3000 dollars per month for everyone in Switzerland...votes on!

[klinton]

http://news.msn.com/world/swiss-to-v...-adults?stay=1

[MaDalton]

i might consider moving and plan to work absolutely zero for that

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

I support Basic Income - I hope it passes...





ADG

[Klen]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i might consider moving and plan to work absolutely zero for that

That is just enough to cover minimum life costs,you will still need to work
But i kind dont see sense in that plan with "no matter what kind of income you have",since someone will have a big salary and then that money will just stand in account without being spend.Also dont see point in giving it to kids,that could cause rebelius kids to run away from parents.Plus many other potencial bad things potencial bad things which could come with this,like need for increasing tax rate to cover expense of this plus flood of immigrants in country.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

That is just enough to cover minimum life costs,you will still need to work
But i kind dont see sense in that plan with "no matter what kind of income you have",since someone will have a big salary and then that money will just stand in account without being spend.Also dont see point in giving it to kids,that could cause rebelius kids to run away from parents.Plus many other potencial bad things potencial bad things which could come with this,like need for increasing tax rate to cover expense of this plus flood of immigrants in country.

because it is hard for a kid to imagine how they will survive looking from the bottom up

providing that sort of safety net has the potential utilizing basically everyone in their country.

pay for what you get

[seeandsee]

why i am not born there, jesus!

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

That is just enough to cover minimum life costs,you will still need to work

lol - i bet you i can live from 2800 sfr if i want to...

thats 2200 Euro - thats the average net income in Germany

[klinton]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

That is just enough to cover minimum life costs,you will still need to work
But i kind dont see sense in that plan with "no matter what kind of income you have",since someone will have a big salary and then that money will just stand in account without being spend.Also dont see point in giving it to kids,that could cause rebelius kids to run away from parents.Plus many other potencial bad things potencial bad things which could come with this,like need for increasing tax rate to cover expense of this plus flood of immigrants in country.

its rather like whole society on opium ;-)
i dont think that Switzerland is THAT expensive that 3000 usd is just for "basic needs".
anyway..what else do you need in life than "basic needs" (food, shelter, clothes) ? original rolex, and for that they will try to work ?
from my point of view thats ridicoulous, especially when people in country that I'm from earn 500 euros/ month and they have (almost) the same prices like in Switzerland...of food, clothes etc.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

lol - i bet you i can live from 2800 sfr if i want to...

thats 2200 Euro - thats the average net income in Germany

Thats it I'm movin

[wehateporn]

My brother works out there, not sure if he would be entitled, gets paid handsomely anyway, he'd be laughing if get got an extra $2.8 K/month for doing nothing

[DWB]

If the USA wasn't spending trillions on unnecessary wars, policing the world, and foreign aid, Americans could get a bunch of free money too, and without going on welfare.

Kudos to Switzerland!

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by DWB

If the USA wasn't spending trillions on unnecessary wars, policing the world, and foreign aid, Americans could get a bunch of free money too, and without going on welfare.

Kudos to Switzerland!

Most countries deliberately design the system such as people have the necessity of submitting for employment (wage-slavery).

Switzerland has plenty of tax money to pay out to it's people, this is due to US companies moving a fake head-quarters to Switzerland, leaving just a receptionist there taking calls, meaning they skip paying high rates of US corporate tax, while paying a much small amount to Switzerland. Not just US companies doing that either

[BAKO]

That's dope

[kane]

I saw them talking about this on Reddit about a month ago when the signatures were first turned in. There were several people in the thread that were from Switzerland. They all agreed that it had very little chance of passing and that if you lived in one of the cities, that would be just about enough to cover your base expenses so you could live on it, but not very well.

[HomerSimpson]

Interesting idea...
Would like to note that Switzerland is very expensive...

[Barry-xlovecam]

Domestic workers first in Switzerland to have minimum wage
October 21, 2010 by Laila Rodriguez

http://genevalunch.com/2010/10/21/do...-minimum-wage/

Switzerland has had no minimum wage in the past and this is the first time one has been mandated because the law allows minimum wages to be set only under exceptional circumstances: repeated salary abuse in a sector, with workers regularly paid less than the professional salary for that industry.

The federal government undertook a study in 2008, recently completed, and it consulted with the cantons, who have also studied wages for domestic workers.

It concluded that domestic worker salary abuse is widespread and routine. The new ordinance calls for a minimum wage of CHF18.50 an hour for workers with no experience, CHF20 for those with five years experience but no professional training and CHF22 for those with Swiss-approved professional training.

So, they still have jobs for domestic workers ...

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by kane

I saw them talking about this on Reddit about a month ago when the signatures were first turned in. There were several people in the thread that were from Switzerland. They all agreed that it had very little chance of passing and that if you lived in one of the cities, that would be just about enough to cover your base expenses so you could live on it, but not very well.

yup, so next it would be a big screen TV, then maybe a small car

[sandman!]

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i might consider moving and plan to work absolutely zero for that

If you can live off of $2400 a month, sure.

I would love to move there, but I couldn't live off of that. Not well anyhow.

[lucas131]

the best place on earth ... seriously ... but dont tell nobody ... seriously ...

[LightscapeMedia]

If everyone has $3000, doesn't that pretty much make $3000 worthless?

[Phoenix]

it is an interesting experiment, i hope it works out well for them.
socialism and other forms of social blankets are great ideas, but usually bring in corruption and abusers. Capitalism also bring in corruption and abusers...no perfect system until people want to behave better

[mineistaken]

Another initiative to encourage lazyness? I bet party who is behind that is like democarts in US.

[Captain Kawaii]

If you are a lay about you get jackshit. You have to work. Its a great idea. Too bad it will never happen for Americans.

[LightscapeMedia]

If everyone has a loaf of bread, you can't exactly trade yours for anything now can you.

Basic economics. Something Liberals simply cannot understand.

[lucas131]

shut the fuck up everyone, please admins delete this thread ...

[kane]

Originally Posted by LightscapeMedia

If everyone has a loaf of bread, you can't exactly trade yours for anything now can you.

Basic economics. Something Liberals simply cannot understand.

Wouldn't the tube porn model prove that wrong?

You can get all the free porn your heart desires via tubes, but people still click the banners and buy memberships from tubes and paysites still sell.

More realistically here we will see that everyone has a loaf of plain, white bread so it will have limited worth, but whole grain rye bread still has value.

[lucas131]

thanks god swiss people dont allow american and other poor or fat people in their country

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by lucas131

thanks god swiss people dont allow american and other poor or fat people in their country

yes, camel jockeys and other overbreeding welfare types are better than Americans.

[LightscapeMedia]

Originally Posted by kane

Wouldn't the tube porn model prove that wrong?

You can get all the free porn your heart desires via tubes, but people still click the banners and buy memberships from tubes and paysites still sell.

More realistically here we will see that everyone has a loaf of plain, white bread so it will have limited worth, but whole grain rye bread still has value.

No.. All porn is not equal. $3000 is $3000 no matter how you look at it. If everyone has it, then the price of everything else will rise accordingly since people no longer have an incentive to obtain your $3000.

What makes money valuable is the work, or production involved in obtaining it. $1 represents 1 unit of production, for example.

We cannot trade grains of sand by itself for anything of value since everyone can get it. But we can trade the work involved in collecting and distributing it.

[slapass]

Originally Posted by LightscapeMedia

If everyone has $3000, doesn't that pretty much make $3000 worthless?

Exactly. Rent etc would all rise with the new wealth.

[Rutger]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

lol - i bet you i can live from 2800 sfr if i want to...

thats 2200 Euro - thats the average net income in Germany

I lived in Geneva for some time.
You will be surprised how expensive Switzerland is.
2800 SFR is not a lot over there.

Only lunch will cost you about 25 SFR a day.
Next to that a school teacher is earning roughly 80K SFR a year.

[klinton]

Originally Posted by Rutger Xcams

I lived in Geneva for some time.
You will be surprised how expensive Switzerland is.
2800 SFR is not a lot over there.

yet, you still can cook for yourself and food prices in markets are not so high....

[Rutger]

Originally Posted by klinton

yet, you still can cook for yourself and food prices in markets are not so high....

It's not about cooking. Prices of groceries are high in Switzerland!!
Look it up or go there!!

On topic:

It will probably not go through since a lot of people need to sign in on this initiative.

[Klen]

Also,i think it would be more sense if you would be requied to create some value with it-for example let's say you are painter,in that case you should produce 10 pictures monthly and give those pictures for free,and if you want to sell then produce more then 10 pictures monthly.As i realy dont see any point of working if all needs are covered.

[jimmycastor]

2800 sfr can be compared to maybe 1000 euro / 1200 dollars in the us
in purchasing power,, thats okay for a minimal survival lifestyle in switzerland,
targeting alcoholics, artists and other figures that felt out of the system

even an indian waiter working parttime in switzerland can earn like 60-70k a year over there
if he was lucky getting a working permission

[kane]

Originally Posted by LightscapeMedia

No.. All porn is not equal. $3000 is $3000 no matter how you look at it. If everyone has it, then the price of everything else will rise accordingly since people no longer have an incentive to obtain your $3000.

What makes money valuable is the work, or production involved in obtaining it. $1 represents 1 unit of production, for example.

We cannot trade grains of sand by itself for anything of value since everyone can get it. But we can trade the work involved in collecting and distributing it.

If it goes through it will be a very good example of whether or not this is true.

We hear all the time that if they raised minimum wage prices would go up etc, but we don't really ever get to see it in action to see if it is true.

If this goes through in Switzerland it will be a perfect real world example. You can bet a lot of people will be paying close attention.

[kane]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Also,i think it would be more sense if you would be requied to create some value with it-for example let's say you are painter,in that case you should produce 10 pictures monthly and give those pictures for free,and if you want to sell then produce more then 10 pictures monthly.As i realy dont see any point of working if all needs are covered.

In a round about way Clinton did a lot of this with Welfare reform in the 1990's. There are situations where people could get welfare, childcare help, housing assistance etc, but they had to work at least part time in order to get these things. so, in a way, it is the government saying that they will pay for you to live, but you have to at least contribute something.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Rutger Xcams

I lived in Geneva for some time.
You will be surprised how expensive Switzerland is.
2800 SFR is not a lot over there.

Only lunch will cost you about 25 SFR a day.
Next to that a school teacher is earning roughly 80K SFR a year.

i never go and eat lunch in restaurants, i cook for myself ;)

but thats one more reason why i live in CZ - for the same money you can go for dinner here with 2 people incl. food and drinks

[nico-t]

Originally Posted by lucas131

thanks god swiss people dont allow american and other poor or fat people in their country

[slapass]

The minimum wage was like $15/hour when I was there in 2005. McDonalds was $15 USD for a combo meal. The exchange back then was close to one to one. The country already is super expensive. I am not sure how this law reads but raising the minimum wage is way different then giving people money. You can't just give everyone money as a govt. You have to collect it to give out and there are costs with collecting. This is a very odd idea.

[Minte]

That's about the dumbest thing I've heard this week. I hope they pass it. Anyone that thinks that way deserves free money.

[Umbalabob]

I have moved 2 month ago to Zürich and 3000 $ is nothing here in Swiss. A little bread roll costs nearly 2$. A Pizza 30$. 30 minutes night bus 8 $ and so on. Thats why even the girl in the supermarket earns around 4000 $

For good sake my company gave me the appartment for free. Because they start at around 2000 $ per month :-)

[Rutger]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i never go and eat lunch in restaurants, i cook for myself ;)

but thats one more reason why i live in CZ - for the same money you can go for dinner here with 2 people incl. food and drinks

I cook for myself a lot actually
But to clarify it is not even lunch at a real restaurant for that money.
It's more a kind of Walmart with fresh sandwiches and salads to take away.

Not that the food is bad
Food is one thing i really loved over there, but that's probably typically me :D

Next to that i'm dutch so we're cheap as they say ;-)

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by DWB

If the USA wasn't spending trillions on unnecessary wars, policing the world, and foreign aid, Americans could get a bunch of free money too, and without going on welfare.

Kudos to Switzerland!

Yeah that would fix everything! What's inflation?

[bloggerz]

Funniest idea I ever heard. Let it rain money!!!

[potter]

Originally Posted by DWB

If the USA wasn't spending trillions on unnecessary wars, policing the world, and foreign aid, Americans could get a bunch of free money too, and without going on welfare.

Kudos to Switzerland!

That is welfare you idiot.

Welfare is the provision of a minimal level of well-being and social support for all citizens, sometimes referred to as public aid.

Originally Posted by LightscapeMedia

If everyone has $3000, doesn't that pretty much make $3000 worthless?

Yeah, it will be interesting to watch the inflation this causes. Everything there is already so expensive, and it'll now get even worse.

[Lykos]

Swiss is really strong country... but that's just crazy

[sarettah]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/18...te-oil-wealth/

Nearly every Alaska resident will receive a check for $900, as this year's share of the state's oil wealth.

This year's payout wasn't expected to be much because of the recession.

.........................................

The amount of each person's dividend is based on a five-year rolling average of worldwide investment markets that were hard-hit far outside Alaska. This year, the calculation means the checks likely won't amount to much, certainly nowhere near the record payout of $2,069 in 2008.

.................................................. .............

This year's average includes 2009, a recession year when the fund posted a $2.5 billion net loss in statutory net income.

Last year's dividend was $878 per person, the lowest since 2005.

The dividends are distributed annually to residents who have lived in Alaska for at least one calendar year. The amount based on a five-year average of the $47 billion Alaska Permanent Fund's investment earnings, so this year's average includes 2009, a recession year when the fund posted a $2.5 billion net loss in statutory net income.

Alaska wasn't as hurt by the recession, but the Permanent Fund Corp. has a diversified portfolio, and it took a beating when markets plunged in the U.S and worldwide.

State officials have said that as long as 2009 is part of the five-year calculation, the amount will be on the lower end. After this year, 2009 will drop from the equation.

Last year's dividend was $878, the lowest amount since 2005 and the ninth-lowest in the program that began more than three decades ago. The 2011 dividend was $1,174.

The Permanent Fund was established in 1976 after North Slope oil was discovered. The state began distributing money from the fund to residents in 1982.

[nikki99]

count me in