heres a thought why porn shooters are not working

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • CIVMatt
    Amateur Pimpin
    • Aug 2004
    • 13075

    #101
    Originally posted by Jay-Rock
    Girls rates in LA are from $700-$1000 for BG scenes if they are hot. It takes about 3 hours to shoot a hardcore scene with setup, wardrobe, video, & stills. Good male talent is from $300-$700 depending on the quality of your stud. (My boy Chris Strokes makes $700 a scene and shoots 5-7 days a week for Bang Bros and other big companies that pay his rate) + $300 for 3 hours at a decent location.

    So to shoot a high quality in LA cost anywhere from $1300-$2000 depending on how cheap of talent you use (you get what you pay for)

    Lets say the shooter only profits $300 on the shoot thats $100 an hour
    10% of the profit goes to CA state income taxes
    20 % to the IRS
    That brings it to $210 profit. You can make that waiting fucking tables in LA and that won't afford you any decent equipment with the cost of living out there.

    Even at $100 an hour you just risked being sued for STIs and even prosecuted for obesenity laws. You give up your regular friends, family, and go under the social radar to be a pornographer.

    Its not at all worth it even at $100 an hour to be shooting hardcore porn in LA. Fuck all the idiots who think otherwise. The company I was working for wanted me to work cheaper since there are guys in LA that will shoot just to be around pussy. When you can make a lot more shooting mainstream what is the point? It use to be a lot more lucrative than it is now and next time you question someone's rate ask them to break down the costs. Most people just don't get it as a lot of morons in this thread. There isn't much money left in porn unless you are shooting for the companies that actually pay. A lot of companies that want cheap content will fail when you get what you pay for in this industry. I use to make as much as the models as a shooting but for me to have to cut that in half and demote myself to less than I made shooting mainstream before porn is just ridiculous. A lot of the producers that will shoot for nothing are mopes that went and bought a camera from Best Buy and call themselves producers. Those type of shooters will only make you look bad to the agents and they wont send you the top girls. On top of that these type of producers will be the shady types and can lead to your company ending up in a courtroom soon.

    I thought I was doing well in porn for a while in LA but even when I was getting the rate I wanted most of it went to taxes & equipment just to keep up with technology. Once I had spent tons of equipment to help develop artistic shooting operations for a major company I was shit on and replaced by a crew that I trained myself. I was told they would be shooting in another region so I was to train them but in fact they took over my whole shooting operation. They even stole my production assistants/makeup artists.
    GD Good post
    Make easy money with Webcams

    Comment

    • Grapesoda
      So Fucking Banned
      • Jul 2003
      • 46238

      #102
      reality check: you guys are saying it takes 'x' to shoot 'y', fair enough. the reality is 95% of clients can't tell shit from beans about quality.

      if you think I'm joking scan the image content here at GFY.. crap that I couldn't even sell: fuck! whoa! that's hot! she's so hot I would suck her daddy's dick!!! blah blah blah....

      and the reverse is also true. girls I know for a fact that will convert and retain: what a skank! ugly whore! blah blah blah...

      maybe there is a reason BESIDES the tubes sites are failing.... just sayin'... you know?

      Comment

      • mamaliga
        la gente está muy loca
        • Mar 2011
        • 1323

        #103
        theres so much FAIL

        Comment

        • ezgirl
          Confirmed User
          • Jun 2005
          • 278

          #104
          Originally posted by Grapesoda
          reality check: you guys are saying it takes 'x' to shoot 'y', fair enough. the reality is 95% of clients can't tell shit from beans about quality.

          if you think I'm joking scan the image content here at GFY.. crap that I couldn't even sell: fuck! whoa! that's hot! she's so hot I would suck her daddy's dick!!! blah blah blah....

          and the reverse is also true. girls I know for a fact that will convert and retain: what a skank! ugly whore! blah blah blah...

          maybe there is a reason BESIDES the tubes sites are failing.... just sayin'... you know?
          Yes, yes, yes. Seems they like girls who look like they are too young or gals with crows feet around their eyes, too much makeup, fake tits and have that hard look in their eyes that makes you wonder if there is a dick tucked between their legs.

          This has been a most interesting thread.
          E-mail: ezgirlproducer at yahoo dot com

          Comment

          • SplatterMaster
            Confirmed User
            • Jan 2012
            • 790

            #105
            Originally posted by Grapesoda
            the reality is 95% of clients can't tell shit from beans about quality.
            QFT. And believe it or not the end user doesn't care either. Most would rather have amateur self shot type stuff IMO. Reality TV...

            Comment

            • Grapesoda
              So Fucking Banned
              • Jul 2003
              • 46238

              #106
              Originally posted by SplatterMaster
              QFT. And believe it or not the end user doesn't care either. Most would rather have amateur self shot type stuff IMO. Reality TV...
              yup... my thinking as well... I shoot pro-am and some guys complain it's too good...

              Comment

              • marcop
                Confirmed User
                • Nov 2005
                • 4150

                #107
                Originally posted by Grapesoda
                yup... my thinking as well... I shoot pro-am and some guys complain it's too good...
                To paraphrase Grapesoda: The difference between amateur content and pro-am content? Pro-am content is in focus.

                Comment

                • OldJeff
                  Big Fucking hahahaha
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 2489

                  #108
                  Here is a thought, because content is now, always has been, and always will be the lowest common denominator of the business
                  "As pornographers we must act responsibly! ;))"- Nickatilynx

                  I might be Old and Tired, but at least I don't support a whiney cunt

                  Comment

                  • Grapesoda
                    So Fucking Banned
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 46238

                    #109
                    Originally posted by marcop
                    To paraphrase Grapesoda: The difference between amateur content and pro-am content? Pro-am content is in focus.

                    Comment

                    • Grapesoda
                      So Fucking Banned
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 46238

                      #110
                      Originally posted by OldJeff
                      Here is a thought, because content is now, always has been, and always will be the lowest common denominator of the business
                      I'd say BG teen is the lowest common denominator Jeff

                      Comment

                      • Bladewire
                        StraightBro
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 56228

                        #111
                        Just a quick thanks to such open honestly and clean debate it this thread. As a content producer & site owner in this industry for 14 years, and now going through a business growth phase, I really appreciate it.

                        Observing the differing viewpoint from so many aspects of the industry in this thread will help me be more knowledgeable about where others are coming from and what I can do to make the best business deals for everyone involved. Thanks again


                        Skype: CallTomNow

                        Comment

                        • DWB
                          Registered User
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 31779

                          #112
                          Originally posted by OldJeff
                          Here is a thought, because content is now, always has been, and always will be the lowest common denominator of the business
                          Yet without it, there is no porn business.

                          Comment

                          • JustDaveXxx
                            I AM JUSTDAVE !
                            • Feb 2005
                            • 4111

                            #113
                            Originally posted by Squirtit
                            Just a quick thanks to such open honestly and clean debate it this thread. As a content producer & site owner in this industry for 14 years, and now going through a business growth phase, I really appreciate it.

                            Observing the differing viewpoint from so many aspects of the industry in this thread will help me be more knowledgeable about where others are coming from and what I can do to make the best business deals for everyone involved. Thanks again
                            Everyone here pretty much knows each other in one way or another. We all pretty much get a long and have a mutual respect for one another.


                            Its not about who's better than who, its about being a straight up honest business person. We are all good, just different stylistically.


                            Im always around to help others and answer questions to help them be the best shooter that they can be.


                            Just Dave
                            Last edited by JustDaveXxx; 09-09-2013, 03:54 PM.


                            Smut Peddler Productions.com
                            ICQ #378-696-435 / / Skype: JustDaveXxx
                            "We shoot custom, exclusive content your way"

                            Comment

                            • Dirty D
                              Confirmed User
                              • May 2002
                              • 4044

                              #114
                              Great Thread -

                              Dirty D - ICQ #1326843 - $1 Million Dollars of Bonus Money - 8,000+ FHG!
                              Glory Hole Girlz - Crack Whore Confessions - Tampa Bukkake - Slut Wife Training - Fuck a Fan
                              Electricity Play - Porn Video Drive - Theater Sluts - Skunk Riley - Ukraine Amateurs - Strapon Sessions

                              Comment

                              • American Psycho
                                Confirmed User
                                • Feb 2009
                                • 3068

                                #115
                                Originally posted by CIVMatt
                                GD Good post

                                Good post? its totally innacurate.

                                I know plenty of guys shooting content that book girls for TWO scenes .... a hj and a solo for $500
                                from the main agencies.

                                His math doesn't add up

                                that's the kind of answer you give someone who's hiring u to produce content and has no idea what's going on or just doesn't care about budgets
                                Last edited by American Psycho; 09-09-2013, 05:16 PM.

                                Comment

                                • Grapesoda
                                  So Fucking Banned
                                  • Jul 2003
                                  • 46238

                                  #116
                                  Originally posted by American Psycho
                                  Good post? its totally innacurate.

                                  I know plenty of guys shooting content that book girls for TWO scenes .... a hj and a solo for $500
                                  from the main agencies.

                                  His math doesn't add up

                                  that's the kind of answer you give someone who's hiring u to produce content and has no idea what's going on or just doesn't care about budgets
                                  if you're paying $500 for a solo vid and a HJ... well...

                                  Comment

                                  • Grapesoda
                                    So Fucking Banned
                                    • Jul 2003
                                    • 46238

                                    #117
                                    Originally posted by JustDaveXxx
                                    Everyone here pretty much knows each other in one way or another. We all pretty much get a long and have a mutual respect for one another.


                                    Its not about who's better than who, its about being a straight up honest business person. We are all good, just different stylistically.


                                    Im always around to help others and answer questions to help them be the best shooter that they can be.


                                    Just Dave
                                    yes we all work in out respective areas and do fine... good info here

                                    Comment

                                    • American Psycho
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Feb 2009
                                      • 3068

                                      #118
                                      Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                      if you're paying $500 for a solo vid and a HJ... well...
                                      Well? Pls continue. I can't read braile "..."

                                      Furthermore i spoke w jay a while back and he quoted that price for a solo only as he just outlined for bg.

                                      People are free to charge what they feel they deserve.
                                      Problem with that is other need to be ready to pay it.
                                      Last edited by American Psycho; 09-09-2013, 05:37 PM.

                                      Comment

                                      • American Psycho
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Feb 2009
                                        • 3068

                                        #119
                                        500 is the models rate not total.

                                        Point is you can shoot more than 1 scene , unless of course that's too low brow
                                        Last edited by American Psycho; 09-09-2013, 05:44 PM.

                                        Comment

                                        • fitzmulti
                                          I Like Depth Of Field!
                                          • Jan 2003
                                          • 14861

                                          #120
                                          Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                          if you're paying $500 for a solo vid and a HJ... well...


                                          www.SexyGirlsCash.com


                                          CONTACT // FITZMULTI AT GMAIL.COM //
                                          {Please include a message so I know you are from GFY! I get too many spam "add requests"!}

                                          Comment

                                          • fitzmulti
                                            I Like Depth Of Field!
                                            • Jan 2003
                                            • 14861

                                            #121
                                            Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                            if you're paying $500 for a solo vid and a HJ... well...
                                            Originally posted by American Psycho
                                            Well? Pls continue. I can't read braile "..."

                                            Furthermore i spoke w jay a while back and he quoted that price for a solo only as he just outlined for bg.

                                            People are free to charge what they feel they deserve.
                                            Problem with that is other need to be ready to pay it.
                                            I read that as paying the TALENT $500 for HJ and a solo....
                                            Not someone to shoot it and hire the talent inclusive of that same $500...
                                            Last edited by fitzmulti; 09-09-2013, 05:46 PM.


                                            www.SexyGirlsCash.com


                                            CONTACT // FITZMULTI AT GMAIL.COM //
                                            {Please include a message so I know you are from GFY! I get too many spam "add requests"!}

                                            Comment

                                            • Grapesoda
                                              So Fucking Banned
                                              • Jul 2003
                                              • 46238

                                              #122
                                              Originally posted by fitzmulti
                                              I read that as paying the TALENT $500 for HJ and a solo....
                                              Not someone to shoot it and hire the talent inclusive of that same $500...
                                              and if you can only figure out to shoot a solo and a HJ for $500, well.... back to the drawing board for sure... mr psycho, pretty sure you are clueless

                                              Comment

                                              • Barefootsies
                                                Choice is an Illusion
                                                • Feb 2005
                                                • 42635

                                                #123
                                                Sorry to you artsy fartsy photographers, but there is a reason you're out of business. It's a very simple concept in regards to who stays in business and who does not. Perhaps you're shit doesn't convert as well as others, or your girls are not as attractive, maybe you do not offer post production and the next guy does. If your content does not generate sales, then you find yourself out of business. It's that simple.

                                                Look at Clips4Sale and all of the people making money there. Plenty of mom and pops shooting with what is at best night vision with mediocre talent and still making a living doing it. Do I think it's the pillar of quality content by PRODUCTION STANDARDS? No.

                                                However, I am a businessman. If that shitty night vision content with crackhoes convert into sales, ultimately that is ALL that I or people like myself care about. I can assure you that if your content and girls were selling and converting memberships like hotcakes, few would mind paying your ransom.

                                                I think some of you in this thread get too caught up in your artsy fartsy and do not spend enough time thinking about the business side of the equation from the end client's point of view. Obviously those who shoot hot women and good content that converts stay in business. It's simple natural selection of the business world.

                                                Last edited by Barefootsies; 09-09-2013, 06:45 PM.
                                                Should You Email Your Members?

                                                Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                Enough Said.

                                                "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                Comment

                                                • American Psycho
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Feb 2009
                                                  • 3068

                                                  #124
                                                  Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                                  and if you can only figure out to shoot a solo and a HJ for $500, well.... back to the drawing board for sure... mr psycho, pretty sure you are clueless
                                                  What else would you suggest for $500? Double anal?
                                                  Also if you read again i said i know people that shoot hj and solo for that it wasn't even speaking of myself.


                                                  It was merely a staement toward jays budget outline which if I can read between your line you just reaffirmed.


                                                  Ps wish I was clueless ignorance is bliss and to that u seem quite content.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Pseudonymous
                                                    Photographer/Owner
                                                    • Apr 2006
                                                    • 2661

                                                    #125
                                                    Barefootsies, its the clients that are currently hiring that have people caring about the technical side. The sites that are succeeding in the paysite market are indeed HQ erotic sites. There is a reason nubiles launched nubilefilms and the biggest sites to succeed lately are ones like x-art, joymii, reallyusefulcash's sites he has there, etc

                                                    These people are catering to the largest audience. Thats why its like that.

                                                    When you add all the other niches together and have them being sold on a site like clips4sales, of course its goign to appear like it is a better option

                                                    And as far as conversions, the bigger and more popular you are, the lousier conversions get, but those companies are still making the most.

                                                    One mistake those big companies are making, is by going to the same agency/l.a girls time and time again. That is what leaves room for other companies to come up and offer something better and why other niches still convert real well

                                                    Youre definitely right about photographers caring too much about the technical side of their work but only somewhat and the blame shouldn't only fall on their shoulders. I say somewhat because the type of product they are making is still the right choice for the most part.

                                                    Also who is out of business? Ive found the ones with actual skill have done pretty well at maintaining a workload. Also the ones that have the skill of producing high quality content and do not have a big workload, there might be other reasons for this.
                                                    Last edited by Pseudonymous; 09-09-2013, 06:59 PM.
                                                    Previous owner of SoloRevenue
                                                    Previous product manager @ Modelcentro.com/MCProfits.com, IsMyGirl.com, SMRevenue.com

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Barefootsies
                                                      Choice is an Illusion
                                                      • Feb 2005
                                                      • 42635

                                                      #126
                                                      Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                                                      When you add all the other niches together and have them being sold on a site like clips4sales, of course its goign to appear like it is a better option
                                                      My point was that it does not HAVE to be all artsy fartsy to convert. You can be the best technical and lighting expert on the planet, but if your content does not convert well for the end client buying, none of that bullshit matters.

                                                      Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                                                      One mistake those big companies are making, is by going to the same agency/l.a girls time and time again. That is what leaves room for other companies to come up and offer something better and why other niches still convert real well
                                                      True dat.

                                                      Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                                                      Youre definitely right about photographers caring too much about the technical side
                                                      Right. When you can't see the forest through the trees, there's a problem.

                                                      Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                                                      Also who is out of business?
                                                      There are some examples of people whining in this thread.

                                                      I am not saying that I do not agree with some of your points nor that there is not a time and place for artsy fartsy. But the fact remains that if you do good work, and cater to your clients, then you should be able to remain in business. Cost is a factor in who gets the gigs, but I can assure you that it's not the ONLY factor, especially for some large company especially if they are shooting high end stuff as you cite. My guess is that there is a lot more to the stories laid out in the thread.

                                                      Last edited by Barefootsies; 09-09-2013, 07:14 PM.
                                                      Should You Email Your Members?

                                                      Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                      Enough Said.

                                                      "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Pseudonymous
                                                        Photographer/Owner
                                                        • Apr 2006
                                                        • 2661

                                                        #127
                                                        Im not even sure what this debate/thread is about, its pretty messy but if its about what the actual cost to shoot is. Its no secret the producers in this industry do things at a higher cost than whats needed. They've been doing this since a time when things were better, they've built careers and accumulated bills that are reflective of what they once made. This is why they are still slightly above the line. Who cares if they charge higher, if you want their quality, it still makes sense to pay... if you cannot afford it, go with somebody else. There are many options IMO

                                                        If you truly want to do things at a lower than average rate, think outside the box, talk to people, do some networking. When you goto the first people you think of, its obvious they are going to be at a rate higher than what you can get it at, youre not the only one who thinks of them first

                                                        As far as budgets and costs go, you give somebody a budget, they'll find a way to spend to that budget. And you give that person that budget for quite sometime, they'll be pretty sure thats what it costs, you force a budget change on them and you watch them change their business model pretty quick and readjust accordingly. Most have simply not needed to or been asked to by somebody who controls the situation

                                                        Also if you expect a producer to come in here and do anything but defend the costs, well thats naive. Far too many biased opinions. Most of their current/future employers lurk this forum
                                                        Last edited by Pseudonymous; 09-09-2013, 07:31 PM.
                                                        Previous owner of SoloRevenue
                                                        Previous product manager @ Modelcentro.com/MCProfits.com, IsMyGirl.com, SMRevenue.com

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Grapesoda
                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                          • Jul 2003
                                                          • 46238

                                                          #128
                                                          Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                          Sorry to you artsy fartsy photographers, but there is a reason you're out of business. It's a very simple concept in regards to who stays in business and who does not. Perhaps you're shit doesn't convert as well as others, or your girls are not as attractive, maybe you do not offer post production and the next guy does. If your content does not generate sales, then you find yourself out of business. It's that simple.

                                                          Look at Clips4Sale and all of the people making money there. Plenty of mom and pops shooting with what is at best night vision with mediocre talent and still making a living doing it. Do I think it's the pillar of quality content by PRODUCTION STANDARDS? No.

                                                          However, I am a businessman. If that shitty night vision content with crackhoes convert into sales, ultimately that is ALL that I or people like myself care about. I can assure you that if your content and girls were selling and converting memberships like hotcakes, few would mind paying your ransom.

                                                          I think some of you in this thread get too caught up in your artsy fartsy and do not spend enough time thinking about the business side of the equation from the end client's point of view. Obviously those who shoot hot women and good content that converts stay in business. It's simple natural selection of the business world.

                                                          I see mostly humiliation doing well at c4s... then again I haven't looked there in some time... and even a top store at c4s isn't going to pull what the major sites pulled only as little 4 years ago.

                                                          you see 'artsy fartsy' producers dropping out while I see 'low quality producers' being squeezed out and by that I do not refer to image and video quality. the business is getting smaller, the budgets tighter... clients want to work with reliable producers that have solid integrity. there are people I won't work with because I know if something goes sideways, I'll achieve profitable resolution and things go sideways very often. more so than ever. the model pool is ... not really sure how to put it...

                                                          and like you say: convert and retain. that's the bottom line... when you speak of 'HQ DSLR sites' .. I have no idea... the content doesn't appeal to me. hopefully nubiles will do well with the stuff, I've know the nubiles guys since the beginning and wish them well.

                                                          the client base I shoot for doesn't want DOF isolation. one of the main concerns of the members I shoot for is 'posing' for some reason.... that and some certain articles of clothing. the first thing I do every morning is review the rating across the sites and read all the comments. this way I'm able to adjust my shoots to the membership needs as I go forward. if a shooter is NOT addressing the concerns of the members, no matter the quality or price of the content... that shooter will be replaced.

                                                          what's interesting to me is some of the HQ DSLR shooter don't actually care what the members want and are only interested in their 'craft/art'.I know that because I've been told that by some of the shooters... it will be interesting to see how that plays out in the long run.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Pseudonymous
                                                            Photographer/Owner
                                                            • Apr 2006
                                                            • 2661

                                                            #129
                                                            Brian,

                                                            Given the percent of members who are vocal and vote, etc is slim, do you think judging your entire way of shooting based on that small percent is the right thing to do? Just asking for the sake of discussion.

                                                            I ask because the ones who are vocal and interact are usually hardcore porn followers. Who usually have a different taste. They've seen it all. I think the average surfer has a different taste than the crazy porn fans.

                                                            For example, you make two movies, an adam sandler movie and some small independent film with geniuses behind it. You showcase them to a demographic which are super picky about their movies and they'll choose the one that was better made.

                                                            However you go and release both adn which one does better?

                                                            I can completely understand why one would go with their eye and vision of what the mass audience wants.
                                                            Last edited by Pseudonymous; 09-09-2013, 07:58 PM.
                                                            Previous owner of SoloRevenue
                                                            Previous product manager @ Modelcentro.com/MCProfits.com, IsMyGirl.com, SMRevenue.com

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Barefootsies
                                                              Choice is an Illusion
                                                              • Feb 2005
                                                              • 42635

                                                              #130
                                                              Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                                              and like you say: convert and retain. that's the bottom line...
                                                              True dat.

                                                              Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                                              the first thing I do every morning is review the rating across the sites and read all the comments. this way I'm able to adjust my shoots to the membership needs as I go forward.
                                                              That's why you still have a job.

                                                              Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                                              if a shooter is NOT addressing the concerns of the members, no matter the quality or price of the content... that shooter will be replaced.
                                                              Exactly.

                                                              Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                                              what's interesting to me is some of the HQ DSLR shooter don't actually care what the members want and are only interested in their 'craft/art'.
                                                              Right. You see it all the time. Developers who blow deadlines by a mile because everything has to be OCD perfect before they deliver. People who built pay site networks, and it takes them 2 years because EVERYTHING is not 100% ready so it takes them forever to launch or do anything. Then you have the artsy fartsy photographers who worry about the perfect production (camera gear, lighting, etc.) but can't shoot content that members wanna see or convert for their client. However, can go on and on about the excellence of their product.

                                                              In the end the only thing that matters is it's appeal and does it sell. If it doesn't sell or convert, the photographer's client will find someplace else with better models, or shot in a way that sells. Money is the name of the game, not artsy fartsy. High end production value is nice if that is what the members want. But the business or company who hired you wants sales, conversions, and retention.

                                                              Last edited by Barefootsies; 09-09-2013, 08:01 PM.
                                                              Should You Email Your Members?

                                                              Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                              Enough Said.

                                                              "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Pseudonymous
                                                                Photographer/Owner
                                                                • Apr 2006
                                                                • 2661

                                                                #131
                                                                And to add to my last post, wouldn't downloads/views make way more sense.
                                                                Previous owner of SoloRevenue
                                                                Previous product manager @ Modelcentro.com/MCProfits.com, IsMyGirl.com, SMRevenue.com

                                                                Comment

                                                                • JustDaveXxx
                                                                  I AM JUSTDAVE !
                                                                  • Feb 2005
                                                                  • 4111

                                                                  #132
                                                                  Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                  Sorry to you artsy fartsy photographers, but there is a reason you're out of business. It's a very simple concept in regards to who stays in business and who does not. Perhaps you're shit doesn't convert as well as others, or your girls are not as attractive, maybe you do not offer post production and the next guy does. If your content does not generate sales, then you find yourself out of business. It's that simple.
                                                                  I totally agree with you. Nice point.


                                                                  But I'm a "Spec" shooter. I shoot what the client wants and to the specifications that they want it. If I don't like it, or if I'm not interested, I just don't take the job.


                                                                  Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                  Look at Clips4Sale and all of the people making money there. Plenty of mom and pops shooting with what is at best night vision with mediocre talent and still making a living doing it. Do I think it's the pillar of quality content by PRODUCTION STANDARDS? No.
                                                                  Clips4sale trafic is "Niche" and "Fetish" specific. People that buy those type of clips(Which I love!) and go there are looking for specific amateur and fetish clips, not readily available everywhere.


                                                                  Hey, I may be a "Fancy Pancy" Polished, technical Shooter, but I love and also shoot high end Niche and fetish Clips, amateur Niche and fetish Clips, for clients and for my own Clips4sale store.


                                                                  Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                  However, I am a businessman. If that shitty night vision content with crackhoes convert into sales, ultimately that is ALL that I or people like myself care about. I can assure you that if your content and girls were selling and converting memberships like hotcakes, few would mind paying your ransom.
                                                                  I see your point and its way valid, but I don't think that this thread is about who is better than who and what converts and doesn't convert.


                                                                  It is as simple as this: Client tells me what he wants and I tell him what it costs. If the guy is a savvy and "in tune" website owner and understands his traffic, he will be able to convey that to me. If he conveys what it is he wants, I have been around long enough to know if I can make it happen or not. If I can and we are both happy with the price, it happens.


                                                                  But if i cant make it happen for what ever reason, (stuff I don't like to shoot, Things I dont think I could make happen, Price, etc), I politely decline.

                                                                  Things I have turned down: Gay, Tranny, GILFS, Arab Woman, Rape, torture, pissing, Shitting and a few others that i forgot. Some I just could not make happen and others, I just didn't want to do, because, i wouldn't really know how to do them on a consistent.




                                                                  Well I'm fortunate enough, that I am always busy and I have have the skills enough to turn in high end, "Artsy Fartsy", Super hardcore, and or amateur. And yes you do need some degree of skill to turn in amateur content. What skill might you ask??? The skills enough to duplicate the same look, feel, and style in a different place with the same consistence as you did all previous shoots.


                                                                  Why is that important? Well if a client likes a particular amateur scenes look, style and feel, that you shot, but he wants it in a different, place, location, at night, during the day, in the back yard, in a car, etc. You better have the skills to reproduce that.

                                                                  Not saying that the guy who actually is an amateur, wont sell content, but a "Spec" shooter better be able to reproduce what the client actually likes and wants.


                                                                  Cant tell you how many Amateurs, think they are shooting High End and it in fact its Amiture and they cant reproduce what they did the 1st time ever again.


                                                                  Seen that one a lot.

                                                                  Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                  I think some of you in this thread get too caught up in your artsy fartsy and do not spend enough time thinking about the business side of the equation from the end client's point of view. Obviously those who shoot hot women and good content that converts stay in business. It's simple natural selection of the business world.


                                                                  Footsie, I like you, I respect you and I agree with you on just about everything.


                                                                  But I will tell you 1st hand, and this has been my experience; I don't think its about hot women or even pretty women. I think its about getting the right content for the right targeted traffic.





                                                                  Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                                                                  Barefootsies, its the clients that are currently hiring that have people caring about the technical side. The sites that are succeeding in the paysite market are indeed HQ erotic sites. There is a reason nubiles launched nubilefilms and the biggest sites to succeed lately are ones like x-art, joymii, reallyusefulcash's sites he has there, etc

                                                                  These people are catering to the largest audience. Thats why its like that.

                                                                  When you add all the other niches together and have them being sold on a site like clips4sales, of course its goign to appear like it is a better option

                                                                  And as far as conversions, the bigger and more popular you are, the lousier conversions get, but those companies are still making the most.

                                                                  One mistake those big companies are making, is by going to the same agency/l.a girls time and time again. That is what leaves room for other companies to come up and offer something better and why other niches still convert real well

                                                                  Youre definitely right about photographers caring too much about the technical side of their work but only somewhat and the blame shouldn't only fall on their shoulders. I say somewhat because the type of product they are making is still the right choice for the most part.

                                                                  Also who is out of business? Ive found the ones with actual skill have done pretty well at maintaining a workload. Also the ones that have the skill of producing high quality content and do not have a big workload, there might be other reasons for this.


                                                                  Really nice post. I like chopping it up with knowledgable people such as your self. Much Respect..





                                                                  Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                  In the end the only thing that matters is it's appeal and does it sell. If it doesn't sell or convert, the photographer's client will find someplace else with better models, or shot in a way that sells. Money is the name of the game, not artsy fartsy. High end production value is nice if that is what the members want. But the business or company who hired you wants sales, conversions, and retention.

                                                                  Agreed

                                                                  Just Dave
                                                                  Last edited by JustDaveXxx; 09-09-2013, 09:20 PM.


                                                                  Smut Peddler Productions.com
                                                                  ICQ #378-696-435 / / Skype: JustDaveXxx
                                                                  "We shoot custom, exclusive content your way"

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • MaDalton
                                                                    I am Amazing Content!
                                                                    • Feb 2004
                                                                    • 39861

                                                                    #133
                                                                    Originally posted by JustDaveXxx

                                                                    But I'm a "Spec" shooter. I shoot what the client wants and to the specifications that they want it. If I don't like it, or if I'm not interested, I just don't take the job.

                                                                    It is as simple as this: Client tells me what he wants and I tell him what it costs. If the guy is a savvy and "in tune" website owner and understands his traffic, he will be able to convey that to me. If he conveys what it is he wants, I have been around long enough to know if I can make it happen or not. If I can and we are both happy with the price, it happens.

                                                                    But if i cant make it happen for what ever reason, (stuff I don't like to shoot, Things I dont think I could make happen, Price, etc), I politely decline.

                                                                    Well I'm fortunate enough, that I am always busy and I have have the skills enough to turn in high end, "Artsy Fartsy", Super hardcore, and or amateur. And yes you do need some degree of skill to turn in amateur content. What skill might you ask??? The skills enough to duplicate the same look, feel, and style in a different place with the same consistence as you did all previous shoots.

                                                                    Why is that important? Well if a client likes a particular amateur scenes look, style and feel, that you shot, but he wants it in a different, place, location, at night, during the day, in the back yard, in a car, etc. You better have the skills to reproduce that.

                                                                    Not saying that the guy who actually is an amateur, wont sell content, but a "Spec" shooter better be able to reproduce what the client actually likes and wants.


                                                                    But I will tell you 1st hand, and this has been my experience; I don't think its about hot women or even pretty women. I think its about getting the right content for the right targeted traffic.

                                                                    Just Dave

                                                                    Thanks, Dave! I condensed your post to what are exactly my thoughts as well


                                                                    AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003
                                                                    Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites
                                                                    Got German traffic? We convert it into money for you!
                                                                    Email: oltecconsult [at] gmail [dot] com

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Grapesoda
                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                                      • 46238

                                                                      #134
                                                                      Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                                                                      Brian,

                                                                      Given the percent of members who are vocal and vote, etc is slim, do you think judging your entire way of shooting based on that small percent is the right thing to do? Just asking for the sake of discussion.

                                                                      I ask because the ones who are vocal and interact are usually hardcore porn followers. Who usually have a different taste. They've seen it all. I think the average surfer has a different taste than the crazy porn fans.

                                                                      For example, you make two movies, an adam sandler movie and some small independent film with geniuses behind it. You showcase them to a demographic which are super picky about their movies and they'll choose the one that was better made.

                                                                      However you go and release both adn which one does better?

                                                                      I can completely understand why one would go with their eye and vision of what the mass audience wants.
                                                                      I don't have access to the download info however I'm aware of the stats and I know because I've been told what poses to hit for the free sites, and those poses get better reactions from the members in the comments. I also get emails on a regular basis form the membership.

                                                                      and yes the membership isn't that vocal however I think there is a formula: each comment equals 'x' number of members with a similar view. other than the comments that are directly opposed to the general membership like 'don't shoot ECU's, the comments and votes seem to be on track.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Barefootsies
                                                                        Choice is an Illusion
                                                                        • Feb 2005
                                                                        • 42635

                                                                        #135
                                                                        Originally posted by JustDaveXxx
                                                                        Footsie, I like you, I respect you and I agree with you on just about everything.

                                                                        But I will tell you 1st hand, and this has been my experience; I don't think its about hot women or even pretty women. I think its about getting the right content for the right targeted traffic.
                                                                        Agreed wholeheartedly.
                                                                        Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                        Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                        Enough Said.

                                                                        "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Jay-Rock
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Mar 2007
                                                                          • 2779

                                                                          #136
                                                                          I totally agree with Dave I have always been a spec shooter as the clients I worked have staff that critiques every scene and will totally overcompensate for one or 2 members complaining. Sometimes its nessecary feedback but other times this doesn't represent porn consumers as a whole but only a couple of their members that bother to post comments. It has been so bad that the girl can't enjoy the scene. You have to tell them "you can't do that" or you have to use fingers even if you can't cum because members complain about the toys. "The members like it more and its what the client insists on" I always adjusted according to what the bossman would say even it I thought it wasn't hot. Sometimes too much critique can be a bad thing when sex should be natural and not forced as long as the talent can do it and showcase the penetration.
                                                                          Last edited by Jay-Rock; 09-10-2013, 03:58 AM.
                                                                          HD and 4k Content Production by JayRock
                                                                          http://jayspov.net
                                                                          http://blackforwife.com
                                                                          http://cospimps.com
                                                                          SKYPE JAYROCKCONTENT
                                                                          [email protected]
                                                                          Twitter @jayrockcontent

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Barefootsies
                                                                            Choice is an Illusion
                                                                            • Feb 2005
                                                                            • 42635

                                                                            #137
                                                                            Originally posted by Jay-Rock
                                                                            "The members like it more and its what the client insists on" I always adjusted according to what the bossman would say even it I thought it wasn't hot.
                                                                            "The bossman" needs to recoup his investment. One would assume that whatever he's insisting on is what generates sales, retention, or ROI otherwise it would not make sense to interfere. I would bet good cash money that there is a method to the madness and the choices being made somewhere in the business plan.

                                                                            In short, he has a business to run. He should know what his members want, their feedback, whatever. You should be willing and able to do anything commanded for him to get maximum ROI for any content being produced. This is a Symbian circle of business.

                                                                            Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                            Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                            Enough Said.

                                                                            "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Jay-Rock
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Mar 2007
                                                                              • 2779

                                                                              #138
                                                                              Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                              "The bossman" needs to recoup his investment. One would assume that whatever he's insisting on is what generates sales, retention, or ROI otherwise it would not make sense to interfere. I would bet good cash money that there is a method to the madness and the choices being made somewhere in the business plan.

                                                                              In short, he has a business to run. He should know what his members want, their feedback, whatever. You should be willing and able to do anything commanded for him to get maximum ROI for any content being produced. This is a Symbian circle of business.

                                                                              Trust me I adjust to what my clients like not what I like for example:
                                                                              http://girlsabuseguys.com/preview.php?p=7

                                                                              Although me and my crew had a fun time shooting this it is way beyond what I think is hot naturally since I am not into being abused. I shoot exactly what the clients want however some paysite owners don't get it sometimes.

                                                                              The abuse client was fun to shoot for because he had great scripts laid out for each scene and really knew the niche. Even though its not my niche he was one of my favorite clients to work for. Clients that know their niche are easy to work for. Others know marketing and have never really been on a porn set so sometimes don't get it.
                                                                              Last edited by Jay-Rock; 09-10-2013, 04:48 AM.
                                                                              HD and 4k Content Production by JayRock
                                                                              http://jayspov.net
                                                                              http://blackforwife.com
                                                                              http://cospimps.com
                                                                              SKYPE JAYROCKCONTENT
                                                                              [email protected]
                                                                              Twitter @jayrockcontent

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Barefootsies
                                                                                Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                • Feb 2005
                                                                                • 42635

                                                                                #139
                                                                                Originally posted by Jay-Rock
                                                                                Although me and my crew had a fun time shooting this it is way beyond what I think is hot naturally since I am not into being abused. I shoot exactly what the clients want however some paysite owners don't get it sometimes.

                                                                                Others know marketing and have never really been on a porn set so sometimes don't get it.
                                                                                They obviously know 'something' or "get it" about what sells on their websites and what members want if they have the resource or money to be able to afford hiring you in the first place to shoot their content. No offense. In the end you're shooting a product to sell. No more, no less. Tender feelings, pride and ego have no place in business. It's a very simple equation.... ROI.

                                                                                Last edited by Barefootsies; 09-10-2013, 04:57 AM.
                                                                                Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                                Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                                Enough Said.

                                                                                "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Grapesoda
                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                  • Jul 2003
                                                                                  • 46238

                                                                                  #140
                                                                                  Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                                  They obviously know 'something' or "get it" about what sells on their websites and what members want if they have the ability and money to be able to afford hiring you in the first place to shoot their content. No offense. In the end you're shooting a product to sell. No more, no less. Tender feelings, pride and ego have no place in business. It's a very simple equation.... ROI.

                                                                                  internet sales is extremely 'micro managed' these days, just like a walmart/target/grocery store... every detail of the consumer experience/action and reaction is charted, quantified and distilled to generate a sale.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Barefootsies
                                                                                    Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                    • Feb 2005
                                                                                    • 42635

                                                                                    #141
                                                                                    Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                                                                    internet sales is extremely 'micro managed' these days, just like a walmart/target/grocery store... every detail of the consumer experience/action and reaction is charted, quantified and distilled to generate a sale.
                                                                                    Correct. It's called, 'effectively running a profitable business' based on metrics.

                                                                                    Gone are the old days where shooters were given pure creative control making it a gamble where you just shoot whatever your wittle heart desires and cross your toes for a sale or two. Any successful business now keeps track of what does and does not convert, solicits feedback from their members, and tries to invest in the numbers or probability of success and ROI.

                                                                                    As I said before, it's a fairly simple equation....this is a business based on ROI.

                                                                                    Last edited by Barefootsies; 09-10-2013, 05:20 AM.
                                                                                    Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                                    Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                                    Enough Said.

                                                                                    "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Jay-Rock
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Mar 2007
                                                                                      • 2779

                                                                                      #142
                                                                                      Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                                      Correct. It's called, 'effectively running a profitable business' based on metrics.

                                                                                      Gone are the old days where shooters were given pure creative control making it a gamble where you just shoot whatever your wittle heart desires and cross your toes for a sale or two. Any successful business now keeps track of what does and does not convert, solicits feedback from their members, and tries to invest in the numbers or probability of success and ROI.

                                                                                      As I said before, it's a fairly simple equation....this is a business based on ROI.

                                                                                      Agreed that's why the ones that don't get it filter too much and it makes the scenes suck where on other hand the ones that actually understand how porn talent is shot and dealt with make better ROI. This is why Porn Pros does so well because Mike Sullivan has been around porn sets and dealt with the talent since the beginning where other guys manage their shoots without ever even meeting their producers and talent. Even when these guys copy other peoples ideas it seems to sell more than the other companies that soon follow and try to emulate the same niche. I don't claim to be a marketing expert but I understand when the sex is hot and when its not. Most of the stuff I have shoot isn't too niche specific so its more about the performance of the talent than anything. Secondary to that is just getting great camera angles to showcase that performance.
                                                                                      Last edited by Jay-Rock; 09-10-2013, 06:50 AM.
                                                                                      HD and 4k Content Production by JayRock
                                                                                      http://jayspov.net
                                                                                      http://blackforwife.com
                                                                                      http://cospimps.com
                                                                                      SKYPE JAYROCKCONTENT
                                                                                      [email protected]
                                                                                      Twitter @jayrockcontent

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • marcop
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Nov 2005
                                                                                        • 4150

                                                                                        #143
                                                                                        Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                                                                        and yes the membership isn't that vocal however I think there is a formula: each comment equals 'x' number of members with a similar view.
                                                                                        Right off the top of my head I can think of two things wrong about that statement.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Grapesoda
                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                          • Jul 2003
                                                                                          • 46238

                                                                                          #144
                                                                                          Originally posted by marcop
                                                                                          Right off the top of my head I can think of two things wrong about that statement.
                                                                                          wouldn't surprise me a bit if it was completely wrong BUT it works for me....

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • JustDaveXxx
                                                                                            I AM JUSTDAVE !
                                                                                            • Feb 2005
                                                                                            • 4111

                                                                                            #145
                                                                                            WOW!! Lots of good stuff in this thread.

                                                                                            And it seems that we all kinda get along. lol


                                                                                            Just Dave


                                                                                            Smut Peddler Productions.com
                                                                                            ICQ #378-696-435 / / Skype: JustDaveXxx
                                                                                            "We shoot custom, exclusive content your way"

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Alice22
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Nov 2003
                                                                                              • 907

                                                                                              #146
                                                                                              I think that art sites and c4s style content - it's not really something we can compare in any way.

                                                                                              Art sites = technical skills, good composition, great location, pretty girls.
                                                                                              This content cost much more money to produce.

                                                                                              c4s content - creativity and understand fetish is a must here.
                                                                                              Can be made for a low cost.

                                                                                              I believe that those art sites, make the most $$ now, but you need to have a very big budget, to produce this kind of content.
                                                                                              Exclusive Teen Solo girls and pregnant sites

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Barefootsies
                                                                                                Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                                • Feb 2005
                                                                                                • 42635

                                                                                                #147
                                                                                                Originally posted by Alice22
                                                                                                I believe that those art sites, make the most $$ now, but you need to have a very big budget, to produce this kind of content.
                                                                                                You need to define what "makes the most money" means.

                                                                                                Artsy fartsy costs a lot more to produce than some C4S fetish stuff. Meaning, the profit margin per scene is potentially higher for a lower end production that can convert versus a high glam production and budget. Again, this comes down to ROI.

                                                                                                Keep in mind, I am not bashing artsy fartsy or high end production caliber work as there is a time and place for it and those websites. I am not saying that C4S is the greatest thing ever and that all adult sites should follow that business model either. My point is that this comes down to return on investment and profit margins per scene. The end goal is maximum profit.

                                                                                                Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                                                Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                                                Enough Said.

                                                                                                "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • bean-aid
                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                  • Jun 2011
                                                                                                  • 16493

                                                                                                  #148
                                                                                                  I'm sure it has nothing to do with content being stolen and this industry supporting all methods of stealing that content... Just wanted to add the obvious reason why content is *NOT* devalued...

                                                                                                  carry on ladies

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • MaxCandy
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Sep 2003
                                                                                                    • 3750

                                                                                                    #149
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                                                    You need to define what "makes the most money" means.

                                                                                                    Artsy fartsy costs a lot more to produce than some C4S fetish stuff. Meaning, the profit margin per scene is potentially higher for a lower end production that can convert versus a high glam production and budget. Again, this comes down to ROI.

                                                                                                    Keep in mind, I am not bashing artsy fartsy or high end production caliber work as there is a time and place for it and those websites. I am not saying that C4S is the greatest thing ever and that all adult sites should follow that business model either. My point is that this comes down to return on investment and profit margins per scene. The end goal is maximum profit.

                                                                                                    ROI is indeed king, I just wanted to point out that well crafted content has a much longer self-life and therefore makes money for longer.

                                                                                                    I pretty much focus on high end films made for VOD/TV/Cable, they take around six months to make, but they make money for years and years.
                                                                                                    Last edited by MaxCandy; 09-12-2013, 01:25 AM.
                                                                                                    Need a High-End Custom Shoot?

                                                                                                    Award Winning Producer / Director / Industry Consultant. Five of my Feature Films have been given top AVN / XBIZ / VENUS awards; How I Became A Sexual Slave 2016, L’Innocente 2014, Inglorious Bitches 2013, Ritual 2011 & Sexual Adventures of Little Red 2009

                                                                                                    SINCE 1996 - IMDB Imdb.com - SAMPLES/AWARDS MaxCandy.com Email MaxCandy at MaxCandy.com

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • Alice22
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • Nov 2003
                                                                                                      • 907

                                                                                                      #150
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                                                      You need to define what "makes the most money" means.

                                                                                                      Artsy fartsy costs a lot more to produce than some C4S fetish stuff. Meaning, the profit margin per scene is potentially higher for a lower end production that can convert versus a high glam production and budget. Again, this comes down to ROI.

                                                                                                      True, but with niche stuff, you have less people to buy, even if they convert much better, there is no doubt about it.
                                                                                                      So, the potential of fetish is still not that huge, than those arty films.
                                                                                                      What i mean is....you have no chance with any fetish (also with huge one like femdom niche that very strong at c4s), to make millions like met art doing.
                                                                                                      Exclusive Teen Solo girls and pregnant sites

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      Working...