Looks like we have a trial date for FSC's 2257 challenge.

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  • Redrob
    Confirmed User
    • Oct 2004
    • 4791

    #1

    Looks like we have a trial date for FSC's 2257 challenge.

    Looks like we will have our day in court.

    If you are an American webmaster, content producer or studio head, you've got skin in this game. Now is the time to step up and help us fund our effort to end 2257.

    According to Mark Kernes at today's AVN:

    "PHILADELPHIA, PA?In a move that reportedly came as a complete surprise to attorneys for the Free Speech Coalition and other plaintiffs in the lawsuit against the federal recordkeeping and labeling law, 18 U.S.C. ยง2257, as well as those for the defendant, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, Judge Michael Baylson today sent a letter to counsel stating that he would deny the Motions for Summary Judgment that each side had filed in the case last Friday.

    "The judge said that he would deny the Motions and would send the case to trial on the merits," said J. Michael Murray, the lead attorney for the Plaintiffs, "and he indicated that he will issue a Memorandum early next week explaining his reasoning. But we're very excited about the fact that we are definitely going to trial, and the government will not be given summary judgment in this case, and so we're excited about presenting all of our evidence on both our First and Fourth Amendment claims, beginning on June the 3rd.""

    I know the FSC has some detractors here on GFY; but, yet here we are about to begin one of the most important trials that affect our day-to-day operations and potential criminal liability for failure to maintain perfect records. The detractors will say "BS", the FSC waste money, the FSC Board is all incompetent, the FSC is controlled by Manwin....etc., etc., etc. I've heard it all; but, yet, here we are going to trial to end 2257 and we need your help.

    Mark goes on to observe that since the costs of freeing the adult industry from the expensive and time-consuming burdens of 2257/2257A are already in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, Free Speech Coalition has asked that all personnel in, and fans of, the adult industry donate however much they can to offset these expenses. Donations can be made by a check or money order that can be mailed to Free Speech Coalition, P.O. Box 10480, Canoga Park, CA 91309.

    Here is a link to the entire article: Judge Denies Motions for Summary Judgment.

    Check it out.
    Last edited by Redrob; 05-17-2013, 12:15 AM.
  • pr0phet
    Confirmed User
    • Jan 2005
    • 1041

    #2
    How many 2257 convictions has there been?
    Pr0phet

    Comment

    • tonyparra
      Confirmed User
      • Jul 2008
      • 4568

      #3
      you should have mention bitcoins, added some tits, or sprinkled in the words free/#1! in order to get responses here.

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      Comment

      • Redrob
        Confirmed User
        • Oct 2004
        • 4791

        #4
        The FSC's constitutional challenges have been the main reason there have been no convictions.

        Mark's article stated, "Also dealt with at the trial will be the Fourth Amendment violations committed by those charged with inspecting adult companies' records—at last count, 29 companies, all in 2006, none of which reportedly passed such inspection on the first try. (Some of the "violations" included such minutae as failure to keep the records in alphabetical order.)"

        All inspections have failed. As I understand it and I stand to be corrected, there is no trial with a finding of guilt like a criminal trial; your guilt is self-evident in the failure to properly maintain the files. There is just some kind of administrative hearing with a finding of failure to maintain records to kick in the penalties. Worse case scenario, 2257 violations are heaped on other charges to get a confession of guilt.
        Last edited by Redrob; 05-17-2013, 01:03 AM.

        Comment

        • Redrob
          Confirmed User
          • Oct 2004
          • 4791

          #5
          Violators of 2257 are looking at up to five years for a first offense and 10 years for subsequent offenses.

          Multiple offenses can be the result of a single inspection if more than one error is discovered in the company's 2257 records.

          For a good review of the 2257/2257a statutes, visit Greg Piccionelli's website.

          Comment

          • tony286
            lurker
            • Aug 2002
            • 57021

            #6
            Imagine if the FSC just saved a big war chest instead of wasting money on all the other misc bullshit. They would have big dollars to fight this.

            Comment

            • pornguy
              Too lazy to set a custom title
              • Mar 2003
              • 62912

              #7
              I would rather pay to the attorneys direct than the FSC.
              PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic

              AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online!
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              Comment

              • Redrob
                Confirmed User
                • Oct 2004
                • 4791

                #8
                If you wish to donate directly to the attorney, please send your donation to:

                Attorney J. Michael Murray
                Berkman, Gordon, Murray and DeVan
                55 Public Square, Suite 2200
                Cleveland, Ohio 44113

                Please ask that the funds be applied to the litigation challenging 18 U.S.C. 2257 and notify Joanne Cachapero of your donation at the FSC: [email protected].

                Any help is deeply appreciated.

                Comment

                • Redrob
                  Confirmed User
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 4791

                  #9
                  If you wish to donate online , here is the link:

                  http://2257donate.com/

                  June 3rd is the trial date and the expenses are huge as we must pay for our witnesses' travel expenses to, during and returning from their testimony.

                  Any amount is deeply appreciated.

                  Comment

                  • Markul
                    Likes Pie
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 12403

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Redrob
                    Violators of 2257 are looking at up to five years for a first offense and 10 years for subsequent offenses.

                    Multiple offenses can be the result of a single inspection if more than one error is discovered in the company's 2257 records.

                    For a good review of the 2257/2257a statutes, visit Greg Piccionelli's website.
                    That's fucking crazy!!! I am glad I moved my servers out of the US.
                    But.... I pulled out...

                    Comment

                    • Grapesoda
                      So Fucking Banned
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 46238

                      #11
                      Originally posted by tony286
                      Imagine if the FSC just saved a big war chest instead of wasting money on all the other misc bullshit. They would have big dollars to fight this.
                      Tony other than Obama being president what does make you happy?

                      Comment

                      • KillerK
                        Confirmed User
                        • May 2008
                        • 3406

                        #12
                        I wonder if FSC didn't do what they claim is a good thing, if the adult landscape would still be the same it is now.

                        Comment

                        • Redrob
                          Confirmed User
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 4791

                          #13
                          Personally, I think the two biggest recent game changers for the adult industry have been the rise of online piracy of content and the 9/11 disaster which derailed the Bush/Ashcroft effort to prosecute adult content creators and providers through obscenity prosecutions.

                          Also, in my opinion, the resulting "War on Terror" has made the DOJ's 2257 inspections a less than glamours task for assigned agents.

                          Ashcroft covered the partially nude statue of Lady Justice at the DOJ
                          Last edited by Redrob; 05-17-2013, 12:25 PM.

                          Comment

                          • tony286
                            lurker
                            • Aug 2002
                            • 57021

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Grapesoda
                            Tony other than Obama being president what does make you happy?
                            Youre mistaken. I think he is awful with no backbone. But you want to criticize him use facts not made up right wing bullshit. Thats what makes me fucking crazy.

                            Comment

                            • Joe Obenberger
                              Confirmed User
                              • May 2003
                              • 466

                              #15
                              http://www.xxxlaw.com/section-2257/index.html

                              http://www.xxxlaw.com/articles/primer5.html


                              Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice. . . Restraint in the pursuit of Justice is no virtue.
                              Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964

                              Comment

                              • Redrob
                                Confirmed User
                                • Oct 2004
                                • 4791

                                #16
                                Thank you, Joe.

                                If you have any doubts about the importance of repealing 2257, take a few minutes to read some of Joe's webpages.

                                Good information.

                                Comment

                                • Webmaster Advertising
                                  So Fucking Banned
                                  • Sep 2003
                                  • 1360

                                  #17
                                  Nobody is doubting that 2257 needs to be repealed, what they are saying is that the FSC are a bunch of money wasting scumbags who are just out to line their own pockets at the expense of the very same industry they are claiming to want to help protect.

                                  Wy are there no publicly available audited records for where the FSC spend the donations, how much of every dollar donated goes towards 'actual' legal expenses vs. nights in fancy hotels, champagne receptions with lobster and caviar dinners using private jets and limo services?

                                  Comment

                                  • 2013
                                    So Fucking Banned
                                    • Dec 2012
                                    • 4390

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Redrob
                                    If you wish to donate directly to the attorney, please send your donation to:

                                    Attorney J. Michael Murray
                                    Berkman, Gordon, Murray and DeVan
                                    55 Public Square, Suite 2200
                                    Cleveland, Ohio 44113

                                    Please ask that the funds be applied to the litigation challenging 18 U.S.C. 2257 and notify Joanne Cachapero of your donation at the FSC: [email protected].

                                    Any help is deeply appreciated.
                                    i heard that''s the worst attorney in cleveland

                                    Comment

                                    • Redrob
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Oct 2004
                                      • 4791

                                      #19
                                      I believe the FSC's financials are available for inspection during normal business hours by any current member at the Chatsworth office. I do know that the board members pay their own travel expenses to commute across the country for Board meetings without reimbursement.

                                      If you really want to know what a bunch of scumbags comprise the Board, I'd suggest you run for the Board, get elected and find out for yourself.
                                      Last edited by Redrob; 05-18-2013, 12:10 AM.

                                      Comment

                                      • pr0phet
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Jan 2005
                                        • 1041

                                        #20
                                        Seems odd to fight something that was enacted over 10 years ago but never really enforced.

                                        But if people have money burning a hole in their pocket send it over to fight the boogeyman.
                                        Pr0phet

                                        Comment

                                        • Klen
                                          • Aug 2006
                                          • 32235

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by pr0phet
                                          Seems odd to fight something that was enacted over 10 years ago but never really enforced.

                                          But if people have money burning a hole in their pocket send it over to fight the boogeyman.
                                          Better safe then sorry.

                                          Comment

                                          • Redrob
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Oct 2004
                                            • 4791

                                            #22
                                            Bump for the Saturday night crowd.....

                                            Comment

                                            • GonZo
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Jul 2002
                                              • 3180

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                              Tony other than Obama being president what does make you happy?
                                              He loves Evil Coffees
                                              Assclown Bob Rice wants to BANG your credit card!
                                              "I am putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
                                              All the information above is my personal opinion.

                                              Comment

                                              • Markul
                                                Likes Pie
                                                • Dec 2007
                                                • 12403

                                                #24
                                                This should be pinned to the top until June 3rd ..
                                                But.... I pulled out...

                                                Comment

                                                • myjah
                                                  Back in the harbor
                                                  • Sep 2003
                                                  • 11482

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Markul
                                                  This should be pinned to the top until June 3rd ..
                                                  Agreed...
                                                  VP of Marketing
                                                  AVN Media Network
                                                  Skype: AVNJill
                                                  [email protected]

                                                  Comment

                                                  • adendreams
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Jul 2009
                                                    • 1887

                                                    #26
                                                    Redrob seems to have laid waste to the critics in this thread, I admit I'm not familiar with past FSC drama but what are the accusations of wasted funds by the FSC?
                                                    Last edited by adendreams; 05-19-2013, 06:01 AM.
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                                                    • davecummings
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • Oct 2003
                                                      • 2922

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Redrob
                                                      Thank you, Joe.

                                                      If you have any doubts about the importance of repealing 2257, take a few minutes to read some of Joe's webpages.

                                                      Good information.
                                                      I agree, and have high regard for Joe's legal expertise!
                                                      Dave Cummings
                                                      www.davecummings.com
                                                      www.davecummings.tv
                                                      San Diego

                                                      Email--- [email protected]

                                                      Comment

                                                      • NemesisEnforcer
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                        • 2122

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Redrob
                                                        Personally, I think the two biggest recent game changers for the adult industry have been the rise of online piracy of content and the 9/11 disaster which derailed the Bush/Ashcroft effort to prosecute adult content creators and providers through obscenity prosecutions.

                                                        Also, in my opinion, the resulting "War on Terror" has made the DOJ's 2257 inspections a less than glamours task for assigned agents.

                                                        Ashcroft covered the partially nude statue of Lady Justice at the DOJ
                                                        So true, given the choice, the silver lining from 9/11 was one that no one wanted. On the other hand, at that time, the 2257 battle was a blessing in disguise. It caused the DVD companies to start sending out paper work to businesses that they provided product to. Going through the paper work I found out that the model I paid $1000 to was getting $500 from other companies for doing the same work. Guys that I was paying $500 to was getting $200. I now had enough information to lower my talent cost.
                                                        The Only Time When Success Comes Before Work Is In A Dictionary.

                                                        Did you ever notice: When you put the 2 words 'The' and 'IRS' together it spells 'Theirs.'

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Joe Obenberger
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • May 2003
                                                          • 466

                                                          #29
                                                          Somebody casually slandered Mike Murray in a post above. When I read it a few days ago, I rolled my eyes and moved on. But the sheer nastiness, ugliness, and stupidity of that post has kept coming back to me over the weekend and I have to reply.

                                                          I know Mike Murray through a group that we both both belong to and I've followed his nonstop crusade against Section 2257 that started in the Connections case, I think about fifteen years ago. He's been up and down between the trial court and the Sixth Circuit several times fighting the good fight, honing and refining his arguments, and now he continues that battle in the Third Circuit. It's a personal life-mission for Mike. No one in the world has more thanklessly fought against this horrible law. He's fought it without much of an incentive to make money. I know for a fact that he was paid pennies on the dollar in Connections and he's owed money in six figures in the present case. It's all been work of the highest quality - and it's all been done with the kind of zeal that should be an inspiration to every lawyer. He continues the aggressive fight whether he's paid or not.

                                                          I am not close to Mike, we are not close personal friends, we just see each other at meetings. But I know him to be a heroic figure whose life work stands a good chance of protecting the rights of everyone, not just people in this industry. Lawyers disagree about legal arguments and theories and that's a natural thing, but despite any of that, no one can take away from Mike that his work is simply excellent by every objective standard. His latest motion for summary judgment - which the judge will not grant because this judge is tired of motions and will press the case to trial so that it does not drag on further - shows that Mike is now in sych with the Third Circuit. The Third Circuit sees this case as one that goes to the core issues of the personal privacy rights of all Americans. If you read Mike's motion, he capably proves that Americans in numbers impossible to count with precision, but surely in the tens of millions, perhaps nearly half of the population, are using digital technology to take pictures and videos of highly personal intimate acts of affection. This is a very hard thing to prove, but I think he's done it. And because 2257 indiscriminately covers noncommercial depictions of actual explicit sex - it has to do that because almost all child pornography is made for noncommercial purposes - it improperly invades the bedrooms of all Americans. http://www.xxxlaw.com/news/Materials...L%20RESIZE.jpg I think that's the issue that this case will turn on at trial and in the inevitable appeal to the Third Circuit - and the Third Circuit has amply telegraphed how important this issue is to it. Listen to the oral argument last year. http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/oralargu...AttyGenUSA.wma and read the Third Circuit's opinion. http://www.xxxlaw.com/section-2257/4....3rd%20Cir.pdf

                                                          I think the odds are good that Mike will win in the district court at trial and that his victory will be upheld in the Third Circuit. He's got his ducks lined up on the issue that counts, the issue that has far-reaching privacy implications for everybody. The government just went too far in this law and Mike is ready to ram that home. What the US Supreme Court does later, if it takes this case at all, is anyone's guess, but Mike's on the right path here and now.

                                                          To defame this smart, hard-working lawyer on these pages is, to me, sad beyond comprehension and completely uncalled for. Shame on you.
                                                          Last edited by Joe Obenberger; 05-19-2013, 10:59 AM.


                                                          Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice. . . Restraint in the pursuit of Justice is no virtue.
                                                          Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Redrob
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Oct 2004
                                                            • 4791

                                                            #30
                                                            Joe, I was thinking the same thing last night. Excellent response.

                                                            Some people on here will slam anyone or anything associated with the FSC without knowledge of the facts.
                                                            Last edited by Redrob; 05-19-2013, 11:04 AM.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • mikesouth
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Jun 2003
                                                              • 6334

                                                              #31
                                                              Interesting to see the FSC taking credit for essentially Rondee Kamins work, where were they when SHE was fighting this originally?

                                                              and for the record the FSC always SAYS their books are open to members but I defy you to try to see them....

                                                              they do have to file things though and those filings are online...I forget the site something like nonprofitwatch or something I can find it if anyone wants....
                                                              Mike South

                                                              It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Profits of Doom
                                                                Monster Rain
                                                                • Feb 2004
                                                                • 4978

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by Joe Obenberger
                                                                Somebody casually slandered Mike Murray in a post above. When I read it a few days ago, I rolled my eyes and moved on. But the sheer nastiness, ugliness, and stupidity of that post has kept coming back to me over the weekend and I have to reply.

                                                                I know Mike Murray through a group that we both both belong to and I've followed his nonstop crusade against Section 2257 that started in the Connections case, I think about fifteen years ago. He's been up and down between the trial court and the Sixth Circuit several times fighting the good fight, honing and refining his arguments, and now he continues that battle in the Third Circuit. It's a personal life-mission for Mike. No one in the world has more thanklessly fought against this horrible law. He's fought it without much of an incentive to make money. I know for a fact that he was paid pennies on the dollar in Connections and he's owed money in six figures in the present case. It's all been work of the highest quality - and it's all been done with the kind of zeal that should be an inspiration to every lawyer. He continues the aggressive fight whether he's paid or not.

                                                                I am not close to Mike, we are not close personal friends, we just see each other at meetings. But I know him to be a heroic figure whose life work stands a good chance of protecting the rights of everyone, not just people in this industry. Lawyers disagree about legal arguments and theories and that's a natural thing, but despite any of that, no one can take away from Mike that his work is simply excellent by every objective standard. His latest motion for summary judgment - which the judge will not grant because this judge is tired of motions and will press the case to trial so that it does not drag on further - shows that Mike is now in sych with the Third Circuit. The Third Circuit sees this case as one that goes to the core issues of the personal privacy rights of all Americans. If you read Mike's motion, he capably proves that Americans in numbers impossible to count with precision, but surely in the tens of millions, perhaps nearly half of the population, are using digital technology to take pictures and videos of highly personal intimate acts of affection. This is a very hard thing to prove, but I think he's done it. And because 2257 indiscriminately covers noncommercial depictions of actual explicit sex - it has to do that because almost all child pornography is made for noncommercial purposes - it improperly invades the bedrooms of all Americans. http://www.xxxlaw.com/news/Materials...L%20RESIZE.jpg I think that's the issue that this case will turn on at trial and in the inevitable appeal to the Third Circuit - and the Third Circuit has amply telegraphed how important this issue is to it. Listen to the oral argument last year. http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/oralargu...AttyGenUSA.wma and read the Third Circuit's opinion. http://www.xxxlaw.com/section-2257/4....3rd%20Cir.pdf

                                                                I think the odds are good that Mike will win in the district court at trial and that his victory will be upheld in the Third Circuit. He's got his ducks lined up on the issue that counts, the issue that has far-reaching privacy implications for everybody. The government just went too far in this law and Mike is ready to ram that home. What the US Supreme Court does later, if it takes this case at all, is anyone's guess, but Mike's on the right path here and now.

                                                                To defame this smart, hard-working lawyer on these pages is, to me, sad beyond comprehension and completely uncalled for. Shame on you.
                                                                I'm no fan of the FSC from my own real personal experiences with them, but I do know of Mike Murray from my years running adult bookstores in Ohio and working with Connection Distributing, and only an idiot would question his expertise and skill.

                                                                Keep in mind the user that posted the line that irked you, 2013, is a pretty well known junkie and internet scammer from Van Wet, Ohio by the name of Chris Butler http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1102945 I wouldn't take anything that junkie and thief has to say to heart...
                                                                โ€œMy Free Cams Affiliate Program by CrakRevenueโ€

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Redrob
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Oct 2004
                                                                  • 4791

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Bump for the Monday "I'm back to work" crowd.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • PornoMonster
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Mar 2003
                                                                    • 2257

                                                                    #34
                                                                    So what is the FSC fighting for? To get rid of it? Or things like secondary producers?

                                                                    Can I just get the bullets of the main things they are fighting for?
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                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Redrob
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • Oct 2004
                                                                      • 4791

                                                                      #35
                                                                      FSC is fighting to have the regulations declared unconstitutional.

                                                                      Visit http://2257donate.com/ for more information.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Gozarian
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Jun 2012
                                                                        • 558

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Thanks JD for the orals link I had been searching for that

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Redrob
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Oct 2004
                                                                          • 4791

                                                                          #37
                                                                          I got the OK from Peter Acworth, CEO at Kink.com to post a thread with a letter he has sent out to industry leaders today.

                                                                          Content producers and webmasters who didn't receive a copy directly from Peter would do well to read the letter.

                                                                          Link to GFY thread with Peter's letter to Industry Leaders

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Redrob
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Oct 2004
                                                                            • 4791

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Morning bump.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Redrob
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Oct 2004
                                                                              • 4791

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Keeping the story in the news for your consideration.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • davecummings
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Oct 2003
                                                                                • 2922

                                                                                #40
                                                                                This is an evening bump.
                                                                                Dave Cummings
                                                                                www.davecummings.com
                                                                                www.davecummings.tv
                                                                                San Diego

                                                                                Email--- [email protected]

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Redrob
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Oct 2004
                                                                                  • 4791

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Hump day bump.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Redrob
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Oct 2004
                                                                                    • 4791

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Have you donated yet?

                                                                                    It is a long way from LA to Philadelphia and the trial is expected to last at least two weeks incurring some serious expenses.

                                                                                    Help if you can.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Redrob
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Oct 2004
                                                                                      • 4791

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      I am so ready for the long weekend. Have a safe and happy weekend.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Redrob
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Oct 2004
                                                                                        • 4791

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Help us invalidate 2257. We have a shot at the prize and need your help.

                                                                                        Comment

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