Cam turnovers - Market research

[KeY]

Hey guys, I am doing some market research for a live webcam business. Total webcam business turnover? 1-2 billions per year? Or may be less? Is it increasing or descreasing? How do you personally think LJ, MFC, Chaturbate, IMLive , how much is their turnover? Post your opinions, don't forget to add is it per month or per year.

[xNetworx]

Its a gazillion fufillion bazillion dollars per nanosecond

[KeY]

haha, very funny any serious opinions

[Fat Panda]

www.sexcamsy.com does about $5,900,000 annually.

[KeY]

these numbers are very good ! Maybe some webcam owners can also share their stats?

[xNetworx]

What do you do? care to share your stats? (I didn't think so)

Obviously people can only guess what the total spend on cams is but it was likely in the low billions last year

[KeY]

any more ideas? about overall turnover webcam business

[lagcam]

If you include in also the money and gifts sent direct to cam girls then it could easily be a trillion a year.

[TracyCam]

Good question.

[2013]

Originally Posted by KeY

any more ideas? about overall turnover webcam business

i like poo

[srockhard]

I can only estimate that streamate is raking over 1 billion per year on its own.

[duk75]

Originally Posted by SAC

www.sexcamsy.com does about $5,900,000 annually.

ANd you sell it for $5000?

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by SAC

www.sexcamsy.com does about $5,900,000 annually.

bit conservative on the BS eh?

[2intense]

Originally Posted by SAC

www.sexcamsy.com does about $5,900,000 annually.

[Brent 3dSexCash]

Originally Posted by srockhard

I can only estimate that streamate is raking over 1 billion per year on its own.

This is true

[adultmobile]

Originally Posted by KeY

these numbers are very good ! Maybe some webcam owners can also share their stats?

sex camsy is a vsmedia white label, the guy just sp4mmed it and thrown random number.
You are not going to get revenue posted in public forum by any camsite owner and even if some done it, you could not filter it out from mix troll random numbers surrounding real data, if any.
I run couple of small cam sites and I can tell no independent cam site can stay up unless doing a few million revenue a year (or thousand a day), just because costs and critical mass, scale economy. Cam sites are like banks, they must move lots of money to take a small % after costs and payouts, like 10-15%, so like if you have revenue of 100k you get 10k and if pay tax of it that's 5k only.
You may guess the big cam sites must do 100k more likely in a day if not in hours.
Very small cam sites are dead, and most cam domains are really whitelabels of the big cam sites.

[KeY]

Originally Posted by adultmobile

sex camsy is a vsmedia white label, the guy just sp4mmed You may guess the big cam sites must do 100k more likely in a day if not in hours.
Very small cam sites are dead, and most cam domains are really whitelabels of the big cam sites.

LJ, Streamate, MFC only 100k per day .... I don't believe in that. You know these are public companies, so they might be sharing their accounting info.. just my 2 cents

[lazycash]

Originally Posted by KeY

LJ, Streamate, MFC only 100k per day .... I don't believe in that. You know these are public companies, so they might be sharing their accounting info.. just my 2 cents

Since when are they public companies?

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by lazycash

Since when are they public companies?

LiveJasmin - I saw their parent company's website and if i recall correctly it was a public company and they do their best to hide their porn business.

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by KeY

LJ, Streamate, MFC only 100k per day .... I don't believe in that. You know these are public companies, so they might be sharing their accounting info.. just my 2 cents

There was an article on one of the porn news sites xbiz / fucked if I remember and it mentioned that a new cam site had paid $12 million to their performers in the 11/12 financial year (I think it was that year).

So if you go by 50% goes to model - 2 * $12 million = $24 million turn over for a *new* cam site - it has grown since so 100k looks very achievable for the likes of mfc and LJ - i'd say they are destroying the 100k daily.

[srockhard]

If you are talking about the big sites and their total rev before paying models & affiliates or any bills then you are under estimating by saying they make 100k per day.

[lazycash]

Originally Posted by Mutt

LiveJasmin - I saw their parent company's website and if i recall correctly it was a public company and they do their best to hide their porn business.

Ah yes, I do recall now something about them going public last year, was that on a US stock exchange or Euro?

[askjoe]

Originally Posted by KeY

LJ

20.000.000 per month (sales). chargebacks etc pp not included

[adultmobile]

Originally Posted by srockhard

If you are talking about the big sites and their total rev before paying models & affiliates or any bills then you are under estimating by saying they make 100k per day.

The $100k I wrote per day "or per few hours", depends by site we talk about.
A few million per year is moved by small sites (as mine), imagine the big ones.

Consider a small shop, like any bread or clothes shop, it must sell for a few million per year as minimum to barely stay up as a small family business. Cam sites it is exactly the same, this is not a big amount of money we talk about. Then, even a small supermarket sells for $100k+ a day, to just keep a few people hired and pay rent and merchandise, still owner is not a millionaire at all. People thinking in cam "I sell for $10k a month I made $5k income" are simply naive.

Further, all this relatively easy money from top 3-5 cam sites does are for them only, as an oligopoly based on years of recurring old members. It should be also made clear that except a same dozen of big + medium + small (but not so small) cam sites, who take 95% of all market, all others are doing sort of zero sales and in loss. Do a research and 98% of the new cam sites launched after 2009 it failed, despite some invested multiple $100k's for months before to give up. Non-failed new sites are just 2 or 3 in last 2-3 years, and none is "big". Note myfreecams is there from 2004, if someone wrongly thinks it is new.

[TracyCam]

I've often wondered how much myfreecams generates in a year.

[Gozarian]

Only 1 public company I know that owns a cam site, FFN. Do some homework http://quote.morningstar.com/stock-f...a69e78ae5e9d22
the cam numbers are there

[duk75]

Originally Posted by Gozarian

Only 1 public company I know that owns a cam site, FFN. Do some homework http://quote.morningstar.com/stock-f...a69e78ae5e9d22
the cam numbers are there

Holy GOd, 134 of accounting information... So boring and capitalist, I am feeling sick!

[adultmobile]

Originally Posted by Gozarian

Only 1 public company I know that owns a cam site, FFN. Do some homework http://quote.morningstar.com/stock-f...a69e78ae5e9d22
the cam numbers are there

Yes they file this since a few years, seen it before but I did not seen 2011 yet...
So a quick read:

http://globaldocuments.morningstar.c...10k-123111.htm

Webcams represent 25% of FFN revenue: $81 million in 2011 (6+ million a month, $220,000 a day), $76m 2010, $60m in 2009 (it grow 5-10 mil a year). Paid $25 million to models/studios in 2011 ($2 million a month, $62,000 a day). Paid affiliates $64 million in 2011 (47% of revenue contributed by affiliates, rest is own acquired sources?). It would be $8 million for cam affiliate only (25% of 47% of $64m, includes shaving?) then $25m + $8m = $33 million cost, so $81m - $33m = 48m income/profit, this is too much. Let's say 100% cam sales got affiliate to pay (worst case), it is 25% of $64m = $16m (1.3m a month, $43k a day), so cost 25+16=41m, income(profit) 81-41=$40 million.
So per day is $220k revenue(sales), costs(expense) is $62k paid to models (some 30%, it fits and confirms what they pay average), and $43k paid to affiliates, income(profit) it would be $100k+ a day, excludes hosting, management etc.
But they have other things so much in loss that it eats cam income and more: "for the years ended December 31, 2011, 2010 and 2009, we had net losses of $31.1 million, $43.2 million and $41.2 million, respectively.".

MFC, streamate etc. are cam-only, so no business branches in loss. Livejasmin really does a little of everything include real estate, it si a diversified thing just it started with cams and ended up as general enterpreneurs.

By the way there's an european public company with cams too: dreamnex SA (now Dnxcorp SA) it owns xcams.com:

https://europeanequities.nyx.com/en/...ny-information
http://markets.ft.com/research/Marke...ials?s=DNX:PAR

This is the 2012 report (in french...):
http://www.dnxcorp.com/uploads/Rappo...ier%202012.pdf

It is not as easy as FFN one because luxembourgh, malta and all the tricks to optimise european soviet taxes. Cams it should be besite it says profit 2.2 million eur from 15 million revenue, some 15% net profit (consider europe vat 20% is gone in tax, if 15% left of income it looks small to you) no details on payout for affiliate or models, would be sales 41k eur a day some $52k dollar a day.

Any other public companies with cams?

[Gozarian]

Thanks for the DNXCorp data - you are correct nowhere near as easy to decipher as FFN.

[kazbalah]

Damn why isnt my white label with 100 hits a day churning 100 million a year, i must be doing something wrong lol

[KeY]

Originally Posted by adultmobile

Further, all this relatively easy money from top 3-5 cam sites does are for them only, as an oligopoly based on years of recurring old members. It should be also made clear that except a same dozen of big + medium + small (but not so small) cam sites, who take 95% of all market, all others are doing sort of zero sales and in loss. Do a research and 98% of the new cam sites launched after 2009 it failed, despite some invested multiple $100k's for months before to give up. Non-failed new sites are just 2 or 3 in last 2-3 years, and none is "big". Note myfreecams is there from 2004, if someone wrongly thinks it is new.

I guess chaturbate was launched not a long ago, and they have really good results.
So according to the posts, the biggest webcam site is Streamate with 1billion turnover.

Other big sites(except LJ) are about 5-7M per month turnover.