise consistently. I'm healthier and fitter than dudes 1/2 my age, in spite of having a disease, more than 1/2 my age even.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Not to mention being able to cover the expenses. That hasn't always been perfect, but I'm the last person that thinks life on this planet should be or even could be fair.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yeah I noticed you never seemed to feel sorry for yourself, I don't know where you find the time for the exercise though, I spend 12 hours a day in front of my keyboard just trying to stay ahead of the bills with a beautiful beach just one block away

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by kane
                                                                                                                                                                                                  It sounds like you are one of those people (and it seems to be a growing number of them) that is right in that bubble of people who make too much to get the free health insurance, too much to get very much in the way of financial assistance in paying the premiums and yet not enough that you can afford to actually buy the insurance. That is one of the major flaws in the system.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I got luck. I fit right in that pocket when I am single so I only to buy for myself and I happen to live in a very liberal state so there were a ton of options. I literally had about 50 plans to choose from so the competition helped drive down the prices.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  If I were married or had a kid or two that I had to add to it, then it might be a different story.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  You are right I make a bit too much to get the handouts but not enough to comfortably afford the premiums.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm unmarried and got my insurance quote from coveredca.com and picked a middle-of-the-road plan, california isn't exactly a red state

                                                                                                                                                                                                  From what I'm keep hearing on the "news" there are going to be more and more people being dropped from their employer's plan and onto the exchanges, if this is true then the number of people in my situation will be growing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Like I said before 2014 may turn out to be an interesting election cycle

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by MK Ultra
                                                                                                                                                                                                  What's next? I'm a little overweight so is mandatory health club membership with attendance quotas in my future?
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Evil1
                                                                                                                                                                                                  You really don't think that's in your future? I would be more surprised if it isnt. Government knows whats best for you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  That's exactly what I'm afraid of
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Two truths about government and power,
                                                                                                                                                                                                  1: government power always grows
                                                                                                                                                                                                  2: that power will always be used

                                                                                                                                                                                                  The federal government has now taken the power to force you to purchase something you may not want, that power will eventually be used again, it's inevitable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Biker Gnome
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 23200
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by bronco67
                                                                                                                                                                                                      If Obamacare really did collapse, you would be so happy you'd probably jizz all over yourself at the thought of those damn moochers not being able to pay for health insurance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      If it left an opening for a law that was actually read by the people that signed it and above all, WORKED! Yes I would be very happy!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                      think about that

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

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