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-   -   Im in America and I am sitting on the side of the road with a broken leg... (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1122748)

Tom_PM 10-04-2013 07:00 AM
While in the hospital you'll be visited by state workers whose job it is to come give pamphlets with options for the uninsured including state and federal aid if you qualify.

My ambulance ride was $600 by the way and that was 4 and a half years ago. Guess it depends a lot as is to be expected in for-profit business.

tony286 10-04-2013 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilnjscb (Post 19822457)
I can post 1000 threads from around the internet where people not in America have glass sewn into them, wait for months for care, get misdiagnosed, etc.

hundreds of thousands of people travel to the US every year for healthcare.

The quality is high, and the cost is high.

I was in a hospital in the UK. Some poor devil took a crap on the cement floor, and it was still there 24 hours later. One guy in the large communal room we were in had to call his lawyer to get a nurse. Every single medical practitioner I saw was of indian origin. I was asked to pull gauze out of my nose myself and nearly choked. The "physician's assistant" (read cheap ass indian with very little training and a fancy title) said-"I'm glad you were able to get it out, if you had choked you might have been done for" I saw a guy with blood gushing out of his face collapse for lack of blood. Result? Big bloody pool with man in the middle of it. Free hospital looked like an American prison.

After three days of very little care, and medieval hygiene, I switched to a paid hospital. There, the doctors talked about what ballet they'd seen the night before. I had a brief procedure, and was out in two hours.

I'm glad you're proud of your healthcare, but the main reason you have any advances is because of the US. Our hospitals and universities developed nearly all modern procedure. Whenever you want to stop progress in a field, go 100% socialized.

Do poor people deserve healthcare? Yes. But no one has arrived at a perfect solution.
Hundreds of thousands of people arent coming here for medical care. My father got excellent care in the UK.

Bryan G 10-04-2013 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19822410)
clearly the op missed the 18 gazillion other threads about america healthcare being cash and carry.

we get it, you live in a wonderful w [orld of free. wow, yay. you win. yeeh haa. americka sux boo hiss broken leg = life ruined, sued, world suck, yay british football. handegg sucx

how many times do you peeps need to point your finger at shit over the same shit. get over it. i have a hard time understanding why the op sits around in a british apartment worrying about peeps with broken legs on the side of the road in america so much that he has to start a thread about it. nevermind the fact this has been hashed and refucking hashed here for fucking years.
Lmfao

Chill dude, he was just asking a question.

geedub 10-04-2013 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markul (Post 19822429)
So why would anyone NOT have insurance?
I haven't had insurance since I was 19, I turn 28 on Monday. There has been 1 time where I could have benefited from having insurance but was able to pay in payments NO PROBLEM. I had an emergency room visit, night in the hospital, various specialist visits, xrays and pills. You know what's amusing is how cheap shit like percocet is with no insurance. I was able to buy 50 percocets for 25 dollars but I also needed 10 antibiotics and those cost me around 85. :error

In my opinion only some of the system is broken and Obamacare is nothing but another bill I will be forced to pay, in the end insurance companies and politicians will win, not the people.

dyna mo 10-04-2013 07:14 AM
this is what really happens to someone with a serious bone break without insurance in america

i broke my foot and didn't realize it. combined with my pre-existing condition, the broken bone became infected and as my blood went septic, was ambulanced to the er, then hospital for 14 days, the first 6 day were various doctors coming by to try and figure out how much of my foot to cut off.

in fact, they did not know how much they needed to remove when they put me under for the surgery. nor did they really care since they all knew i was uninsured and paying out of pocket.

i woke up to this, ~13% of my foot removed, bone and all, had to use a cane (that i also had to buy) to get around for a while.

total bill to me: over $50k

http://i.imgur.com/Ea22zIS.jpg

ilnjscb 10-04-2013 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19822469)
Hundreds of thousands of people arent coming here for medical care. My father got excellent care in the UK.
What?

"Each year, some 600,000 international patients visit the United States seeking excellence in specialty care?especially in complex or "last resort" cases.

http://www.patientsbeyondborders.com/united-states

Great story about your father, but would you care to post a reliable source to refute the one I have posted?

Tom_PM 10-04-2013 07:16 AM
Warning! The preceding image should not have been viewed by those with a weak stomach.

Tom_PM 10-04-2013 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilnjscb (Post 19822498)
What?

"Each year, some 600,000 international patients visit the United States seeking excellence in specialty care?especially in complex or "last resort" cases.

http://www.patientsbeyondborders.com/united-states

Great story about your father, but would you care to post a reliable source to refute the one I have posted?
This has everything to do with quality doctors and nothing to do with cost of the care. Right?

Markul 10-04-2013 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 19822441)
Pre existing condition.

And that excuse is used to not only not issue policies but more importantly not pay claims to those that are actually insured. Nothing worse than having insurance, paying for it each month then having an insurance company office worker decide you aren't covered.
How would they prove that if you moved to the country when you were, say 42...?


Personally I don't understand why everyone doesn't get free healthcare. Every single (real) study says it's better for everyone. Including the rich that can pay on their own.

MrBottomTooth 10-04-2013 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberSEO (Post 19822396)
:Oh crap Here it's all free. I mean the emergency call, the x-ray, the leg fixing procedure etc. Furthermore, if you'll need a hospitalization it will be free too. In most cases it will be not the best hospital room for several persons, but if you want a singe-person VIP room, you can always pay for it.
Ya, it works the same in Canada. I can't imagine having to worry about paying for stuff like that directly out of your pocket.

But I suppose we are paying for it in other ways. It costs $45 for a case of beer (cans) here, while I can drive across the border and buy one for $20 tax included.

Markul 10-04-2013 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geedub (Post 19822488)
I haven't had insurance since I was 19, I turn 28 on Monday. There has been 1 time where I could have benefited from having insurance but was able to pay in payments NO PROBLEM. I had an emergency room visit, night in the hospital, various specialist visits, xrays and pills. You know what's amusing is how cheap shit like percocet is with no insurance. I was able to buy 50 percocets for 25 dollars but I also needed 10 antibiotics and those cost me around 85. :error

In my opinion only some of the system is broken and Obamacare is nothing but another bill I will be forced to pay, in the end insurance companies and politicians will win, not the people.
I am happy for you, but as you grow older, that will change for sure.

90% of the expenses in our health care system (where it's all free for everyone, except dental/cosmetic stuff) are spent on old people. Sure a bullet would be cheaper, but I kinda like that my daughter has her grandparents around to visit and stuff.

PR_Glen 10-04-2013 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19822466)
umm, did you already forget you came at me? fyi brainiac, you came at me.
sure i did little buddy.. you keep on fighting the big fight!


what's funny is when people in windsor have a serious heart attack or stroke? they drive straight across the border and get treated in detroit because their staff and facilities are miles ahead of ours despite having 3 hospitals in town.

so there is good and bad on both ends really.

dyna mo 10-04-2013 07:36 AM
[QUOTE=PR_Glen;19822520]sure i did little buddy.. you keep on fighting the big fight!


sure thing big boy.



and you keep trying to act like you aren't participating in something you initiated, becasue you are above this.

lolz.

SuckOnThis 10-04-2013 07:52 AM
About 20 years ago one of my best friends was diagnosed with bone cancer when he was 26. He HAD insurance and went through almost a year of hell with surgery, chemo, etc. Then after about 10 months he got a letter from the insurance company telling him that he had reached the cap on the policy and they were no longer covering anything. His parents ended up borrowing money against their house to pay for his continued treatment but that money only lasted a few months. He ended up dying in his parents basement with no medical care whatsoever with the little amount of morphine his parents could pay for. The hospital didnt continue treatment and say pay us when you can, they told him he was out of luck. They will only treat someone enough to stabilize them then they are on their own.

dyna mo 10-04-2013 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan G (Post 19822478)
Lmfao

Chill dude, he was just asking a question.
in hindsight i can see that now and i apologize to the op, i think the way the topic was worded hit close to home for me and i reacted to that.

Markul 10-04-2013 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19822536)
About 20 years ago one of my best friends was diagnosed with bone cancer when he was 26. He HAD insurance and went through almost a year of hell with surgery, chemo, etc. Then after about 10 months he got a letter from the insurance company telling him that he had reached the cap on the policy and they were no longer covering anything. His parents ended up borrowing money against their house to pay for his continued treatment but that money only lasted a few months. He ended up dying in his parents basement with no medical care whatsoever with the little amount of morphine his parents could pay for. The hospital didnt continue treatment and say pay us when you can, they told him he was out of luck. They will only treat someone enough to stabilize them then they are on their own.
That is fucking horrible! Sorry for your friend and his parents. Damn :(

Bryan G 10-04-2013 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19822536)
About 20 years ago one of my best friends was diagnosed with bone cancer when he was 26. He HAD insurance and went through almost a year of hell with surgery, chemo, etc. Then after about 10 months he got a letter from the insurance company telling him that he had reached the cap on the policy and they were no longer covering anything. His parents ended up borrowing money against their house to pay for his continued treatment but that money only lasted a few months. He ended up dying in his parents basement with no medical care whatsoever with the little amount of morphine his parents could pay for. The hospital didnt continue treatment and say pay us when you can, they told him he was out of luck. They will only treat someone enough to stabilize them then they are on their own.
Jesus :Oh crap

crockett 10-04-2013 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markul (Post 19822429)
So why would anyone NOT have insurance?
I'll give you an example.. I've paid about $1500 for my insurance this year. That's just for a single male with no prior health issues and that's fairly cheap.. Add in kids or a wife and many simply can't afford to have insurance, which is why Obamacare came about..

dyna mo 10-04-2013 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19822536)
About 20 years ago one of my best friends was diagnosed with bone cancer when he was 26. He HAD insurance and went through almost a year of hell with surgery, chemo, etc. Then after about 10 months he got a letter from the insurance company telling him that he had reached the cap on the policy and they were no longer covering anything. His parents ended up borrowing money against their house to pay for his continued treatment but that money only lasted a few months. He ended up dying in his parents basement with no medical care whatsoever with the little amount of morphine his parents could pay for. The hospital didnt continue treatment and say pay us when you can, they told him he was out of luck. They will only treat someone enough to stabilize them then they are on their own.
fortunately now there are laws in place that a hospital or er cannot refuse someone with an emergency without insurance coverage.

EonBlue 10-04-2013 08:09 AM
Not everything is free in countries with free medical care like Canada. For example:

http://www.torontoems.ca/main-site/s...chor-Why-49425

Quote:
Why am I receiving a bill for ambulance service; isn?t the service free?
No. Service isn?t free, but the majority of your ambulance bill is covered by the Ontario Health Insurance Plan (O.H.I.P.). When transported in a licensed ambulance, Ontario residents receive a bill only for that portion of the bill that is not covered by your health insurance. This fee is normally $45.00.
How much does ambulance service cost?
Normal land ambulance costs are billed at a rate of $240.00, of which all but $45.00 is covered by your provincial health insurance.
I am covered by O.H.I.P., but received a bill for $240.00. Why?
O.H.I.P. insures ambulance transportation only for those trips that are medically essential. The hospital to which you were transported makes the determination as to whether your ambulance trip was medically necessary. If the doctor decides that you could have made your way to hospital by another means, you will be billed for the full amount of the ambulance bill. This is necessary in order to ensure that the system is not abused, and that the service is available to those who really need it.
I am visiting from the United States, or from another country, and am not insured under O.H.I.P. How will I be billed?
Anyone who is not a resident of Ontario, or is not insured under O.H.I.P., will be billed at the full, uninsured rate of $240.00. Some private health insurance carriers and travel insurance carriers may reimburse you for these costs. It is up to you to discuss this with your insurance carrier.
And nothing is free if you are from another country:

http://canada.usembassy.gov/travelin...formation.html

Quote:
Good medical care is widely available. The Canadian health care system is run on a provincial basis (e.g., the province of Ontario has its own hospital insurance plan; as does each of the other provinces and territories) and is funded by Canadian taxpayers. Tourists and temporary visitors do not qualify for this health care plan and should have their own insurance to cover medical expenses.

SuckOnThis 10-04-2013 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19822550)
fortunately now there are laws in place that a hospital or er cannot refuse someone with an emergency without insurance coverage.
That law existed back then, continuing treatment is not considered an emergency.

DamianJ 10-04-2013 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross (Post 19822449)
Get an E111 card and you get free health care, my wife had one when we lived in the UK, she had to go to hospital one time on our travels and we didn't get charged a cent.
That's just for travel in europe, and they often wriggle out of paying out on it.

dyna mo 10-04-2013 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19822574)
That law existed back then, continuing treatment is not considered an emergency.
in my experience, not challenging you or your friend's experience, i've had life-threating emergencies resulting from a disease that requires continued treatment and i was not denied er or hospital.

in fact, that was the most aggravating part of that foot issue. i went from walking the dog with the television on, to being in a hospital via er, i.e., i was checked-in as a patient to the hospital by the er doctor.
the problem was that i needed to go home and deal with some very important business issues. i was informed by hospital admin that to do that meant i had to check out and if i checked out they were not going to let me check back, i would have to go to another er and get admitted to that er's hospital.

klinton 10-04-2013 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth (Post 19822504)
Ya, it works the same in Canada. I can't imagine having to worry about paying for stuff like that directly out of your pocket.

But I suppose we are paying for it in other ways. It costs $45 for a case of beer (cans) here, while I can drive across the border and buy one for $20 tax included.
here its free too, if you are insured... it costs around 100 usd monthly for full med insurance....and the beer costs around 1 usd for 0,5 l bottle ;-)

Antonio 10-04-2013 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EonBlue (Post 19822553)
Not everything is free in countries with free medical care like Canada.
Actually, there is nothing "free" about any "free health care system." The money has to come from somewhere and it doesn't come out of outer space, the residents pay for it one way or another. Not to mention that the "free health care" systems are often just as open to scams, fraud, and abuse.

Markul 10-04-2013 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crockett (Post 19822548)
I'll give you an example.. I've paid about $1500 for my insurance this year. That's just for a single male with no prior health issues and that's fairly cheap.. Add in kids or a wife and many simply can't afford to have insurance, which is why Obamacare came about..
Is that for all insurances, cause that's cheap? Because I pay around $6000 in insurances every year. Two cars, a house, two kids. Extra coverage for extreme sports. Extra coverage to have the option to go to a privately funded hospital.

And we have healthcare.

EonBlue 10-04-2013 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio (Post 19822631)
Actually, there is nothing "free" about any "free health care system." The money has to come from somewhere and it doesn't come out of outer space, the residents pay for it one way or another. Not to mention that the "free health care" systems are often just as open to scams, fraud, and abuse.
Yes I know that. I was was just using the terminology already in use in the thread. It just has the false appearance of being free at the point of delivery. I was only trying to point out that so called "free" health care here in Canada is anything but free and that any foreigner traveling here without insurance could find that out the hard way.

kane 10-04-2013 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19822536)
About 20 years ago one of my best friends was diagnosed with bone cancer when he was 26. He HAD insurance and went through almost a year of hell with surgery, chemo, etc. Then after about 10 months he got a letter from the insurance company telling him that he had reached the cap on the policy and they were no longer covering anything. His parents ended up borrowing money against their house to pay for his continued treatment but that money only lasted a few months. He ended up dying in his parents basement with no medical care whatsoever with the little amount of morphine his parents could pay for. The hospital didnt continue treatment and say pay us when you can, they told him he was out of luck. They will only treat someone enough to stabilize them then they are on their own.
This is one of the primary problems with out system.

60% of bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills and most of those people have health insurance. Health insurance companies employee people that whose only job is to figure out how to deny your claim and they get bonuses based on the denial rate. Or, like your friend they go over the cap.

Emergency care will cover you for a minute, but for something major like cancer if you can't pay they don't treat you.

Obamacare does get rid of the caps which would have helped in his situation, but I feel it is just step 1 in what will eventually become a nationwide single payer system.

Rochard 10-04-2013 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyTheDog (Post 19822325)
I have no insurance...

What happens - Do they just leave me their until someone takes pity?....

I have always lived in countries with free healthcare - I am just wondering how it works in the US if you are in an emergency situation or have a potentially terminal illness that can be treated...

* I am happily sitting n my sofa in London without a broken leg - Don't worry:upsidedow.....
This happened to us years a few years ago when my kid broke her leg. We went to an emergency care clinic, they did an x-ray and put a cast on her, and it cost all of like $200. We also did a follow up visit which was $120. Then we had to do some physical therapy, six visits at $50 each. All and all it was $620, which is about what it would cost us for two months of healthcare for my kid.

They charge you a lot less if you don't have insurance, and a lot more when you do.

Courtney_Kellfind 10-04-2013 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapass (Post 19822385)
Yes that is accurate. I assume a broken leg will run 1 to 2k depending on how bad it is.
HAHAHAHAHA
I had a MRSA infection in my arm a few years ago. Emergency room bill for being seen, blood work, antibiotics, anti-histamine (I had an allergic reaction the antibiotic), doctor cutting my arm open and draining the carbuncle = $1,600

I'd imagine a broken leg would be more like 10K, easily.

I had an ear infection just a few months ago, nearlly $500 for the ER visit just so they could give me a script for antibiotics.

Sid70 10-05-2013 01:18 AM
Travel insurance?

Sid70 10-05-2013 01:23 AM
Ah, and after reading it all, I can tell, guys, come visit me in Poland, leave the US and see around. It's not heaven but definitely cheaper. Anyone with 5k+ income would feel fairly good in Poland.

So, don't delay, come over.

Sid70 10-05-2013 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberSEO (Post 19822396)
:Oh crap Here it's all free. I mean the emergency call, the x-ray, the leg fixing procedure etc. Furthermore, if you'll need a hospitalization it will be free too. In most cases it will be not the best hospital room for several persons, but if you want a singe-person VIP room, you can always pay for it.
I would confirm that about Ukraine too.
At times, yes, not the best room and not clean sheets but surgical help is free.
You may consider "thanking" a nurse or a surgeon by yourself....

Of course, larger problems like operations on heart, other hi tech ones are not free.

clickhappy 10-05-2013 02:36 AM
I have a friend who got pneumonia and had no insurance. he had to stay in the hospital 2 nights, had no precedures done, just staying over and taking medicine.
I think his bill was $15,000.
He has no insurance and is poor so he applied for some kind of catastrophic disaster health relief and he got it.

clickhappy 10-05-2013 02:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid70 (Post 19823366)
Ah, and after reading it all, I can tell, guys, come visit me in Poland, leave the US and see around. It's not heaven but definitely cheaper. Anyone with 5k+ income would feel fairly good in Poland.

So, don't delay, come over.
Yuck, and live in a strict far-right Catholic society and go back in time 50 years socially? No thanks. Dont they throw feces at gay people there?

Barry-xlovecam 10-05-2013 04:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19822536)
About 20 years ago one of my best friends was diagnosed with bone cancer when he was 26. He HAD insurance and went through almost a year of hell with surgery, chemo, etc. Then after about 10 months he got a letter from the insurance company telling him that he had reached the cap on the policy and they were no longer covering anything. His parents ended up borrowing money against their house to pay for his continued treatment but that money only lasted a few months. He ended up dying in his parents basement with no medical care whatsoever with the little amount of morphine his parents could pay for. The hospital didnt continue treatment and say pay us when you can, they told him he was out of luck. They will only treat someone enough to stabilize them then they are on their own.
^^ this is why the Affordable Healthcare Act passed.

Obamacare is an expensive, and maybe draconian law, but everyone should have access to good medical care in this country -- Obamacare is an egalitarian gesture in a selfish capitalist society.

That being said, it is the capitalist nature that has made the health delivery system in the United States among the best in the world for those privileged enough to afford it.

dyna mo's example of his broken foot is an an extreme one but without immediate access at reasonable cost to medical treatment for normally minor injuries these sort of things can occur instead of being prevented. Mo sorry about your foot.

tony286 10-05-2013 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19822550)
fortunately now there are laws in place that a hospital or er cannot refuse someone with an emergency without insurance coverage.
its to stabilize you no more.

tony286 10-05-2013 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19823134)
This happened to us years a few years ago when my kid broke her leg. We went to an emergency care clinic, they did an x-ray and put a cast on her, and it cost all of like $200. We also did a follow up visit which was $120. Then we had to do some physical therapy, six visits at $50 each. All and all it was $620, which is about what it would cost us for two months of healthcare for my kid.

They charge you a lot less if you don't have insurance, and a lot more when you do.
Actually they dont. I went to an eye doctor for a full eye exam I never had one, this was years ago. I paid $150 cash. I had told my Dad and he asked what did you pay I told him. He said you should of negotiated which I didn't think about. Because my father worked for a large health ins company and he said for that same exam they paid that Dr $35. He did contracts with Doctors.


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