You have sold your liberty for security. How's that working out for you?

The Founding Fathers warned you about this.

Have Luck.

because.. you don't support free health care for American children who need it.. on christmas?

oh yea, proof coming right up :1orglaugh

Merry Christmas, Minte; i do know you donate and help out, but you should probably look into your looming national medical bill problem, as it is connected with the ageing population all western nations face. Alas, you'll continue letting your ideologies cloud what 'obamacare' is attempting to fix, but that is only an assumption :weihnacht

Something about this topic bugged me.. And I finally figured out what it was.. United Healthcare is not a healthcare provider they are in the insurance business. If you notice, there is a very common trend when it comes to bitching about Obamacare and the bulk of it comes from the insurance industry side of things.

I found a nice article that looks at the other side of the picture. This is an article about what hospital executives think will happen with Obamacare. These are the people that actually matter, because these are the people whom give the actual care. It seems a overwhelming majority of hospital executives are very much in favor of Obamacare.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...r/?tid=rssfeed

Of course insurance companies are bitching and moaning, they see the writing on the wall. Their little 3rd party monopoly of our healthcare system is at risk because the public is eventually going to come to the conclusion that a single payer system IS the way to go. Obamacare is just the stepping stone because states like Vermont are already going single payer.. More states will follow and the only group that loses is the insurance companies.

2020 is a long way off. They make a lot of assumptions that may or may not occur. I did notice that nothing mentions who really is going to pay for all of it.

Before Obama leaves office the US will be approaching $20Trillion in debt. The economy shows signs of life. But if you take off the rose colored glasses, this very well might be as good as it's going to get. The population continues to grow, people live longer and there is nothing to indicate that the tax base will grow. Only the tax rates.

meanwhile

IRS faces class action lawsuit over theft of 60 million medical records

http://www.healthcareitnews.com/news...health-records

I find it strange that our health system works over here and if you need help no matter how rich or poor you are you can get it.

I am self employed on a pretty good income and I pay around £128 a year NI contributions.

I cant get it round my head why so many of you are against a health care system similar to what we have had here for a very long time.

You have the choice of also going private here too

Look the simple fact is healthcare is a universal need and not a parison issue. It's been made a political issue by both the right and left and the insurance lobbyist have fueled the fire. Every person, no matter what their social stature is will get sick and need a doctor at some point. We should just all accept that and figure out a way to pay for it. It's not socialism or taking away anyone's rights, it's the right and responsible thing to do.

If it's a money issue.. Well hey no one ever wants to look at the 5 ton gorilla in the room. Why is it we always seem to find plenty of money for new stealth aircraft, big aircraft carriers, submarines and what about all this NSA shit? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't find many people whom want their phone calls recorded. Yet we find money for all this shit, yet healthcare, a basic need that tax payers of this country can literally not live with out, costs too much..

How close is the UK to bankruptcy?

I can only speak for myself. I am not against healthcare reform. It's been in a freefall for years. I am against obamacare. It is nothing like you have over there.

Healthcare reform,yes.... being forced to buy a crap product... NO.
I just posted a moment ago. I am against obamacare for all the obvious reasons.
Why do they find funds for war? Because obviously, as a nation we like war. Or we must like being the policeman of the world.

i went and saw a doctor here in Korea.
Ear nose and throat specialist.
I had to wait about 20 minutes as he was with someone already.
Got checked out, been two times in total.
Total cost 18,000 won
























which is about 18 bucks. something is seriously wrong in the usa...you guys are being robbed.

If he messes you up with a bad diagnosis or treatment, what are the repercussions?

over here? probably nothing as im a foreigner..lol

Are you talking about high costs due to mandatory insurance payments because of over zealous lawsuits in the usa?

It's certainly been a factor in the steadily rising costs of healthcare in the US.

Yeah, lawsuits in Canada are capped in various ways. So you can't sue someone for tens of millions even over death. A more realistic number is applied based on actuarial projections of lost income etc.

Perhaps adopting something similar could lower the insurance liabilities hospitals/doctors need to carry. That is in fact just one part of the issue i am seeing as an outsider though.
It seems that allowing complete privatization is not working out. I think it needs to be controlled a bit more by an impartial party. We all know government workers could careless about anything. However i think a better quality treatment could be had if the system was morphed a bit to match some other countries. Japan for instance has great coverage. Korea.

Anyway, im more concerned with the dismantling of the Canadian system at the moment and the constant dick sucking our prime minister is doing to the US establishment.

Well I'm all for a complete reform, but very few if any democrats are pushing for that and no republicans are pushing for it. This is as close to reform as we are going to get and then any changes will come as they find what works and what doesn't. Meanwhile the right would have done nothing, they would just as well kept the broken system we had and do nothing. At the very least, be it right or wrong the left is at least trying.

I think the problem is.. just general over charging.

I look at my United/Goldenrule claims.

I have a 110 dollar charge. It gets repriced to 39.54 I have a 25 dollar co-pay. Insurance then pays 14.54 of it.

Here is.. blood work.

Total charge 627.00 Repriced amount $42.92 35.44 paid by me.. insurance paid 7.48

How the hell does 627 in blood work get reduced down to 42 dollars?

If the gov really wants to fix healthcare, they need to make this rate negotiation across the board flat. Why would I without insurance pay 627 when someone with insurance pays only 42 dollars for the same stuff?

This is something I will completely agree on. Hospitals and clinics or any other medical service should be required by law to post clear costs up front for basic medical needs. The current system is bullshit and no where near a free market.

It's left a very sour taste with the majority of Americans. And because of the way it was implemented and then factor in the significant obamalies, there is a lot of people that will be right there to say, I told you so. Personally, I don't care if it fails or not. But there are a lot of people working in this building that are going to be seriously affected.

My contention from the beginning of ACA was that the timing was terrible. Work on building a stronger economy then work on healthcare.

It could be a deathblow to a lot of democrats this midterm. Or if they want to keep their jobs they are going to have to carefully rethink party politics. The republicans have nothing to lose.

This is a big one here. I just got a prescription, doctor told me I could get it in pill or injectable form, and that injectable was cheaper. I picked the pill form, since I didn't think I could give myself shots. When I went to the pharmacy and found out it was $150 per month for the pills, I emailed him about going with the shots. Instead, he sent me another prescription for a different pill that does the same thing that I got for $4 per month.

Hillary Clinton tried to do a push for healthcare reform when Bill was in office and the economy was doing great. The republicans fought her tooth an nail until she could get nowhere. There is never a good time for healthcare reform when Republicans are involved.

Honestly I really am tired of this being a political issue, because it's not. Everyone needs healthcare, it really should be a non parison issue. However the right does nothing but tries to block any progress and as you say, they are waiting to say I told you so. What good does that do for anyone but their own egos? The way it was implemented is pretty much the only way it was going to happen, I'm sorry but the right can bitch till their heads turn blue, but they have done nothing to try and help make it better.

It's like trying to win a rowing race when half your team has no arms. All they do is get in the way and create a bunch of dead weight.

The republicans were behind a lot of reform during that time.

And reading some of your other postings here, you feeling it's the best we can have, correct? So settling for less than what will work correctly is ok?

Maybe if we started with a healthcare reform that at least sounded like the politicians that signed it and campaigned on it, understood it or even read it?

eh ? Our economy is growing again, Our jobless rate is the lowest its been since 2009

Our GDP is growing faster than what had been predicted

Our public finances have improved

Our Inflation rate has fallen to 2.1%

I have no idea where you are getting " How close is the UK to Bankruptcy" because the US is in way more debt than what the UK is

Healthcare reform is not what obamacare is. It's a new tax for the middleclass that the insurance industry will take to the bank.

You didn't read my other posts, because I clearly said that Obamacare is the best we will get for now, but it will likely be a stepping stone toward a single payer platform. Once the public finally accepts that 3rd party insurance companies are much of the problem, then they will want a single payer system. With a single payer system, then will come regulations on the big pharma companies just like every country in the west already has except the US.

If Obamacare was as you keep trying to say , the insurance companies wouldn't be trying to fight it and they would welcome these massive profits with open arms. The simple fact is the insurance companies see the writing on the wall and that is the elimination for the need of a third party. Vermont is gong to be the test case that is going to show the rest of the country that it is cheaper to do away with the third party. Other states will follow.

Even Rick Scot the FL governor has done a 180 degree turn on Obamacare and is now excepting the Medicare expansion, because even he understands it will save money.

^^accepting not excepting..

Its actually not.
http://www.statesman.com/news/news/l...h-care-/nRpcp/

But they get better services, healthcare, college, etc. Now if its 15% then how do people say we are being taxed too much. Maybe that's why our school suck, our infrastructure is falling apart.

But
 

In Canada we pay similar NET Personal Taxes (Business Tax is much less than the US) to those in the States yet we have Free Public Health Care for small monthly premiums of about $40 per month.

Those on low incomes don't pay the monthly premiums. We get taken care of by either our personal Doctors or the Hospitals (some good some not so good) but as good as most of the UK, EU & US Hospitals.

In the US you may pay slightly less Personal Taxes but if you get seriously sick your on your own and you need to have at least $5 Mill Ca$h or go Bankrupt trying to pay for Health Care.

For Profit Health Care can not work for the majority it's something that needs to be provided like Roads to the public regardless of social status or ca$h on the Bank.

This obamacare shit will never end lol. USA is the only industrialized country in the world without universal health care. It's not that hard if the rest of the world figured it out.

We can all thank that piece of shit in the white house for all this.....:321GFY:321GFY

Cherry pick one state? really...
How much do you think pharmaceutical companies pay out every year in lawsuits.
Every day you see ads on television from lawyers wanting people to hop on a class action.

My neighbor is a surgeon , he told me last summer he pays close to $80g a year for malpractice insurance. So do the math Tony. These are real numbers that go into the equation.

You have clearly convinced yourself that this is the best thing since sliced bread,
I'll place a wager with you it fails. It's a tax. Go buy this(shitty)product or pay up.
Tell the hundreds of thousands of people who have already been cancelled how great this is. Then tell the rest who have seen their deductibles go from several hundred to several thousand dollars. These policies are garbage. A major medical policy at best. And in the insurance business they call it sucker insurance.

I haven convinced my self of anything, I just don't agree with your assumptions of what is going to happen. I'm willing to wait and see what happens before I try to condemn it or praise it.

I do have a question, you drive a car right? Well it's a given that you have insurance for that car. Why do you have that insurance? Why because it's mandated by your state, just like every other state mandates that you carry insurance on your car.

You employe workers at your business, and I'm pretty sure you have workers comp insurance. Why do you have that, because the federal govt makes you have it, so if a worker is hurt he has some form of income as well as help with medical treatments.

These would both be taxes as you might call them, but do you not agree that yourself as well as others are better off because of it? Why do you think personal health insurance is any different? Why should we be forced to accept a system, where insurers can deny coverage to people? Why should each state have to pick up the bill when people can't afford their treatments and use emergency rooms as the doctors office? At least this way the state is just subsidizing the premiums and not fronting the full bill for the treatment.

Apples and oranges.. Auto liability insurance just became mandatory here. If I crash into your car or your house I should have the means to pay for my reckless action.

Workcomp...It's the biggest scam in business. MOD rates are fixed by the government, So if you have a lost time injury the rate goes up for 3 years. And on the other side of the coin, no one in the work comp division does a thing about the abuse and fraud.
Since I have been in business I've gone to dozens of workcomp hearings where doctors try and insist that an employees back injury happened at work. We've never lost a hearing. Yet everyone of them costs us thousands of dollars in legal fees.

If you wonder why I know obamacare will fail. It's because the government is running it. They can't run workcomp. It's a disgrace.

And you've still not addressed my posts about how it's going to be paid for.... $$20T debt before Obama leaves office.

You don't want to hear how I think we should pay it but I'll tell yea...

We end govt provided welfare to large corporate entries whom make record profits each year. ( ie big oil, defense contractors, ect..ect..)
We cut the military budget by 10% over the next 5 years until it's 50% of what it is today.


Just to oil and gas the US govt gives out $10 to 50 billion a year in subsidies, to a industry that rakes in record profits year after year.

The military budget is roughly $700 billion a year.. Why?

The "known" black budget (ie NSA, CIA) is $52 billion this year.. Why?

Welfare is roughly $400 billion. It's only fair if big business and military take a cut then so should social services.

Meanwhile we already pay nearly $1 trillion a year to medical expenses.. Costs that would be lowered by a single payer system and included under the entire healthcare system.

Bad analogy. Buying a car is optional. Thus auto insurance is optional unless you choose to buy a car.

Having said that, I have no dog in this race, and I think it's pointless for me to compare the high level of care I receive in Canada with that of any other country. I believe Minte said earlier that it's what you grow up with that you are accustomed to. Thus, I think a lot of us with Universal Care find it difficult to imagine going in for anything from a heart attack to a cut finger and not having to show your papers or end up with an expensive bill. That sort of thing is foreign to us.

Frankly, it's easy to toss stones from the outside, so I do not.

I understand that what you laid out would probably go along away in solving the huge financial problems, but you also understand that none of that will happen.
They will only borrow more money from China and tax everyone in the US more.

Of course it will never happen, as politicians are more worried about getting re-elected and how much they will make as a private sector consultant once they retire, than actually fixing problems with this country.

As far as China and the US.. I'm pretty sure the US has gone with the stance of mutual assured economic destruction by entangling both economies so much. China on the other hand seems content to just keep the lending going in the attempt the dollar finally fails they would be in position to have the yuan take over. However I think they are trapped just like the US is because with out the US economy theirs fails as well.

There is my point. Until the root of the problems are dealt with, all obamacare would be is another tax on the middle class, which they really shouldn't have to pay.

I think people are confusing
Health CARE
and Health Insurance!

I stopped reading your retarded article when it said that Medicare was borrowing billions per year. It does not. It never has.

Find better sources that fact check.

You already pay for healthcare.

I think it's safe to say that any US citizen that has posted in this thread is aware of that.

The problem is now we are being forced to pay more for less. Either buy it or pay a penalty at the end of the year.

Our govt has been fucked for years, should we just stop any attempt of progress because of that? It's not like we can just drop a bomb on DC and start fresh.

No, something needed to be done. But not a fullspeed turn to the starboard. This is too big of a part of the US economy to risk. It should've been done in smaller pieces over a longer period of time.

And it absolutely shouldn't have been made mandatory and like the supreme court ruled.

A tax if you don't sign up.

That part of it is that has pissed off over half of the country. And until it's changed the lines that divide the people won't get any closer together.

Well there is of course another very obvious way to pay for it. Legalize pot and tax it. Not only would we make a lot of extra tax dollars, but we would save a shit load of tax dollars by defunding the war on drugs. Not to mention the tax dollars spent prosecuting drug offenders and even defending them.

Of course the current police state wouldn't like that, nor would the for profit prison system and contractors whom make all that fancy police gear..

Honestly though I do agree that a more comprehensive broader reform is needed, but really forcing it through was the only way it was going to happen. Congress could very easily have spent the next 20 years getting nowhere with a step by step attempt and that's wishful thinking of assuming you could even get all the presidents for the next 20 years to also follow a step by step plan..

It really was either force it to happen or nothing. It was never going to be a perfect first attempt. Not when one side is content to just leave things as it was and even make cuts to that.

Yup whenever I get bloodwork the "charge" is crazy then when you see the actual "payout" compared to original charge you wonder wtf is going on