crockett

Once again a Red State has shown us how awesome the good ole boy network is and how great lax regulations can be. Texas taught us this back in April when a fertilizer plant exploded causing havoc among several schools and a nursing home whom were all with in a thousand yards of the plant, which was right dead center of a residential neighborhood thanks to lax zoning laws.

Well fast forward to today, CHARLESTON, W.Va (yes they have one too) a chemical storage company called "Freedom Industries" whom had its storage tanks located just a few feet away from Elk river (literally a few feet) has sprung a leak and contaminated the drinking water for nine counties and around 300 thousand people.



The chemical is a foaming agent used for the wonderful world of lax regulation, otherwise known as the coal mining industry. Now a state of emergency has been called by both the governor and followed up by the president. (yey Vendillza can now blame Obama) the National guard is now being sent in to hand out drinking water..

We don't need no stinking regulations, the companies will do the right thing.. Screw that hippy solar and wind power, that's shit is just ignorant.. Freedom hell yea, drink up it tastes great!

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/some-peo...ssues-in-w-va/

spazlabz

that is just terrible

SuckOnThis

This is what happens when Obama prints $65 billion a month.

dyna mo

plenty of "blue states" with nuclear plants in habitated regions.

woj

I don't get it... accident happened and you turn it into a political issue? What does red/blue/regulation/non-regulation have to do with anything?

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potter

Wow, and it says there is no way to treat the water.

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spazlabz

well it can be pretty much a complicated issue. Basically it boils down to two schools of thought; the first one is a free enterprise should be allowed to conduct business without an exorbitant amount of constraints placed on it by the government. The second is that certain industries need to be heavily regulated and those regulations enforced to protect the greater good.

The first point of view basically views regulations as just an additional tax upon business thereby limiting their ability to profit. Personally I think regulations are good thing as long as they are applied intelligently and enforced rigorously. Stupid regulations are stupid. But there are a lot of good regulations that should be enforced with strong oversight by Congress.

In the two examples listed by the OP strict enforcement of existing regulations probably could have gone a long way towards preventing or limiting the damage is caused.

dyna mo

maybe the op parked his van and set-up camp next to the river there.

crockett

States like Texas and WV are notorious for their lax zoning laws that allow things like this chemical storage facility to sit right next to their drinking water supply, or as in the Texas example a fertilizer plant with highly explosive chemicals with houses and schools next door.

It's political, because their bad polices have allowed this to happen because they seem to think companies should be free to do what they want. They push this same mentality on the federal level, so it's good to show what happens in their own states that follow their own lack of standards.

dyna mo

nuclear plants by state



most vulnerable nuclear plants in us

dyna mo

8 out of 10 of the most dangerous and vulnerable nuclear plants are in blue states.

total population at risk > 40 million people.

wtg blue states on zoning regs.!

sperbonzo

Right now, the biggest problem with regulations is that there is NO congressional oversight.

All of the federal agencies that are churning out 10s of thousands of regulations on businesses every year, are doing so without ANYONE in congress voting on, or even seeing, them first. Remember that regulators are only composed of two types of people. 1. A political administrator that has never started or run any kind of business and has ZERO appreciation of what affect his regulations will have on trying to run a business. 2. A representative of the largest players in a given field of business who is strongly motivated to create a situation where the cost of starting a business in that field is so high that only the biggest players can cope, and it keeps out any small competition or competititve startup. This is the reason that regulations are out of control, and giant monopolistic corporations are taking over more and more.


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seeandsee

one day planet will dump a huge shit on us

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Minte

There is another side of this that is very common. States do have regulations that are ignored by companies because they know that most states or the feds don't hire enough staff to be out in the field checking for violations.

The normal pattern for most of the regulatory agencies that I have dealt with is they spend the majority of their time looking at businesses they already caught.

As an example, we went for over 20 years without an OSHA inspection. Then a disgruntled employee called them and made up a bullshit list of allegations about things we were doing illegally. OSHA came in for 2 days and went through every line on the complaint and when they were finished they found nothing. No fines.

Since that event about 5 years ago they have been back 3 times. Twice they did fine us for stupid stuff. $2750 for having the wrong nozzle on a couple of airhoses. They have to have holes up toward the tip. And they dinged us for another $2500 for having an electrical box with knockouts. The knockouts were in place, but it didn't matter.

That's the way it goes with government. We are on their shit list so I expect we will see them again this year.

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crockett

Actually these lax regulations come down to the states themselves and their zoning codes. Congress doesn't tell anyone where they can place a chemical storage tank or where they can't. The EPA has regulations that say how it has to be constructed and what has to be in place, but it's the states that have the final say where stuff like this can be built.

In both instances they both could have been prevented had state zoning regulations been in place that didn't allow a chemical storage facility next to a water way or didn't allow schools to be built 600 ft from a fertilizer plants and houses even closer.

It's simply state officials whom are to blame and had they taken the proper zoning regulations into consideration, chemicals would be leaking into a river right now, but rather on ground away from water that could of been decontaminated if a spill like this took place.

dyna mo

crockett having me on ignore only makes his comments even more lolly!

BFT3K

All efforts should be focused on clean renewable energy. Fossil and nuclear based energy options should be phased out ASAP.

Minte

Well it won't be..so suck it up and find a new cause.

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BFT3K

People who share your "CAN'T DO" attitude, conveniently provide cover for the most evil corporations on the planet.

Minte

There is a significant difference between CAN'T do and WON'T do. Read again the word I used.

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dyna mo

Minte's simply being realistic.

Human nature. We won't stop using oil until we suck the well dry. Nuclear will be required simply due to the unbelievable amount of energy we need and will need in the future.

PornoMonster

It's ALL states!

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Vendzilla

Can't spell my name?

Spell check in the mini van not working?

What kind of a moron thinks that because of regulations there will not be any chemical spills? California has got to be the most regulated state in the union, cars have a special California listing because of the regulations.
1991 Canatara Chemical spill, 19,000 gallons of metam sodium dumped into the Sacramento River

Here's a list too big to post of just 2012 for just California of all the shit that went wrong
http://www.rtknet.org/db/erns/erns.p...te=CA&detail=0

Crocket, you are the biggest fucking troll on the forum right now, looking for a fight with no intelligence or balls to back up the Bullshit that comes out of your mouth. If I challenge you or someone else does with facts, you change the subject, what a fucking moron!

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Sly

Since the year 1933, West Virginia has had a Democrat governor for 64 of 80 years. They currently have a Democrat governor and have since 2005.

But hey now, let's turn this into a Republicans are evil thread anyway.

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Minte

I will make one more comment to this. We just shipped out thousands of parts for the frames of a large commerical solar array system. We invested heavily this year in new machinery to make this stuff. And when I say we..I mean I..not the government.

So hop in your car and go get a big mac. It's so simple for liberals to sit around and preach about how it should be, yet when it comes time to actually do anything, you punt.

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Vendzilla

Nuclear power is one of the safest forms of energy we have. Remembering I slept 30 feet from a reactor.

In the US, no one has died from a problem at a nuclear power plant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_death_t oll

Want to figure out how many people have died because of wind power, 12 world wide.
3 deaths from installing solar panels in California alone
http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/wha...t-power-source

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dyna mo

I tend to agree. Although that's my view of generation 4 nuclear power plants ( and gen 3 updated plants), I think the current plants located on earthquake fault lines using 1970s level tech (non-updated) are potential big big issues. I think many are coming up on their end of life span, nevertheless.

BFT3K

Yeah, you have me all summed up. I am at McDonalds right now, eating a big mac, watching Fox News, and "punting".

There's no fooling you.

Minte

No you're not...you are back and sitting at your computer, still thinking about how it should be...and doing nothing

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Wellness Cash

That explains a lot

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CamTraffic

Wow. That backfired pretty quick!

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Vendzilla

It's a given that the tech that most plants go by can be improved, the facts are still the facts, in the US, no one has died from them yet.

I have done two things in my life that makes me an expert on this. One as a submariner I have to know a lot about the reactor on a submarine. By earning my "Dolphins" I have to get a good knowledge of how it all works and the safety features. They were pretty damn safe. Second, I did a lot of earthquake construction by upgrading elevators in Los Angeles. If they can have a Nuclear Reactor that's safe on a floating war ship, two on a big carrier, where one can supply enough electricity to power a city in the Philippines. Then they can build a safe reactor near cities in the US.

I would rather live near a reactor than one of those giant propane storage tanks


Explains what? That I will know more about nuclear power than you can ever conceive of knowing?

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dyna mo

right on, as I mentioned I tend to agree. (btw, I'm not one of the anti-vendzilla posters here at teh gfy).
That said, fukashima was doing perfectly fine until the earthquake. The only difference between fuku and every single nuke plant we have here on fault lines is ours haven't had to withstand an earthquake and consequently, a tsunami. That's sheer luck.

Vendzilla

I know who my haters are, you are most definitely not one of them.

Reactor technology is the highest in the US because of one person

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_G._Rickover

It's a good read and will fill you in more about nuclear safety

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dyna mo

I'll certainly read that. i've come across admiral Rickover's legacy here and there, watching documentaries and such. Certainly a very very smart person. The navy is indebted to what he brought and gave.

12clicks

someone needs to tell this idiot that democrats(blue) have held the governorship since 2001, the last three years the state house and senate have been democratic (blue). But never let facts get in the way of a bottom runger's political rant.

Vendzilla

He's an idiot, it won't help

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

jmcb420

The FED operates independently of the government. They are really their own boss. It has nothing to do with the White House.

This is what happens when rich people pay other rich people to pay people who are not rich to look away while poor people get fucked.

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crockett

I'm sure that Freedom Industries just built those tanks in the last three years (sarcasm intended). Also I'm pretty certain the governor doesn't dictate zoning codes to cities and counties, perhaps you should ask the governor of your state for a building permit and see what he tells you to do....

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Vendzilla

Is that your way of saying you were wrong?

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Magnetron

You want to hear something else that is not quite as teribble, but is terrible nonetheless?

You were the only person in this topic who acknowledged that it is terrible.

Fuck that river. Fuck those people.

The only thing that matters is perpetuating the illusion that one political party poses more hazards to your health and well being than the other.

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mikesinner

Look guys, solar panel efficiency is doubling every 2 years. That means 6 years from now it will be 8 times cheaper per watt than it is now making it 3x cheaper than oil/coal. idk when it will start to slow down because we will be getting close to %100 absorption and ROI will make new research unproductive but solar is coming real fast.

Then the new types of thorium reactors that are coming in 15-20 years are 100x safer than current reactors. They have already made small working models of these.

Shit is going to be changing real fast.

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kane

There is plenty of corruption and idiocy going on with both side. Often times things like this end up involving local officials more than state or federal.

The town I grew up in had a river that ran alongside it. There was a company that manufactured various electronic components and used a lot of different, dangerous chemicals in the process. They wanted to put in a system that would allow them to process these chemicals onsite so disposal would be easier and cheaper. Not a bad idea, but the process involved putting them in giant pool where they soaked for a while. The pool ended up being located about 500 feet from the river. One winter we had a nice, big storm and the river flooded. It washed over and engulfed the chemical pool and flooded the river with a lot of nasty chemicals.

A reasonable person would have looked at the setup and either told them no or forced them to build some kind of flood protection system, but the local leaders wanted the company to stay so they pretty much let them do as they pleased.

baddog

Please don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

crockett

You don't read very well do you..

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BFT3K

US House passed bill ravaging toxic-waste law - on same day as W. Virginia chemical spill



As West Virginians were learning Thursday of a devastating chemical spill in the Elk River that has rendered water undrinkable for 300,000 people, the US House of Representatives was busy gutting federal hazardous-waste cleanup law.

The House passed the Reducing Excessive Deadline Obligations Act that would ultimately eliminate requirements for the Environmental Protection Agency to review and update hazardous-waste disposal regulations in a timely manner, and make it more difficult for the government to compel companies that deal with toxic substances to carry proper insurance for cleanups, pushing the cost on to taxpayers.

Story continues here...

http://rt.com/usa/hazardous-toxic-waste-law-445/

clickhappy

Not to be a dick but Recycling Plant caught on fire in Redwood City California, just a few miles from San Francisco, the Blue-est place in America.
It was toxic and they told residents not to go outside for a full day, school kids had to stay in the building. All you could smell in the air was chemicals and burned plastic.
shit happens

TCLGirls

Shit happens...and will always happen...REGARDLESS of the number of regulations.

The point of REGULATIONS is REDUCING the odds of shit happening. Regulations helps REDUCE THE ODDS of shit happening. It does not prevent shit from happening, and nobody thinks that.

TCLGirls

BY the way, I have run into a few people who simply shrug their shoulders when natural water resources are threatened like this because they think most natural water sources are already polluted anyways. But that is false, and Bull River in Oregon is a prime example: http://www.oregonwild.org/waters/bull_run

12clicks

wow. the idiot continues.

when you get home from whatever it is you do for a living, read this:
The West Virginia house of delegates has been controlled by the democrats uninterrupted since 1930.

since 1933 there have only been 4 republican governors. the rest were democrats.

since 1933 the state senate has been controlled by democrats.

please just die, moron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...irginia_Senate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._West_Virginia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Vi...e_of_Delegates