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The Porn Nerd 01-03-2014 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 19932470)
Again, this is subjective and speculative for me or you or anyone to say. More a thought experiment and opinion. I for example, would not bet on myself because I know from doing it in the past, that I would not find that passion for the product that others do. I prefer PPC and data and being able to make huge amounts from my note book while depending on no one. Not that it says anything good about me, i've just found I thrive better that way and made the decision to stop everything else and chase it 100%.




I have no doubt that you will do well. This is not an attack but more an example of how a third party like myself sees people from the outside looking in when trying to evaluate two people.

Who would be predicted to succeed over the next 20 years? Bill Gates who seems to be more about sales numbers than the product or a Steve Jobs that understands not only what people want, but what they will want and has a vision of how to really impact peoples lives with the products he creates and how those products will become an extension of the customers themselves and where the products are more than devices, that they are status and social currency... and who has a deep passion for every aspect of the product and customer experience and how that product fits into and impacts everyone's lives.

I have never been a fan of Apple (though Microsoft is forcing me in that direct with Windows 8 and turning my computer into a shitty smart phone).... but I would bet my money on Jobs (had he not committed suicide) over Gates. Both could easily make an argument for how awesome they are and how awesome the future will be. Gates speaking sounds like he has a better grasp on the future of technology than anyone... but running Microsoft as a business and making its products an irreplaceable part of that future is a different problem and where they are and have been failing.
I would also bet on Jobs. So perhaps I should be flattered, having someone comparing Shap's personality and skill set to my own. LOL

Any comparisions with Shap or any other owner of a site larger than mine is not valid, given the scale, scope and footprints involved. In other words, IF Shap and I ran similar companies (like Microsoft and Apple) a comparison might have value. But given the factors I mentioned before (timing, resources, intent etc) all this really is just a 'thought experiment'. LOL

That's actually what's so frustrating (for me) about GFY and any "Adult Industry" gatherings or seminars. My little operation is so completely differant from anyone else's I know of that it takes a lot of mining to find the advice gold. Some basic business principles apply, of course, and are always welcomed. But when someone says "Try this or that" or "This works for me..." what do they really mean and how does that apply to my situation? I run paysites, not Blogs or cams or dating. I'm not an affiliate per se so.....see what I mean? Even if you run a paysite (or a Network of them, like me) chances are high that your content and audience are very, very differant than what I have to offer. So Shap's advice in this thread may be 100% appropriate and perfect for a company larger than mine. After all, I think we all agree Customer Support IS highly important. We just have differant ideas on HOW important it is and how much of a company's resources should be directed towards it.

TheSquealer 01-03-2014 05:03 PM
*I've noticed i'm full of opinions today :)

I don't think you need advice. When you are starting out, advice is to help in filling in the gaps in knowledge and lack of experience. You have been running your networks for a while now. You are hands on. You know what you are doing. All you need is data and let that data lead you where it leads. I think the only thing that really matters is in measuring everything well and understanding what comes back.

Paul Markham can talk for 100 years about a great photograph and still has no clue what potential customers are looking for, what they want to pay for, what they won't pay for, why, how to sell that product or how to keep them active members for 1 year. I think most peoples advice is like that. All a reflection of their narrow experience and biases and given within the context of that experience and rarely applicable to your own.

At some point, you become the expert you turn to. You should be the expert in your business, in your business model, in your goals and objectives and how each little part of your own business works with each other little part. No one else should be able to tell you much about how to improve your business as they are either incapable of seeing or ignorant of the whole. You have all your plans, your goals, your ambitions and you have 1000 tiny little moving pieces to a massive puzzle you are building. No one see's it all and how the pieces do or should fit together, better than you.

The Porn Nerd 01-03-2014 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 19932585)
*I've noticed i'm full of opinions today :)

I don't think you need advice. When you are starting out, advice is to help in filling in the gaps in knowledge and lack of experience. You have been running your networks for a while now. You are hands on. You know what you are doing. All you need is data and let that data lead you where it leads. I think the only thing that really matters is in measuring everything well and understanding what comes back.

Paul Markham can talk for 100 years about a great photograph and still has no clue what potential customers are looking for, what they want to pay for, what they won't pay for, why, how to sell that product or how to keep them active members for 1 year. I think most peoples advice is like that. All a reflection of their narrow experience and biases and given within the context of that experience and rarely applicable to your own.

At some point, you become the expert you turn to. You should be the expert in your business, in your business model, in your goals and objectives and how each little part of your own business works with each other little part. No one else should be able to tell you much about how to improve your business as they are either incapable of seeing or ignorant of the whole. You have all your plans, your goals, your ambitions and you have 1000 tiny little moving pieces to a massive puzzle you are building. No one see's it all and how the pieces do or should fit together, better than you.
This is all very true (and well said) and it works both ways. When people ask me what they shold do in Adult, where they should allocate their time and resources, it's almost like I need to ask THEM a series of questions just to get a grasp on what, exactly, they want to do.

Having said that I love it when people narrow their focus and discuss how they run their businesses. It's often during those times (or rants) that you can pick up little details on what might work for you. Like with your math outline of improving the user experience in steps. I've taken away some good knowledge there so Thank You.

At the end of the day you have to A-B test everything anyway so advice or suggestions given will eventually be proven in the real world. What works stays, what doesn't goes. :)

fuzebox 01-03-2014 06:19 PM
TheSquealer is the most active I've ever seen on GFY... :thumbsup

TheSquealer 01-03-2014 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzebox (Post 19932665)
TheSquealer is the most active I've ever seen on GFY... :thumbsup
I guess I found an actual conversation a nice distraction from conspiracy theories and every worthless asshole around begging their friends and spamming their affiliates to vote for them for an award that is not only a meaningless, feel good hand job but that they don't deserve and did nothing to earn.

An award btw where the guy who's site crashes several times a day, is down 1 hr a day for "maintenance" and where pages take forever to load and are more likely to crash than open, when you try to manage campaigns ... And where these problems have been the most consistent and prominent features of his site for years, can still win "businessman of the year" and then not miss a chance to use it to tell everyone how awesome he is, including writing and putting out press releases he wrote about himself In the third person, like a psychotic 3rd world dictator, rallying the masses for a future genocide.

This is a business full of worthless assholes who are either too dumb to find success, too headstrong and arrogant, too undisciplined, or just too lazy and full of excuses and where liars and thieves blow right past them as they lay on their couch playing call of duty while blaming tubes for everything, including their houseplants dying and their mom yelling at them to take out the trash

I guess it's just refreshing to hear from one of the very few rock solid businessmen who created a quality product known by all, who wants to talk about biz and share.

Shap 01-03-2014 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19932224)
Both you and Shap are misunderstanding my comments here. I do NOT think "surfers are stupid" or that Customer Support is unnecassary. And no Shap, my comments do NOT imply that I would then be a 'card banger' and try to exploit my Members. Fuck you Shap. Let's not swing the pendulum the other way here.
I wasn't trying to pick a fight. Your attitude in the previous post seemed to look very negatively at your customers. My reply was that if you think that lowly of them then you probably should be extremely aggressive and milk them for every single penny you possibly can.

Shap 01-03-2014 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 19932322)
I think you are misunderstanding. Customers are customers. The questions and concerns may certainly differ from product to product, service to service etc but that has absolutely nothing to do with treating customer service as a very important aspect of success. What concerns or questions exist, has zero to do with the processes and procedures you implement to properly deal with customer service. THAT is what does not change across any industry, product or service





This again is exactly what separate those who strive for and create excellence and those who can only reach mediocrity.

"The key to success"

Every factor is either a key to success or failure. Every factor needs to be fully addressed and managed well. Those who continually strive for excellence treat every factor involved in their success such as customer relationships as life and death. Those who don't, never achieve anything truly great, are never modeled or copied and never remembered for what they built or did and are quickly forgotten.
Interesting. Never thought about it like that but you are dead on

Shap 01-03-2014 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Why (Post 19932429)
interesting topic, i do see your point in the CLV metric. however you are unique in that you have a unique and exclusive product. i think people with cookie cutter sites are more looking to track the overall value based on how many crosses they can bang out. in their case the CLV is null as no one with a brain would ever re-join. i think few in adult are tracking things are well as through should over the entire customer lifetime, those that are and have a unique product could probably mine very valuable data. :2 cents:
Good point. We had many customers try us and then cancel only to rejoin with one of our very cost effective long term rates. Usually yearly.

Shap 01-03-2014 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19932450)
Well again, I will address the ending first. Please do not judge my "personality type" based on comments posted here on GFY. Perhaps you have met Shap and have more information than I do but if we are comparing who cares more, who works harder, who understands things more, I would place myself right next to ANY human being, including Shap.

Now, having said all that, we must also look at intent and timing. For it was never my intention to build a single site or "brand" like Twisty's. Nor do I (generally) shoot my own content. Timing IS a huge factor when we're discussing Adult. Shap started when you could begin with zero and, through sweat equity, earn millions in a relatively short time. We're talking the "Golden Age" of adult, pre-Tubes, circa 1999-2005. Now fast forward to January 2009. Post-Tubes, post-Manwin, post-credit card changes, post-nearly everything that constituted online Adult's "Golden Age". In 1999 you could start with $1000 and make millions; in 2009 you could start with $1000 and make.....how much? Millions? Doubtful.

Now while the Adult Industry continues to trend downward my little company continues to trend upward. Twisty's rose on a rising tide of online Adult's Golden Age, where a moron could put up a nude picture and earn thousands a week (not saying Shap is a moron LOL). How many others do you know of who started with zero money (and zero knowledge/skills) just five years ago and have what I have today? There IS a huge differance.

Sorry, but I would bet on myself over Shap or any other human being, you included, under the circumstances. Why? Because 99.9% of people would've given up by now if they started like I started, with nothing.

I do love your mathematical breakdown of user experience steps. :) Math is not my strong point but I can easily focus on the Steps, and this is what I do in my own way. Just the other day a Member complained about a photo gallery not loading correctly and I dropped everything to fix it. Turns out we lost some content when switching servers so I had to re-upload the entire site's galleries, which took hours. LOL Ah well, things MUST be "perfect". Well, as perfect as can be reasonaly expected then one must move on.

When you see my new HD mini-network and affiliate program called Eleganxia (coming end of January) you will see how I've evolved and on what level I'm playing now. :)
I respect your confidence in yourself and respect the success you've had since you started. You are obviously one hard working mother fucker :thumbsup:thumbsup

Shap 01-03-2014 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19932488)
That's actually what's so frustrating (for me) about GFY and any "Adult Industry" gatherings or seminars. My little operation is so completely differant from anyone else's I know of that it takes a lot of mining to find the advice gold. Some basic business principles apply, of course, and are always welcomed. But when someone says "Try this or that" or "This works for me..." what do they really mean and how does that apply to my situation? I run paysites, not Blogs or cams or dating. I'm not an affiliate per se so.....see what I mean? Even if you run a paysite (or a Network of them, like me) chances are high that your content and audience are very, very differant than what I have to offer. So Shap's advice in this thread may be 100% appropriate and perfect for a company larger than mine. After all, I think we all agree Customer Support IS highly important. We just have differant ideas on HOW important it is and how much of a company's resources should be directed towards it.
I have to disagree with you here. I know how you feel because I've been there. I started with nothing. I was a one man show that prided himself as being the hardest working go online. You could out program me, you could out spend me but you could never out work me. That said I was a little stubborn (anybody who worked for me would say VERY stubborn) and I usually let my overwhelming workload cloud my view on what advice applied to me and what didn't. Looking back it was a mistake. Twistys was very different from Bang Bros but there was a lot I could learn from them. A good example was the way they monetized their members area. Despite us both having very different content using very similar monetization techniques (and sponsors) yielded great results for both of us.

I thought I knew it all and often shot down ideas and things that turned out to be VERY lucrative for me. I wish I had done them 4 or 5 years earlier. Would have made a world of difference and it goes back to my original post. If you let a new medium of getting business pass you by and wait you'll jump on once it's in a decline. IE anyone who starts mailing ex-members in 2014. It's still great money but the money won't compare what it would have been 3 years ago. (PS anybody looking for an ex-member mailing solution hit up Joel for gamme :winkwink:)

Shap 01-03-2014 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 19932585)
All you need is data and let that data lead you where it leads.

At some point, you become the expert you turn to. You should be the expert in your business, in your business model, in your goals and objectives and how each little part of your own business works with each other little part. No one else should be able to tell you much about how to improve your business as they are either incapable of seeing or ignorant of the whole. You have all your plans, your goals, your ambitions and you have 1000 tiny little moving pieces to a massive puzzle you are building. No one see's it all and how the pieces do or should fit together, better than you.
Agreed! And you should judge your success based on your goals and how well you've achieved them. Not on the ramblings of anyone on here ;)

The Porn Nerd 01-03-2014 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shap (Post 19932746)
I have to disagree with you here. I know how you feel because I've been there. I started with nothing. I was a one man show that prided himself as being the hardest working go online. You could out program me, you could out spend me but you could never out work me. That said I was a little stubborn (anybody who worked for me would say VERY stubborn) and I usually let my overwhelming workload cloud my view on what advice applied to me and what didn't. Looking back it was a mistake. Twistys was very different from Bang Bros but there was a lot I could learn from them. A good example was the way they monetized their members area. Despite us both having very different content using very similar monetization techniques (and sponsors) yielded great results for both of us.

I thought I knew it all and often shot down ideas and things that turned out to be VERY lucrative for me. I wish I had done them 4 or 5 years earlier. Would have made a world of difference and it goes back to my original post. If you let a new medium of getting business pass you by and wait you'll jump on once it's in a decline. IE anyone who starts mailing ex-members in 2014. It's still great money but the money won't compare what it would have been 3 years ago. (PS anybody looking for an ex-member mailing solution hit up Joel for gamme :winkwink:)
No worries Shap. I see 'card banging' and I see red. LOL But I see what you mean now. :)

I've learned a LOT from you Shap, and others who have worked for you, so I can appreciate modeling other people's techniques (and hopefully success). What "cured" me of total stubbornness (a little) was when I spent 3 months designing my best site, sweating over every detail. It brought in great sales but then one day I saw an ad for a paysite on PornHub. I clicked the ad and saw the design and decided to become "inspired" and tried it for that new site that was doing great sales.

Sales jumped 30%! Know what I did? I threw out the design I had worked on for 3 months. LOL So I became flexible, and I A-B test everything now, so all these things have helped broaden my perspectives.

Shap, what are you doing with all your money and success? What are you doing with your time, your business mind? Have you found anything interesting to invest in? :)

shauna1978 01-03-2014 10:16 PM
I agree with everything except number 2. With the invention of social media, customer satisfaction has become more important than ever. Because bad reviews can now spread so quickly, failing to provide customers with good support can destroy a business pretty fast. More companies than ever are putting a major focus on customer satisfaction, and as a result, customers have come to expect a higher level of care, and attention from the businesses that they choose to deal with. With that being said, why wouldn't you want to leave your customer support in the hands of someone who specializes in it? The key is finding a good contact centre who care about the needs of yourself, your business and your customers. But, as with everything else, you get what you pay for. If you're going to turn your customer support over to an offshore company because it's less expensive, you're not going to get the level of service that you want, and your customers will not be happy. You need to use a North American company, with well paid, well trained, and well treated employees, and your investment will pay itself back in dividends.

Shap 01-04-2014 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19932783)
Shap, what are you doing with all your money and success? What are you doing with your time, your business mind? Have you found anything interesting to invest in? :)
Haven't done too much business wise. I've been watching the start up market closely and have invested in a few start ups. But haven't really done much. Will definitely crank it up in 2014 and get a few things going. Whether it be starting something of my own or joining a company or two and help them out with consulting of some sort.

The Porn Nerd 01-04-2014 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shap (Post 19933216)
Haven't done too much business wise. I've been watching the start up market closely and have invested in a few start ups. But haven't really done much. Will definitely crank it up in 2014 and get a few things going. Whether it be starting something of my own or joining a company or two and help them out with consulting of some sort.
Shit, join MY company and consult your ass off. LOL!

(Who am I kidding? I can't afford Shap!)

:)

Shap 01-04-2014 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19933218)
Shit, join MY company and consult your ass off. LOL!

(Who am I kidding? I can't afford Shap!)

:)
:winkwink::winkwink:

David - PG 01-05-2014 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19932113)
Customer Support is key but again, with adult, the "customers", while actual people, are also degenerate porn addicts. LOL So let's not confuse adult customers with 'mainstream' customers. Someone ordering a vacuum cleaner or hyperallergenic pillow is NOT the same as someone ordering a monthly membership to an interracial BBW midget cuckold creampie site. :)
A porn customer can be as good (or annoying) a customer as someone who bought a vacuum cleaner. I fail to see a good reason to differentiate between the two reject the idea of labeling all porn customers as degenerate porn addicts. That's like labeling all chocolate buyers as overweight chocoholics or all alcohol buyers as degenerate alcoholics. At the end of the day the key is to make them pass over money for product and have them come back for more.

Shap 01-06-2014 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David - PG (Post 19933735)
A porn customer can be as good (or annoying) a customer as someone who bought a vacuum cleaner. I fail to see a good reason to differentiate between the two reject the idea of labeling all porn customers as degenerate porn addicts. That's like labeling all chocolate buyers as overweight chocoholics or all alcohol buyers as degenerate alcoholics. At the end of the day the key is to make them pass over money for product and have them come back for more.
Agreed! :thumbsup:thumbsup

Barefootsies 01-06-2014 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David - PG (Post 19933735)
A porn customer can be as good (or annoying) a customer as someone who bought a vacuum cleaner. I fail to see a good reason to differentiate between the two reject the idea of labeling all porn customers as degenerate porn addicts. That's like labeling all chocolate buyers as overweight chocoholics or all alcohol buyers as degenerate alcoholics.
Exactly right. If you do not respect your customer, no matter the business, than you expect them to respect you and not steal your content, chargeback on you, etc.? Nigga please.

That being said, I do find it humorous that some look down on their customers so much as filthy porn perverts, yet expect them to buy these same people to buy from them, and rebill. It's almost like an oxymoron. I can't think of another business I've ever worked in where those who keep you in business are so loathed and talked about in such a way.

:2 cents:

Shap 01-06-2014 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 19934633)
Exactly right. If you do not respect your customer, no matter the business, than you expect them to respect you and not steal your content, chargeback on you, etc.? Nigga please.

That being said, I do find it humorous that some look down on their customers so much as filthy porn perverts, yet expect them to buy these same people to buy from them, and rebill. It's almost like an oxymoron. I can't think of another business I've ever worked in where those who keep you in business are so loathed and talked about in such a way.

:2 cents:
Most vice industries I guess. Drug dealers, gambling etc. Probably any industry that causes the business owner to question their ethics. They like to justify what they do by attacking the customer.

DamianJ 01-06-2014 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19932113)
Customer Support is key but again, with adult, the "customers", while actual people, are also degenerate porn addicts. LOL So let's not confuse adult customers with 'mainstream' customers. Someone ordering a vacuum cleaner or hyperallergenic pillow is NOT the same as someone ordering a monthly membership to an interracial BBW midget cuckold creampie site. :)
It's exactly the same.

Except fewer people trust a porn site with a credit card, so those people should be treated with extra special care and attention to keep them happy.

Shap 01-06-2014 06:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 19934646)
It's exactly the same.

Except fewer people trust a porn site with a credit card, so those people should be treated with extra special care and attention to keep them happy.
:thumbsup:thumbsup

Barefootsies 01-06-2014 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shap (Post 19934643)
Most vice industries I guess. Drug dealers, gambling etc. Probably any industry that causes the business owner to question their ethics. They like to justify what they do by attacking the customer.
If being in this business causes one to question their ethics, they probably do not belong in it.

:2 cents:

The Porn Nerd 01-06-2014 11:29 AM
Let's all hold hands and sing.
I do not treat everyone the same or every single person with the same level of respect.

Degenerate porn surfers, gamblers, drug addicts - c'mon people, we are selling to the dregs of soceity. Get your head's out of your asses (unless you make money by putting your head in someone's ass).

Treating customers with 'respect' and giving them good customer support is not the same thing as knowing who your customers are: a bunch of fucking degenerates. They are not mutually exclusive.

Having said all that, I agree from a business perspective that you treat your customers with respect. I just wouldn't want to hang out with any of them, that's all I'm saying. LOL

DamianJ 01-06-2014 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19935131)
Degenerate porn surfers, gamblers, drug addicts - c'mon people, we are selling to the dregs of soceity. Get your head's out of your asses (unless you make money by putting your head in someone's ass).

Treating customers with 'respect' and giving them good customer support is not the same thing as knowing who your customers are: a bunch of fucking degenerates. They are not mutually exclusive.
Wowzers.

If you believe people that pay for videos of people fucking are "degenerates" and like drug addicts, how do you view your own role in the chain?

Surely the person providing their needs is worse than they are. People often feel sorry for drug addicts, but never for their dealers, who are all, clearly, cunts.

The Porn Nerd 01-06-2014 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 19935134)
Wowzers.

If you believe people that pay for videos of people fucking are "degenerates" and like drug addicts, how do you view your own role in the chain?

Surely the person providing their needs is worse than they are. People often feel sorry for drug addicts, but never for their dealers, who are all, clearly, cunts.
Oh I admit I'm a degenerate pornographer. LOL I just love tweaking people here, who get all 'high and mighty' and try to convince people that selling porn is like selling cars or insurance. On one level it is, sure, but on others it's ridiculous. People have their heads so far up their own asses sometimes it's hilarious to me.

Gambling, drugs, prostitution, porn - why is organized crime so heavily involved in these things? I know there's a differance between legit casinos, legal prostitution, etc but let's not pretend we're selling light bulbs to grandmothers here people. It's PORN. Dirty, nasty, disgusting PORN.

And I love it.

David - PG 01-06-2014 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19935147)
who get all 'high and mighty' and try to convince people that selling porn is like selling cars or insurance.
There's nothing high and mighty about it. It's an industry not ethically worse or better than most others. And it's ironic you chose used cars and insurance, two of the 'dirtiest' industries known to mankind.

The Porn Nerd 01-06-2014 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David - PG (Post 19935458)
There's nothing high and mighty about it. It's an industry not ethically worse or better than most others. And it's ironic you chose used cars and insurance, two of the 'dirtiest' industries known to mankind.
Name a billion dollar Industry that's not dirty and full of degenerates. LOL

TheSquealer 01-06-2014 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19935131)
Let's all hold hands and sing.
I do not treat everyone the same or every single person with the same level of respect.

Degenerate porn surfers, gamblers, drug addicts - c'mon people, we are selling to the dregs of soceity. Get your head's out of your asses (unless you make money by putting your head in someone's ass).

Treating customers with 'respect' and giving them good customer support is not the same thing as knowing who your customers are: a bunch of fucking degenerates. They are not mutually exclusive.

Having said all that, I agree from a business perspective that you treat your customers with respect. I just wouldn't want to hang out with any of them, that's all I'm saying. LOL
You came full circle back to attacking your own customers again. This is why if put my money on shap and why I would say that until you stop making these false distinctions and lose the contempt, your success will only be fleeting and you have no chance of bullding anything great.

fuzebox 01-06-2014 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19935131)
Degenerate porn surfers, gamblers, drug addicts - c'mon people, we are selling to the dregs of soceity. Get your head's out of your asses (unless you make money by putting your head in someone's ass).
:1orglaugh Wow.

Having a sex drive makes you a degenerate now?

Adam_M 01-06-2014 05:26 PM
Was the keynote Gary V? Sounds like him from your remarks and I love that guy.

So much has changed in this and every other online business over the past 7 years. As in most any industry the first years are full of fast money and little to no rules, over time things settle get more competitive and mature. In the early days I remember a guy sitting at the bar at Internext talking about how easy it was, submit a gallery to thehun and BOOM 20 to 30 sale, my first thought was that we best get in quick because easy money never lasts.

I think customers service and quality produce will stand the test of time no mater what happens in ours or any other industry and that has been my primary focus for the past 3 or 4 years. I think that mentality has paid off with 2013 being one of my best ever and I am really looking forward to what 2014 brings with some exciting new projects.

As far as SEO goes it is a lot like the other parts on the online business, more rules, less cowboys and coming back again to a quality product. Google knows exactly what's happening on your site and if you think you can trick them with a bunch of inbound links and scam tactics then I would think again because it has no future.

Nice to hear from you Shap and shoot me and Email or IM some time so we can talk.

Happy New Year to all

The Porn Nerd 01-06-2014 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 19935661)
You came full circle back to attacking your own customers again. This is why if put my money on shap and why I would say that until you stop making these false distinctions and lose the contempt, your success will only be fleeting and you have no chance of bullding anything great.
LOL I should be flattered that people misunderstand me so. Let me ask you a question, a serious one now, regarding casinos:

As polite and respectful and considerate and helpful as they may be towards their casino guests do you think they do or do not realize their customer base is a bunch of degenerate gamblers?

Of course they do. But they still come across as polite, respectful, and oh so helpful, even to the most degenerate of degenerates. What lesson do we gleam from this?

Simple: know your customer. UNDERSTAND him (or her). Cater to them, give them what they want, HELP them - but never forget WHO they are. This knowledge will help you sell to them better, protect yourself better and help you (and your customers) stick around for years to come.

Here on GFY I am being honest to "industry insiders". Please show me where, on any of my websites, that I do not utterly and absolutely respect my customers? You can't because I DO respect them. But I also know what "pushes their buttons".

Also, you are assuming that my thinking of them as "degenerates' (word du jour) is a BAD thing. LOL I LOVE degenerates, they've made me rich(ish)! That's also why I love GFY: pre-conceived notions go both ways here.

Finally, I think having a realistic understanding of WHO your customers really are is much better for business than some "pie in the sky/all customers are the same" bullshit but that's just me. If anyone here thinks there's not a differance between selling porn and selling vacuum cleaners try announcing what you do to a roomful of strangers and see the reacion. We all tend to have blinders on around here cause we're all, to some degree, a bunch of fucking degenerates. God Bless us All.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzebox (Post 19935703)
:1orglaugh Wow.

Having a sex drive makes you a degenerate now?

When you Join 'Teen Cum Guzzlers' to relieve that sex drive then yes.

TheSquealer 01-06-2014 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19935723)
LOL I should be flattered that people misunderstand me so. Let me ask you a question, a serious one now, regarding casinos:

As polite and respectful and considerate and helpful as they may be towards their casino guests do you think they do or do not realize their customer base is a bunch of degenerate gamblers?

Of course they do. But they still come across as polite, respectful, and oh so helpful, even to the most degenerate of degenerates. What lesson do we gleam from this?

Simple: know your customer. UNDERSTAND him (or her). Cater to them, give them what they want, HELP them - but never forget WHO they are. This knowledge will help you sell to them better, protect yourself better and help you (and your customers) stick around for years to come.
I am honestly a bit shocked at this reasoning. It seems quite bizarre to me that someone in business would have that attitude about their own customers.

And no... I do not believe that the Bellagio in Vegas is looking at all their guests and patrons as "degenerate gamblers". They are look at them as anyone in any hospitality business looks at them. Like they are gold. Like they are guests. Like they are people that expect to be treated well, respected, valued and they expect their stay and experience to be perfect.

It's definitely bizarre that you would think that if someone turns left on the strip, they are a 'degenerate'... if they turn right, they are just a normal, respectable person.

At this point, i am starting to believe that you have some major problems with your own choices in terms of what you do and you are projecting. People who join your sites are teachers, doctors, lawyers, hotel managers etc etc etc. It's quite odd to me that you fail to see that and have this need to insist otherwise... that anyone seeking to fulfill a basic human need, enhance their marital sex life or maybe just finds themselves alone and coming to you for a product, is somehow a "degenerate".


You are really misunderstanding what we are saying. We are talking about your attitude and beliefs towards your customers. Not where you pretend and act as if you feel otherwise on your sites.

One can ask a similar question of you, as you asked.. "what company grew to be a billion dollar company that viewed its customers as "degenerates". The answer is pretty obvious. It's not about who the customers are, its about the personalities, beliefs and convictions of those who are running the companies.

TheSquealer 01-06-2014 06:20 PM
And really man... people are shaking their heads at you and you won't retreat. You dig in and keep arguing a point to which you originally said we "misunderstood". You even told shap to fuck off even over his "misunderstanding" of your comments. And here you are back to arguing the same points that we originally picked up on and thought was very odd.

You can scream all day long that you are a great driver and talk about your record... but when people start honking and flipping you off more and more... you have to at some point ask "whats going on here? is it everyone else... or is it me?"

The Porn Nerd 01-06-2014 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 19935772)
And really man... people are shaking their heads at you and you won't retreat. You dig in and keep arguing a point to which you originally said we "misunderstood". You even told shap to fuck off even over his "misunderstanding" of your comments. And here you are back to arguing the same points that we originally picked up on and thought was very odd.

You can scream all day long that you are a great driver and talk about your record... but when people start honking and flipping you off more and more... you have to at some point ask "whats going on here? is it everyone else... or is it me?"
Wow. OK. So people who own bars don't think that a certain percentage of their customers are alcoholics? Of course they do, and they have measures in place to "deal with" customers like this. This doesn't mean the bartender or owner disrespects the alcoholic or even judges him, is just aware that his product (alcohol) can attract a certain "type" of customer.

How is this any differant in adult? Again, I think you read what you want to read here and ignore the parts where I said a casino would treat EVERYONE with respect, courtesy, etc, but to think the casino owner doesn't know his customers (a certain percentage, and a big enough one to factor in) are degenerate gamblers who would make their mothers blow a homeless man for $10 so they can keep on gamblin' you are the one who's naive friend.

AGAIN (and seriously for the last time) you are assuming that my thinking porn customers are 'degenerates' is a BAD THING. It is not. Thank GOD they have urges and sick, perverted desires. LOL Otherwise I'd be selling shoes.

Oh - and because I call them 'perverted disgusting degenerates' you think I am looking down on them? Dude, I spent 20 years in the music biz around junkies and douschebags. I LIKE these kinds of people. While I realize a certain percentage of my customers are doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc, this does not make them NOT degenerates. LOL Have you SEEN the porn some people whack off to? OMG OMG OMG. If you think everyone is whacking it to loving displays of human sexuality please grow up. LOL

Really, this whole discussion is silly. My moral characterizations do not play into my business in a negative way but rather is quite helpful in knowing who my customers are. Unlike most (I guess) I can hold two positions at once. meaning, while I may not want to hang out with someone who joins Screw My Wife Club (because, chances are, they're swingers) doesn't mean I hold anything against them for being swingers. Capiche? probably not. LOL

Carry on.

TheSquealer 01-06-2014 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19935789)
AGAIN (and seriously for the last time) you are assuming that my thinking porn customers are 'degenerates' is a BAD THING. It is not. Thank GOD they have urges and sick, perverted desires. LOL Otherwise I'd be selling shoes.
Yes., It is a bad thing. It's not something anyone is assuming. We are telling you its a bad thing. You are completely alone in the business world in your beliefs.

Again,... with all the rationalizations and analogies. We all understand what you are saying. We understood you the very first time you made those remarks... though you kept insisting we "misunderstand". If you can't understand or accept the problems inherent in looking down on your own customers and even overtly displaying contempt for them, then there is really nothing more that can be said.

TheSquealer 01-06-2014 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19935789)
Really, this whole discussion is silly. My moral characterizations do not play into my business in a negative way but rather is quite helpful in knowing who my customers are.
It plays directly into your business and how your decisions are made and how you conduction yourself and sell your product as it frames your thinking and is the prism you are looking through... and the prism through which you see the very people you are trying to do business with.

ruff 01-06-2014 06:55 PM
Well, I get the gist of the thread. Thanks Shap. It got me thinking. Can't hurt to get into the customer service thing inside the members area. At least give the new and rebilling members the option of participating, suggesting, contacting, interacting as they wish. It's not whether they do or not, it is that they have the option to. Happy New Year to everyone here.

The Porn Nerd 01-06-2014 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 19935798)
It plays directly into your business and how your decisions are made and how you conduction yourself and sell your product as it frames your thinking and is the prism you are looking through... and the prism through which you see the very people you are trying to do business with.
I see the problem now. You are assuming my comments mean I have "contempt" for my customers. I think you (and others) are bringing their knee-jerk moral baggage with them on this one and it is YOU who are filtering things through your own moral prism. You see - well, maybe you don't - I can call someone a drug addict degenerate gambler whore and not think that's a bad thing or that it is an expression of contempt. I am EXTREMELY liberal. No - it is you (and others) who are making moral equivalencies here, connecting the word 'degenerate' with 'bad' (or 'contempt' to use your word). Maybe you were raised a Catholic?

For me, being a former journalist, I see things as 'reality' and sometimes that is very ugly indeed. If I see someone gambling at 4 am for nine days straight and has just sold his watch so he can gamble some more while his wife and kids are at home wondering where daddy is I call that person a....class? A degenerate gambling fucktard dousche. Now, if I ran the casino, what would I do? Would my thinking change? "That guy is WONDERFUL! Keep playing, fuck the family..."? C'mon now. The final step here, tho, is that, ultimately, this daddy who's gambling at 4 am? It's HIS choice. He has a right, tho I object to it, to do so. Perhaps I would encourage him to stop gambling and go feed his family but, ultimately, it is his choice. I would not throw him out of the casino but rather provide him EXCELLENT Customer Service.

How ANY of this is reflected in my business, how I conduct it or how my Members are treated I have no idea. LOL

Lines are drawn all the time and I am expressing a very subtle disctinction. Some people will not sell certain types of (legal) porn. Why is that? Because they personally object to it. So this makes them, in your eyes, what? According to you (and others) I am somehow incapable of thinking someone who watches porn I dislike is a sick fuck while at the same time defending his rights to watch it. It's called NIMBY and is a very real philisophical perspective. So please show me how all I've written here 'filers down' to my members, somehow causing them to....what, cancel quicker? :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff (Post 19935802)
Well, I get the gist of the thread. Thanks Shap. It got me thinking. Can't hurt to get into the customer service thing inside the members area. At least give the new and rebilling members the option of participating, suggesting, contacting, interacting as they wish. It's not whether they do or not, it is that they have the option to. Happy New Year to everyone here.

Happy New Year Ruff!!!

TheSquealer 01-06-2014 07:50 PM
You're correct. We are all messed up. We are all incorrectly "assuming" as you've repeatedly stated. We all "misunderstand" you as you've repeatedly stated. You are the only one who see's anything with clarity. You are the only one who "understands" for a wide variety of reasons you've outlined.

Got it finally.
:)


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