Seems like it will just be the usual emergency room thing that the previous plan offered. That and deportation.

Immigration reform will happen sooner or later if republicans ever want a chance at the white house again, which would then allow illegals to become legal and then get medicaid/obamacare.

Instead of the silver plan I ended up going with a gold plan w/ obamacare for $227 a month. Get to keep my doctors, lots of free copays and deductible down to $1250. Before I was paying $175 for catastrophic

Picked up a dental add on though I am skeptical how useful these are, but that is just in general not an obamacare thing.

It is odd how everyone against obamacare seems to have a bad experience and everything who is open to the idea of the law not so much. Sure I'm all for single payer but I'll take the changes offered here over the previous options.

That's not really what he asked.

Right now illegal aliens cost about a billion a year in the emergency rooms.

Republicans have a chance at the white house as long as they can get someone that will fight for it. Romney, though a really smart guy and he had a good track record, didn't fight enough for it.

Really I think before they can have an effective immigration reform, they need to close the borders, we spend billions spying on people in other countries, yet a racial Islam follower can walk across the border with a dirty nuke on his back. Makes sense right? NOT!

fight for what?

Fight for the presidency, there were several things Romney didn't attack on which he should have been relentless.
Now that Canadian crackhead mayor has a higher approval rating than our president..

The press completely missed the health care story and dismissed Romney's criticisms of ObamaCare even though many later proved to be true.

It's wonderful to see how everyone has managed to change each other's minds and views.

I used to wish for nuclear war - this thread and the other 2 dozen a day that are created just like it, resulting in the exact same one dimensional and biased arguments by the exact same one dimensional and biased people on both sides, might just sway me in the other direction.

Opinions vary, But I learn a lot from these threads, both by listening to what people have to say and searching for the truth of the matter.

I never thought Obamacare was well laid out, guess I was right all this time

It does nothing because you have to be a citizen to get it.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/st...health-care-l/

That is a great deal!

Can I ask how old you are and the area of the country you live in?
Out here in Nevada I can't get anything close to that. And according to the news...people in California are seeing 300% + rate increases.

What a shocker... you "were right all this time".

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

29, so that helps it. But again what I was paying was based on my age too...

No outrage? Aren't these human beings worthy of life?

Immigration reform.

I wonder why they called that the *dream act*

So in the meantime..there are millions of people here that will not even be eligible for healthcare.

Not yet, Illegal aliens have rights in this country, why? Hell I guess because politicians want their vote!
California has already asked that illegal aliens be included in Obamacare
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgr...-to-obamacare/

Yes you are truly the pentacle of open minded give and take. I'm astonished how many times you have changed your mind on a subject because you listened and learned from someone else. Ahh who am I kidding how could you ever need to change your mind as you are always right.....

crockett...that's the way debate goes between two opposing sides.

You are EXACTLY the same way. You think you are right and you never change your mind either.

Instead of attacking each other...how about everybody argue the points instead. Let the IDEAS be what decides who "wins" instead of fighting with each other personally.

Both you and vendzilla obviously want the best outcome for everyone. You just disagree on how to get from Point A to Point B.

Yes, what he thinks seems stupid to you because you THINK you have it all solved. And what you think seems stupid to him because he THINKS he has it all solved.

Get past that, and realize that neither of you have the complete answer.
Right now, your ideology is in the fire because ObamaCare is happening...and it's not exactly going according to plan.

You have to realize it's horribly flawed. And you're gonna take some lumps for that in the arena of ideas.

If it magically turns around and health care costs actually do drop $2,500 per family as the Pres. promised and all is unicorns and rainbows...then you will be able to boast about it.

But neither you nor Vendzilla are responsible for the condition our country is in.

The people responsible are the career/lifetime Democrats and Republicans in Washington D.C.
They fucked it up. Not you, not Vendzilla.

So try to keep that in mind when you vent your frustration and anger.

Why should I argue talking points with a guy that can't even reply with out calling me a derogatory name in every reply? I'm just giving him back exactly what he gives out. If he doesn't like it, then maybe he should change his tune. Until then I just give him what he deserves.

Somebody has to be the better man first...

Errr I am pretty sure Obama and democrats have tried to pass this, not stand in the way. It seems you are trying to fault obamacare to not do everything possible and right all wrongs. Just seems like you are stretching awfully far....

All the gfy republicans seem to keep coming out and criticizing obamacare because of its relationship to insurance companies. But the current GOP stance while it involves some changes it is still the status quo of private for profit insurance companies running the show. Liberals simply view obamacare as a stepping stone towards a single payer system. So great, Obamacare isn't the cure all for everything (even though it's brand fucking new and who knows how it will pan out), but it is change and it's just a step towards single payer.

Outrage about costs and insurance companies dropping out of exchanges just helps speed this process up.

Just remember if Hilary runs healthcare was her thing when Clinton was in office and the GOP's response to it was the mandate that conservatives hate so much (lol) and the private insurance etc. that was the basis of obamacare. So if this happens, well, start shorting health insurance companies or something ;)

I'm thinking that back during the campaign of 2012 that Romney made some very good suggestions: Allowing people to buy insurance across state lines (more competition to lower prices) and to take on Tort Reform to try and lower the malpractice insurance rates that doctors pay (and also allow them to stop ordering unnecessary & expensive tests to cover their asses for the insurance companies).

In my opinion that is two things that should have been on Pres. Obama's short list right off the bat. But of course lobbyist's for the insurance companies are making sure that didn't happen.

I never understood why it's by state in the first place. Tort reform I don't know much about so I can't really comment on that.

But always I say the first thing that needs to be done is reserve citizens united and work on getting the money and lobbyist out of politics. Really the only way I see this shit happening the billionaires that are so rich it doesn't matter actually using their money to accomplish these things sadly. But again then they are still up mega corporations etc

How are you going to pay for that?

Tort reform would cover a lot of stuff.

It's basically addressing the malpractice insurance that doctors have to carry. It's incredibly expensive and of course is passed on to the consumer (us) in costs.

And it leads to dumb things. Like our doctor can KNOW what's wrong with me. But he can't just prescribe me what I need and send me on my way. First he has to order whatever tests that the insurance company REQUIRES him to have run.

So I could go in with a severe headache for instance. The doctor determines that it's not a sinus headache. He KNOWS from his own training in diagnosis that it's a stress headache and he should prescribe accordingly. BUT...before he can do that, His insurance company FORCES him to send you to an expensive neurologist to run expensive diagnostic tests.
And then...and only then, after that all comes back negative...he can finally write you the prescription for the tension headache you had in the first place.

My example is way over-simplified. But it's one of the major reasons that health care is so expensive.
Many folks would have us believe it's because of people going to the emergency room at hospitals. But no...that doesn't have a damn thing to do with seeing your primary care physician and it costing a fortune.

Tort reform would make a huge difference.

But it's like trying to get politicians to address Social Security going bankrupt. None of them have the balls to do what has to be done.

Legal actions cost nothing in overall healthcare, that's just fuck the little people. As far selling ins across state lines Ezra. Explains it better than me.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...oss_state.html

Also they couldn't just start selling they would have set up contractts with a network of doctors and hospitals in that state.

Of course Tony.

It's nothing. Despite what doctors themselves say.

NOTHING can be done to bring down health care cost EXCEPT ObamaCare. The only reason health care is expensive is from people going to the emergency room (even though they always have before and it didn't drive up costs then).

You're right. Only the magical wise Pres. Obama knows the answers. And you will follow. Never mind other people's thoughts or ideas. They are meaningless. Especially if you can link up to somebody who agrees with Obama.

I don't know what I was thinking.
Of course doctors having to pay high malpractice insurance premiums that are passed on to us couldn't possibly raise costs. And of course having to be FORCED by the insurance companies to perform unnecessary expensive testing couldn't possibly be raising the costs!

That's all just bullshit put out by the EVIL Republicans to fool us!

It's just uninsured people going to the Emergency Room that causes ALL health care costs to rise somehow.

I'm sorry for being so foolish as to think otherwise.

EDIT:
Folks THIS kind of response that Tony gave is EXACTLY what the Democrats did when the Republicans TRIED to come up with solutions. And then they simply say that the Republicans DIDN'T have any solutions.
Yes they did. The Democrats just deny them.

You always quote '' opinions '' from conservative organisation ' disguising ' themselves as news ( David Horowitz Freedom Center ) .

You lose whatever credibility you have remaining ....