Government shut down is a ton of bullshit.

[blackmonsters]

I mean, who do they think they are fooling?

My server knows the government is up and running.
It pings google every 20 minutes and google is up.

[marlboroack]

lolololol

[OldJeff]

Government is a ton of bullshit.


I fixed that for you

[Minte]

Just wait till it's time to raise the debt limit..again.
This is just the appetizer.

[Relentless]

It's like watching a pack of retards using sparklers battling against a pack of idiots using airhorns....


Noise, flash, no substance and all kinds of stupidity

[Tom_PM]

You kids have fun playing your shutdown game, but be home by the time the streetlights turn on.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Relentless

It's like watching a pack of retards using sparklers battling against a pack of idiots using airhorns....


Noise, flash, no substance and all kinds of stupidity

now that's a great analogy

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Relentless

It's like watching a pack of retards using sparklers battling against a pack of idiots using airhorns....


Noise, flash, no substance and all kinds of stupidity

Yes but their fun and games cost us the tax payers billions.. Dumb ass tea party will likely cost us more with this stunt and the next one, then just funding Obamacare.

[seeandsee]

they just need to make some sort of work for them , and for people to see it

[96ukssob]

just an excuse to draw attention to themselves.

seriously, it's like a bunch of kids fighting at recess over who's turn it is to play funnel ball

[johnnyloadproductions]

Originally Posted by Tom_PM

You kids have fun playing your shutdown game, but be home by the time the streetlights turn on.

I live in a mostly white neighborhood, so things are ok.

[Due]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

I mean, who do they think they are fooling?

My server knows the government is up and running.
It pings google every 20 minutes and google is up.

isn't it primary the services sectors they shut down ? them listening to everything isn't considered a "service"

[Vendzilla]

GOP went from defunding Obamacare to delaying it for a year, like Obama has delayed things for a year to kick in.
It's all about timing and getting elections on the democrats side , all the good stuff kicks in before the next senate and house elections, later the bad stuff kicks in, they want to put that off.
That's why the GOP is happy with a delay of a year, makes the Tea Party happy, some what, and gives some breathing room as they are willing to talk about it, whereas Obama is refusing to talk about it.
Whatever the case, it's going to be who blinks first, the guy that is always saying that the party of no is responsible or just the guy saying no

[Relentless]

People are about to get their ACTUAL INSURANCE BILL....

That will determine everything in the political short term. If people get bills 10 or 20% lower than they were for comparable insurance they will see the Republican attempt to repeal dozens of times as the biggest waste of resources in a generation. If they get bills 10 or 20% higher than they were... or get watered down insurance... they will see the Republicans as having been right to kick and scream so much.

Normally I'd say the guys in charge are smart enough to have done the math and figured out the result ahead of time... but in this instance, it appears they are actually stupid (not just acting stupid) and I'm unsure if they thought things through beyond the showmanship level.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Relentless

People are about to get their ACTUAL INSURANCE BILL....

That will determine everything in the political short term. If people get bills 10 or 20% lower than they were for comparable insurance they will see the Republican attempt to repeal dozens of times as the biggest waste of resources in a generation. If they get bills 10 or 20% higher than they were... or get watered down insurance... they will see the Republicans as having been right to kick and scream so much.

Normally I'd say the guys in charge are smart enough to have done the math and figured out the result ahead of time... but in this instance, it appears they are actually stupid (not just acting stupid) and I'm unsure if they thought things through beyond the showmanship level.

I think it's more than just the price of the insurance, it's the quality and the deductible that's in question

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I think it's more than just the price of the insurance, it's the quality and the deductible that's in question

That's why I said "If people get bills 10 or 20% lower than they were for comparable insurance"

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Relentless

That's why I said "If people get bills 10 or 20% lower than they were for comparable insurance"

I was agreeing with you

You know most will just look at the cost per month though

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Relentless

People are about to get their ACTUAL INSURANCE BILL....

That will determine everything in the political short term. If people get bills 10 or 20% lower than they were for comparable insurance they will see the Republican attempt to repeal dozens of times as the biggest waste of resources in a generation. If they get bills 10 or 20% higher than they were... or get watered down insurance... they will see the Republicans as having been right to kick and scream so much.

Normally I'd say the guys in charge are smart enough to have done the math and figured out the result ahead of time... but in this instance, it appears they are actually stupid (not just acting stupid) and I'm unsure if they thought things through beyond the showmanship level.

So clearly the republicans think people will LIKE obamacare otherwise it would just defeat itself... This is why they fight it so hard

[Tom_PM]

Don't forget all of those who could not get a policy prior to today at ANY cost due to conditions such as being sick and needing medical care they can't afford.

Imagine it. Someone needing care trying to buy insurance from a private company who only makes money for their share holders by denying expensive care is now actually getting approved because of Obamacare. We already know from congressional testimony by insurance company whistle blowers that they were paid to deny claims even from existing customers in good standing. We also know they routinely denied people with pre-existing conditions.

So it's not all about people who can already afford coverage and who are approved for coverage spending more or less money for that coverage. Not all.

[madeofmoney]

Originally Posted by arock10

So clearly the republicans think people will LIKE obamacare otherwise it would just defeat itself... This is why they fight it so hard

Reagan shut the government down 8 separate times. Miss that guy.. especially when the air traffic controllers went on strike, thinking of government job security, and he fired all of them

[Minte]

Originally Posted by Relentless

People are about to get their ACTUAL INSURANCE BILL....

That will determine everything in the political short term. If people get bills 10 or 20% lower than they were for comparable insurance they will see the Republican attempt to repeal dozens of times as the biggest waste of resources in a generation. If they get bills 10 or 20% higher than they were... or get watered down insurance... they will see the Republicans as having been right to kick and scream so much.

Normally I'd say the guys in charge are smart enough to have done the math and figured out the result ahead of time... but in this instance, it appears they are actually stupid (not just acting stupid) and I'm unsure if they thought things through beyond the showmanship level.

I have a copy of our group policy sitting here on my desk. It's up 14% and WPS has in the proposal guaranteed that the 14% is good for the rest of this year and all of next.
That was 14% on top of the existing $1350 per month per family that we paid last contract.
The quality of the insurance stayed exactly the same as what it was.
$1000 deductible and another $2000 for any hospitalization.

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Minte

I have a copy of our group policy sitting here on my desk. It's up 14% and WPS has in the proposal guaranteed that the 14% is good for the rest of this year and all of next.
That was 14% on top of the existing $1350 per month per family that we paid last contract.
The quality of the insurance stayed exactly the same as what it was.
$1000 deductible and another $2000 for any hospitalization.

Health insurance costs SHOULD go up.

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by Minte

I have a copy of our group policy sitting here on my desk. It's up 14% and WPS has in the proposal guaranteed that the 14% is good for the rest of this year and all of next. That was 14% on top of the existing $1350 per month per family that we paid last contract. The quality of the insurance stayed exactly the same as what it was.
$1000 deductible and another $2000 for any hospitalization.

That will vary quite a bit State to State, especially when you factor in that some States 'refused' to accept the program fully and others chose to enact it. In a national political sabre-rattling battle, what will matter is the bill 'most people' get ... not what 'Minte Industries' got as a bill... and the two may end up very different.

Long term it's all stupidity, because we are still heading for single payer with private supplemental insurance... but from a short term political perspective, the bills people get in the next 90-120 days will determine whether this House ploy was a smart tactical movie or a horrible one.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by arock10

Health insurance costs SHOULD go up.- FOR EVERYBODY

I fixed that for you

[Vendzilla]

Most think that the only way to have Obamacare be a success is if young people that don't normally need health insurance sign up for the program, if not, the cost will sky rocket
Right now, 5% of the people account for 55% of the healthcare costs.
http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...ne-factor.aspx

[slapass]

Originally Posted by madeofmoney

Reagan shut the government down 8 separate times. Miss that guy.. especially when the air traffic controllers went on strike, thinking of government job security, and he fired all of them

Yeah, sort of funny to think all of the tax breaks he gave to the top earners continued to increase the deficit to the point where we are today. Then add in that it displaced income to the point that we are at the most concentrated wealth in the history of our nation. Can't get good guys like that back... hahaha

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by Minte

I fixed that for you

Actually insurance costs should go down for everybody.... and they will when catastrophic care and basic coverage is handled by a single payer system that is not profit based. Supplemental insurance will still be a viable private industry and the impact on the cost of health care (the cost of care, not just the cost of premiums) will drop dramatically across the board. Until that point it will be a ton of wrangling to push inflated costs back and forth between the barely rich and the poor by the wealthy.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Due

isn't it primary the services sectors they shut down ? them listening to everything isn't considered a "service"

Yeah, but we've grown so stupid that we think spying on us is a service and we demand it!

[videobunch]

I wonder how much it costs to make those Closed signs?

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by videobunch

I wonder how much it costs to make those Closed signs?

It should cost nothing. They do it so often they should still have the same signs they used last time...

[videobunch]

I wonder how much it costs to make those Closed signs?

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by crockett

Yes but their fun and games cost us the tax payers billions.. Dumb ass tea party will likely cost us more with this stunt and the next one, then just funding Obamacare.

Huh? The Govt. shut down and NOT spending money is "costing taxpayers billions"?

I'd say that if they would go the fuck home 60% of the time and have real jobs and only convened on important govt. business it would be a LOT better and more like what the founding fathers envisioned.

Bloated bureaucracy at "work" every day spending "free" money is what costs us TRILLIONS of dollars.

This shit? It's like somebody held a Govt. shutdown and nobody noticed.

Remember...we were told by Obama that the "sequester" was going to be the end of the world. Now the motherfucker goes on the news bragging about how the deficit is coming down (thanks to the sequester)!

Fucking politicians...

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Yeah, but we've grown so stupid that we think spying on us is a service and we demand it!

Great post! That is the fucking truth.

[JockoHomo]

Originally Posted by Relentless

It's like watching a pack of retards using sparklers battling against a pack of idiots using airhorns....


Noise, flash, no substance and all kinds of stupidity

Well stated and sums up all politics quite well!

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by arock10

Health insurance costs SHOULD go up.

why wouldn't they ?

after all, insurrance companies first and only goal is to ... make profit... the more ... the better

only solution ( adopted by most civilized countries ) is a single payer universal system

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by seeandsee

they just need to make some sort of work for them , and for people to see it

"Go away, I'm busy, I'm working..." Its all a smoke and mirror donkey show without the good bits.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Huh? The Govt. shut down and NOT spending money is "costing taxpayers billions"?

I'd say that if they would go the fuck home 60% of the time and have real jobs and only convened on important govt. business it would be a LOT better and more like what the founding fathers envisioned.

Bloated bureaucracy at "work" every day spending "free" money is what costs us TRILLIONS of dollars.

This shit? It's like somebody held a Govt. shutdown and nobody noticed.

Remember...we were told by Obama that the "sequester" was going to be the end of the world. Now the motherfucker goes on the news bragging about how the deficit is coming down (thanks to the sequester)!

Fucking politicians...

[adendreams]

Originally Posted by Relentless

People are about to get their ACTUAL INSURANCE BILL....

That will determine everything in the political short term. If people get bills 10 or 20% lower than they were for comparable insurance they will see the Republican attempt to repeal dozens of times as the biggest waste of resources in a generation. If they get bills 10 or 20% higher than they were... or get watered down insurance... they will see the Republicans as having been right to kick and scream so much.

Normally I'd say the guys in charge are smart enough to have done the math and figured out the result ahead of time... but in this instance, it appears they are actually stupid (not just acting stupid) and I'm unsure if they thought things through beyond the showmanship level.

I think you are forgetting the millions and millions and millions of people who will be able to get insured for the first time, and all the sick people who will see lifetime caps dissappear, and all the 18-26 year olds who will still be covered under parental plans( instead of no coverage), on and on and on...

This debate wont be won by the tiny fraction of people who see their premiums rise slightly.

And yes you're right this shutdown is just showmanship...the last dying gasps of the once relevant Tea Party.

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by adendreams

I think you are forgetting the millions and millions and millions of people who will be able to get insured for the first time, and all the sick people who will see lifetime caps dissappear, and all the 18-26 year olds who will still be covered under parental plans( instead of no coverage), on and on and on...

I think you are forgetting.... most of those people do not choose to vote

[videobunch]

Sorry hit refresh and it posted it again

[Manfap]

Can the president just sign it off anyway.. veto sort of thing?
Excuse my ignorance of US politics.

[Hattrick]

Originally Posted by slapass

Yeah, sort of funny to think all of the tax breaks he gave to the top earners continued to increase the deficit to the point where we are today. Then add in that it displaced income to the point that we are at the most concentrated wealth in the history of our nation. Can't get good guys like that back... hahaha

Hehehe. Actually having lived in the Reagan years my memory is correct and the facts substantiate that Reagan reversed what were miserable times, as they are now again, in the United States with high taxes and government spending;

"When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than President Obama faced in 2009. Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982, with unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%. At the same time America suffered roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI registering at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years). The Washington establishment at the time argued that this inflation was now endemic to the American economy, and could not be stopped, at least not without a calamitous economic collapse."

"The shocking rise in inflation during the Nixon and Carter years was reversed. Astoundingly, inflation from 1980 was reduced by more than half by 1982, to 6.2%. It was cut in half again for 1983, to 3.2%, never to be heard from again until recently."

"Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989, meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just seven years. The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak. The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990, a larger increase than in any previous decade."

"These economic policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history. The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it. This set a new record for the longest peacetime expansion ever, the previous high in peacetime being 58 months." <----Democrats at work again

"Deregulation, which saved consumers an estimated $100 billion per year in lower prices. Reagan?s first executive order, in fact, eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%."

"Spending reductions, including a $31 billion cut in spending in 1981, close to 5% of the federal budget then, or the equivalent of about $175 billion in spending cuts for the year today. In constant dollars, nondefense discretionary spending declined by 14.4% from 1981 to 1982, and by 16.8% from 1981 to 1983. Moreover, in constant dollars, this nondefense discretionary spending never returned to its 1981 level for the rest of Reagan?s two terms! Even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War without firing a shot, total federal spending declined from a high of 23.5% of GDP in 1983 to 21.3% in 1988 and 21.2% in 1989. That?s a real reduction in the size of government relative to the economy of 10%."

"Cut tax rates to restore incentives for economic growth, which was implemented first with a reduction in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates for everyone. The 1986 tax reform then reduced tax rates further, leaving just two rates, 28% and 15%."

forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/05/05/reaganomics-vs-obamanomics-facts-and-figures/

Arguing that his tax cuts caused the problems of today is simple ludicrous. It was his increase in government spending driven by a Democratic congress and subsequent spending increases by both parties that have us where we are at. Neither party has taken the courage to revamp entitlement programs; which combined have unfunded liabilities that exceed the nation's entire private wealth.

Under Reagan government spending as a percentage of GDP actually increased;

"In 1980, Jimmy Caner's last year as president, the federal government spent a whopping 27.9% of "national income" (an obnoxious term for the private wealth produced by the American people). Reagan assaulted the free-spending Carter administration throughout his campaign in 1980. So how did the Reagan administration do? At the end of the first quarter of 1988, federal spending accounted for 28.7% of "national income."

mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

What does this really teach us? That when you cut taxes and increase the risk reward for investments, jobs are created and together with enough economic growth, disposable income also grows and standard of living increases. Yet when government spends more money than tax receipts allow for, deficits are created which lower the value of the dollar and increase costs of commodities; such as food and gas, leading to less disposable income and lower quality of life.

The problem is not lower taxes. The problem is government spending most of which stems from the social entitlement programs Americans now value over individual prosperity. It is a sad comment that Americans would rather opt-for what are really very measly social programs and massive government regulation than living their life with ample economic opportunity that can be realized with individual effort and a sense of self-responsibility over government nurturing.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Hattrick

Hehehe. Actually having lived in the Reagan years my memory is correct and the facts substantiate that Reagan reversed what were miserable times, as they are now again, in the United States with high taxes and government spending;

"When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than President Obama faced in 2009. Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982, with unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%. At the same time America suffered roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI registering at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years). The Washington establishment at the time argued that this inflation was now endemic to the American economy, and could not be stopped, at least not without a calamitous economic collapse."

"The shocking rise in inflation during the Nixon and Carter years was reversed. Astoundingly, inflation from 1980 was reduced by more than half by 1982, to 6.2%. It was cut in half again for 1983, to 3.2%, never to be heard from again until recently."

"Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989, meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just seven years. The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak. The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990, a larger increase than in any previous decade."

"These economic policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history. The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it. This set a new record for the longest peacetime expansion ever, the previous high in peacetime being 58 months." <----Democrats at work again

"Deregulation, which saved consumers an estimated $100 billion per year in lower prices. Reagan?s first executive order, in fact, eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%."

"Spending reductions, including a $31 billion cut in spending in 1981, close to 5% of the federal budget then, or the equivalent of about $175 billion in spending cuts for the year today. In constant dollars, nondefense discretionary spending declined by 14.4% from 1981 to 1982, and by 16.8% from 1981 to 1983. Moreover, in constant dollars, this nondefense discretionary spending never returned to its 1981 level for the rest of Reagan?s two terms! Even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War without firing a shot, total federal spending declined from a high of 23.5% of GDP in 1983 to 21.3% in 1988 and 21.2% in 1989. That?s a real reduction in the size of government relative to the economy of 10%."

"Cut tax rates to restore incentives for economic growth, which was implemented first with a reduction in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates for everyone. The 1986 tax reform then reduced tax rates further, leaving just two rates, 28% and 15%."

forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/05/05/reaganomics-vs-obamanomics-facts-and-figures/

Arguing that his tax cuts caused the problems of today is simple ludicrous. It was his increase in government spending driven by a Democratic congress and subsequent spending increases by both parties that have us where we are at. Neither party has taken the courage to revamp entitlement programs; which combined have unfunded liabilities that exceed the nation's entire private wealth.

Under Reagan government spending as a percentage of GDP actually increased;

"In 1980, Jimmy Caner's last year as president, the federal government spent a whopping 27.9% of "national income" (an obnoxious term for the private wealth produced by the American people). Reagan assaulted the free-spending Carter administration throughout his campaign in 1980. So how did the Reagan administration do? At the end of the first quarter of 1988, federal spending accounted for 28.7% of "national income."

mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

What does this really teach us? That when you cut taxes and increase the risk reward for investments, jobs are created and together with enough economic growth, disposable income also grows and standard of living increases. Yet when government spends more money than tax receipts allow for, deficits are created which lower the value of the dollar and increase costs of commodities; such as food and gas, leading to less disposable income and lower quality of life.

The problem is not lower taxes. The problem is government spending most of which stems from the social entitlement programs Americans now value over individual prosperity. It is a sad comment that Americans would rather opt-for what are really very measly social programs and massive government regulation than living their life with ample economic opportunity that can be realized with individual effort and a sense of self-responsibility over government nurturing.

so romney gets elected, and turns the economy around almost immediately!

makes you wonder what the unpopular jimmy carter was doing all that time

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by Manfap

Can the president just sign it off anyway.. veto sort of thing?
Excuse my ignorance of US politics.

Yes, via a 'signing statement' he could make the argument... which might lead to the House losing it's mind but the Senate would back him and the Supreme Court is unlikely to reject that notion. The problem is it would set a precedent more dangerous than the shutdown. From a purely political viewpoint, if they have done the math and know it will be favorable for most Americans... the smart move is the claim the House is holding the country hostage and then shame them when the results are known to the average joe opening his insurance bill.

It is not statesmanship (on either side), it's a bad reality television show where Americans get what we deserve for falling asleep at the switch - letting zealots, criminals and retards infest our government.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Relentless

People are about to get their ACTUAL INSURANCE BILL....

That will determine everything in the political short term. If people get bills 10 or 20% lower than they were for comparable insurance they will see the Republican attempt to repeal dozens of times as the biggest waste of resources in a generation. If they get bills 10 or 20% higher than they were... or get watered down insurance... they will see the Republicans as having been right to kick and scream so much.

Normally I'd say the guys in charge are smart enough to have done the math and figured out the result ahead of time... but in this instance, it appears they are actually stupid (not just acting stupid) and I'm unsure if they thought things through beyond the showmanship level.

I dunno why you think it's still a big mystery.. The prices have already been released for more than enough markets to get an idea as to what to expect.. The prices are lower... The only people still questioning the prices are the retards on the right that are still trying to spread false information.

[Captain Kawaii]

Congressional Bills are written by lobbyists. Congress and Senate have admitted this numerous times. They know fuck all about the nuts and bolts of it.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by crockett

I dunno why you think it's still a big mystery.. The prices have already been released for more than enough markets to get an idea as to what to expect.. The prices are lower... The only people still questioning the prices are the retards on the right that are still trying to spread false information.

The other people that are questioning it is the people that already have their bills. The premium is not lower. It's 14% higher. Do you understand that's an increase... not a reduction.