i like the comparison of home insurance to chances of terrorist acts.

the difference of course, is a fire is a fire.

A terrorist, who just spent 12 years studying how the TSA does things.. isn't gonna turn around and hand themselves over to the TSA

They will do what the TSA isn't doing, it will succeed, and your spiral into facism will continue

see how home insurance and security against terrorism isn't comparable?

The government is our own terrorist. We wouldnt be in such predicaments if it wasnt for their personal agenda and actions. The people didnt ask for this.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Perhaps my analogy was a bit far fetched with the insurance premiums being compared to the cost of the TSA.

I still think that the "substitute" terrorist attacks thus far have been way less catastrophic than the almost 3000 lives lost on 09/11. What percentage of terrorist attacks have actually been prohibited due to the TSA being in place?... who knows.
That is just like trying to measure how many speeders didn't speed because a speedtrap is in place where it used to not be. How many took alternate routes so they could keep speeding and how many just slowed their asses down and accepted they couldn't speed via that route? All we have to go by is what happened before it was in place, and what has NOT happened since it has been in place. Too much to factor in to really measure its value IMHO.

Exactly!

It's what our govt. does that causes this hatred to begin with. Greed and corruption.

And I think it's pretty obvious from all the drone strikes that the U.S. govt. doesn't give a shit about human life.
So what do they care if "terrorists" (the same thing that George Washington would have been called today) kill Americans too?

They don't.

Matter of fact, they WANT that to happen so they can ramp up their control even more.

Oh the people did ask for this...as the government is composed of people that were selected by the majority of the people to represent them and their positions in government. If the people do not like the choice they made then they can select a new representative every 2-4-6 years...or possibly sooner via impeachment.

I have repeatedly stated that the government is of the people...by the people...and for the people. It is a simple concept. The people are in control of who they want to represent them...thus the people get the government they deserve.

I take it you must disagree with this.

i didn't ask for this. my mom didn't. in fact, no one i know asked for any of this. i asked for the sidewalks to be cleaned monthly.

in fact, congressional approval ratings are at an all time low.

I saw one pole that placed the congress at 5% approval rating. All of these people were put in power by their fellow countrymen...so I would extrapolate that approximately 95% of those that are up for reelection in 2014 will be replaced.

I seriously doubt that will be the case...I suspect it will be close to just about the opposite...as is usually the case. Since the "government" is only the people that are selected by the majority of the people...the people get the "government" they choose/ask for.

Is your Representative and/or Senator up for reelection in 2014...and will you be voting for them again or not?

How about the rest of you?

And you are repeatedly wrong.

Did you choose any of the things that our govt. has done?

So YOU are the one who decided to experiment on black people by giving them venereal diseases to see what would happen?

YOU are the one who decided that we should go into Vietnam?

YOU are the one who decided that we should invade Iraq?

You see...you are leaving out an important fact:
Our govt. does 99% of things in the shadows. We don't even KNOW what they are doing because they "Classify" everything.
If not for Snowen, we wouldn't even have known what the NSA was doing to us.

So no...obviously it's impossible for the PEOPLE to be in control of the govt. when that govt. is shrouded in secrecy.

Man, you really should stop thinking about everything as "patriotic" or not. The real world doesn't work that way.
The govt. is about as fucking evil as it gets.

Just because you might be a vet (I don't know you personally so I don't know if you're flat out lying or really a vet) doesn't mean you should be lockstep with the Feds.
I have family who are vets of Vietnam. And one who is in Afghanistan right now.
And they are not at all like you. They think for themselves. Some things they agree with, some not.

i'm disenchanted with the system and certainly disenfranchised by corporations and lobbys.
it may make me feel better to have not voted for the current loser but it certainly does not make a difference.

not sure it ever really was designed to anyway, our forefathers may have put a rough version of a representative gov in place, but their view of the typical citizen was not a good one, thus the electoral college was created to ensure that if citizens voting made a *mistake* in voting, the college would swoop in to correct that.

so we have a system that is designed to bypass voters, a system perverted with big business, the military and lobbyists

all in all................you see where i'm coming from?

I am far from being in lockstep with the feds. I decided a long time ago not to become an activist so I do what I can legally do which is to pay attention to major bills that are coming up for vote and stay in the face of my Representative and Senator as to how they should vote.

You often speak about how you are against career polititions and who in the hell is it that makes them career politions? They cannot elect themselves...it is the people that elect them and it is the people that keep reelecting them over and over.

The "government" is the "government" people choose/want or they would not keep choosing to elect the same people over and over again...and they would pay attention to what bills are coming up for a vote and get in the face of their Representative and their Senator.

If the truth could be known I would wager that 90% of the people do not even know the names of their Representative or Senator...and for those that do...99% have never contacted the over any matter. Studies have been done multiple times over the years that show the majority of people...when they leave school...they never read another book for the rest of their life. The majority of the people never read a news paper and the majority do not even watch the TV news.

It is a government of the people...by the people...and for the people but it does require that the people involve themseves in what the hell is going on...but either way the people get the government they deserve.

Choice...really? I don't think so and neither did he.

http://www.leechapman.com/zappa_quote.jpg

You have no sense of reading comprehension what so ever if you conclude from my posts that I am in lock step with the government...that pisses me off...sport. You are like all of the fucking clueless idiots that constantly accuse me of being a Republican...when I have never been a Republican in my life. Hell I am not even a Democrat anymore.

Fuck honey and bin laden. How you like them apples.

Sorry if it pisses you off....sport. I'm only reading what you wrote. And I am not saying anything I wouldn't say to your face. Not trying to be disrespectful. I just think you post a lot of things on here that suggest the govt. can do no wrong because you might have been in the military at one time.

But "Sport", I'd argue these points with you face to face as well. And if it pisses you off..then you could try to whip my ass I suppose. Wouldn't help you much, but you could try. lol

fair enough

but to clarify, there is plenty of evidence what was about to transpire pre-911, and with it, plenty of controversy.

In the end, we're left with following the money, and 3k people died, and the VC in charge, with his company, managed to turn around and make trillions from the act.

So, if you want to talk about terrorism, what is worse? 3k people dying, or the theft of trillions of dollars from your economy, and in extension your infrastructure/government economy? that's a lot of kids not going to be getting educational perks.

If you were spending all this time, money, and lives on keeping your country safe, and it didn't work, why throw good money after bad?

Speed traps in comparison to war isn't fair either

Well it is clear to me that you are going to stick by your idiotic statement that I think the Government "can do no wrong"...so combined with...your posts making it pretty apparent that you hate the Government and you make it apparent that you think it is the root of all evil in the world...I can easily conclude that you are just a kook...so go fuck yourself...sport...you are dismissed.

That is why they drop bombs when I call them and ask them to. I'm like, "yo, 'Bama, how 'bout you drop some heavy shit right on top of that little shawarma shop on Eastern Ave and Shabab Street, in central Baghdad. Those fucks just shorted me $2 and called me an infidel." And he's like, "For the people, by the people... bombs away bitches!"

And that's how it's done. Just like you say.

Good luck with all that. I'm sure they are listening to you, just like I'm sure your single vote will make a difference if they are reseated or not when their term is up.

LOL!

I'm "dismissed"? Okay "sport".

You're a character. But so are lots of other people...pretty common. Have a nice day. Sport.

Studies have been made about what a single contact with a congressman expressing your viewpoint pro or con of a bill or a vote by the congressman. And it represents more than a thousand contacts. Just as poll takers usually poll only a thousand or so people to get the thinking of the nation in general. So yes your single contact can make a difference...as they do listen to their constituents.

Robbie's points are valid.

I know it's hard for you to imagine, but some people just don't like their abusive master. Others make excuses for their sadistic master and suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

I'm all for getting behind local government, as you can make a real difference there. But federal government, regardless of what studies have shown (who paid for those studies?), you vote, my vote, Robbies vote, doesn't matter. Never did, never will. A single congressman is just that. Unless you have the ear of the entire congress, you're wasting your time with this illusion that you can make a difference. No offense, but if it were that easy, none of the atrocities that take place on a daily basis would happen, nor would any of the bank bailouts, or any other corrupt shenanigan that takes place. In the grand scheme of things, those in power want to do, they do. End of story. Not to mention, almost all of these politicians are bought and paid for.

I think that even Stevie Wonder could see that our govt. is NOT what our forefathers envisioned.

It's full of lifetime career politicians and bureaucrats who are out for nothing but money and power.

According to 'theking', the fact that I do HATE what the govt. is in this day and age makes me a "kook".

But if I loved the govt. and just did as I was told without question, then I would be smart and intelligent like him.

I would not allow anyone to be the master over me as that would be killing/dying time. I...unlike some people that have killed...do not find killing to be that bothersome...and with the pain I suffer...death can only bring relief.

The only syndrome I suffer with...is I do not suffer fools lightly.

And the people that yell to the moon...and forums...about the "government" which is nothing more than a bunch of people that decided to become politicians instead of a teacher...attorney...or a member of the plumbers union...and asked other people "the rest of us" to put them into a position of power...which we do. Then we yell to the moon and forums...about what they do while they are in the business of "government" and reelect them over and over again. So whose fucking fault is it?

It is the fault of the unengaged population that put into place the people they selected to represent them and do their business in the "government".

Dude, you are AGAIN...completely leaving out part of the equation.

The two ruling parties have made it damn near impossible to be a candidate unless you belong to them. And when I say "belong"...I mean OWNED.

Don't believe me? Then try it. Just try to get on the ballot to become an elected official.
Unless you are a multi-millionaire, you won't even get on the ballot to give people a choice to vote for you UNLESS you are a Democrat or Republican bureaucrat who toes the party line.

You are running through life wearing blinders. And you don't seem to mind it.

Of course, the bums here on every street corner in Vegas seem to enjoy their lives too. So I guess human beings just adapt.

Me? I'm not happy with how things are. I vote.

What am I supposed to do now "killer"? I can't overcome the giant political mechanisms in place that are meant to stop us from having real change.
And when I try to talk about it on a forum like this one in hopes of getting more people to join me in not accepting this anymore and using their votes to vote the Dems and Republicans out of power?

Well...when I do that, I get clowns like you with your uneducated, derisive comments.

And THAT is why we have the govt. we have. Because of people like YOU.

BTW...I personally know that the Congressmen will and do listen because I once asked one to run an investigation on a military matter. He not only replied that he would have his stall look into it...but they carried through...and the military reacted quickly where as they were acting very slowly with me. The military backed off...and though the results were not 100% favorable...they were very about 90% favorable.

the current president of the united world has all his credibility flown out the window i think. if mitt romney was president this same shit would be happening. if gore had of won that famous 2000 election climate change wouldn't matter anymore, wars would be waged only from the sea and air lets face it that is all the united states military are good for, the one percent will pay their fair share of tax, the internet could have been regulated and more.

the system is broken if it weren't things would be good.

2001 Report: Bin Laden Already Dead

Published December 26, 2001

"Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2001/12...-already-dead/

Kudos to you for backing down the US military. I can't fathom the hell you must have raised to accomplish such a thing.

We still fly. A lot. We are winning.

I agree with him totally.

Lying to a child and raising that child to believe in that rubbish is a far worse form of child abuse indeed.

Bravo for Richard Dawkins for not being a politically correct pussy and telling it the way it is.

So get over it and get used to it. He's not the only one who thinks that way and we are becoming more vocal than you can imagine. :winkwink: