You are kidding, right? Joining the EU is a two-way street, funny how so many people here fail to see that; there are hundreds of German, French, Dutch etc. companies investing billions in the Eastern European countries; do you really think that they are not turning a profit? Every single country that has joined has way more to benefit than to lose.

The giant ponzi scheme we've witnessed through the property boom was EU wide. I started mentioning Ireland in more detail because I'm from the UK and have a bit more knowledge on that region is all.

My point is this fraud on a grand scale has been done in most EU countries through their banks, it's not important what bankers of what nationality committed this fraud (they all did!)

The important point is the EU politicians allowed it to happen, they are nothing more than schils to distract the voters while the con artists (bankers) steal from everyone.

The issue I have with the EU is the fact that we all know a small elite group of people in the banking sector have made a fortune from this fraud yet I'm not seeing...

1) 1000s of bankers in jail and brought to justice
2) SOCA and other EU crime agencies seizing the 100s of billions perhaps trillions of fraudulent money!

Instead what has happened, it's business as usual with the banks and their bonus culture.

We've had a whole load of scandals since the global credit crunch, LIBOR scandal etc and nothing has changed.

The people who have had to pay for this are the EU citizens, now that's just plain theft!

Privatise the profits and socialize the losses

Going forward we're going to get fucked harder and harder.

I feel sorry for countries joining the EU thinking they are going to get a better standard of living, they are not! They are signing up for debt slavery

And anyone thinking the poorer EU members being able to go to the richer EU countries to work to earn more money is a good thing, simply are not seeing the bigger picture. We're all on the hook for the bankers debt.

Short term countries will benefit - Poland is a great example of a country who has benefited greatly from the EU but long term we're all screwed as we're all slaves to the banking elite.

An EU superstate just makes it much more easier for the financial elite to fuck over everyone all in one go, so that's my issue with the whole thing.

Can't argue with the British obsession with property :) But lets be clear it was the effective disbandment of the FSA in the UK that opened the flood gates for handing out stupid loans to stupid people. The whole thing was fuelled by greed but the people taking out the loans where the marks who got screwed while the bankers made their profits from this ponzi scheme.

Governments are supposed to protect their people, not fuck them over repeatedly :2 cents:

My city here is full of greeks, italians, portugese etc. that work for companies like IBM, Red Hat, Infosys etc.

and without the EU, they couldn't simply go to CZ to work without any issues here

And most of them say that it's the fault of their own people back at home that are lazy and dont want to move to find work.

EU is going to Shit !it s happening very fast too!

thank you for your very elaborate, well put opinion

Yes they are. In your country but not in their own for some reason. Here we also have a lot of immigrant workers (Russia is the 2nd country by the amount of immigrants after the USA. E.g. the name of our condo cleaning woman is Victoria Morales). And yes, they work here just perfect. However the unemployment rate in their own countries is outstanding as well as the economics in general. Why?

Exactly...

P.S. 2MaDalton: When I said "to feed Greeks and others", I meant the countries but not the nationalities.

yep - and those countries now learn the hard way that the EU is not a donkey shitting gold without feeding him

and yeah - i dont have anything against the people either - most of my friends here are portugese

Well what's awesome is that we can now buy an apartment there, for the in-laws to live in. That'll get them out of the way haha :thumbsup

True. I was shocked seeing a EUR 3 000 000 park erected by EU in a 15k pops town of Rabka LOL

Thats a lot actually. EU citizens dont have to apply for work permit, can start businesses, work independently without forming LLC, use universal healthcare even....

You mean Moscow of course :)

The border-less area is cool. For traveling etc. As about "work independently" and "universal healthcare". I'm not sure it's good actually. Especially the 2nd one because, as I said already, some countries have to pay for others from their pocket.

No, I mean Russia. Most of immigrants are still living near the Eastern and Southern borders of the country. Course Moscow has a lot (but not most) of them however.

You pay tax here, you have your social number, you are eligible for free healthcare. Fact is though many doctors ran out to UK or Germany for better jobs, thats why in other countries you have to wait for the specialist doctor or pay to be seen faster.

What if I don't work anywhere and don't pay tax at all, but live for the allowance which is being paid from the German and French pockets? Can I still use the free EU healthcare? Do you think it's right? Personally I don't think so :2 cents:

there is no free healthcare anywhere in the EU as far as i know

but mandatory healthcare at varying costs

That sucks. Really. I thought the EU has it too.

Cant relate to Russia, but must say EU and Ukraine are VERY different if it comes to health care. And it's not always positive about EU. There are case you wish you'd see it Ukrainian way.

I was yesterday in the second largest city in Croatia, it was one hour past the midnight and almost no one on the main square (where the official celebration was). Happiest people were politicians, regular people don't really care.

Today I was watching main informative news from national TV and whole damn news were about joining EU, 30 minutes showing smiling politicians, it's like PyongyangTV.

One really good thing is this travelling option, so a lot of people can visit other countries without usual troubles. Also, importing used cars from Germany should be cheaper. :1orglaugh

Croatia has extremely retarded politicians who don't like open market and they put new regulations every day. Latest example:
They require merchants from fish markets to impose some fiscalisation so when the fisherman sells you some cheap fish (2 €/kg), it must go through the computer so the Sauron's eye can see it. Problems are:
-fiscalisation is expensive (buying the computer, teaching old people how to use them etc.)
- markets are really dynamic and messy (h ttp://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/01/78/40/52_big.jpg)
- price of fish is not the same in 8 am and 11 am - prices drop because sun and heat makes the fish less valuable and you can't make the change in computer.

So, now many people will loose jobs and go to the job bureau and end up needing some social help.

Whole EU is increasing regulations and creating incentives for people not to work and earn. EU will break apart, that's for sure.

Never been to the Ukraine but I know how it works here. Perhaps our free medicine is far not ideal, but it works. I mean you always get a proper treatment if you broke an arm/leg or anything else, have an appendicitis, need a heart bypass or want to cure a gumboil etc. You also don't have to pay for the ambulance. Course free medicine won't provide you a plastic boob surgery, fake lips or something like that. There are paid clinics that are specialized on that.

really? the UK benefits by the big companies actively recruiting from outside the UK? the biggest supermarket here deliberately recruits new staff from Poland rather than advertise locally as just one example - once they are here, they are then entitled to our free healthcare, benefits and go to the top of the housing list. if they go home then they can still claim British benefits. so thanks to the "great" system, we still have local people unemployed but the unemployment levels abroad have been cut AND we pay for them, how does this help us?

Well, obviously we have similar stuff... but, if there is an extra coin in your household, you'd use a private clinic no matter what. I think Moscow based private clinics could be even much more expensive then I pay in EU if there is no specialist doctor available at the moment.

Fucking i feel that! I can barely find a payable doctor i need to get my kid to visit! All teh docs are gone to work in the UK!

Have no idea. The last time I was in a paid Moscow clinic I wanted to remove 3 moles on my chest. I paid 2000 rubles (about $60) for everything (the reception and the surgery). I really have no idea how much this plastic surgery will cost me in the EU.

Did similar stuff in Kiev, similar price too.
Its easier to compare paying for a visit, say, to a specialist, like a surgeon or other, not a simple therapeut. In Kiev, Ukraine, in a good clinic you'd pay about $15-30 a visit, here it's $50-$70.
But, if you use a tax based therapeut you'd pay zero and get down to 70% discount for the meds. Fact is the doctors who do collaborative work with the government accepting your government insurance ( based on your tax pay ) are NOT always available when you need them, gotta wait or go see those where you pay per visit.

im sure the millions of mudslimes and africans dont bother you,its the polish blowing up buses and trains choping people up

I was talking about paid medicine. If I'd need to remove an appendix and get hospitalized by ambulance, I'd pay nothing. When my son was a kid, he was a regular client of trauma. He has broke bones, got hematomas etc because he was an extremely superactive boy. I don't know how much his treatment would cost us in the EU or the USA, but in Russia it cost us nothing. And I wouldn't complain to the medical service he has got here. Everything was a first class according to my humble opinion.

The BP station every few kms in every single EU country, where do you think their profits go? When was the last time you went to a big Eastern European city? All the small, locally owned mom and pops shops are long gone, replaced by massive chain stores, every single one of them owned by a Western European company, where do you think their profits go? And that's just what you see on the street, then you have power stations, factories, you name it, hundreds of them owned by many of the top WE companies, most of them re-exporting up to 90% of their profits. The EU is based on common interest, this isn't some group of countries that got together because they had nothing better to do; forming one massive, single market is the way forward.

As for people exploiting your system, you should have closed all the leaks and get rid of the leaches long time ago. Seriously, what the hell is your government waiting for? Let me guess, they would rather blame the Eastern Europeans for everything than actually do something that they should have done long time ago.

I said earlier on that the UK is swamped with immigration from many different countries that isn't needed here.

for there to be one massive single market then the wealth of each country has to be the same, this means that the poorer countries get richer by draining the money from the richer ones. Like I said, what benefit does the UK get from being in the EU?

It's not the government that's blaming anyone, its the population, they blame all immigration not just from within the EU and they know that the EU ONLY benefits big business - a referendum on leaving the EU is a huge, huge topic here.

You mean just like in the US, where the NY state generates 10 times more GDP than Arizona, that doesn't work for them at all .... no, wait, it does, they are the biggest economy in the World, aren't they? Following your logic, Northern Italy should split from Southern Italy, the richer Ruhr should definitely split away from the rest of Germany and so on....

Joining the EU means stiffer cometition on every level ... and Google just told me that "competition is the critical driver of performance and innovation. It benefits everyone by enabling us to choose from an array of excellent products at affordable prices. Competition also encourages the adoption of innovation as companies evolve and new ideas flourish in the marketplace." For once, I agree with Google.

what? you are not making any sense, your logic depends on each individual country to already be one superstate. a complete mishmash of cultures all poured into a single grey entity controlled by unelected leaders. If you take the UK to be NY in your example and say, Greece as Arizona then wouldn't NY want to walk away? What would the people of NY say if they found out that the taxes raised by the NY state for its schools, roads, lighting etc... were to be raised so they can also pay for Arizona's? But the British people (and the population of other richer member states) are expected to pay to prop up the weaker countries.
BTW, the shining example you hold up as a trophy has the biggest debt the world has ever seen. ($14.5 trillion dollars!)

Its not really nothing. $$ is taken off your tax / subsidized by Government too. Same as in the EU.

A lot of small business and small family owned companies went bankrupt because of the never ending regulations that keep on coming from the lazy EU servants passing stupid laws just to justify their immense wages.

As a non EU citizen living in the EU I must say they are fucking joking treating me like I'm Coca-Cola in terms of paying tax.

Yes of course, and I believe my 6% tax rate is worth it ;)

Which is exactly what the US is (was) too - Brits, Irish, Italians, Germans, blacks, hispanics, asian, all of htem mixed together and yet, they somehow managed to pull it off, go figure. Europe is probably 10 times more coherent than the US is (used to be). Debt or no debt, most likely 70% of all innovations in the past 20-30 years, innovations that have changed the World, came from the US. And you are completely missing my point - NY is generating massive revenue BECAUSE they can sell goods and services to all other states with minimal hassle, no import duties, no massive administrative bullcrap, no waiting on borders, and so on.

As for helping countries in trouble, then all other member states should pay, no two questions about that, I don't care how small their economy. The Eastern European countries joined the club and they have to pay their dues just like everybody else, I am not rooting for Charity Union, I am rooting for the European Union.

I personally think anything below 10% is fair.
I admit I pay much more in EU. But it's a choice.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/n...does-back.html

Lulz,but again nothing new.I would say something more,but as this thread is already becoming clusterfuck ,i dont want to make it even bigger clusterfuck :upsidedow