Jayden James Calls out BOBBY MANILA

QFT!



ADG

Nothing wrong with having your own exclusive porn..

Maybe if he was upfront about it.

no dog, but couldn't that be looked at as 'theft'?

she was paid for a shoot - producer's right to shoot what he wants, not her business as long as she got paid. maybe NaughtyAmerica wouldn't be happy with the guy for shooting something for himself on their dime.

Not for nothing, but someone could just as easily ask what the deal is with this Reggie Durango guy. Just curious, but do you even work in the adult business as a producer or a journalist or something other than just cross-posting potentially controversial stories about the production side of the business to this forum? I have to admit I sometimes find them interesting reading. But I'm not really clear on what your agenda is when you select people that you don't do business and who don't owe you money personally as far as I know and attempt to instigate trouble.

Sorry Mutt but that's just silly. Yes she was paid for the shoot but she has every right to know who the content is for and how it will be used. It's tacky & unprofessional IMO to hire a girl and not tell her exactly how and where the content will be utilized.

I think Mutt is not only correct in a certain respect but he didn't make his point strongly enough. I can't speak for everyone but most independent producers who aren't employed full-time or who aren't exclusively contracted by any one production company pay models out of our own pockets and then sell or license the content we shoot as we see fit.

I personally always make sure that I get a video disclaimer with the models I hire where they say on camera that not only are they of sound mind, sober, of legal age of majority, tell their legal name & date of birth, that they have a clean test and saw their partner's health test but also very importantly that they understand that the content I shoot could be sold, licensed and re-sold in every technological medium that will ever be created without geographic restriction in perpetuity to any number of entities and that there will be no way to make it go away and that such activity may subject them to scorn from people they know seeing the content at any time in the future.

That way everyone is on the same page and it avoids a lot of issues with models saying they thought the material would only be on a certain web site, or kept only behind member areas or not available on DVD or not available on the internet or not broadcast on TV or not available in the U.S., or it would go away after a certain period of time and a million of potential objections.

Exactly...
Plus, with piracy, and promotion, we'd be lying if we told them it would end up"here" rather than "everywhere." But saying it's for another client and for yourself is a bit different and im sure many a producer has been fired over this. I don't like my directors shooting shit for their own sites in my studio, with my equiptment, lights etc, unless they want to buck up for a rental fee at least
ds

You certainly have every right in the world to run your own business however you see fit, especially since you're hiring directors to work under your control with your gear in your own studio and presumably are paying for all of it directly.

Of course Mutts comment was a generalization and not applicable to all situations. I think you and I are on the same page here though....

If the producer makes it known up front that the material may be sold to a number of clients, I see no problem with that at all, happens every day in our business. I've shot non-exclusive content and was not aware who would license it until it was shot & edited so in that situation, there's no way to tell the model where her material would end up.

But if the producer leads the model to believe that she is shooting for one thing when she's actually shooting for something else, that's pretty fucked up. Of course it happens every day in this industry but my preference is to just be honest with the girls and tell them exactly how the material will be used. Some models don't care where the content will end up but many do in an effort to control their image. It takes a long time to build a solid reputation not only for producers but also for performers so I don't think it's too much to ask to be honest with the performers and tell them how their content will be used if it's known up front. That's what I'm say'n

Jim Gunn, Jim Gunn, Jim Gunn.

Yes I work in the adult business as a producer here in LA, and have since '05.
Just because YOU don't know me doesn't mean OTHERS don't, so don't be so quick to judge or assume I'm not even in the industry, Jim_Gunn.

Huh? Don't do business with/don't owe money to?? What are you even talking about?

I like to keep up on the events in the industry, because I am in the industry, so I read mikesouth.com, ********.com, xbiz.com, and avn.com. Sometimes, gramponante.com.

I don't see how me reading ********, seeing an interesting story about Bobby Manilla and Jayden James, and posting it here is me trying to "instigate trouble" ?

When I asked what's up with this Bobby Manila guy, I was seriously asking!!! I first met him at avn in '06 (the only time I met him) and he told me then that he is "very technical"; He went to film school, as did I.

I understand that Bobby then went on to shoot the early stuff for Brazzers, and claimed to invent their "style", then sued them.

I've heard girls for years say that he tries to fuck them. I've also heard other girls for years say that he's the coolest. Mary McCray (the last I knew) is his girlfriend, and she's great and fun to work with.

I know Donny Long specifically picked him out as someone NOT to really talk shit about in one of his ranting posts in his epic battle with ChristianXXX.

It still makes no sense to me, however, why he would want tease vids for his own personal use. SO, therefore, I'll repeat myself, "What's the deal with the Bobby Manila guy?"

You can see bobby manila's side of the story at his twitter.com/bobbymanila
From what he says...he is an independent contractor for Naughty America and pays for all his production cost and sells the bg scene to them.
He also shoots a 3 min interview and a 5 min tease for his Naughty America Affliate blog.
He paid her full rate of $1,500 and he shoots fast 4-5 hours.
I dont see any problem with that do you?

Umm who the fuck are you. Are u even un the biz

he says he is but he never says who he shoots for or posts samples.

Here is some thread kill for you...

good point however we don't know deal with Naughty A. ... near as I know his gear, his studio...

Bobby's been around for sometime shooting minding his biz as far as I can tell, and I say that because he doesn't really get involved in a bunch of sideline drama... my understanding is Bobby was the brazzers shoot, they hired some other guys, told Bobby to train them then fired him because the other guys were cheaper etc... so I guess he did create the 'brazzers look' but we both know brazzers would never do anything shitty to anyone right? yeah I hear about fucking the girls... so what? everybody fucks the girls...

That sounds about right, I think the issue with the firing revolved around him shooting for others too.

For him he was a contractor so he has to make money anyway he can.

This industry for the most part seems to suck everything out of everybody.
If he would of shot that stuff and took it took a dvd company he would be a multi millionaire

Its unfortunate, after being in this biz ten years I can see a real big difference between the online guys and the dvd guys.

Seems like everyone in this biz has their own shady way of doing things. It's a bit discouraging for someone with "youthful enthusiasm"...

Hard for me to comment on this in particular. If the clips are for what they're claimed to be, then I guess he's not as pervy as I initially thought after reading about this. Although, I don't necessarily agree with using the shoots as an opportunity to provide content for himself. What I mean is, if he makes any money from his blog promoting the scenes, I think the girls he's filming the clips of should be getting a cut of that. It seems that most of the girls are not aware that he's using those clips for his own benefit.

There is nothing pervy about Bobby. hes in it for the $$...he's a very likable person with a great personality.
10 years ago you made $$ cause you were the shooter and the dvd companies needed competent people. its the online people that basically marginalized the shooter

Now a guy like Bobby has to make up for the income with becoming a promoter and webmaster of the stuff he shoots....Its like a Hollywood director that has to go to the theater and put up posters to his movie that he made himself on the side. fuckin sad what has happened to this industry.

model generally don't get residuals

that website is like a kick in the balls

he's a janitor at the forum in LA, why do you ask?

I used to be like you Capture... a shooter who mainly shot exclusive stuff for a specific client and the model got told exactly where the content was going to be published. Times have changed daddy-o...

It's not at ALL tacky or un-profesh to hire a model for the day and shoot as much content for various clients as possible, it's called a General Release and its not new, this biz model goes back 20 plus years - models are informed prior to booking and its often for non-exclusive content that may sell to multiple sites in the future.

Models want day rates and they want to be told the numbers of scenes/sets and the number of hours they will be on site and as a fair content producer I tell them exactly that. I stick to the terms and they go away pleased and say nice things about me to friends and agents...everyones happy.

Your idea that you shoot a model for a specific client and THATS where the material is going to be seen...well...thats a little horse and buggy my man.

the whole thing is weird to me, less work, more models, price going up???

we never tell any model where the content will go - unless she has to wear some branded clothes or has to say the site name in a trailer

but otherwise it's simply not their business - they get paid, sign a release and that's it

First off, you can take your condescending attitude and shove it up your ass

Secondly, nothing has changed. If you know where the material will be used, you tell talent. Maybe they don't want to know or don't care - that's fine. But there are models who want to know, who do care how and where their material will be used. If you don't know yet where the material will go, you tell the model that. What you don't do, if you care about your reputation, is tell the model that she's shooting for one thing while you shoot her secretly for something else. That's what this conversation is about....

I think it's funny how fast this thread got side-tracked by guys who want to debate something so silly. As long as producers are honest about how the material will be used and the model is fine with that - I don't see any issues. This thread is about a girl who found out that she was shooting content for something other than what she was told...or so it appears

i think the bigger issue would be a shooter that shoots his own stuff while he and the model are paid by his employer

but since i dont know what the deal between him and NA is, that might be perfectly fine as well.

the biggest issue i see from this side of the planet is that some people seem to overestimate their relevance

I see this from my side of the planet as well. Everybody thinks that they're more relevant than they really are....it's just human nature

Hope you are well brotha'!

Serious over reaction as I meant nothing condescending...but this quote "Secondly, nothing has changed." Is very telling about you...

You meant nothing condescending yet you talk down to me like I have no idea what I'm talking about and you're now going to school me on how things should be done in this day and age?

WTF? There has been a lot of silliness written in this thread that I will address later, but for now, MaDalton, this is one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen you write on here, which is surprising because you are usually a reasonable fellow.

OF COURSE it is the models' business where the content will go/what it will be used for! It's their body, their likeness, their PERSON, why would it NOT be their business????????

AND,
MaDALTON: "the biggest issue i see from this side of the planet is that some people seem to overestimate their relevance" -...Which People?

even if you have been here in CZ I still think you have not realized the difference between LA porn and the rest of the world.

do you really think a model here in CZ cares what website her stuff will be on? 95% dont even bother to look at the pictures after the shoot. they take the cash and leave.

(almost) no one here cares to be a "star" - opposed to the LA scene where every porn chick that did 2 scenes already thinks she's a celebrity - and behaves like one

Ummm ok, so what is your point? for the 5% that DO care - do you tell them the truth? Of course you do (I assume)!

WHAT? Dude, stop with the ignorant posts! That is simply NOT TRUE, and you aren't here, so how would you know?

98% of the porn chicks here in LA, are sweet, cool, laid back, modest girls. They do NOT think they are celebrities and certainly don't behave as such...

of course we do - i still wait for one that asks though

worse every website design

I started shooting adult in LA in '89 and this issue has changed radically just over the last few years. Which is why I took such exception to Deans view that nothing has changed.

In the old days models and agents wanted to know exactly where the material was going to be distributed. I remember long conversations to clarify exactly what magazine or website the stuff would be for and getting explicit permission from the model for that venue etc.

These days models are barely curious to know where its all going, most of them have never heard of the sites or mags anyway and when I tell them they just shrug and start the shoot. Agents are cool with explaining to the models that its a "Content Shoot for Various Websites" - thats just what this biz has denigrated to, I'm not saying its a good thing..it's a matter of survival. Girls need to work, shooters need to shoot, this is the paradigm..get on board or punch a fucking clock.

I admit I was pissed when non-ex shooters destroyed the exclusive content biz, just as surely as the tubes and filelockers fucked up the game...but I said fuck it I want to eat too so I started selling non-ex and bam I'm making 3x earnings than I ever did shooting the old way.

So to summarize: The Non-Exclusive Content biz exists, it is valid. By definition it's not possible to tell the model where the content will be seen because you just simply do not know.

that's one thing - but in our case it's possible that over the course of one day we shoot one girl for 3-4 different exclusive clients (can also be small stuff - like 1 set) plus for ourselves which will end up later in our shop

if i would spend time explaining for each set where it will end up later (with non-exclusive not even possible like you said), i would waste half of the day on that.

and like i said - the girls dont ask, the agencies dont ask - why would i bother?

but i also dont have a fancy name as director and jerk off to reading my name in press releases

Ma Dalton you nailed it.

I may have a full day with a girl and shoot her for 4 different clients exclusive and then try to get 1 or 2 sets for my non-ex sales. I learned this from the late great J. Stephen Hicks who would have the girl signing 4 or 5 release forms at the end of each day. I do it with one big release but its just as valid.

I make sure this is all clear with agent and model days prior to the shoot, can't waste precious time on the shoot day.

So you took exception to my view so that's why you replied in a condescending manner....and then said that you didn't?

This has not been my experience at all. But I can appreciate that not every producer has the same experiences that I have....

If you would have bothered to read my other posts on this issue before you stuck your foot in your mouth...you would have seen that I fully agree with you on your statement here. Funny how you think that because you don't tell the girls where their content will go that this is how all producers must operate, or they are living in the past.

Your business model is not everybodies business model. There is more than one way to produce content and each requires a different in approach. There are also different catagories of models that require a different approach. You can get away with shooting an amateur with little to no info but a model who has been around a while may want more info on where and how her material will be used. Thus, a difference of approach.

If a model or agent asked me where the content would be used and I replied telling them that it's none of their business, I would probably be flipping burgers right now as a full time profession. Yea, maybe you can get away with it but not everybody can.... and that's my point.

And just for future reference, if you disagree or take exception to my views, we can still have a mature conversation without you acting like a douche and talking down to me like I have no fucking idea what I'm doing and I need to be schooled by you on how this business operates

WOW!! Interesting thread.


1st off I have known Bobby for 10 years. He is one of the few guys who I talk with on the phone regularly. Over 10 years we have never had an argument or disagreement.


We see and view this industry the same way. I will always believe Bobby over anyone. Thats how well I know him.


Does he make mistakes? Sure, we all do. Did he make a mistake in this situation? Not at all.


How do I know this? Because I had almost the same exact experience with the same model. I know 6 other directors that had the same experience as well.


On my set, I was perfect. Let her do what she wanted, let her choose who she wanted to work with. Hair make up, etc.


She complained about anything and everything. Script, outfit, make up, time, etc. Verbally abused and teased my PA with Malice enough where he never wanted to be on set with her again, if we were to shoot her.

I put up with a lot of shit that day and handled it with a smile. It way sucked!! She was also talking about how much she hated being in porn and how she charged me $300 more than other companies.


My company wanted her shot, so money wasn't an issue. But if you don't want to be there, why take the job?



Before I worked with her I knew her when she was with PUBA. Her and Ivan were close friends. When she left PUBA, she slammed Ivan and PUBA in an article with a bunch of untruths.


Now anyone who knows Ivan; Can tell you that he is the utmost classiest guy in this business. Would never lie, would never steal, would never be part of a company that would ever be invoked in anything of the sort. And further more, he has never slept or acted inappropriate with any of his models or any model ever!! Yes not a one!! Dated one model like 6 years ago and only dates girls not in this business.


And for this particular girl to go after him for anything other than being a good guy and class act and good friend, is really sad.


Another story I also heard from a top rated Super Solid reputation Director was: She and the director had a disagreement because of last minute changes that were not controllable. She could have just declined the shoot, taken the Kill Fees and been done with it. Keep in mind, This is after everyone was flown in and hotels were paid for.


After turning down the shoot and taking the kill fee, she went on a few public boards complaining about what went down with unnecessary drama added to it.

But the most classless thing that got posted, was this directors girl friend had a miscarriage of his child and she went on to post that "His girlfriend was real smart to go run off and abort his child secretly". Who spits out venom like that?? Not nice, not professional and just plain mean!


I knew all of the above when I went to work with her and thought I could kill what ever she through at me with kindness. And I did and I got the scene done. And the scene looked great.


But Dealing with what I dealt with and keeping my mouth shut, made me physically ill. Literally, i was sick to my stomach after the shoot. Physically Nauseous from what I dealt with.


Nobody has ever treated me like she did or speak to me as she did, and not get punched or beat. (I would never ever hit a woman ever!!) I always have chosen to walk away from situations like that, but I couldn't this time.


This is how I look at it:

When Im shooting for a company, I represent that company. If I'm mad or upset, nobody will ever know about it.



So when I see this thread, I laugh my ass off because everyone who actually shoots knows this about this particular person.


We all talk and we all know who is capable of what.



Bobby knew all of this getting into it, but he chose to kill the scene and end his pain oppose to getting, verbally abused, physically sick and being a BITCH.


Could he of handled it better??? Of course, he should have not booked in the 1st place.


Bad Bobby!!! You should have known!! lol


I bet I get some kind of back lash for being totally honest and upfront.


My reputation is Super Solid!!


Just Dave



End of Thread!!

I jerk off to your name MA!!!

some models are awesome and some aren't... suffers will always side with the model in every instance ...

For sure!


Ohh and what Extra Thing Bobby was shooting was a simple 2 min, teaser clip for his Naughty America Fan Blog.

Not jerk off material, not shit to be resold.


I asked her to do 4 pics, for 4 Fan signs that I was going to post on the Company forum, for the fans that I shoot for. She asked me "how much extra do I get paid?"


I said: "Don't sweat it, all good." She said: "The fans already have enough Fan Signs"


And It was simple as that. Until I relayed what happened on set to the fans and explained why I didn't get their fan signs.


That was my mistake. I should have lied and said I forgot. Hate lying and bullshitting people.



Just Dave

Respect

Posting a tweet about striptease footage and passing it off as news.



The whole thing is ridiculous

yup... best way to handle models and fans for sure... honestly I can only think of very few models that wouldn't jump right in, tease the camera for a blog... oh well...

My 2 cents from an agents perspective, and a note of credibility for my friend and client Bobby Manilla.

Bobby contacted our agency a few weeks ago disclosing and informing us of his desire and intentions to shoot a couple 3 - 5 min clips for his blog, in addition to the main scene production. So, for ATMLA represented models, they will be fully informed of the exact details of the shoot requirements. We do that in every booking. Naughty America produces high quality scenes and always pays models rates.

As far as Bobby's usage of this extra footage, allow me to enlighten all of you to the benefit of what he is doing for everyone involved.. this includes the models, the production companies, and just about everyone who are in this industry to make some money.

Consider the fact that if Bobby takes the extra time and effort to run a blog that sends traffic and sales to NA ( or any other affiliate program that he shoots for ) He not only sustains the affiliate marketing aspect which as we all know has declined tremendously over the years, but he also sustains sales to NA, which sustains their business and can only result in continued production. For the model in particular, its even more advantageous, the blog is all about her, creating and sustaining the fan base which drives up the desire and demand for other production companies to shoot her. The more traffic and sales that is generated specifically from that model is one of the leading determinations that production companies use to select models for their productions. Its exposure!! Any and all exposure for the model IMHO is a positive thing.

With all that being said, I am not at all aware of just what Jayden Jaymes was aware or informed of going into the shoot. Perhaps there was some miscommunication involved, that does happen, were all human. I sincerely dont think there was any intended harm or deception involved. Bottom line for me is its nice to see some creative thought process involved with production that can only benefit the entire industry.