i luv woman

Not sure how deep his thinking is, but that can easily translate to... With out the poor or less fortunate there are no backs to climb over.. Or something along those lines.

If you make the minimum wage $20 per hour, then those unskilled workers are now competing with skilled workers for those jobs, and will become the permanently unemployed.... OR you will have a jump in prices and the people making minimum wage will be in the same hole again.

The trick is to gain skills and experience such that you become worth more than minimum wage.




By your logic, lets just make the minimum wage $100 per hour. Then everyone will be making $200k per year and we will all have plenty. There shouldn't be any problem with that.... right?



.:2 cents::pimp



(p.s. FYI, spending money does not drive an economy upward, it simply circulates things around. Wealth and value is created and increased by the creation of new products and services that people value, and increasing productivity of the production of existing products and services. Those people that increase the wealth of a society in a very large way mostly become wealthy themselves.)





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I "climbed" over all kinds of backs in my life. What was I supposed to do stay where I was and wait for others to join me?

.

please send me a picture of your Testicles

life is like a big tree filled with monkeys climbing up and down.... the monkeys looking down see a bunch of smiling monkey faces... the monkeys looking up see a bunch of assholes :2 cents:

Well that makes more sense than most other posts, lol.

You know.. I'm no economics genius or anything. But it doesn't take a genius to know that this simply is NOT how money works. Your solution solves absolutely nothing.

Again.. Money is simply a measure of productivity. Nothing more.

One dollar = One unit of productivity. Without productivity, money means squat.

I wonder why so many people don't understand that. Doesn't anyone remember inflation?

AUstralia

Index Info
Consumer Price Index (Excl.Rent): 113.52
Rent Index: 58.65
Groceries Index: 110.62
Restaurants Index: 99.01
Consumer Price Plus Rent Index: 86.71
Local Purchasing Power: 108.78


US
Consumer Price Index (Excl.Rent): 76.76
Rent Index: 35.32
Groceries Index: 81.39
Restaurants Index: 67.83
Consumer Price Plus Rent Index: 56.51
Local Purchasing Power: 142.32

Uh oh, actual facts.

Basic economics put in a way that you perverts should understand..

If we all started with the same equal amount of porn pictures and videos, then they wouldn't be worth shit. It's the guy who goes out and does extra work to get different pictures and videos who's going to be able to trade them for goods and services.

Productivity = Earning

http://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index

big mac same price both countries and in NYC the cost of living index are all 100 but they make min wage. and you pay for it.

This will amaze you but if the min wage goes to 20 dollars , all other wages go up. That's the bottom legal wage. Wages have been flat for 30 yrs. They almost doubled it during Truman and the country did well, imagine that.

what i don't get is what makes minimum wage workers worth less now than they were 20-30 years ago? wages across the board have not kept up with the cost of living. people like yourself just say, make more money but the more money people make the more things are going to cost and then they'll need to make even more money and then things will cost even more still...and round and round we go so how do we get off this circle jerk?

I actually think credit plays a fairly big role in this.

When I was a little kid (I'm 42 now) getting credit was not easy. My mom had to jump through a lot of hoops to buy the house we grew up in and she didn't make enough money to buy a new car, she always had to buy used cars. When the VCR came out they were $1,500 and the average person couldn't afford them so the average person didn't have them. The idea of financing something like a TV or a VCR or many things was just crazy.

Then things started to change. The lengths of mortgages increased. The lengths of car loans increased. Just about every major retailer out there started offering some kind of credit card or line or credit. Banks started offering lines of credit just for opening a checking account. Getting credit was easy.

With this came more purchasing power. The average person making the average wage could now afford a bigger house, a better car, a nice TV, a cool vacation etc. Of course it all came on credit and created debt. As companies started realizing that people would be willing to spend more if you gave them longer to pay they simply stopped making many of the lower priced and affordable things they did before. They stopped marketing things at their retail price, but instead at their monthly price.

As the years went on we found ourselves in a situation where people weren't demanding higher pay because they could still afford the things they wanted without getting raises.

Now workers can get all kinds of aid from the government to help subsidize their pay. So workers aren't worth less than they were 20-30 years ago, but a shift in policies, the emergence of various government programs and the easy ability to get credit has made it so that a person making very little has options and can still survive. Instead of demanding higher pay, they turn to other sources.

Just my 2 cents.

30 years ago you didn't have a Chinese work force of 500 million that are willing to work for next to nothing. You didn't have an enormous shipping container network that allows moving those products cheaply. It's a new world.

I don't think there is a way in the near future to improve any of it. A few people at the bottom will improve, but less than ever before. It appears to me that those that are destined to be at the bottom might just as well start getting used to it.

More Welfare for Wall Street: One in Three Bank Tellers Need Public Assistance

http://www.empireclaims.co.uk/blog/w...alker-says.jpg

Almost a third of the country?s half-million bank tellers rely on some form of public assistance to get by, according to a report due out Wednesday.

Researchers say taxpayers are doling out nearly $900 million a year to supplement the wages of bank tellers, which amounts to a public subsidy for multibillion-dollar banks. The workers collect $105 million in food stamps, $250 million through the earned income tax credit and $534 million by way of Medicaid and the Children?s Health Insurance Program, according to the University of California at Berkeley?s Labor Center.

More here...

http://billmoyers.com/2013/12/04/mor...nce-to-get-by/

The rest of the world is no different than the adult business. Those of you that have been here 10 years remember.. private jets, ferrari's, lavish parties.. Money fell out of the sky and you just had to reach out and keep as much as you could carry.

fast forward to today..

You make that sound like it's a bad thing. We like banks. They lend us money so we can buy stuff.

Perhaps we could just use the government figures...

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...single-parents


"Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau show that most minimum-wage earners are young, part-time workers and that relatively few of them live below the poverty line. Their average family income is over $53,000 a year. A hike in the minimum wage primarily raises pay for suburban teenagers, not the working poor. If Congress and the President seriously want to help the working poor, they should look elsewhere.

Few Minimum-Wage Positions

Relatively few Americans earn the federal minimum wage.[2] In 2011 and 2012, 3.7 million Americans reported earning $7.25 or less per hour?just 2.9 percent of all workers in the United States.[3] These numbers include workers who also earn tip income. Many of those earning less than the minimum wage work in restaurants and make more than the minimum wage after taking tips into account.

After-School Jobs

Minimum-wage earners fall into two distinct categories: young workers, usually in school, and older workers who have left school. Most minimum-wage earners fall into the first category; just over half are between the ages of 16 and 24.[4] The rest are 25 or older."

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/Imag...hart1-850.ashx

"Minimum-wage workers under 25 are typically not their family?s sole breadwinners. Rather, they tend to live in middle-class households that do not rely on their earnings. Generally, they have not finished their schooling and are working part-time jobs. Over three-fifths of them (62 percent) are currently enrolled in school.[5] These workers represent the largest group that would benefit directly from a higher minimum wage, provided they kept or could find a job.

The characteristics of the teenagers and young adults who earn the minimum wage or less support the notion that these minimum-wage workers rarely work to support children and their families:
?79 percent work part-time jobs.
?62 percent are enrolled in school during non-summer months.
?Their average family income is $65,900 per year.
?Only 22 percent live at or below the poverty line, while 68 percent enjoy family incomes over 150 percent of the poverty line, which is $33,500 for a family of four.[6]
?Most have not finished their education. A third have not yet finished high school, while almost a quarter have only a high school degree. Another two-fifths have taken college courses but have not yet graduated. Many of these are college students working part-time while in school. Only 3 percent have finished college and obtained a degree.
?Fully 60 percent are women.
?Only 5 percent are married."

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/Imag...66_table1.ashx

"Older Workers

Adults who earn the minimum wage are less likely to live in middle- and upper-income families than are the teenagers and young adults who earn the minimum wage. Nonetheless, three-fourths of older workers earning the minimum wage live above the poverty line. They have an average family income of $42,500 a year, well above the poverty line of $22,350 per year for a family of four. Most of them choose to work part-time, and a sizeable number are married.

The average older minimum-wage earner simply does not fit the stereotype of a worker living on the edge of destitution.

A few important characteristics of the 49.5 percent of minimum-wage earners who are over the age of 24 bear this out:

Over half work part-time jobs.
They have an average family income of $42,500 per year.
Less than a quarter live in poverty, while 62 percent have incomes over 150 percent of the poverty line.
They are better educated than younger minimum-wage workers but still have less education than the population as a whole: 22 percent have less than a high school education, 37 percent have only a high school diploma, and 29 percent have taken some college classes. However, only one in eight has a bachelor?s degree or more?far less than the 36 percent of all employees in that category.
67 percent are women.
41 percent are married.

Increased Minimum Wage Does Not Reduce Poverty

Many advocates of higher minimum wages argue that the minimum wage needs to rise to help low-income single parents attempting to survive on just a minimum-wage job. Minimum-wage workers, however, do not fit this stereotype. Just 4 percent of minimum-wage workers are single parents working full-time, compared to 5.6 percent of all U.S. workers.[7] Minimum-wage earners are actually less likely to be single parents working full-time than is the average American worker.

Higher minimum wages do not address the main reason that most poor families live below the poverty line. Contrary to what many assume, low wages are not their primary problem, because most poor Americans do not work for the minimum wage. The problem is that most poor Americans do not work at all."

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/Imag...66_chart2.ashx

"As the table demonstrates, two-thirds of individuals living below the poverty line did not work, and less than one in 10 worked full-time year-round. Families are poor not because they earn low wages but because they do not have full-time jobs. Raising the minimum wage does not address this problem.

Worse, making it more expensive to hire inexperienced workers leads businesses to hire fewer of them. This makes it harder for low-income families to gain the experience and skills necessary to rise out of poverty.[8] This is one reason why studies consistently find that higher minimum wages do not reduce poverty rates.[9]

Find Another Way to Help the Poor

Many support raising the minimum wage because they want to help low-income Americans get ahead, but minimum-wage earners are not much more likely to live in poverty than are most other Americans: Less than one in four live in a family with earnings below the poverty line. Two-thirds work part-time, and most are between 16 and 24 years old. Minimum-wage earners? average family income exceeds $50,000 a year, and very few are single parents working full-time to support their families?fewer than in the population as a whole.

Most of the benefits from raising the minimum wage will go to families who are well above poverty. These benefits will come at the cost of reducing the availability of entry-level jobs. Employers respond to higher labor costs by hiring fewer workers. Higher minimum wages eliminate entry-level positions that provide unskilled employees the opportunity to gain experience. Less experience makes it harder for workers to become more productive and earn higher wages.

Unsurprisingly, researchers find that higher minimum wages do not reduce poverty. Congress should look for less ineffective ways to help the poor."



References:

[2]Heritage Foundation analysis of data from the Current Population Survey (CPS). The Census Bureau and Bureau of Labor Statistics jointly conduct the CPS. All numbers, except average family income and poverty status, come from analysis of the 2011 and 2012 Merged Outgoing Rotation Group (MORG) file of the CPS. Minimum-wage earners were defined as hourly employees paid $7.25 an hour or less. Poverty and family income statistics come from the March supplement to the 2011 and 2012 CPS data. Data available for download at http://thedataweb.rm.census.gov/ftp/cps_ftp.html and https://cps.ipums.org/cps/ (accessed February 28, 2013).

[3]The 2.9 percent figure includes both salaried and hourly employees. Approximately 5.2 percent of hourly employees get paid the federal minimum wage.

[4]50.5 percent of minimum wage earners are between the ages of 16 and 24.

[5]Heritage Foundation calculations using the 2011 and 2012 Current Population Survey. The months of June, July, and August were excluded to avoid conflating summer breaks with non-enrollment.

[6]The poverty level for a family of four in 2011 was $22,350 a year. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, ?The 2006 HHS Poverty Guidelines,? http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/06poverty.shtml (accessed February 28, 2013).

[7]A single parent is defined as someone who reports that he or she has one or more of his or her own children present in the household and who is widowed, divorced, separated, or never married. Full-time employees are classified as those working 35 or more hours a week.

[8]David Neumark, J.M. Ian Salas, and William Wascher, ?Revisiting the Minimum Wage-Employment Debate: Throwing Out the Baby with the Bathwater?? National Bureau of Economic Research Working Paper No. 18681, January 2013, http://www.nber.org/papers/w18681.pdf (accessed February 28, 2013).

[9]Richard K. Vedder and Lowell E. Gallaway, ?Does the Minimum Wage Reduce Poverty?? Employment Policies Institute, June 2001, http://epionline.org/studies/vedder_06-2001.pdf; David Neumark, Mark Schweitzer, and William Wascher, ?Minimum Wage Effects Throughout the Wage Distribuhation,? The Journal of Human Resources, Vol. 39, No. 2 (Spring 2004), pp. 425?450; David Neumark, Mark Schweitzer, and William Wascher, ?The Effects of Minimum Wages on the Distribution of Family Incomes: A Non-Parametric Analysis,? The Journal of Human Resources, Vol. 40, No. 4 (Autumn, 2005), pp. 867?894; and David Neumark and William Wascher, ?Do Minimum Wages Fight Poverty?? Economic Inquiry, July 2002, pp. 315?333.




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The heritage foundation, yeah they tell the truth lol.

https://cps.ipums.org/cps/
http://thedataweb.rm.census.gov/ftp/cps_ftp.html
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/06poverty.shtml
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/06poverty.shtml
http://epionline.org/studies/vedder_06-2001.pdf;

Come on Tony, you're not getting off that easy. He posted a half dozen non-heritage links.

the new german government will introduce a minimum wage of 8.50 Euro ($11.60) per hour until 2017

the country does fine economically at the moment, unemployment is at a record low

let's talk again in 2020, then we shall see if that was a good idea or not

So we should pay the president $50mil a year?

No, the masses do NOT benefit.
Short term? Yes
Long term? No

The town of Sea-Tac, Washington recently voted in a law that will require businesses that work in and around the airport that is in that city to pay a minimum wage of $15 per hour.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

It is interesting that Germany has the most sound economy in the EU and yet has, to this point, not had any minimum wage.... It definitely will be interesting to watch....



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I am coming to WI to organize a "Call the boss a douche day" can you PM me your co. location so I can get on that :)

but they also have the same problem that in certain areas or low level jobs with no unions the wage that is paid is sometimes so low (3-5 euro per hour) that people need to get extra assistance from the government.

i am not talking about "flipping burgers" - more like hair dresser, cleaning personnel etc

my opinion (even as an employer - which i am) is that someone who works 40h/week should be able to afford at least a basic lifestyle without government handouts

and when your business can only survive when you pay people 3 euro per hour, you better close shop and do something different

and the tax payer should not be forced to subsidize the profits of companies like Walmart

:2 cents:

I agree with you there. I also don't think that anyone should be forced to do lots of things. I don't think that you should be forced to work for me. I don't think that I should be forced to work for you. I don't think that I should be forced to do business with you, or you with me. I don't think that I should be forced to price my services at a certain level, nor should you be forced to set your pricing differently then you wish to. I don't think that you should be forced to pay more for something than you decide to, and If I don't like what you are willing to pay, then I should be free to look elsewhere. I think that everyone owns their own bodies, and by extension, their own labor

All transactions and interactions between adults should be free and voluntary. (Children are exempted for their own protection).

Government should only step in when,
A. Someone harms another person, or that other persons property. (Criminal acts requiring police, courts, and some type of jail or purgatory),
B. When a person breaks a contract between themselves and another person. (Civil acts requiring a court court where lawsuits can be heard)


That's all I have to say about that....


:2 cents:

:)


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Wow, you put a lot of work in to convince us fast food workers don't deserve another couple bucks. When I go into McDonald's, I mostly see people who look older than 25 behind the counter. And here's some news for you. Heritage foundation LIES LIES LIES constantly. But you wouldn't know that if you're living inside that conservative news bubble where they have their own facts.

yeah, well, you can question the whole system and never get anywhere or start somewhere...

like i said - i will watch what happens in Germany - should be really interesting

I knew that the messenger would be attacked, so I made sure to include those links....





.:)


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And of course they were ignored. The funny part about it is that immediately it's a lie because of who compiled the information. I don't know much about the Heritage.org people, but I can't imagine that in a day when every piece of information is available to everyone, instantly that they sit at a desk and fabricate information. Spin, sure...everyone does that.

But does msnbc just make crap up?

Thank you,I haven't seen a kid working a min wage job in forever.

Sorry I have no time for you liberals that just want to give away corporate welfare.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

well if anyone deserves welfare, it's the guys making the most money

they 'invest the most into it' :1orglaugh

That's a serious deflection. I guess when it's time to debate facts rather than opinions you guys take a break.

If you're poor, you're stupid and have high time preference. Too fucking bad.

Rising hamburger prices
 

The raise the minimum wage to $15 it will raise the price of food at McD's arguement is B.S.
Next door in Johnson County KS, the average family income is so high, most kids don't want to bother to work. So the fast food places pay $9-12 +benefits to get help.

Strange thing is, the prices for the food is the same as the entire metro area, where they pay minimum wage.