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The United States will sell them all they want under the table. We have more chemical weapons stockpiles than any country in the world. :( EDIT: FITTY President Obama's getting schooled on the international stage |
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^ give that man a cigar. You have hit the point of the imminent threat and its danger here ... |
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(it means also that syria is a magnet for terrorist: there is weapons to steal and this means also that we are far from the end of the problem with these arabic countries) But yes, it is probably a reason to do something, but in this case why not help assad instead of the terrorists ? |
@robbie: |
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We can help him by removing his chemical weapons and destroying them safely. |
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And the United States didn't ratify it for almost 50 years (it was signed in 1928 and the U.S. govt. didn't ratify it until 1974). And then the U.S. govt. reneged on it almost immediately. The United States is one of only 13 countries with internationally declared CHEMICAL WEAPONS PRODUCTION. And has the world's largest stockpile. And we have used them too. Most times covertly...but right out in the open during the Vietnam War. My wife's dad suffered from complications from Agent Orange right up until the day he died (he was a Viet War Vet). Most people just assume that the U.S. is a "good guy". Nope. Read for yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemica...ons_Convention |
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There are only 13 countries that make them. The U.S. is one of them (we make more and stockpile more than any other country on Earth) But since Syria is a Russian client they probably got theirs either from Russia or Iran (also two of the countries who produce it) Here's the list of countries who produce chemical weapons: Bosnia and Herzegovina China France India Iran Iraq Japan Libya Russia Serbia United Kingdom United States Kinda weird that Iraq is in that list. Now I wonder why we would have them producing chemical weapons? (we overthrew Hussein over it remember?) Gee... I wonder why.... |
Yes, We Can !
Yes we can ... 1.Use the IRS to fuck with our enemies 2.Benghazi 3.Spy on the Associated Press 4.Rosengate 5.Lie constanlty 6.Fast and Furious 7.Start a nuclear war 8.Constantly tell you one thing and do another 8.Piss off our allies 9.Have a $6 million dollar conference at Disney World 10.Solyndra 11.Ripoff the poor people that believed we can, now you can have triple the cost health insurance and two new part-time job's at McDonalds you can can... 13.Fuck with and bully the press 8.Constantly tell you one thing and do another 14.Make you stupid 14.Use the name and memory of MLK to fool you into thinking Obama is a black humanitarian 15.Say "Folk's" alot because we care about you 16.Lie, Lie, Lie till your pants catch on fire 17.Win the Nobel Peace Prize while never promoting peace 18.Vaguely tell people "They Can" but never really specifying what exactly it is they "Can" so when you do nothing they never really noticed because they're filled with the warm feeling of "they Can"..... get fucked http://i.imgur.com/HxqnyYy.gif |
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Not a single person in the government (the shot callers) really cares they are used on people of color. If they cared, and I mean honestly cared, they wouldn't fucking make them in the first place and put a ban on the production of such weapons, and place a crippling embargo (like they did to Cuba) against any nation who doesn't play by the rules. Instead, they just continue making them and continue chasing the boogiemen who use them. |
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This list is a bit more comprehensive.
http://cns.miis.edu/cbw/possess.htm I believe all of this is not over sarin gas attacks AT ALL. It is about control and flow of energy resources. Haliburton is in on it. They have a new enterprise in the Golan Heights. Stop blabbering on about the smoke screens and get to the meat of it. |
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http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/demil/closing_facilities.htm |
I remember back in 90's when Kosovo Albanians faked that they were poisoned by Serbs and there were plenty of reports there. At some point, TV entered hospital where they were "dying and suffering" and found them laughing and talking in corridors. They started ruining like idiots, and hiding. That was one of attempts to get international "support" that they managed 9 years later. After that lesson, I don't believe anything anymore and don't give a shit about internal problems of any country.
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And as I said...Iran and Russia are Syria's biggest allies. They both produce and sell chemical weapons to their allies (just like our govt. in the U.S. does). And of course the U.S. is going to deny that we sell them to our allies. Just like Russia, Iran, and North Korea will deny that they do. That's the fucked up game these bastards play. And I'm not cavalier about anything. We are faced with a situation where a lot of people have and use chemical weapons. By the way..IF you believe the U.S. govt. and they really have destroyed a large percentage of their stockpile (and remember...the U.S. is STILL PRODUCING it, so not really sure what numbers game they are playing)...the official reported U.S. stockpile of chemical weapons is still 5,449 metric tons Probably enough to kill EVERBODY. And certainly a lot more than Syria has ever had. Or anybody else for that matter. We still have the largest reported official stockpile in the world. And since we are producing it every day...I'd say that they are NOT reporting it all. How do you reduce your stockpile while you are producing new chemical weapons at the same time? |
As of the end of March 2012, all 70 declared facilities had been deactivated and 92% (64) have been certified as destroyed or converted to civilian use.[28] In 2009, Iraq declared five production sites which were put out of commission by damage in the 1991 and 2003 wars; OPCW inspections were still required.[
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Ah...you're still talking politics and think Obama is "better".
And I'm coming at this from the viewpoint that none of them are "better". If spying, gun running, drone killing, irs targeting, military "surges", and now attacking a sovereign nation with no provocation isn't enough for you...then we must agree to disagree. There's nothing really for us to discuss because we aren't even starting with the same premise. I don't want to pretend that one of us is "right" and one is "wrong". I'm just saying that we can't discuss it intelligently if we aren't at least starting from the same point. Your posts seem to be insinuating that the United States federal govt. isn't doing anything wrong and "yes" we should attack another country without provocation and kill people with our bombs to "punish" the dictator for killing people (even though he will be eating a fine dinner and living a life of luxury while other people die from our bombs). So we have to part ways in this discussion. :) I am of the belief that 1. The U.S. is TOTALLY hypocritical (just look at what we did with Agent Orange in Vietnam). 2. It is an international crime to attack another country without provocation unless it is a UN sanctioned move (and we've already made that mistake with Iraq, how soon we forget) |
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No need to go back to agent orange. In the first gulf war we knew Iraq had gassed the Kurdish rebels but we signed a peace treaty with them. It was only under Bush lite that it became a reason to attack them some more.
I'm still of the opinion that allowing blatant attacks using these kinds of weapons can't be let go. I'd wager that none of those opposing a US strike are actually opposed to doing something, (except the trade partners of Syria). The rest want sanctions of some sort no doubt. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PAT...rorist_support
Isn't the US government violating this by supporting Al Qaeda linked terrorists? And they can't use a wartime excuse since we haven't declared war yet. I'm sure some excuse of "it's different when we do it!" will be thrown around, but I would love for a senator/congressman who is anti-intervention on this to throw it in their faces. |
our governments always get politically involved in stupid shit. Look at Reagan. He sold arms to Iran then gave the money to another insurgent group, lmao. Criminal shit man, and he's revered as a hero type. Hey, he had good qualities, but most dicks do somewhere along the line.
McCain openly wants to bomb all Syrian runways then send arms to the rebels. No bones about it. NO solution is perfect and won't ever be. Even just trying to do a single thing is damn near impossible. I think it comes down to a simple question of morals and it seems the majority figures it's all cool over there. |
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We let civil wars with HORRIBLE atrocities happen constantly in Africa for instance. And it's really none of our business to try military action. And sanctions just hurt the people even more. We are not supposed to act like we are the King Of The World and put our nose into every civil war. And we especially shouldn't be sitting around contemplating bombing them and killing even MORE people. Then add in the thousands of more enemies for life we will create who will now be on a mission to destroy our country because our bombs killed their father, or mother, or brother, or sister, or child. The thought that killing people to "save" them has failed over and over. Vietnam to Iraq to Afghanistan. And as I said...it's an international crime. Could you imagine what we would do if China or Russia started bombing another country for ANY reason? Our govt. would be screaming from the rooftops about it. |
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In fact, all US chemical weapons, according to treaty , were suipposed to be destroyed by 2007 .... Guess What ... :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh |
Syria: Pope warns Barack Obama that military strike would be 'futile'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...be-futile.html |
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"I cannot understand who gave the United States or France the right to act against a country in a way that will certainly increase the suffering of the citizens of that country, who, by the way, have already suffered beyond measure," he said. " I'm not religious...but The Pope hit the nail on the head. |
First of all, Syria will not attack another country. That would be a fatal mistake and the Syrian regime knows it. |
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Those guys again -- stick to choirboys |
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Second...you should really get over your political left wing obsessiveness. Yes, when Bush was Pres. the U.S. govt. invaded another country looking for "Weapons Of Mass Destruction". Reality was...it was none of our goddamned business. It was bullshit. And Bush was able to get Congress and Great Britain and about 70 other countries to go along with it. And it was STILL illegal to attack another country without provocation. But at least he could claim that Iraq had broken all the U.N. sanctions. Now...you are cool with it because Baby Jesus Obama is a Democrat? Dude, you are really pushing the limits. Please explain just one thing to me. How is killing MORE Syrian people with our bombs going to "help" the Syrian people that our govt. is trying to tell you that they are so concerned about? And why isn't the govt. "concerned" about places like Dufar where over 200,000 people have been killed in govt. genocide? Women have had their Achilles heels sliced so they can't run from the soldiers who come to rape them periodically. The atrocities are enormous. Been going on now for TEN years. |
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Barry, not everything the govt says is a lie...but when you reveal the truth of what they are doing you go to prison for "treason". That should kinda be a hint that maybe we the public don't know shit about what they are really doing
And I agree that empty threats are dangerous. Our Pres. had no business threatening another country to begin with. But to now say that we have to go in and KILL people in Syria because Obama made a dumb move by threatening to do it in the first place is not cool at all. I think if you or I were Syrian citizens we would be just as unhappy about our families being killed by U.S. bombing as we would be about getting gassed by the Syrian Govt. Two wrongs do NOT make a right. As I said before, it's NOT "okay" to use chemical weapons. But I'm pretty sure that the CWC was about the use of those weapons in WAR. They were concerned with the safety of their own troops. And there is international law that says one country can not attack another one without provocation. In other words...our military is supposed to be DEFENDING our country. Not out attacking other countries base on theories of "preliminary strikes". Look at what that got us in Iraq. On one hand you are saying the govt. lied it's ass off to invade Iraq and made up stories of WMD's. Then you turn around and say that since a guy you like is now in office...it's all good to do the same thing all over again. I just don't think it is. And to see my Democrat friends and the scumbag politicians in Washington D.C. suddenly become War Hawks is just an amazing and disturbing thing. And it just goes to show that nothing really matters except power. John Kerry calling for us to bomb another country that did not attack us is just pure politics. Deep down inside he is still that guy who wanted to abolish war and testified about the atrocities in Vietnam by our military. But politics has him selling out and following the party line. And watching Nancy Pelosi come out of the White House meeting the other day all bloodthirsty and ready to start killing people with Cruise Missiles was one of the most bizarre things I've ever witnessed. And to see them all trying to justify it by comparing it to Chamberlain appeasing Hitler is a fucking joke. Hitler was invading and occupying half of Europe at the time (you know, sort of like what WE did in Iraq and Afghanistan) and had a giant military machine that was threatening all of Europe. Syria? They are definitely not even CLOSE to the military that Hitler had. Hitler would have destroyed this civil war bullshit in a couple of hours. The Syrian military can't seem to stop it at all...much less invade other countries. And will they suddenly have the ability to pull their troops away from barely being able to hold off the "rebels" and hit the borders and start firing all of their chemical weapons at Israel and Turkey and Iraq now? I don't know. And neither does Obama. And how about instead of assuming shit, we wait until somebody actually DOES it before we start another Iraq-style preemptive strike? Our country JUST did that over the last decade and it was a huge mistake. Hell, we are still fighting in Afghanistan. We should have never invaded them either. Their "crime" was that the leader of the Taliban (you know, the ones we helped get into power by arming them against the Russians) refused to "cooperate" and hand over Bin Laden. So the U.S. govt. invaded the whole goddamned country. And yeah, it "felt" right at the moment. But now looking back (with 20/20 hindsight) I see that it was a fucking dumbass thing to do and has ended up killing tens of thousands of civilians and as of Oct. 2012 had killed 2,012 U.S. troops (that number is higher now). Really? 12 years and all these dead people plus hundreds of billions of dollars. The whole thing could have been taken care of by The Navy Seals from the very beginning. And now we want to do it again? How about we just skip the mass deaths, creating new hate filled enemies of the people there...and just send in the Seal team to take out Pres. Assad now? I'll tell you why...because our fucking politicians love to play at war. But the fear of their own sorry asses getting assassinated in retaliation keeps them from taking out Assad himself. So more innocent people are going to die because Obama made a dumbass comment about a redline and now has to prove how tough he is politically? Come on man. We can't go in there and murder people with bombs to teach Assad a lesson about murdering people with gas. It makes ZERO sense. |
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All this partisan 'Obama is terrible', 'Bush was terrible', 'Demublicans suck' fighting, chatter, drivel is exactly what "they" want: Focus on the frontmen, and Pay No Attention To The Men Behind The Curtain. Divide and rule. Follow the money. |
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NONE of them are worth a damn. |
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Things America leads the world in?. 1. the number of people incarcerated in prison. 24% of all the world's prisoners. This in spite of having only 4% of the world's population. Obscene. 2. America's military budget is more than the next 16 countries combined. Obscene. Perhaps if USA didn't meddle in everyone else's affairs then this wouldn't be necessary. Any common foreigner can get a taste of US oppressive power by going through US customs where you have no rights and answering a question like "have you ever smoked a joint?" honestly can get you banned for life. I know plenty of people who have had their rather expensive holiday and business plans unceremoniously ruined by customs for the silliest little things. People are actually staying away from US in droves because of US customs and taking their tourist dollars elsewhere. There is something really fucked up with the American psyche where litigation is a sport and everyone is out to control everyone else. America?. The land of the free!? huh? Wait. Off the top of my head I'm not thinking of too many less free countries in the world. Oh, and what is with every American's love affair with their military? If I hear one more American trip over themselves to be the first to thank a soldier I'm going to barf. I know that opinion is going to be unpopular but I only see them as contributing to the madness. |
The only tinng I would like to see is getting those Syrian chemical weapons to a safe place for disposal. |
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If mandated world police then USA must take action. If bully then ok, USA step back and the free world must consider how they can deal with Syria knowing people fighting for basic human rights are gassed to death. How is this different then any human looking to have basic human rights? All people are born equal and have basic human rights, that is my opinion and any person believing any different is a wasted life. Yes then you did NOTHING other than making your short stay on earth comfortable. I DO NOT believe the USA should be fighting this cause but instead WE ALL should. Look at slavery or even earlier in history and you will know that it is worth fighting for the freedom of every humans on earth. Borders mean NOTHING, the world is one. I have no compassion for Obama, but just ask you look at the present situation with an unbiased opinion. |
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I think TPTP have shown their cards on this one and it's blowing up in their face. There's a just a few like yourself that have yet to see it. |
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Robbie never fails to disappoint.
Agent Orange can't be equated with sarin. Sarin is used to kill people, a horrible death. Agent Orange was a chemical defoliant used against the Viet Cong who were clever enough to hide their weapons and themselves under the cover of thick jungle vegetation. Agent Orange was dropped not to kill people but to give the American soldiers the ability to see their enemy. There's no doubt that the chemical caused many on both sides of the war and civilians terrible health problems but it is not in any way equivalent to using sarin gas to deliberately kill your enemy. Can't wait until the US becomes a weak isolationist country at the behest of its citizenry, who will shortly thereafter begin their crying about being jobless, higher taxes, less entitlements - your standard of living has much to do with the very shit you're crying about. |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,7,8...odibenzodioxin dl50 (rat, oral) 20 μg/kg sarin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin dl50 (rat, oral) 0,55 mg·kg-1 (= 550 μg/kg) dioxin is even more toxic than sarin (source french wikipedia) |
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