Nope, there has never been a pornographer that has run afoul of the law or gone to prison for making movies with themes that did not include pain or restraint. Go right ahead you have nothing to worry about!

Yes this is just the situation
The guy is a fucking punter and he has some wet dream about being a pornstar/producer. What will happen is he is will upload his home made hooker porn and find out that a camera and a computer will not bring him wealth or pad his ego. So he will go back to his escort review forums and show off to the other punters what a big stud he is.

And it is on the escort review forums that I am hoping his adventure comes to a crashing end. Because we all know that many of these girls have pimp boyfriends, etc. So when the girl's phone starts ringing at 4am from another punter looking to do the same shit... Some angry pimp boyfriend is going to show up.

On that note,
I am already talking to a couple of webdesigners. Porn has not had anything new in a very long time and Bunting punters should sell real big.

Morning Fitz. I've read through the latest responses and though not much more clarity exists from the previous night, I would like to comment on yours.

Remember, we don't even know that the starlet would find the release of this material objectionable. Perhaps she never looked better.

But assuming she saw the video and her reaction was "ewwwwwwwww! I can't believe people are going to watch me fuck that old fat pimply little geek!" we can also assume her outrage might turn into an effort at restitution.

Would I consider such a venture worthwhile if my personal assets were vulnerable? No way.

Would I let her bankrupt a corporation I'll be setting up, whose sole business interest is to monetize material I've shot on clips4sale? Yes, I would do that.

Do you or any of the other (mostly) helpful folks around here have insight into whether I'd only be risking the latter, but not the former?

I know I could go read a book, so tempting as that answer or some variation on it might be for a select few, you're liberated from having to say it.

You have five lousy vanilla sex videos. You're not going to make more than a few shekels selling on Clips4Sale anyway. All this discussion, besides painting you as a reckless idiot, is a complete waste of time.

Seriously...and I mean this as kindly as I can POSSIBLY say this:
You clearly ain't gettin' it.

So, go do whatever the hell you want, since you are not taking any advice, whatsoever, for any of us. What you risk, without having any legit documentation, is being sued by the chicks you shot...potentially issues with the government...and none of that is worth it, because {read my lips} YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY LEGIT DOCUMENTS FOR WHATEVER YOU SHOT.

I don't disagree with your assessment Jim. There is an ancillary benefit, however, and that is that would bring traffic to my store. And, truth be told, I'm happy with the way the videos turned out and would like the erotica-consuming public to have a chance to enjoy them as well.

Thanks as always for your perspective.

Fitzy -- Again, I do appreciate your taking the time to share your concerns with me.

Perhaps this analogy might make what I'm striving to understand more apparent:

If you get in the way of a runner on his way from first to second you will be called for obstruction close to 100% of the time.

On a short single to leftcenter, if you block the plate before you have the ball with a runner coming home, you will be called for obstruction 0% of the time.

The rule, as written, should apply equally to each situation.

I'm getting replies here which focus entirely on the first baserunning example, but which don't account for the second one.

I do not question the credentials of anyone who is taking the time to engage me on this topic. Indeed your admonitions are obviously offered in a spirit of generosity. At the same time, however, I would hope that one among you might just spend a little more time by citing a case analogous to mine which ended up with a criminal prosecution, or with the starlet sueing for damages.

On that last point, it's worth positing the question: Would a starlet even bring such a case in the first place when it would be impossible to get around the fact that she illegally prostituted herself in order to provide the content of the production she's seeking damages for?

Go pay for a fucking lawyer.
If you can spend money on film equipment, editing software and hookers then you can spend a couple bucks on a lawyer.

Otherwise go to hell because everyone here has made it all very clear what you should be doing and what the possible ramifications are legally (and perhaps as I pointed out physically as well) All you are doing right now is looking for an answear that is most to your liking. And it does NOT work like that.

So if you want to take a chance and be an asshole then shut up and go for it.

Because in the end you will either
* Get away with it...
* Or get caught and prosecuted....
* Or get your knees busted by some pimp boyfriend thereby allowing some greasy pornographer lurking in the dark (such as myself) to dream up ways to make a dollar off your back.

Sage advice NIMBY. And don't for a moment don't think I am ungrateful for your laying out the ramifications (particularly the last one, which I would certainly not have given the weight to that you are.)

I do intend to seek legal counsel. But in my part of the country it is unheard of to find someone specializing in Adult Entertainment law. And unfortunately my inquiry with a renowned specialist on the west coast yielded an unpromising "can't consult with you if you are outside of California" response.

I think my best bet is to try to hook up with the counsel representing the local strip clubs here and try to at least get a few of my more general legal questions answered.

Once again, thanks for your heartfelt response.

Oh Bull
 

I rarely post here, but I just can't resist:

OP - instead of beating about the bush why don't you just post:

"I have this content, I have no docs. I am breaking the original verbal contract with them cause it's too much of a pain to get new/ they will probably be pissed. I am doing it anyway, I give two fucks about industry standards or morals - so just give me to worse case scenario or LOOPHOLE. Or tell me how to do it with the least case of bust. I know it's scumbaggy so I won't try to talk all business like to make you think I'm not."

See how easy that is? Oh, and I won't respond to you - not sure why others are actually invested in this. Google is your friend for legal cases you need to find out how much trouble you can get into, and the rest - get a lawyer - oh wait you can't cause he would tell you the LAW. Because in reality, your escort porn won't make enough to float that. Unless of course, you just plan on running that scam with other gals.... *cough cough*..........but you wouldn't, right?

And wtf is that about "considered" answers?

This whole thing is scuzzy. Your not clueless, your scuzzy.

fiddy too many posts on this dead horse topic...
I just told you {earlier in this thread} that I had a girl wanting to do that, and when I sent her copies of my cut and dry model releases, in order for her to show whoever she was threatening to have represent her....she stopped with her notions of the whole procedure...BECAUSE I HAD LEGIT, LEGAL, RELEASES which would have meant she would be wasting her time, money and effort in trying to go to court over said situation.

I can't understand why you are beating a dead horse here...
YOU NEED TO HAVE THE MODEL RELEASES, 2257 DOCUMENTS, and IDs, to prevent such things..

I think you just want to 'wing it and hope that you don't get caught', and are trying to find affirmation that one, or some of us, think that "you'll be okay..."...
And THAT is foolish!

This industry has been fucked over and raped by both fans and punters. So do not kid youself, something is going to give sooner or later. Anyone of the big players that have been in this industry since the early 1990s or before are keeping their distance. And most of the small players that have been around just as long are staying hidden.

Men like you are becoming an ecosystem. Another problem that we have to deal with. Because you develop shit cheap illegal porn that brings attention and heat on everyone still trying to make a few pennies. You will NOT make any friends amongst pornographers and I speculate that you will make even a few enemies amoungst some of the hookers and escort agencies. Because I bet that do not want some sort of porn tube attention and the possiblity of local law enforcement using those videos as evidence or at the very least they're going to find it harder to find girls to work for them because tend to like their privacy.

Therefore believe as you want because the violent responses are just around the corner. The porn industry has never experienced the type of tensions that it is experiencing today, not even when Zaffarano was alive was every so ready to cut out another man's balls for a buck. And perhaps in your situation the violence has already happened because I am certain a lot of punters that are just as unwilling to go to the police or sue for the same reasons a hooker would not either.

The first thing I am going to do is send clips4sale a link to this discussion. I think perhaps it is time that someone start raising some questions about legality of the porn on all these open to the public sites.

Thank you for your input Mr. Money.

I do appreciate the ethical quandary I am asking all of you to step into as I solicit your advice on something that can indeed be viewed as scumbaggery -- or at the very least douchebaggery.

To the extent that there are exonerating circumstances, I would point to my respecting the wishes of the one starlet who did respond to my inquiry about an ex post facto model release. The reality that the rest ignored my request gives me a little moral latitude I think.

And, of course, the starlets are not going to be revealed in a light that's appreciatively different than depictions a hundred times over of a similar bent.

Thanks for nudging me toward Google and legal counsel. I've investigated both to little avail thus far, which is why I thought this forum would be a possible source of information that was tangible enough to be helpful.

While the advice has been received in the warm spirit in which it has been extended, I still feel frustrated by the lack of parallel circumstances with resolutions I can interpret as green for go or stop right there.

It's my hope that perhaps there are occasional visitors to the forum who might not have read our exchanges yet and who might bring something more concrete and less hypothetical to the discussion -- though I do value the hypothetical greatly as well.

Good work NIMBY. And intelligently related. Your contributions are becoming increasingly thought-provoking and worthy of strong consideration.

Thanks for your persistence and sensitivity in trying to steer me away from what you see as a perilous course. You're right. I didn't reflect on your anecdote sufficiently. I'm glad you afforded me a second chance.

Cool...but, to be clear...it IS a perilous course, it isn't my perception of what is perilous.
How you choose to "steer", is up to you.

Distinction well taken.

I'm not sure whether any of the following will mitigate the caution being advised, but my most incendiary footage was shot with a Czech Republican who was vacationing in the States.

Again, as with all the others, an accord was reached that I may market on eBay infrequently. The discussion about releasing the material publicly began and ended there. There was no implication that more intensive marketing would be acceptable, nor was there any that this was the maximal exposure the starlet would be comfortable with.

As with all the other women, I sent her an email requesting her permission to post to clips4sale which went unresponded to.

If anyone would like to answer the following question, I would be in your debt.

Does her foreign, overseas citizenship (no dual citizenship; it was her maiden visit to the U.S.) provide a layer of legal inoculation that would not exist with fellow countrywomen?

It would be easier to answer, if you'd speak English and not Lawyer...
BUT....the rules are the rules, and the laws are the laws...regardless of where the hell she is from.

:2 cents:

for real, even if she was from the mountains of Waziristan the point is that you're in the US, you're held to the 2257 law. The nationality of the model has no relevance to the 2257 issue. The fact that there's a chance these chicas may not want their material on c4s puts you at even more risk, in that if they or someone they know found the material and were upset by it, all they'd have to do is report you for publishing porn without 2257 records- if they're established in the industry chances are they're familiar with US 2257.

I'm trying to imagine what old footage you've barely used up til now would be worth this kind of risk. As was noted elsewhere in the thread you're putting yourself at risk even uploading the videos on ebay, for reasons that have nothing to do with your oral agreement with these models (the huge issue of you having no 2257 docs). Why not just hire some new talent who can provide releases and 2257 docs, create scenes that will do really well on c4s (straight sex doesn't do very well there, creativity and fetish does) and proceed without risk?

C4S doesn't require 2257 docs to be sent to them, the onus is on you to keep those records yourself. You have no protection if one of the models used in the footage or anyone else decides to report you, and because the laws are relatively new you probably won't know what to expect in terms of tangible consequences until you're caught. I'd bet the legal fees alone would wipe out your c4s earnings many times over though.

I can't imagine any old footage being worth this risk.

^^^^^^^^ THIS
There are only SO many different ways to give you advice, saratoga120...take at least one of them...and save yourself a fucking headache.

This guy is freakin' killing me.

The best answer here was to get a lawyer.
When the lawyer tells you it's NOT OK (Illegal or will get you sued etc...) to go ahead and try to monetize the content by selling it on ebay or whatever without the proper documentation.
Go find a different lawyer 'till you get one that says it's OK.

Don't take the free/good advice of folks on this board.

Yeah...why SHOULD he take OUR advice (that he asked for...)??
</sarcasm>

Thanks again to everyone taking the time to offer me their considered guidance.

At this point, since the issue was brought up, some more disclosure. The footage does combine porno starlets having sex and a very major fetish, which has a devout, fanatical following. I won't exactly reveal it other than to say the site Southern Charms would probably have about 20-30% less content if this activity were deemed illegal.

So, the stuff is a goldmine. I post it regularly on a board that caters to this fetish, though only vidcaps to protect the viability of the original source material.

If we could veer away for the moment from the issue of restitution based on the absence of model releases toward the theoretical possibility of a vindictive reaction regarding the lack of 2257 paper work, might such an action by the starlet to contact law enforcement have legs?

That is, what would be the government's interest in following up on such a complaint? Would it be motivated to do so solely on obtaining information that such material was commercialized without proper documentation? Or would it need to conclude that the material was obscene in some way which runs afoul of community indecency standards?

Lastly, a topic I brought up midway through the thread hasn't been commented on yet and if anyone has any relevant opinions I'd be happy to hear them. Rather than spell it out again (I know you're all weary of my repeating myself as is), please do a search on the first page of this thread for the term en banc and comment on whether this effectively renders the 2257 statute unenforceable.

Thanks again for your time and insight. You've all been incredibly helpful.

A single man in a swinger's club sucks up less and takes NO for an answer easier than this guy.

This guy is a fucking idiot. I already made the comment once about guys like him trying to be big shots on hooker review forums. He does not care about this industry or really making a dollar. What he wants is to go play big shot in the forms. He has confirmed and admited to it with this comment : Beyond all doubt he is proof why in the old days the punter was told to shut the fuck up and hold his cock and nothing else. And if he tried to hold anything else he would would find out what it is like to be a baseball.

I really wish it was 1972 still.



PS. screen caps are already breaking the law. Perhaps we should search for the hosting company of the hooker fetish forum he posts on.

One down, 19 to go. Orson Bean?

This might actually help me get to the heart of the matter, if you'll share your thinking.

Ok. You find the forum in question. You find the posts I refer to. You pump up your big fat rat chest and scamper to your local police precinct. That much we've both established.

But then what?

What do you expect -- from your vast experience in this area -- the police to do? And more important, why do you expect them to do it?

You've got the puck. Skate with it.