IF GZ hadn't had a gun would ...

And as if after punching him multiple times, slamming his head into the pavement and seeing the gun he is going to pause and take the time to say "you are going to die tonight" to Zimmerman. As if criminals really do that right before they get ready to blow you away with your own weapon.

On top of this Zimmerman must also have a pretty hard head to not be razzled pretty bad from being slammed into the pavement so many times and punched. But no he heard what Trayvon said perfectly and was able to fight back. Trayvan couldn't stop him at all from shooting him.

I believe GZ was probably in fear for his life but like I said I think parts of his story is bullshit meant to save his own ass.

I like pointing out the obvious.

George told the FIRST neighbor on the scene "I had to shoot him in self defense", he also told the police and anyone who would listen (his best friend who wrote a book about it) that TM was smothering him. This devolved from TM leaning on him with all his weight while covering his mouth, to his defense lawyer saying "maybe it was a shirt sleeve brushing his face".. he also says that TM said "you're going to die tonight" but nobody heard that in the echo-chamber between buildings. He also said TM got HOLD of his gun which devolved into him saying that he was REACHING for his gun. He also told his story of his head being SLAMMED 20 or 30 times which devolved into a few times and his head injuries could have happened from as few as 4 blows which even the defense admitted.

This guy NEEDED us to believe he was in fear for his life since the moment it happened. He KNEW he needed to get it out there early and get it out there often. It's weird because the truth doesn't require any believers and will make itself known in time.

It did, you just missed it.

He was a dumb 17yo kid. Most kids are dumb at that age. Factor in the fact that he was a wannabe thug and on the phone getting riled up with his friend and maybe he did say it in a moment of stupidity.

Here's where the problem begins. Everyone speaks like they were there and saw the action unfold first hand.

There were two people who saw the events of that evening. One of which is now deceased. Everything is speculation. Did you actually witness Zimmerman following him to start a confrontation?

Not that I agree with either side, but come on people. Stop being lead by the media and what you believe happened. Emotions and presumptions cannot convict someone.

I don't think I've seen anyone in the media talk about the problem with the "You are going to die tonight" claim. I spotted that as soon as I first heard it. That's not how it normally goes down. There are so many problems with GZ's story. The whole idea that TM would say that while GZ still his the gun and AFTER being confronted by the male neighbor who yelled "stop!" and stated that he was calling the police is pretty crazy.

Did Trayvon really intend to shoot Zimmerman and get away when he knew neighbors were watching and that the cops were on the way? When he lived right down the street int he next building? And why? Because GZ followed him? ... He had no criminal record. Contrary to the way some racists paint it Trayvon Martin was not a hardcore criminal thug gang banger. He was a kid still in school.

It's just thinking for yourself here. The media has nothing to do with me questioning these things. It's common sense that most people wouldn't threaten to kill someone when they are unarmed and the other guy still has a weapon. It's common sense to question the self defense claim when every aspect of his story is almost too good to be true and "the perfect self defense claim".

Gun or no gun, the problem lies in the fact that Zimmerman chose to exit his vehicle and follow TM to begin with, and no media spin or claims of media bias can refute that.

There is audio recording of the 911 dispatcher specifically telling Zimmerman to not leave his vehicle. The end result of the night is proof that Zimmerman didn't listen.

Is it far fetched to believe that Zimmerman felt more confident in exiting his vehicle and following Martin since he was carrying? I know I would feel more confident and secure following someone if I was armed. I don't think it's unfair to assume Zimmerman felt the same way. We know Z was instructed not to follow. And we know he did. These are facts. And you didn't have to "be there" to know that. So not everything in this discussion is people being misled by the media.

I think it's pretty damn cut and dry that if Zimmerman had followed instruction and remained in his vehicle, we'd have a completely different situation today.

If you watch the video of zimmerman with the police Video at 2:55 look were zimmerman shows were his gun is.

There is no way possible the kid could see the gun if he had him mounted or zimmerman could of got to it

Yet the prosecution's own investigators agreed that GZ's statements were overall consistent.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07...n-martin-day-7

Here's a couple of links that should give you something to think about the people fanning the fires of the case
http://nationalreview.com/article/35...rida-john-fund
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2...y-director-who

Ok but exiting and following is not a crime. No one would be locked up for doing that. Was it dumb, sure, was it a crime, no. If you look at the map, he was doubling back towards his car. Trayvon was heading towards his house. No crime was committed yet.

If Zimmerman didn't have a firearm.... It's entirely possible he wouldn't have ever left his car...

If Zimmerman didn't have a firearm he would have gotten a bloody lip... Police were already on their way, and witnesses were arriving on the scene to break it up when Zimmerman shot him.

Playing Devil's advocate, one could also argue that IF GZ didn't have a firearm TM might have beaten him to death. It only takes one good blow to the head and it can be permanent lights out.

Oh the wonderful world of ifs...

Never seen a topic that makes so many (sometimes) reasonable semi intelligent people spout such nonsense.

Signupdamnit says Trayvon would not have threatened to kill GZ before grabbing the gun. This is totally believable. A dumb thug beating the crap out of the smaller neighborhood watch guy, on top, in control, not a mark on him, thinking he's the baddest No Limit N**ga on the block yo, figures he's in charge and maybe seen too many movies. Overconfident, he speaks before acting.

Nobody talks about the fact that Trayvon had a history of petty crimes, and there's a decent chance his black high ass was out to commit some more that night just like he seemed to be about to do by GZ.

You speak of him being a thug and having a history of petty crimes but read this link on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...Trayvon_Martin

He was NEVER even charged with a crime in his life let alone convicted. He has a school disciplinary record but it's all just Bart Simpson type stuff. Pot, Graffiti, and being tardy. In one instance a search by the school showed him to have women's jewelry and a screwdriver. But he was never charged with anything because there was no evidence he actually did anything wrong.

When I was 17 I was probably much worse than the above. We did pot all the time, we drank like crazy - sometimes all night, I think I missed 50 days my senior year. I was probably suspended over 10 times. I also fucked a bit with some school equipment in some minor ways. And maybe if school officials searched me at times they would have found some weird stuff. Maybe even a screwdriver. So what? Chances are if I had a screwdriver it was for fixing my car or some other thing. Big deal. It didn't mean I was a burglar or a thief. I grew up fairly normal. I don't have a criminal record. I've never been arrested. I'm not a "thug". So why is Trayvon? Because he was a young black kid who acted like many 17 year olds do?

To hear some of you talk you would think Trayvon Martin had a record of dealing crack, murdering people in drive by shootings, assaults, and burglary. But that's not the case at all.