Police: Nev. school shooter, 12, got gun from home

[brassmonkey]

12?????


http://www.mail.com/news/us/2411690-...-stage-hero1-2

[MaDalton]

whats the bet that his father owned the guns legally and took his son to the shooting range?

[_Richard_]

they're going to charge the parents?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

whats the bet that his father owned the guns legally and took his son to the shooting range?

there is a reason for this kind of shit.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

there is a reason for this kind of shit.

and that reasons isn't tv, the news, or what the nation as a whole does every day

it's the constitution, and father son relationships!

[Best-In-BC]

So, a kid who was probably a young psychopathy that wasn't discovered killed a bunch of people, again, and now they will bitch about guns when the real fucking issue with guns in the US is the lack of mental treatment and the complete lack of responsible thinking on that matter due to there fucking retarded beliefs .

[iSpyCams]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

and that reasons isn't tv, the news, or what the nation as a whole does every day

it's the constitution, and father son relationships!

Ban the constitution and father son relationships now before more idiots die!

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

Ban the constitution and father son relationships now before more idiots die!

and physics!

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

whats the bet that his father owned the guns legally and took his son to the shooting range?

Like my father? We had loaded guns in the house. We also had his motorcycle and car keys but never went for joy rides. My mother kept prescription medicine in the bathroom us kids never took. Etc ??.

The problem really is simple, 325,000,000 Americans and every now and then one goes full-retard.

[Courtney_Kellfind]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

there is a reason for this kind of shit.

Yeah, it's a lack of mental health care, shaming of people (especially young men) with mental instabilities, and parents not locking their goddamn gun cabinets. But yeah, it's totally because we're allowed to own guns, that's the main point...right.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Courtney_Kellfind

Yeah, it's a lack of mental health care, shaming of people (especially young men) with mental instabilities, and parents not locking their goddamn gun cabinets. But yeah, it's totally because we're allowed to own guns, that's the main point...right.

[EddyTheDog]

When I was 12 we knocked on doors and ran away...

Edit: I remember my mum was called in to school - My teacher described me as like James Dean - Rebel without a clue...

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Like my father? We had loaded guns in the house. We also had his motorcycle and car keys but never went for joy rides. My mother kept prescription medicine in the bathroom us kids never took. Etc ??.

The problem really is simple, 325,000,000 Americans and every now and then one goes full-retard.

i know there's no easy answer - something similar happened in Germany and the kid shot 15 people and himself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting

I also know that we will always disagree on this topic - i just sometimes can't hold myself back

[geeknik]

I'm waiting for Obama to get on TV and tell us that we need more gun control because it totally works! Just ask anyone who lives in Chicago! ;)

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i know there's no easy answer - something similar happened in Germany and the kid shot 15 people and himself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting

I also know that we will always disagree on this topic - i just sometimes can't hold myself back

that was in 09..

some of the harshest gun restrictions exist in Germany:

"The German Weapons Act (German: Waffengesetz) is a gun regulation law enacted in Germany in 1972.... .....It is considered as one of the strictest gun laws in the world."

the issue is the UK:

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2010/tle558-20100221-07.html

this looks.. a LOT like what is happening the US.

i know it's crazy, but take a look through, and if you can tell me why i am wrong, i am happy to hear it

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i know there's no easy answer - something similar happened in Germany and the kid shot 15 people and himself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting

I also know that we will always disagree on this topic - i just sometimes can't hold myself back

Oh I know, I just don't think the actions of criminals and mentally disturbed young male pussies should affect the hundreds of millions of us minding our own business.

.

[_Richard_]

also.

Canada
The U.S.'s neighbor to the north also has outstandingly low gun casualty statistics. In 2009, there were 0.5 deaths per 100,000 from gun homicide ? only 173 people. Still, the ownership is comparatively high ? there are 23.8 firearms per 100 people in the country.

There is no legal right to possess arms in Canada. It takes sixty days to buy a gun there, and there is mandatory licensing for gun owners. Gun owners pursuing a license must have third-party references, take a safety training course and pass a background check with a focus on mental, criminal and addiction histories.

Licensing agents are required to advise an applicant's spouse or next-of-kin prior to granting a license, and licenses are denied to applicants with any past history of domestic violence. Buyers in private sales of weapons must pass official background checks.

Canadian civilians aren't allowed to possess automatic weapons, handguns with a barrel shorter than 10.5 cm or any modified handgun, rifle or shotgun. Most semi-automatic assault weapons are also banned. As a result of exemptions, several kinds of assault weapons are still legal in Canada, although this has been the source of some controversy.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/canad...#ixzz2iV40wPTD

here is a nice article, trumpeting how well canada does with gun violence.

and it's straight up lies. We have shootings and gun violence every weekend. gangsters don't register guns, nor do they report dead buddies.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Oh I know, I just don't think the actions of criminals and mentally disturbed young male pussies should affect the hundreds of millions of us minding our own business.

.

true - it just makes me cringe though when i see a 5 year old with "my first rifle"

can't help it

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

true - it just makes me cringe though when i see a 5 year old with "my first rifle"

can't help it

The kids in my family and most I knew at the time were introduced to guns and gun safety so no one got hurt doing something stupid. Just like we were taught about what a lawn mower could do to you if you weren't careful.

Just like anything else dangerous around the house my parents educated us in how items worked and how to be safe. I'll bet my parents never considered one of their kids being mentally disturbed enough to kill others.

Seeing mental derangement in your own children is probably something most parents are ill equipped to do.

.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

true - it just makes me cringe though when i see a 5 year old with "my first rifle"

can't help it

I gotta say I grew up in the 1960's and we lived in a small town. EVERYBODY had guns.

And I do mean everybody. And yes...I had my first gun when I was 6 years old.
I wasn't allowed to keep it in my bedroom and "play" with it of course. But I was allowed to go hunting with my dad in the woods that were in the pastures that my family owned.

And the weird thing is...there wasn't any gun violence like we see today.
Even in high school...I graduated in 1979, and all the guys who drove pickup trucks had a gun rack in their truck.

In other words there were rifles and shotguns right there on school campus.

And nobody ever decided to shoot everybody else at school (maybe because they realized that everybody else had guns too).

I think L-Pink hit the nail on the head. Over 300 MILLION people in the U.S.
Every once in a while one of them goes full retard.
And when they walk into "gun free" zones like a school...then it's like picking low hanging fruit.

Nobody in the school can protect themselves.

Of course...with kids these days so numb to violence (video games, movies, etc), I damn sure wouldn't want a school full of those little bastards armed either.

I have to file it under "Sometimes bad shit happens"

[MaDalton]

i might see things differently if i had grown up in the US - very probable

from our POV over here it's just unthinkable though

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i might see things differently if i had grown up in the US - very probable

from our POV over here it's just unthinkable though

Don't people live in the "country" over there? Or is it all city life?

My family lived in the country. Hell, my grandfather hunted and fished for his food as a younger man. And to this day my dad still goes hunting and eats what he shoots.

We were just raised that way. Guns weren't thought of as ways to kill and rob.

Are there no people in Europe who were raised in the country and are capable of being self-sustaining if need be?

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I have to file it under "Sometimes bad shit happens"

And unlike just a few years ago what happens in Chicago or Denver gets reported like it happened down the street. When i was growing up news like this would not have been covered on the national TV news, maybe have consisted of 2 paragraphs on page 7 in the newspaper.

Now it's free programing for our continuous news reality shows. Nothing has really changed but more people and more news.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Don't people live in the "country" over there? Or is it all city life?

My family lived in the country. Hell, my grandfather hunted and fished for his food as a younger man. And to this day my dad still goes hunting and eats what he shoots.

We were just raised that way. Guns weren't thought of as ways to kill and rob.

Are there no people in Europe who were raised in the country and are capable of being self-sustaining if need be?

yes, there are people like that, and of course there are also hunters - even though it might be more restricted over here and the number of people (also %, not just the total) is way lower. we live closer together mostly.

Dont know here in CZ but in Germany you can "rent" an area as a hunter and only you can hunt there - no one else.

so there are not dozens of people running through the forest shooting deer - it's all well regulated

and i actually don't know one single person with a gun here - and the Czech gun law is very liberal

[sicone]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

The kids in my family and most I knew at the time were introduced to guns and gun safety so no one got hurt doing something stupid. Just like we were taught about what a lawn mower could do to you if you weren't careful.

Just like anything else dangerous around the house my parents educated us in how items worked and how to be safe. I'll bet my parents never considered one of their kids being mentally disturbed enough to kill others.

Seeing mental derangement in your own children is probably something most parents are ill equipped to do.

.

Common sense isn't so common anymore.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i might see things differently if i had grown up in the US - very probable

from our POV over here it's just unthinkable though

Depends where in the US you grow up - and rural vs city. I don't have the statistics but the majority of Americans don't own a gun nor want to.

And I just googled and the percentage of Americans who own a gun is about 30%, it's been going down since the 1970s when it was a little over 50%.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Would it help to charge the father with accessory to murder? He apparently (without any forethought) made a firearm and ammunition easily available to the killer.

I really do not know this sort of penalty might alter parents' (or other persons) behavior. I keep loaded firearms around here, either in locked rooms (where I can get at them fast), on my person, or within close reach.

Would I rather be inconvenienced a bit but have control over my firearms or would I rather school shootings like these be an excuse to restrict my gun ownership?

I saw this posted here today -- I'll repost it ... seems appropriate ...

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Would it help to charge the father with accessory to murder?

That would be a hard one to decide.
On one hand his son killed somebody.

On the other hand, he is a father who just lost his 12 year old son. He and his wife have got to be in total grief and shock.

[MrBottomTooth]

Sounds like this season of sons of anarchy.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Like my father? We had loaded guns in the house. We also had his motorcycle and car keys but never went for joy rides. My mother kept prescription medicine in the bathroom us kids never took. Etc ??.

The problem really is simple, 325,000,000 Americans and every now and then one goes full-retard.

Let's remember this day. It's the day you and I agreed on everything.

I grew up in a household full of firearms. And cars (being as my father owned a used car dealership). And motorcycles.

Not once did it occur to me to unlock the gun cabinet (It's not like I didn't know where the key was) and take out one of the rifles or handguns. Not even to clean, or look at it, or anything. I also didn't take cars or motorcycles without permission.

This shit just didn't cross my mind. Don't tell me I was a dumb kid; I left home at fifteen and a half so I wasn't exactly afraid of my own shadow.

The problem is firearms are no longer weapons used for hunting or protection. Firearms are now toys. And little boys like toys.

My friend here in town cracks me up. He thinks he needs firearms for his protection. Never mind the fact that we live in a town with a long term crime rate. He goes to the rifle range to fire his P90 four to six times a week. That's not a firearm for protection; That's a toy.

It's become common for kids to grab their parent's firearms; This parent didn't do enough to secure his firearm, period. The parents should be brought up on charges for this.

[Robbie]

Rochard, I grew up around guns as well.

My dad had them, my grandparents had them, my aunts and uncles, even my great-grandparents.

And none of them ever locked a gun up. They were always kept handy and always loaded. Always a shotgun or rifle by the door. And on the gun racks of my dad, grandfather, and all my uncles trucks. All loaded and ready to go.

That's just the way it used to be.

Of course back in those days, if I had touched my daddy's gun he would have took his belt off and beat the living hell out of me.

Maybe that's the difference...I was too damn scared to even THINK about doing dumb shit. lol
These days, kids pretty much do as they want. Add that in with the numbness to violence and it's not good.

I still remember my dad taking me out when I got my first BB gun and he hunted and killed a rabbit with the BB Gun.
That freaked me out...All I could see was "Thumper" the rabbit from "Bambi" in my little kid mind.

I guess we were all taught differently than kids are today.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Rochard, I grew up around guns as well.

My dad had them, my grandparents had them, my aunts and uncles, even my great-grandparents.

And none of them ever locked a gun up. They were always kept handy and always loaded. Always a shotgun or rifle by the door. And on the gun racks of my dad, grandfather, and all my uncles trucks. All loaded and ready to go.

That's just the way it used to be.

Of course back in those days, if I had touched my daddy's gun he would have took his belt off and beat the living hell out of me.

Maybe that's the difference...I was too damn scared to even THINK about doing dumb shit. lol
These days, kids pretty much do as they want. Add that in with the numbness to violence and it's not good.

I still remember my dad taking me out when I got my first BB gun and he hunted and killed a rabbit with the BB Gun.
That freaked me out...All I could see was "Thumper" the rabbit from "Bambi" in my little kid mind.

I guess we were all taught differently than kids are today.

i had to go to some gun safety shit it was worth it to hunt with my father

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

[INDENT]Would it help to charge the father with accessory to murder? He apparently (without any forethought) made a firearm and ammunition easily available to the killer.

Yes. They enabled their minor with the ability to commit murder.

We need to send a strong message to firearm owners that they are liable for their firearms. If someone has - a child - has access to the firearms, something is very very wrong here.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Yes. They enabled their minor with the ability to commit murder.

We need to send a strong message to firearm owners that they are liable for their firearms.

So if someone breaks into my home and carts off my gun safe then commits a murder with one of my guns I am liable? Sounds legit.

What about your guns? Are you ready to go to prison because someone broke in and used yours while you're in Hawaii vacationing?


.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Rochard, I grew up around guns as well.

My dad had them, my grandparents had them, my aunts and uncles, even my great-grandparents.

And none of them ever locked a gun up. They were always kept handy and always loaded. Always a shotgun or rifle by the door. And on the gun racks of my dad, grandfather, and all my uncles trucks. All loaded and ready to go.

That's just the way it used to be.

Of course back in those days, if I had touched my daddy's gun he would have took his belt off and beat the living hell out of me.

Maybe that's the difference...I was too damn scared to even THINK about doing dumb shit. lol
These days, kids pretty much do as they want. Add that in with the numbness to violence and it's not good.

I still remember my dad taking me out when I got my first BB gun and he hunted and killed a rabbit with the BB Gun.
That freaked me out...All I could see was "Thumper" the rabbit from "Bambi" in my little kid mind.

I guess we were all taught differently than kids are today.

Growing up all of our firearms were located in the living room, which was rarely used, and was locked in a glass display cabinet. The key was kept on top of cabinet, although any six year old could have broken the lock without much effort.

We never ever even considered taking them out without our parents.

[L-Pink]

"You ruined my life now I'm going to ruin yours" classmate recounting words spoken as the killer pointed gun at fellow students and opened fire.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

So if someone breaks into my home and carts off my gun safe then commits a murder with one of my guns I am liable? Sounds legit.

What about your guns? Are you ready to go to prison because someone broke in and used yours while you're in Hawaii vacationing?


.

Maybe, the line needs to be drawn somewhere ... If you have taken reasonable precautions -- like leaving your guns in a safe place, e.g., under lock and key, and your home is burglarized -- you would not be liable criminally or civilly for what crimes are committed with your firearms.

But you could make is a crime to have made your firearm easily accessible to a minor who commits a crime with it.

Let's face it, there are no good alternatives. I doubt under the circumstances even an armed guard with a flack jacket would have been in the right place and time to prevent this.

We shouldn't need more draconian laws regarding firearms -- just their responsible use. Fact of life, lots of kids (and adults) think they can settle disputes with violence. The Romans used to crucify criminals -- that didn't work that well ...

So, there is only some "feel-good" solution anyway.

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

also.



here is a nice article, trumpeting how well canada does with gun violence.

and it's straight up lies. We have shootings and gun violence every weekend. gangsters don't register guns, nor do they report dead buddies.

A lot in that article is wrong. There's no 60 day wait to buy a gun. I can go to the gun shop and walk out with a shotgun today. Maybe there are stricter rules for restricted guns, I don't have my restricted license so I'm not sure. Youre also allowed to modify your guns. I put a pistol grip on my Mossberg. They don't inform your next of kin when you buy a gun. The police do a background check on your criminal record but when I got my license there were just a few questions to answer....are you going through a divorce, questions about substance abuse and mental health. I could have easily lied and there would be no one to verify my answers. They're just hoping you'll be honest. Lol. The third party references is just you writing down the name and number of 2 friends. They never even called my references.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Growing up all of our firearms were located in the living room, which was rarely used, and was locked in a glass display cabinet. The key was kept on top of cabinet, although any six year old could have broken the lock without much effort.

We never ever even considered taking them out without our parents.

You cant compare then to now. When you were young they didnt give out add meds like it was candy. You got all these kids on these drugs that effect brain chemistry,that why it seems there are more little sociopaths then before.

Also the parents should be held responsible. That's how you stop these kids . Your kid uses your gun you go to jail, that will raise awareness. You are the adult you are responsible.The right should love this, its personal responsibility.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I gotta say I grew up in the 1960's and we lived in a small town. EVERYBODY had guns.

And I do mean everybody. And yes...I had my first gun when I was 6 years old.
I wasn't allowed to keep it in my bedroom and "play" with it of course. But I was allowed to go hunting with my dad in the woods that were in the pastures that my family owned.

And the weird thing is...there wasn't any gun violence like we see today.
Even in high school...I graduated in 1979, and all the guys who drove pickup trucks had a gun rack in their truck.

In other words there were rifles and shotguns right there on school campus.

And nobody ever decided to shoot everybody else at school (maybe because they realized that everybody else had guns too).

I think L-Pink hit the nail on the head. Over 300 MILLION people in the U.S.
Every once in a while one of them goes full retard.
And when they walk into "gun free" zones like a school...then it's like picking low hanging fruit.

Nobody in the school can protect themselves.

Of course...with kids these days so numb to violence (video games, movies, etc), I damn sure wouldn't want a school full of those little bastards armed either.

I have to file it under "Sometimes bad shit happens"

kids and people in general seem a lot angrier these days. address why they are angry and aside from those with mental issues, these problems would probably largely go away.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Like my father? We had loaded guns in the house. We also had his motorcycle and car keys but never went for joy rides. My mother kept prescription medicine in the bathroom us kids never took. Etc ??.

The problem really is simple, 325,000,000 Americans and every now and then one goes full-retard.

Dude. Stop talking common sense. No one here wants to hear that.

They also dont want to hear that back then the news was not as connected as it is now so what happened 2 states over may not have been talked about if the local news had something hot. Does it happen more now? yeah i think it does but now we are connected more than ever so we also hear about more.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

A lot in that article is wrong. There's no 60 day wait to buy a gun. I can go to the gun shop and walk out with a shotgun today. Maybe there are stricter rules for restricted guns, I don't have my restricted license so I'm not sure. Youre also allowed to modify your guns. I put a pistol grip on my Mossberg. They don't inform your next of kin when you buy a gun. The police do a background check on your criminal record but when I got my license there were just a few questions to answer....are you going through a divorce, questions about substance abuse and mental health. I could have easily lied and there would be no one to verify my answers. They're just hoping you'll be honest. Lol. The third party references is just you writing down the name and number of 2 friends. They never even called my references.

so the 'emphasis' in the background check is the only questions they ask

just incredible

[arock10]

remember, the only thing that stops a bad 12 year old with a gun is a good 12 year old with a gun

[phypon]

Originally Posted by tony286

You cant compare then to now. When you were young they didnt give out add meds like it was candy. You got all these kids on these drugs that effect brain chemistry,that why it seems there are more little sociopaths then before.

Also the parents should be held responsible. That's how you stop these kids . Your kid uses your gun you go to jail, that will raise awareness. You are the adult you are responsible.The right should love this, its personal responsibility.

Actually that would be passing the buck onto someone else. The complete opposite of personal responsibility/accountability. Make the kid 16 or 18. Is age a defining factor for you in a case like this?

If someone steals my car and kills someone with it, I'm to be held responsible? I don't fucking think so.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by tony286

You cant compare then to now. When you were young they didnt give out add meds like it was candy. You got all these kids on these drugs that effect brain chemistry,that why it seems there are more little sociopaths then before.

Also the parents should be held responsible. That's how you stop these kids . Your kid uses your gun you go to jail, that will raise awareness. You are the adult you are responsible.The right should love this, its personal responsibility.

But we keep saying "we give out meds like candy" yet... I don't know of one kid who is on medication. I have a thirteen year old kid, and my thirteen year old has A LOT of friends, and I know all of their parents. To the best of my knowledge, not one of them is on any kind of medication. (One of them is really, but without medication they would need to strap him down to prevent himself from hurting himself.)

I don't think it's medication that is the problem. It's a very general dumbing down of society - it's all about "me". Somewhere along the line society has become "You have screwed me over and I must pay you back".

This morning another teacher was killed by her fourteen year old student:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/23/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1

Seriously, what the fuck?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

kids and people in general seem a lot angrier these days. address why they are angry and aside from those with mental issues, these problems would probably largely go away.

I think we have more mental issues these days.

I talk about my "friend" all the time; He was best man at my wedding. He has water on the brain, multiple brain surgeries, and mentally operates at the 16 -18 year old age level... Meaning, he is forty-five years old but only has the mental capacity of a teenager.

He operates as a normal person, and normal laws apply. He has an M4 assault rifle, perfectly legal. He is for the most part mentally retarded, 100% disabled vet, and he legally can own an assault rifle. Add in the fact that he's been divorced twice, has two kids in Europe he hasn't seen in fifteen years, and hasn't gotten laid in nearly twenty years and is constantly depressed... This is going to be a disaster.

(I've discussed this with all of his family, and they "Oh, John is just John" and "he would never hurt anyone".)

I have a feeling that there are a lot of people in society who function as normal adults, but have serious mental issues - are just like time bombs waiting to go off.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But we keep saying "we give out meds like candy" yet... I don't know of one kid who is on medication. I have a thirteen year old kid, and my thirteen year old has A LOT of friends, and I know all of their parents. To the best of my knowledge, not one of them is on any kind of medication. (One of them is really, but without medication they would need to strap him down to prevent himself from hurting himself.)

I don't think it's medication that is the problem. It's a very general dumbing down of society - it's all about "me". Somewhere along the line society has become "You have screwed me over and I must pay you back".

This morning another teacher was killed by her fourteen year old student:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/23/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1

Seriously, what the fuck?

i don't know, i know a number of kids on meds. the thing is the kids prefer to keep it a secret from other kids at school. you'd be more likely to hear it from the parents if you were friends with them. one of our friends 9 year old son is on meds (i forget which) just because he speaks out in class. totally overkill if you ask me. teachers expect kids to be perfect quiet little robots these days and if they don't follow protocol, its meds time.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i don't know, i know a number of kids on meds. the thing is the kids prefer to keep it a secret from other kids at school. you'd be more likely to hear it from the parents if you were friends with them. one of our friends 9 year old son is on meds (i forget which) just because he speaks out in class. totally overkill if you ask me. teachers expect kids to be perfect quiet little robots these days and if they don't follow protocol, its meds time.

fucking child abuse is what it is

[Due]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

So if someone breaks into my home and carts off my gun safe then commits a murder with one of my guns I am liable? Sounds legit.

What about your guns? Are you ready to go to prison because someone broke in and used yours while you're in Hawaii vacationing?


.

how about if you leave your gun and ammo in the open or tell your child where the keys are for the safe? I would say yes, 2nd degree murder minimum, add extra charges if it can proven your family member with access had mental problems.

having an arsenal of weapons laying in your house unprotected and someone enters your house knowing you got weapons? I would say yes absolutely, 2nd degree sounds reasonable.

if you had your guns and ammo stored safely according to all the guidance available then no you seem to be responsible.

do you think it's unfair? to me that sounds pretty fair, with freedom comes responsibility