Self defense

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  • Mutt
    Too lazy to set a custom title
    • Sep 2002
    • 34431
    #1

    Self defense

    The Zimmerman case got me thinking about the defense of 'self defense'.

    If I'm at the grocery store and some douchebag pushes me and cuts in front of me at the checkout, i'm pissed, he pays for his groceries and exits, 2 minutes later I exit the store and he's there and i say to him 'you're an asshole' and he replies 'fuck off crybaby' and i walk over and get in his face, one of us pushes the other and we start wrestling/punching, pretty much a mutual agreement to fight and as we're wrestling he gets the upper hand on me and has me on the ground and is punching my face, if I have a gun and can get to it I can shoot him? that's self defense?

    that is insane if true - one person could think to himself as he's getting his face punched in 'this guy is stronger than me and he's going to keep punching my face in and hell he could cause my brain to hemmorhage, oh my god i'm gonna die' and another person, one who is tougher or stupider has probably been in fights before and all he's worried about is how bad his face is going to be messed up, it doesn't enter his mind that the beating he's taking could kill him.

    how many physical altercations without weapons happen a year, probably tens of thousands, and how many deaths result from those type of altercations? probably a very small percentage.

    Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon Martin saw his gun and was going for it - and why he grabbed it before Martin could get it and used it. I believe Zimmerman's story except that part, I think he was getting beaten in a fist fight with a teenager, possibly panicked and grabbed his gun and shot the kid. I don't believe it was self defense.
    I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!
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    • TheSquealer
      Mayor of Thneedville
      • Oct 2004
      • 26174
      #2
      The laws and definitions vary from state to state. There is no blanket "yes" or "no" answer. Regardless of the hypotheticals, you still have to argue your case in court.

      Some states make it very easy to shoot people. Texas is one for example. You might recall the hooker that got shot for walking out with 150.00 of the clients money and the guy got off.
      Last edited by TheSquealer; 07-11-2013, 08:44 PM.
      .
      Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

      Rochard

        Comment

        • Rochard
          Jägermeister Test Pilot
          • Dec 2001
          • 75733
          #3
          There is no single answer.

          I am a former Marine, so my definition of self defense means the other person is armed with some kind of weapon that can create "great bodily harm".

          Sorry, but you shouldn't be able to use deadly force when someone punches you. That's overkill. And killing.
          Herschel Savage
          Brooklyn, NY

            Comment

            • TCLGirls
              Confirmed User
              • Feb 2010
              • 3068
              #4
              Usually the initial aggressor (physical) loses the defense of "self defense". So in your scenario, it would need to be determined who actually initiated the physical portion of the confrontation.

                Comment

                • venus
                  Confirmed User
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 3112
                  #5
                  when I took my concealed weapons course, and Arizona is a no retreat state, all this is, or is suppose to be explained to you. Not everyone is the same size, if Mike Tyson comes up to you and says he is gonna beat you to death with his bear hands, and you feel that he is capable of it, and assaults you, then you have every legal right to defend your self with deadly force. You can be all macho and go toe to toe with him, the result will probably be he wins, and with his size and strength, he may be able to kill or seriously injure you just by punching you...
                  but if some little guy says that to you and you and bigger and stronger, you would have less of a case of using deadly force if all you had to do was push him down and he runs away.

                  now if a girl is walking to her car and a bunch of guys surround her, and she feels they are going to harm her, she has the right to pull her stuff and open up on them.

                  the thing is to use common sense, if someone hits you and walks away, they are no longer a threat, you call the police.. It was also made really clear, that if you start something with someone, you better not pull out your gun. You cannot start an altercation and then assume you can just pull out a gun if it does not go your way. A gun is for self defense.


                  Originally posted by Rochard
                  There is no single answer.

                  I am a former Marine, so my definition of self defense means the other person is armed with some kind of weapon that can create "great bodily harm".

                  Sorry, but you shouldn't be able to use deadly force when someone punches you. That's overkill. And killing.
                  Muscle/Fitness Adult Affiliate Program
                  Since 1997 www.venuscash.com

                    Comment

                    • mromro
                      So Fucking Banned
                      • Jan 2011
                      • 770
                      #6
                      My friend got punched once and almost died.

                        Comment

                        • TheSquealer
                          Mayor of Thneedville
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 26174
                          #7
                          Originally posted by mromro
                          My friend got punched once and almost died.
                          Yeah, this is why if you lay a hand on someone, you go to jail almost anywhere in the US... with no if's and's or buts. It's true in Dutch Harbor Alaska just as much as its true in some swamp villiage in Louisiana.

                          Clearly the law everywhere has a very harsh view of physical assault
                          .
                          Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

                          Rochard

                            Comment

                            • Juicy D. Links
                              So Fucking Banned
                              • Apr 2001
                              • 122992
                              #8
                              Originally posted by TheSquealer
                              Yeah, this is why if you lay a hand on someone, you go to jail almost anywhere in the US... with no if's and's or buts. It's true in Dutch Harbor Alaska just as much as its true in some swamp villiage in Louisiana.

                              Clearly the law everywhere has a very harsh view of physical assault


                              that "depends"............. it can be "harassment" .... depends on how much you got fucked up....

                                Comment

                                • dyna mo
                                  just a fucking jerk
                                  • Dec 2008
                                  • 68184
                                  #9
                                  any of you homos touch me, and i'll kill you.

                                    Comment

                                    • TheSquealer
                                      Mayor of Thneedville
                                      • Oct 2004
                                      • 26174
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by Juicy D. Links
                                      that "depends"............. it can be "harassment" .... depends on how much you got fucked up....
                                      I'm not aware of someone punching someone else in the face and it being called harassment in any state or city. If thats true, i want to live there. I'd be "harassing" people all day long.
                                      Last edited by TheSquealer; 07-12-2013, 07:09 AM.
                                      .
                                      Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

                                      Rochard

                                        Comment

                                        • L-Pink
                                          working on my tan
                                          • Mar 2005
                                          • 39151
                                          #11
                                          5ft.-10, 175 pounds …… The average size of a Navy Seal team member.


                                          .

                                            Comment

                                            • Juicy D. Links
                                              So Fucking Banned
                                              • Apr 2001
                                              • 122992
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by TheSquealer
                                              I'm not aware of someone punching someone else in the face and it being called harassment in any state or city. If thats true, i want to live there. I'd be "harassing" people all day long.
                                              Day after Hurricane Sandy in NY I got punched once guy got in car then took off , we had plates and so forth and witnesss...

                                              Maybe it was just because of the chaos at the time of the hurricane but my options were limited and I was taken to ER and given stitches and the works...


                                              It was classic road rage incident and since he didnt hit my car at the Intersection and took off there was no "hit n run" to consider...
                                              Last edited by Juicy D. Links; 07-12-2013, 07:21 AM.

                                                Comment

                                                • L-Pink
                                                  working on my tan
                                                  • Mar 2005
                                                  • 39151
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by Juicy D. Links
                                                  Day after Hurricane Sandy in NY I got punched once guy got in car then took off
                                                  NY version of "tag, you're it?"


                                                  .

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Juicy D. Links
                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                      • Apr 2001
                                                      • 122992
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                      NY version of "tag, you're it?"


                                                      .

                                                        Comment

                                                        • dyna mo
                                                          just a fucking jerk
                                                          • Dec 2008
                                                          • 68184
                                                          #15
                                                          the only self-defense that's important to me is my home defense. got that covered. on the streets, i walk away, never confrontational. i think i've realized nothing on the streets, in the grocery store, etc, is important enough to become emotionally invested in.

                                                          nothing to argue, by all means, you first. :-) but i do keep my head on a swivel.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • bronco67
                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                              • Dec 2006
                                                              • 29032
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by Mutt
                                                              The Zimmerman case got me thinking about the defense of 'self defense'.

                                                              If I'm at the grocery store and some douchebag pushes me and cuts in front of me at the checkout, i'm pissed, he pays for his groceries and exits, 2 minutes later I exit the store and he's there and i say to him 'you're an asshole' and he replies 'fuck off crybaby' and i walk over and get in his face, one of us pushes the other and we start wrestling/punching, pretty much a mutual agreement to fight and as we're wrestling he gets the upper hand on me and has me on the ground and is punching my face, if I have a gun and can get to it I can shoot him? that's self defense?

                                                              that is insane if true - one person could think to himself as he's getting his face punched in 'this guy is stronger than me and he's going to keep punching my face in and hell he could cause my brain to hemmorhage, oh my god i'm gonna die' and another person, one who is tougher or stupider has probably been in fights before and all he's worried about is how bad his face is going to be messed up, it doesn't enter his mind that the beating he's taking could kill him.

                                                              how many physical altercations without weapons happen a year, probably tens of thousands, and how many deaths result from those type of altercations? probably a very small percentage.

                                                              Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon Martin saw his gun and was going for it - and why he grabbed it before Martin could get it and used it. I believe Zimmerman's story except that part, I think he was getting beaten in a fist fight with a teenager, possibly panicked and grabbed his gun and shot the kid. I don't believe it was self defense.
                                                              This is why the defense attorney's closing statement has asked the jury to be careful when using common sense in their decision. He literally said that.

                                                              What you just said is common sense. You shouldn't be able to shoot someone if you're losing a fistfight. ESPECIALLY if you're the one who seeked out the fight in the first place.

                                                              The decision to put Zimmerman in prison is common sense. But he'll walk because legally he should be able to squeak by...as long as the jurors don't apply common sense.

                                                              George Zimmerman is like a lot of people who carry guns. They're scared of what might happen out there in the big, scary world -- and deep down they're just itching for a chance to be a hero and shoot some bad guy.
                                                              Last edited by bronco67; 07-12-2013, 07:43 AM.

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