http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...-a-908963.html
Now ain't that a bitch... Getting really bad for Obama...
Now ain't that a bitch... Getting really bad for Obama...
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damn the germans are pissed off -
yea that's probably not going to happen, we can hope, so he can get extradited to the US
But.... I pulled out...Comment
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won't happenComment
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Only die hard American patriots have a problem with Snowden. The entire rest of the world thinks he did the right thing and should not be punished.Comment
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What I don't understand is this has been going on since 1940. All nations read and hack each other.
In Germany they call it "Bundesnachrichtendienst". Wikipedia says:
It depends heavily on wiretapping and electronic surveillance of international communications. It collects and evaluates information on a variety of areas such as international non-state terrorism, weapons of mass destruction proliferation and illegal transfer of technology, organized crime, weapons and drug trafficking, money laundering, illegal migration and information warfare. As Germany?s only overseas intelligence service, the BND gathers both military and civil intelligence.
So, it spies on other countries. Every country does this.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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snowden has nothing to fear by facing his accusers. he should have done his resarch on previous leakers, he would have found that they are not punished in any significant way.
america has shown its ability to differentiate these sorts of cases. it is snowden who is bullshittting the world.Comment
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C'mon man, such an oversimplification with no consideration of the known details.. There's a big difference between them having a team of people bugging a lamp or plant so they can hear a room... This is incredibly large scale.. The difference between killing a dictator with a sniper or nuking his whole city to kill him.
They always list the things we'd be happy with them dealing with (like the list you just said) and we should "just trust them" that they don't use any other capabilities they have that we as the public might find offensive. Don't worry, they have it all under control...
But the fact we needed Snowden at all to tell us just have far their overreach went shows us that they're obviously not trustworthy at all.
We know you and your family don't mind living in a glass bowl shitting in glass toilets for your overlords to inspect your level of wrongdoing. But is it okay if I don't want that for me and my family?Comment
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The law doesn't work based on right and wrong, it works based on applying the highly technical nature of the laws to situations. There are thousands of cases of injustice served.
For example. He used the word "PRISM" which was previously unknown. Now other countries can go through their own espionage logs and try to find people using that term, etc.
So for that reason alone he could spend the rest of his life in prison.
Whether he was right or wrong, he was "wrong" to say that word by law, and he will go to jail.Comment
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that's your opinion and is not based on facts of how leakers are viewed and handled in america.
nevertheless, this is your thread, your mind is made-up, americans are not capable of doing the right thing in this case and consequently injustice will prevail.
and you will certainly get many anti-american sympathizers agreeing with you and your thread.
but facts are facts, this is the 4th case of espionage in the usa and the 3 previous cases were handled with leniency, but nevermind that. this is gfy.Comment
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i also have to add, snowden lost any chance at having certain sympathy in the usa when he chose to take the top secret intel to non-usa aligned, authoritarian countries.
if he had stayed here and his actions belied his words, based on history, he would have not been significantly punished, he would be receiving awards and getting swamped in pussy.Comment
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It's amazing how his actions are considered illegal, when all he did was rat out the US government for doing something illegal.ICQ: 350-260-628Comment
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what's so funny? the facts?
Thomas Drake is one of four individuals in the history of the United States who has been charged specifically with “willful retention” of “national defense” information under 18 U.S.C. § 793(e).
This particular portion of the Espionage Act was created in 1950 during the Second Red Scare, as part of the McCarran Internal Security Act.[25]
Anthony Russo and Daniel Ellsberg were the first to be prosecuted for the “retention” of what came to be known as the Pentagon Papers which Ellsberg gave to The New York Times, eventually resulting in another landmark Espionage Act case in 1971, New York Times Co. v. United States. The prosecution of Russo and Ellsberg was dismissed in 1972 because of government misconduct.
The second prosecution was of Samuel Loring Morison in 1985, a Navy analyst who sold satellite photographs to Jane's Defense Weekly; he was later pardoned by President Bill Clinton.
The third was the American Israel Public Affairs Committee case in 2005 (United States v. Franklin, Rosen, and Weissman).[4]
On June 9, 2011, all 10 original charges against him were dropped. Drake rejected several deals because he refused to "plea bargain with the truth". He eventually pled to one misdemeanor count for exceeding authorized use of a computer;
He is the 2011 recipient of the Ridenhour Prize for Truth-Telling and co-recipient of the Sam Adams Associates for Integrity in Intelligence (SAAII) award.
again, america has a history of sorting these out. snowden chose to not handle it that way, he won't get the same treatment.
/Last edited by dyna mo; 07-02-2013, 09:55 AM.Comment
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I read through the whole snowden thing and listen to the news and such and its very difficult to know what to believe and what not to...but
The way I see it if you are so embarrassed when you get caught doing something that you shouldnt have been doing that you start resorting to smears and angry rhetoric then you probably aren't the good guys
How you interpret that is up to you but suffice it to say I don't see any cause to arrest Snowden for anything.Mike South
It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.Comment
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If you're a fucking terrorist.
But it is illegal to share and for the government to use your information and my information, without our knowledge.
You don't seem to understand what the issue here is and why Snowden did what he did.
It's not about protecting terrorists and catching them before they do something catastrophic.
It's about protecting society in general from the government potentially spying on EVERYONE.ICQ: 350-260-628Comment
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What the government is potentially doing, no one else can do unless they have a warrant.ICQ: 350-260-628Comment
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i don't seem to understand? pfft. i am simply telling you the facts. it seems you are the one refusing to understand.
did i say i support it?
fuck no.
i am telling you how it is, the secret fisa court determined it is not illegal, now go bury your head in sand or try and understand that for yourself.Comment
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http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...-a-909013.html
just because YOUR law might not have been broken, it doesn't mean OUR laws were not broken.
and even if some people might disagree but for us our laws mean something and are not inferior to your laws.Comment
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again, the fisa court decided otherwise.
as the article states, this is a precedent setting event. there are no international laws surrounding this. nevertheless, you have a german law there and i feel that your country should pursue that re: both usa and the uk on the data collecting. ftr, the data was collected and to be presented to the fisa court for a warrant to look at it.
manning's situation is entirely different and i explained that to you in another thread.
simply put, you fail at understanding the differenc between a military court and an active serviceman and a public court and a private contractor.
again, i am simply providing the historical facts, you can deny them all you want, i know you have an incessant need to hate america and anything that gets in the way of that is upsetting. nevertheless.Comment
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the other thing to consider is how obama is reacting/responding to the reveal. i am not posting this as a "if you do, we can too" example, i am posting it to suggest that it makes sense that germany is also snooping on usa and this entire thing can blow up into a big deal or more likely, all nations involved will decide it's better to drop it or the whole thing will turn into a massive shit storm for all nations involved.
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"The United States government will respond appropriately to the European Union through our diplomatic channels, and through the EU/U.S. experts' dialogue on intelligence that the U.S. proposed several weeks ago," the DNI office said in a statement. "We will also discuss these issues bilaterally with EU member states. While we are not going to comment publicly on specific alleged intelligence activities, as a matter of policy, we have made clear that the United States gathers foreign intelligence of the type gathered by all nations."Comment
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again, the historical facts provide you an answer, if you would just be open. i am providing that here for those who do choose to be open to it.
thomas andrews drake, the nsa leaker who did the exact same thing as snowden just a few years ago- giving top secret documents to a newspaper reporter, spent 0 days in prison.
none
zero
nada
zilchComment
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i think you had trouble reading what i wrote
to clarify:
1. I asked you if you knew what pretrial punishment was
2. I asked you to solely answer the question
I.. can't see where you answered the question.. i might be having a case of the tuesdays tho.. can you point out where you answered what i asked youComment
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QFT -
Most Americans are too anesthetized on McDonalds and pharma to care. Our gov usually claims no laws were broken cause they are the ones writing 1000 pages for a bill that no one reads. Our reps publicly admit they do not read them. Easy to slip "Merikans the mickey when no one is reading what they are signing/voting on.Comment
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QFT -
Most Americans are too anesthetized on McDonalds and pharma to care. Our gov usually claims no laws were broken cause they are the ones writing 1000 pages for a bill that no one reads. Our reps publicly admit they do not read them. Easy to slip "Merikans the mickey when no one is reading what they are signing/voting on.
there are petitions, new legislation, dialogue, etc surrounding this. a lot of people do care. i don't think it's accurate to wav off *most* americans with a casual comment like this, even the article in the post you are quoting goes on about how this is an unprecedented event.
not to mention i think it is more than fair to ASSume germany snoops on partners as well so they don't want to turn this into an international keystone cops.Comment
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