Senate announces deal to end government shutdown

[Rochard]

Outstanding.

But of course the Republicans - who held a gun to our heads for two weeks - are claiming victory.

McConnell claimed victory for Republicans in the fact that the sequester cuts mandated by the Budget Control Act were preserved, and assured the party he is committed to fighting to repeal Obamacare.

"Republicans remain determined to repeal this terrible law, but for today the relief we hope for is to reopen the government, avoid default and protect the historic cuts we achieve under the Budget Control Act," he said. "This is far less than many of us had hoped for, frankly, but its far better than what some had sought. Now it's time for Republicans to unite behind other crucial goals."

The fucking Republican party is so determined to kill Obamacare that they are blind and cannot think of anything else.

Disgusting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...-debt-ceiling/

[mikesinner]

Both CNN and MSNBC are saying this is a big lose for the Republicans

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by mikesinner

Both CNN and MSNBC are saying this is a big lose for the Republicans

that's cause it is.. Cruz' acting like an impudent child by holding a press conference while McConnell was giving that speech is.. well:

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Time to shutdown Ted Cruz and the Tea Party numbskulls...



ADG

[Tom_PM]

It's a huge loss for them.. in house seats in the upcoming election. please oh please.

[crockett]

The people that vote for these idiots are just as ignorant as they are. Their districts are so gerrymandered they will still not lose their seats. However the republicans have pretty much fucked themselves as far as gaining new seats or getting a majority in the senate.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by mikesinner

Both CNN and MSNBC are saying this is a big lose for the Republicans

This is a huge lose for the Republican party. They tried to shut down the entire US government and tied the re-opening into de-funding a healthcare bill that is already law. Shutting down the government makes the Republicans look bad, and their failure to de-fund Obamacare also looks bad.

The Republican party backed themselves into a corner and looked bad no matter what.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Outstanding.

But of course the Republicans - who held a gun to our heads for two weeks - are claiming victory.



The fucking Republican party is so determined to kill Obamacare that they are blind and cannot think of anything else.

Disgusting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...-debt-ceiling/

Really because Obama keeps saying unless he gets everything he doesn't even want to talk....

Also I keep asking, Defund??? I mean isn't this completely funded, like from everyone buying in? I mean forced to buy in, and or pay the fines? Seems like a LOT of money to get a few million insured... I see several people saying they can still get cheaper and better rates than the federal exchanges, so.... ummmm

Just the medium to low income who get the tax credit back I guess.

Some places if you do not make enough money, you Do not qualify for ACA or the Tax credits...

Can you see the Logic here? So the super poor are still uninsured, other who almost could afford it now get a few hundred off a month at the cost of what Billions from the government??

FAIL

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Really because Obama keeps saying unless he gets everything he doesn't even want to talk....

Also I keep asking, Defund??? I mean isn't this completely funded, like from everyone buying in? I mean forced to buy in, and or pay the fines? Seems like a LOT of money to get a few million insured... I see several people saying they can still get cheaper and better rates than the federal exchanges, so.... ummmm

Just the medium to low income who get the tax credit back I guess.

Some places if you do not make enough money, you Do not qualify for ACA or the Tax credits...

Can you see the Logic here? So the super poor are still uninsured, other who almost could afford it now get a few hundred off a month at the cost of what Billions from the government??

FAIL

of course, because the original legislation had a public option

obama didn't take out the public option.. so who did?

[sandman!]

[PornoMonster]

I have a Plan. The Multi Millions that are insured, ADOPT an uninsured and add them to their plan. The adopted is responsible for the deductibles and overages, and % not covered...

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

of course, because the original legislation had a public option

obama didn't take out the public option.. so who did?

Depends on what Public you ask..

%'s are low for everyone...


Honestly I want to get the first year of this ACA over with so I can see the excuses and stuff after, No matter how it turns out...

I know the Unions are happy now, I heard they get an exemption now. They were writing the President and others how irresponsible this ACA was and how it was going to kill the unions.. HA

Which I am not opposed to....

If you haven't noticed I dis like both sides. But I do see some Logic in things that tend to go with more of one than the other...

More Gov = BAD
More Credit = Bad
Not cutting SPending = Bad

Paying billions and Forcing people to buy something to help a few million MAYBE = Bad

Bringing Religion into Politics = bad

So on so on...

[Barry-xlovecam]

They are just kicking the can down the road until January 15, 2014.

Then it will be the same bullshit again ...

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Depends on what Public you ask..

%'s are low for everyone...


Honestly I want to get the first year of this ACA over with so I can see the excuses and stuff after, No matter how it turns out...

I know the Unions are happy now, I heard they get an exemption now. They were writing the President and others how irresponsible this ACA was and how it was going to kill the unions.. HA

Which I am not opposed to....

If you haven't noticed I dis like both sides. But I do see some Logic in things that tend to go with more of one than the other...

More Gov = BAD
More Credit = Bad
Not cutting SPending = Bad

Paying billions and Forcing people to buy something to help a few million MAYBE = Bad

Bringing Religion into Politics = bad

So on so on...

well.. you have said a lot and i am going to not really address.. any of it.

but the right/corporations were against AFA till the public option was removed. then they were all for it. cause now you legally have to buy a private product, which is a little fucked up.

in order for there to be a 'free market', everyone should be able to participate, and that includes the government.

[arock10]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Really because Obama keeps saying unless he gets everything he doesn't even want to talk....

Also I keep asking, Defund??? I mean isn't this completely funded, like from everyone buying in? I mean forced to buy in, and or pay the fines? Seems like a LOT of money to get a few million insured... I see several people saying they can still get cheaper and better rates than the federal exchanges, so.... ummmm

Just the medium to low income who get the tax credit back I guess.

Some places if you do not make enough money, you Do not qualify for ACA or the Tax credits...

Can you see the Logic here? So the super poor are still uninsured, other who almost could afford it now get a few hundred off a month at the cost of what Billions from the government??

FAIL

"just the medium to low income who get the tax credit back I guess."

Yes this the point of the law. The people that aren't covered in the Medicare have only their state legislatures to blame

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Really because Obama keeps saying unless he gets everything he doesn't even want to talk....

We shouldn't be discussing or negotiating something that is already a law by holding the country hostage at gunpoint. You can't do this - "We'll shut down the government unless the President kills the healthcare act". That's blackmail. Is this what the Republican party has become?

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Also I keep asking, Defund??? I mean isn't this completely funded, like from everyone buying in? I mean forced to buy in, and or pay the fines? Seems like a LOT of money to get a few million insured... I see several people saying they can still get cheaper and better rates than the federal exchanges, so.... ummmm

They are trying to take away future money from it.

As for being "forced to buy in", well, you are required to have car insurance and homeowners insurance, so... It's not like this is a new concept for us.

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Can you see the Logic here? So the super poor are still uninsured, other who almost could afford it now get a few hundred off a month at the cost of what Billions from the government??

It's just the opposite really. If you are insured, you paying for those who aren't insured.

It's gotten to the point where doctors and hospitals have two different prices - one for insurance, and one for the un-insured. And the difference is staggering.

[GregE]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

...but the right/corporations were against AFA till the public option was removed. then they were all for it. cause now you legally have to buy a private product, which is a little fucked up.

That's a lot more than just a "little" fucked up.

The company's we're now required to do business with are guilty of literally murdering people. Lots of people.

Having said this, I think Obamacare is slightly better than what we had before nonetheless

[kane]

The sad news is that we will do this again in January or whenever this deal expires. This has been par for the course for the last 4 years. Every 6-8 months we have to have last minute talks just to keep the country from shutting down. And they wonder why there is no consumer confidence.

[onwebcam]

It's always a last minute deal. It will continue on until at the very least 2016 but in reality not until someone gets in office has some balls to do something about it.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by GregE

That's a lot more than just a "little" fucked up.

The company's we're now required to do business with are guilty of literally murdering people. Lots of people.

Having said this, I think Obamacare is slightly better than what we had before nonetheless

sorry, what i understand as canadian humour.. so my? humour.. if i am saying 'little' or something out of place, it's sarcasm.

No public option on universal healthcare, paid for by taxpayers, is alllll kinds of fucked up

however, there is an aging population issue, and that needs to be taken care of. First by putting that cost in the lap 'of the people', and secondly by 'right to die' legislation

[kane]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

sorry, what i understand as canadian humour.. so my? humour.. if i am saying 'little' or something out of place, it's sarcasm.

No public option on universal healthcare, paid for by taxpayers, is alllll kinds of fucked up

however, there is an aging population issue, and that needs to be taken care of. First by putting that cost in the lap 'of the people', and secondly by 'right to die' legislation

The aging population part is an interesting factor in all of this. With medicine and advances in technology people are living longer than they ever had. In the past a 65-year-old person might get an illness or injury that would kill them, but now they can fix it and those people live another 20 years. In some cases those people are taking a lot of medication and the costs add up quickly.

When our system was put in place this didn't happen and along the way they have never really made adjustments to it to help deal with these costs.

[Robbie]

Everybody is happy now that it's back to "Business As Usual" and the federal govt. will keep on borrowing and driving up the debt.

Boy...when interest rates go back up and the country collapses, everyone will wonder what happened.

Well, what happened is that the govt. is running unchecked.

It was only 17% of the total govt. that was "shut down" anyway. But boy, the media and the ruling party sure made a big stink about it.

A "gun to the head".

So what were the Dems doing to Richard Nixon in the 1970's when they demanded campaign finance reform in order to raise the debt ceiling?
Oh yeah...it never went this far because Nixon immediately negotiated a deal with them.

But the real thing that you should all be pissed about is the fact that the Senate hasn't passed a budget in years now. There would be no "govt. shutdown" if they would.
The "CR" is a "Continuing Resolution" that they keep passing every few months in lieu of a budget.

It's just amazing that the real problem isn't being talked about. Just nonsense about Cruz and rhetoric like "Gun to the head"

What a bunch of ignorant sheep that we are to keep falling for this over and over and over

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by kane

The aging population part is an interesting factor in all of this. With medicine and advances in technology people are living longer than they ever had. In the past a 65-year-old person might get an illness or injury that would kill them, but now they can fix it and those people live another 20 years. In some cases those people are taking a lot of medication and the costs add up quickly.

When our system was put in place this didn't happen and along the way they have never really made adjustments to it to help deal with these costs.

its a major problem for every developed country, and we HAVE universal health care..

what you guys are looking at.. terrorism is the least of your worries

[PornMD]

Here's an idea - cut our ridiculous military spending. Republicans will never do that though, which is why I've pretty much abandoned any support I've had for them. They'd sooner cut education and help turn out kids into fucking idiots before reducing how many of them we send into harm's way. Churn out sheep and have them battle for us, eh?

And yes, Obamacare isn't the most ideal solution, but it's what the fucking government agreed upon with a vote, so to hold the federal government hostage over it is childish at best and fucking devastating at worst. Our country's credit rating will be further fucked. The veterans (aka the military the Republicans say they support) are getting fistfucked with this shutdown. Surely lots more too. AND Republicans STILL aren't getting what they wanted anyways.

So all they've done is fuck the country and a lot of its citizens over what amounts to a tantrum that a law they didn't like got passed in the first place. Thanks.

Obama's been a piece of shit in many cases throughout his terms, but he's by no means at fault for any of this shit that's happened. Republican party grasping at the final threads of power it's hanging from, trying not to become irrelevant because of the fucking idiots they had put up for president last time. They fail at even being the Not Obama party because they have so many batshit insane idiots that even people avidly against Obama wouldn't want to associate themselves with those loons.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Everybody is happy now that it's back to "Business As Usual" and the federal govt. will keep on borrowing and driving up the debt.

Boy...when interest rates go back up and the country collapses, everyone will wonder what happened.

Well, what happened is that the govt. is running unchecked.

It was only 17% of the total govt. that was "shut down" anyway. But boy, the media and the ruling party sure made a big stink about it.

A "gun to the head".

So what were the Dems doing to Richard Nixon in the 1970's when they demanded campaign finance reform in order to raise the debt ceiling?
Oh yeah...it never went this far because Nixon immediately negotiated a deal with them.

But the real thing that you should all be pissed about is the fact that the Senate hasn't passed a budget in years now. There would be no "govt. shutdown" if they would.
The "CR" is a "Continuing Resolution" that they keep passing every few months in lieu of a budget.

It's just amazing that the real problem isn't being talked about. Just nonsense about Cruz and rhetoric like "Gun to the head"

What a bunch of ignorant sheep that we are to keep falling for this over and over and over

Pretty much since the republicans took back the house in 2010 there has not been a budget passed. It is going to be that way, likely until 2016 unless the democrats take back the house in 2014.

What's worse is that this has set us on a course of continuing to do this. Whichever party is in the minority now knows how to work the system. If the republicans manage to win the white house in 2016 you can count on the democrats returning the budgetary favor.

We have headed down a potentially long and ugly road.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by kane

Pretty much since the republicans took back the house in 2010 there has not been a budget passed. It is going to be that way, likely until 2016 unless the democrats take back the house in 2014.

I read that their has not been a "real" Federal Budget (a complete budget as required by law) since 1997.

It's always "CR" after "CR"

Apparently that is now business as usual.

17 Trillion dollar deficit, and still spending billions every day.

Unreal. And of course Washington D.C. cooks the books to make it look less bad.

Check this out:
"Unfunded obligations excluded
The U.S. government is obligated under current law to mandatory payments for programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) projects that payouts for these programs will significantly exceed tax revenues over the next 75 years. The Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) payouts already exceed program tax revenues, and social security payouts exceeded payroll taxes in fiscal 2010. These deficits require funding from other tax sources or borrowing. The present value of these deficits or unfunded obligations is an estimated $45.8 trillion. This is the amount that would have had to be set aside in 2009 in order to pay for the unfunded obligations which, under current law, will have to be raised by the government in the future. Approximately $7.7 trillion relates to Social Security, while $38.2 trillion relates to Medicare and Medicaid. In other words, health care programs will require nearly five times more funding than Social Security. Adding this to the national debt and other federal obligations would bring total obligations to nearly $62 trillion. However, these unfunded obligations are not counted in the national debt."

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I read that their has not been a "real" Federal Budget (a complete budget as required by law) since 1997.

It's always "CR" after "CR"

Apparently that is now business as usual.

17 Trillion dollar deficit, and still spending billions every day.

Unreal. And of course Washington D.C. cooks the books to make it look less bad.

Check this out:
"Unfunded obligations excluded
The U.S. government is obligated under current law to mandatory payments for programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) projects that payouts for these programs will significantly exceed tax revenues over the next 75 years. The Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) payouts already exceed program tax revenues, and social security payouts exceeded payroll taxes in fiscal 2010. These deficits require funding from other tax sources or borrowing. The present value of these deficits or unfunded obligations is an estimated $45.8 trillion. This is the amount that would have had to be set aside in 2009 in order to pay for the unfunded obligations which, under current law, will have to be raised by the government in the future. Approximately $7.7 trillion relates to Social Security, while $38.2 trillion relates to Medicare and Medicaid. In other words, health care programs will require nearly five times more funding than Social Security. Adding this to the national debt and other federal obligations would bring total obligations to nearly $62 trillion. However, these unfunded obligations are not counted in the national debt."

That could be fixed take the cap off ssi holding at 110k but that's not going to happen. You cant cut enough to balance, more rev has to come in.
Its like a family, there isn't enough money coming in. You cut where you can then if its not enough someone has to go get extra job. The deficits started once taxes started being seriously cut and middle class wages went flat.

[RandyRandy]

Thank goodness! I was really worried! The only thing that would make me happier right now is if a magical nuclear warhead surgically annihilated both Houses of Congress and the White House.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I read that their has not been a "real" Federal Budget (a complete budget as required by law) since 1997.

It's always "CR" after "CR"

Apparently that is now business as usual.

17 Trillion dollar deficit, and still spending billions every day.

Unreal. And of course Washington D.C. cooks the books to make it look less bad.

Check this out:
"Unfunded obligations excluded
The U.S. government is obligated under current law to mandatory payments for programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) projects that payouts for these programs will significantly exceed tax revenues over the next 75 years. The Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) payouts already exceed program tax revenues, and social security payouts exceeded payroll taxes in fiscal 2010. These deficits require funding from other tax sources or borrowing. The present value of these deficits or unfunded obligations is an estimated $45.8 trillion. This is the amount that would have had to be set aside in 2009 in order to pay for the unfunded obligations which, under current law, will have to be raised by the government in the future. Approximately $7.7 trillion relates to Social Security, while $38.2 trillion relates to Medicare and Medicaid. In other words, health care programs will require nearly five times more funding than Social Security. Adding this to the national debt and other federal obligations would bring total obligations to nearly $62 trillion. However, these unfunded obligations are not counted in the national debt."

What is saddest to me is that we can't have any real, legitimate talks about seriously reducing the deficit without talking about cutting the military budget. Not by a little, but by a lot. Sadly, the republicans will never do that because war is their wheelhouse and the democrats won't do it because it will give the republicans never ending ammunition during elections.

[bronco67]

Just passed the House....and a lot of Republicans voted against it. There were about 80 Republicans willing to see what happens if we go into default. Mind-bendingly stupid.

[arock10]

144 voted against it. 87 republicans voted for the bill

[keysync]

The country doesn't go "into default" immediately.
The treasure has plenty of money to pay the bills through the end of the month according to a moodys press release I read earlier today.
The "Default scare" is just theatre.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by kane

What is saddest to me is that we can't have any real, legitimate talks about seriously reducing the deficit without talking about cutting the military budget. Not by a little, but by a lot. Sadly, the republicans will never do that because war is their wheelhouse and the democrats won't do it because it will give the republicans never ending ammunition during elections.

The military needs to be cut to the bone...right now.

But having said that...did you read how much money we are in debt for for the "unfunded obligations"?
Holy fuck!

Our country is screwed...and the bureaucrats already know that. That's why they are spending money as fast as they can by giving it to their cronies.

The party is already over. We citizens just haven't realized it yet.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The military needs to be cut to the bone...right now.

But having said that...did you read how much money we are in debt for for the "unfunded obligations"?
Holy fuck!

Our country is screwed...and the bureaucrats already know that. That's why they are spending money as fast as they can by giving it to their cronies.

The party is already over. We citizens just haven't realized it yet.

Ok we cut the military big time. What do u do with all those unemployed soldiers?

[BFT3K]

[BFT3K]

If the Affordable Care Act fails, what do you think will happen next?

Back to allowing Big Insurance to make all of the rules, or Single Payer, allowing the government to make all of the rules, or ????

I know what the Republican/Hertitage Foundation Plan was... it was The Affordable Care Act, which they hate now, since it was implemented by a right-leaning, non-white "Democratic" president, but if it all falls apart, what's next?

[Phoenix]

So we dont need to track our website, emaila nd phone usage now?
NSA is back to tapping everyone?

whew i was getting tired keeping a log

[Relentless]

It's not a loss for them at all. Their districts are gerrymandered.
No matter what 99% of the country thinks, the 1% who live in their districts love this stuff.

That is the problem

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

None of those presidents raised the "Debt Ceiling"

Congress did.

And guess who was in power in both the House and the Senate from the start all the way up until 1994?
That's right!

DEMOCRATS!

Sorry man, you're propaganda failed again.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by tony286

Ok we cut the military big time. What do u do with all those unemployed soldiers?

I don't know Tony. How about we start to build a country that doesn't rely on the giant military industrial complex to put people to "work" (if you think killing people is "work")

Who knows what kinds of things our country could do if all that money and all those people were NOT being used up for the military.

We might actually have a great nation again.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Military spending produces lots of jobs but so does infrastructure spending like on roads, bridges, high speed rail track, communications spending (real high-speed internet 1Gbs+).

Even healthcare spending can provide jobs and benefits society as a whole. However, like military spending the fiscal abuse in its costs is rampant.

There is a place for military spending, but using that spending to often protect our commercial interests in foreign countries is not always to the benefit of our society-at-large.

Military spending was a problem in 2000BC and will be a debate for 3000AD too ... Beating our swords into ploughshares is an elusive utopian dream.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by kane

What is saddest to me is that we can't have any real, legitimate talks about seriously reducing the deficit without talking about cutting the military budget. Not by a little, but by a lot. Sadly, the republicans will never do that because war is their wheelhouse and the democrats won't do it because it will give the republicans never ending ammunition during elections.

unfortunately, you can look at why the military isn't having it's funding cut in a different way.

you can do that by looking at big oil, big pharma, big bio (monsanto), weapons manufacture, etc

Eisenhower warned about it..

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Robbie

...the federal govt. will keep on borrowing and driving up the debt.....

I don't know at what point this become acceptable - it is not. Once you need to borrow money to pay your interest, something is seriously wrong. It is only a matter of time before you go into default. This is insanity.