questions and answers about non payments

[cyberpunk]

Hey guys..

If you a contract with someone that didn't live up to thier end of the agreement and it cost you $ would you

a) walk away from them peacefully
b) take 'em to court
c) beat there fuckin ass
d) some combo of the above

Well the cyberpunk skool of though is to just kick there fuckin ass. But since business is business and jail would slow that down.

And since you guy always have opinions and with only ½ the facts, I though it would be an interesting exercise to give u all the fact and let u decide. Now I?m now saying I?ll take your advice but I?ll let it weigh in. It might help this poor useless fuck out.


I?ve actully got 2 issues with 2 different people but we?ll see how this goes.

In October and agreement was reached between my self and Ian X. aka gothweb. We?d help him grow his sites and keep them alive since he didn?t have the 750$ for the VISA stuff. At first we all though this would be a good idea. As it turns out, Ian felt he should get paid a salary for doing nothing in addition to the % he?d get on the sites we now co-managed.

Ian never actually did any work for DarkDollars and was there for never an employee, however when I was having issues with this he started posting shit on GFY, inferring he a problem with us. Not wanting to have him suffer thogh the holidays with no cash, I send him $ via paypal, form him I got a msg saying this ?token? isn?t something he wanted and he demanded to be paid this salary, again for a job he never started.

So he gets back from the US to the UK and now demands to be paid for this vacatoin time too 

Pretty funny huh, I?m still tryin to keep professional about this, all this time I?ve hosted his shit FREE, including after I told him we?d no longer have a marketing agreement for his sites, so he could get move somewhere with out down time. So today I read him takin shots on the FREE hosting he?s been getting, and takin more jabs at me on GFY. We?ll Ian, I think I told you before to never try to fuck me. Long before we agreed to work tougher. Before we agreed on the terms the I let you write out so you?d not feel taking advantage of, well it seems you don?t take advice well.


So here we are, you on several ocassions broke your NDA, which, contract to some of you wanna be lawyers out there do actully hold up quite well. You caused me loss of buiness by pissing off people I was working with. You violated the agreement we had, cause a breach on your side, and there by nullafying it. And you though it back in my face when I try to help you out. So you want to play I?m all for that how?s this.

So with that I?ve shut off your hosting. And I?m gonna gonna let the kidz here help me decide if I should be kind enough to give you back the Ccbill acct that is now legally mine. Remember those Ccbill change of ownership foums you singed and faxed?

Sorry for the long post, but WTF it?s a Sunday For what its worth Sykk thinks I shold just give it back and tell you to GFY, but I really want you to live with agreement you made!

[Probono]

I my humble opinion these disputes do not belong in a public forum. Settle them in court or with boxing gloves but unless they effect a broader community of more then two people keep them private.

[gothweb]

Nice, Jim, nice. Should I put up a copy of our contract on here? The part where you agreed to a salary, the part where it made it clear that my job working for you was to run my sites? The part where it says upon termination, I still get paid? You wrote parts of the contract, and were supposed to have read it all. Did you read it before you signed it?

[Backov]

Ick, I sure hope you didn't sign away your CCBill account ownership. Not smart, and I can't believe the darkdollars guys wanted that from you.

This looks like it will be one of those threads where neither party should be opening their mouth. With that said, let the drama commence.

[Sly_RJ]

Guys, I have work to do tonight. Can this wait till the morning?

[gothweb]

Originally posted by Backov
Ick, I sure hope you didn't sign away your CCBill account ownership. Not smart, and I can't believe the darkdollars guys wanted that from you.

This looks like it will be one of those threads where neither party should be opening their mouth. With that said, let the drama commence.

All I want is the money I am owed, and the return of the account. I don't want this to be a Special Olympics moment. I didn't want an enemy over this.

All this takes to end this is to pay me. Legally, that's 50% of (edit: net after cc and affiliates) sales plus a weekly base pay. Only comes to $3000 right now. Actually, legally, the contract says if they terminate I get paid 6 months in a lump. But I said I wouldn't take it that far. At this point, I would even take 100% of the money he brought in on the CCBill account. That and the account, and I would write this off as a bad experience.

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by gothweb
Nice, Jim, nice. Should I put up a copy of our contract on here? The part where you agreed to a salary, the part where it made it clear that my job working for you was to run my sites? The part where it says upon termination, I still get paid? You wrote parts of the contract, and were supposed to have read it all. Did you read it before you signed it?

I could but since its about 7 pages long, I felt it was a bit much, if anyone seriously wanted it I can have that arranged.

Mmmm on your points, you never started to do anything, you never even started to get the content into the damn database so we could promote the sites Hell even your GFY sig pointed to your site so you could get a % for refering WM's and you consider that working for me Nice can someone give me a job like that. There is a termination agree but 2 things 1) you never started and 2) you violated the agreement

I would have though that by the level of educatoin you have you could have understood simple casue and effect.

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by Backov
Ick, I sure hope you didn't sign away your CCBill account ownership. Not smart, and I can't believe the darkdollars guys wanted that from you.

This looks like it will be one of those threads where neither party should be opening their mouth. With that said, let the drama commence.

He did, he had to he didn;t have the $ to pay for visa so we offered to help him out.

[gothweb]

Originally posted by cyberpunk



I could but since its about 7 pages long, I felt it was a bit much, if anyone seriously wanted it I can have that arranged.

Mmmm on your points, you never started to do anything, you never even started to get the content into the damn database so we could promote the sites Hell even your GFY sig pointed to your site so you could get a % for refering WM's and you consider that working for me Nice can someone give me a job like that. There is a termination agree but 2 things 1) you never started and 2) you violated the agreement

I would have though that by the level of educatoin you have you could have understood simple casue and effect.

I don't see why we should argue this in public. Why have you not been in touch with me for weeks and weeks about this interesting interpretation?

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
Guys, I have work to do tonight. Can this wait till the morning?

Sorry, I had no plans to take it to GFY but it seems Ian felt this way was better.

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by gothweb


I don't see why we should argue this in public. Why have you not been in touch with me for weeks and weeks about this interesting interpretation?

Did you read your ealier posts, do you not think that was takin shots at me and my company. Your the one that fuckin started this shit.

[gothweb]

Originally posted by cyberpunk



Did you read your ealier posts, do you not think that was takin shots at me and my company. Your the one that fuckin started this shit.

I kept your names out of it. At least one person I was talking to seemed to think it was about a content deal. Until you said it was you who was fucking me, nobody could be sure.

[Nina]

None of you should be posting this here. It looks bad for all parties involved.

[Dveron]

Can we start this thread over with a proper poll.. I like to click the little buttons.

[cyberpunk]

Sorry I ment to add a poll but forget when I dediced to run it though spell checker first

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by Nina
None of you should be posting this here. It looks bad for all parties involved.

Your problly right, but I'm one of those kids that don't like people fuckin with me, and I'd rather ruin my fuckin business then let someone do that. Cuttin off my nose to spite my face, maybe, but that the kinda playground I grew up on.

[gothweb]

What would you do, Jim, if not a word was said for weeks and you weren't getting paid? The sites are like 80% of my income. I'm not a wealthy guy. You fucked me, and you did it with barely a word to me. Yes, I tried to get your attention, but I had no intention of a public showdown or even mentioning your name. Why not talk with me, rather than taking it this far?

[mrthumbs]

Originally posted by cyberpunk



I could but since its about 7 pages long, I felt it was a bit much, if anyone seriously wanted it I can have that arranged.

[gothweb]

I'm not trying to fuck with you. I am trying to get paid... Something I just found out you were definitely not going to do, when I read this thread. I don't want a fight. I want the lost income, and to salvage somethign of a decent split.

[Sly_RJ]

I was the dude who thought this ordeal was over content.

Just thought I'd clear that up...

[[Labret]]

At least you dont have to worry about him kicking your ass. Goth guys cant fight.

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by gothweb
What would you do, Jim, if not a word was said for weeks and you weren't getting paid? The sites are like 80% of my income. I'm not a wealthy guy. You fucked me, and you did it with barely a word to me. Yes, I tried to get your attention, but I had no intention of a public showdown or even mentioning your name. Why not talk with me, rather than taking it this far?

So then your admiting that you posted on GFY to draw me out. No word had I not told you in email that I'd give you time FREE to get things moved? Have you told me where to more it. No, you bash the hosting and take cheep shots. Sorry, I wanted to take this much farther but I was in a pretty good mood this week and Sykk was able to calm me down.

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by [Labret]
At least you dont have to worry about him kicking your ass. Goth guys cant fight.

Tis OK, I was never worried, my dad is an old union guy ;)

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
I was the dude who thought this ordeal was over content.

Just thought I'd clear that up...

[gothweb]

Originally posted by cyberpunk




So then your admiting that you posted on GFY to draw me out. No word had I not told you in email that I'd give you time FREE to get things moved? Have you told me where to more it. No, you bash the hosting and take cheep shots. Sorry, I wanted to take this much farther but I was in a pretty good mood this week and Sykk was able to calm me down.

I don't even know how to deal with this explosion. Not sure where to start.

1.) Yes, I wanted you to realize you needed to pay me. I didn't need the whole world to know who wasn't paying me, but you didn't answer my email.

2.) You said I had 7 days to move, I said we needed to talk about payment, and that I might need more time, and that the contract said 30 days termination not 7. You didn't reply. So I have been looking for hosting.

3.) When and where did I bash your hosting?

[gothweb]

Originally posted by [Labret]
At least you dont have to worry about him kicking your ass. Goth guys cant fight.

It's true. I'm a big wimp.

[<IMX>]

Nobody is going to come out looking good.

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by gothweb


I don't even know how to deal with this explosion. Not sure where to start.

1.) Yes, I wanted you to realize you needed to pay me. I didn't need the whole world to know who wasn't paying me, but you didn't answer my email.

2.) You said I had 7 days to move, I said we needed to talk about payment, and that I might need more time, and that the contract said 30 days termination not 7. You didn't reply. So I have been looking for hosting.

3.) When and where did I bash your hosting?

1) Well now everyone is on the same page

2) you where in breach of the agreement

3) Do I really need to dig up the thread.



Tell you want if enough people here think I should turnthe hosting back on for you, consider it done, like I said, I 'm in a good mood this week

[Loch]

Pick up the phone and fucking talk to each other GEEZ!

[Pete]

What a joke

[gothweb]

I don't want to argue in public. It makes us look stupid, or worse. More importantly, though it isn't anyone else's business. We should be able to work this out, without me having to explain my perspective on things to everyone, in order for you to see it. Why don't you at least get on AIM or ICQ, so we can talk to eachother about this?

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by gothweb
I don't want to argue in public. It makes us look stupid, or worse. More importantly, though it isn't anyone else's business. We should be able to work this out, without me having to explain my perspective on things to everyone, in order for you to see it. Why don't you at least get on AIM or ICQ, so we can talk to eachother about this?

Not as much fun when the other side it public to is it?


So does anyone think I should turn the hosting back on, I mean all it takes is a few kinda souls and he's back online?

[gothweb]

Originally posted by cyberpunk


1) Well now everyone is on the same page

2) you where in breach of the agreement

3) Do I really need to dig up the thread.



Tell you want if enough people here think I should turnthe hosting back on for you, consider it done, like I said, I 'm in a good mood this week

1.) That's a first.

2.) I think its safe to say that non-payment is more of a breach that what you are considering my breach. My job was to run my sites. I did. The only two complains you had about my work was that I didn't think an email about a plug-in was a priority, and that I didn't use your content management system-- which I was waiting for something from you to use.

3) Sure. I will admit that I haven't been happy with the hosting service, but I never slammed your hosting.

[Backov]

Will Darkdollars link to this thread when in the future they're attempting to take struggling goth sites under their wing?

This is not doing your reputation any good, Cyber and Sykk. None at all. It's in your best interest to end this amicably, and be the bigger men, asap.

Cheers,
Backov

[Sly_RJ]

Jim, I've heard some good things about you, I don't want to think otherwise after this thread.

Turn on the hosting, call Ian, and handle the situation.

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by Backov
Will Darkdollars link to this thread when in the future they're attempting to take struggling goth sites under their wing?

This is not doing your reputation any good, Cyber and Sykk. None at all. It's in your best interest to end this amicably, and be the bigger men, asap.

Cheers,
Backov

Backov, atleast in this thread both sides are posted. Its sad, I agree, I had really wanted to work this out.

[gothweb]

Originally posted by cyberpunk


Not as much fun when the other side it public to is it?


So does anyone think I should turn the hosting back on, I mean all it takes is a few kinda souls and he's back online?

This is far more public. We're arguing, here in public. If we sat down alone, we might not be able to make any progress at all. Here, its just a joke. I think you owe me money, and I think I have a reasonable explanation to prove it. However, neither of us needs fiddly little details spewing all over GFY. You have pretty much refused to talk to me. Do you want to do this in public?

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
Jim, I've heard some good things about you, I don't want to think otherwise after this thread.

Turn on the hosting, call Ian, and handle the situation.

See I can be reasonable, you;ll notice the img's work now, I turned his hosting back on

[gothweb]

Originally posted by cyberpunk


Backov, atleast in this thread both sides are posted. Its sad, I agree, I had really wanted to work this out.

Me to. I didn't intend to create more hostility, though I guess I did. What I want is to talk about this. So far, my emails and phone calls have been ignored. If you want to work it out, you should have proven it. Still, better late than never. Do you want to talk? Maybe we can work this out, and chalk the hostility up to a long day and frazzled nerves. I'd sure prefer that to making an enemy needlessly.

[Brujah]

I'd turn the hosting back on, until he moved all his sites or until the end of the month whichever came first.

If he never really started, I'd give him the ccbill account back and whatever the account earned during that time that he didn't receive, minus whatever I felt I deserved for the hassle, bullshit, and marketing. Add a base salary ? No fucking way.

Did he not want to take this public ? He's not stupid. He knew what he was doing with his previous post, and it worked. He got a reply which seems to be what he was looking for.

[Backov]

Ian X, Sykkboy and Cyberpunk make up in an emotional scene.

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by Backov


Ian X, Sykkboy and Cyberpunk make up in an emotional scene.

Naw I'm way fatter then any of those guys

[gothweb]

Originally posted by Brujah
I'd turn the hosting back on, until he moved all his sites or until the end of the month whichever came first.

If he never really started, I'd give him the ccbill account back and whatever the account earned during that time that he didn't receive, minus whatever I felt I deserved for the hassle, bullshit, and marketing. Add a base salary ? No fucking way.

Did he not want to take this public ? He's not stupid. He knew what he was doing with his previous post, and it worked. He got a reply which seems to be what he was looking for.

Since the contract was for running my sites, only under their program, I can't see how it can be said I hadn't sterted. I feel that *should* be the salary we negotiated, including percentage and base pay. However, if he wants to talk about some alternate sum, I can do that.

[gothweb]

Originally posted by cyberpunk




Naw I'm way fatter then any of those guys

... and I don't appear in publuc with more skin exposed than my forearms and head. ;) Naked outdoors?! Egads.

[gothweb]

I am still waiting to hear from you, Jim. Do you want to work something out? I would call, but when I called earlier, I was told it was a wrong number. I would ICQ but I don't see you online.

[Mr.Fiction]

This thread is more emo than goth.

[gothweb]

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
This thread is more emo than goth.

Sometimes I hate this decade.

[cyberpunk]

Originally posted by gothweb
I am still waiting to hear from you, Jim. Do you want to work something out? I would call, but when I called earlier, I was told it was a wrong number. I would ICQ but I don't see you online.

I'll email you in the am, with my decision. For the record, this will be my offer, and only offer to settle this. IT will be more then FAIR IMO. Feel free to post it on GFY if u feel the need I've got nothing to hide.

[gothweb]

Fair enough. It is getting pretty late here. I would prefer to talk things out, since I think you totally misunderstand what we signed, but getting an offer is better than nothing.

For the record, some numbers to consider...

1.) If you paid me what the termination clause says, it would come to about $5000, since if you terminate I am paid for a 6-month term.

2.) I am asking for only $3000, what the contract says I should have been paid up until this point. (Remember, you agreed to the base pay to account for sales I generate, and that you and Sykkboy wrote the termination clause which says I am owed more.)

3.) You know how much you have taken in via CCBill, since you got control of my account and nearly all of my income.

[gothweb]

This has been floating in my head for a while now. I wonder if I can make sense of it...

Why does a contract have a termination clause, with what happens when the contract ends spelled out, if one party can simply decide it is over and do whatever he wants? I do not see why you feel you are not bound by the termination clause, even if you were right in saying I didn't fulfill my end.