cold war ended in 1991, way after berlin wall fell.

My research? You seem to be confused, dyna mo. You're the one making the claim, not me. Remember?

I'm starting to think that the sad truth is you have no idea what you are talking about. :(

Well, by those standards the United States wasn't defeated in Vietnam.

The United States was not physically forced to leave Vietnam and could have held out indefinitely if it choose to so. I believe it was very similar for the Soviets in Afghanistan - they could have stayed, but at what cost? And what would have been gained?

Nobody ever wins in Afghanistan. A lesson nobody ever learns.

he's not going to see that the russians lost in afghanistan either Rochard, he's russian, they haven't lost anything.

That's because I saw the fall of the USSR with my own eyes. Everybody here knew it was cumming since 1980. In 1986 it was absolutely inevitably, and not because of Cold War - believe me.

Here is quote for you which sums it up: Lower classes" do not want to live in the old way - guess what does it mean and who is the author?

P.S. Fox and CNN propaganda may look almost like a truth but it's still just a propaganda *my two cents*

Perhaps. You must know it better. I wasn't even born when Vietnam was has ended. Furthermore, I haven't live in Vietnam or even in the USA during that times :2 cents:

yes, i am recalling cnn and fox news reports from 20+ years ago to report to you that you lost the cold war.

that makes sense.

where were the rest of us? not born yet? you were what 12? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Somewhat like you refusing to admit we won nothing after the cold war ended.

Definitely not in the USSR :2 cents:

Warfare has changed over the past twenty years. War used to be carpet bombing and lots of destruction, huge armies facing off against each other. Now it's all about small missile strikes that neatly destroy government and military operations. The second war with Iraq was over the moment it started when the first missile strike completely destroyed Iraq's entire command and control - and they never saw it coming.

No one noticed, but the entire nature of war itself just changed over night over the past few days... The US launched an unmanned jet off of an aircraft carrier, the USS George Bush. Doesn't sound too impressive until you stop and think about it: In the next decade, the United States will be deploying jets with no pilots and then ships with no crew. While we will always need boots on the ground, just imagine a war where one country can launch thousands of planes without fear of loosing a single pilot.

http://gdb.voanews.com/A6F01B9D-ACD5..._w640_r1_s.jpg

Sort of makes that submarine the Russians spent seventeen years building look kind of silly doesn't it?

if that how you need to look at it, sure, go for it.

You're welcome to try and convince me that some dude on a Pentagon Xbox can fly a plane better than an actual pilot. Won't lose a single pilot? No, we'll just lose a shitload more multi-million tax-dollar aircraft.

Thanks for your permission.

i need to get over there though, i've been wanting to shoot some of the girls there for my site.

you are welcome.

an extra 25 posts in this thread because i had made the comment we won the cold war with the ohio class sub, fucking around with richard's anti-american fucking around lolz.

If you like to do it your way of the way of Rochard, sure, do it. I.e.:

1) We won WWII! (ok, how many German tank divisions were destroyed by the USA? how many German soldiers were killed by the USA? who and when hoisted the US flag on the Reichstag)?

2) We won the space race! (c) Rochard (ok, has the USA launched the first satellite or the first mad into the space?)

3) We won Cold War! (c) you. (ok, do you really believe that that USSR has collapsed because of the military overspending?)

My father died in Vietnam when I was nine months old.

What happened to the United States in Vietnam and the Soviets in Afghanistan is very similar. A huge and powerful country invaded a smaller and weaker country, and was surprised when the smaller country fought back. The large country was firmly entrenched and could have stayed for as long as it wanted so long as it was willing to invest the money and manpower.

The United States could have stayed in Vietnam, but why? The political fall out was huge, there was no public support, and the US was spending lots of money and loosing American lives for what - To fight communism? Best case scenario for the US in Vietnam was to install an anti communist government there that was friendly to the US - Hardly worth what we paid.

Likewise, the Soviets could have stayed in Afghanistan, but why and at what cost?

It takes a lot more than having a large and powerful military to win a war...

Only in case if you invent a time machine :2 cents:

english please.

Absolutely similar to that the USA have now in Iraq and Afghanistan :2 cents:

Специально для тебя. Ты попадешь в СССР только тогда, когда ты изобретешь машину времени. Объяснить почему или ты сам догадаешься? :pimp

this thread is hilarious! I mean really.

so i'll answer helterdude now that he's not on my cock.

we won a stockpile of arms (that's weapons to you, helter), we spent ourselves into oblivion and created a shit ton of new enemies, etc.

if i knew more about it i could go on but that's my opinion.

it's important because a-bomb haven't been used for a while while conventional weapons have.

The Russians never lost the war in Afghanistan, they went there, they stayed, they withdrew, just like the US did (will do?) in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Not saying that watching Tom Hanks playing a drunken senator wasn't fun though.

the us will finish up pulling troops out of afghanistan in 2014.

I'm not sure who you mean when you say "We won WWII".

There is no doubt in my mind that the Russians would have owned Nazi Germany if given enough time. No one suffered more then the Russians, and no one lost and then gained more ground than the Russians. The Russians, more or less, defeated Nazi Germany on it's own.

However, WWII was not fought in Europe alone. While Russia was playing footies with the Nazis while getting help from the US and the rest of the allies, the US was fighting a completely different war on it's own against Japan. I am not sure what you know about your military history, but Japan and Russia was going at it before Japan attacked the US. What do you think would have happened if Russia was forced to fight a war on two fronts - one against Nazi Germany, and the other against Japan?

Did Russia put a man on the moon?

No wait, better yet, check out the Soviet Space Shuttle...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Buran.jpg

Do I really believe that the USSR collapsed because of military over spending? I have no clue.

But it seems to me the United States did not collapse, nor did NATO (which still exists), while the USSR seems to have dissolved and the Eastern Bloc is.... No more. Come to think of it, a lot of countries in the former Eastern Bloc is now in NATO - Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Albania... Hell, even the GDR (East Germany) is now part of NATO.

So and how it will be different to that the USSR did in 1989? :winkwink:

there's never been any question in my mind the russsians won the war in europe, we supplied a shit ton of stuffs and some good solid hands on but those russians fought it up, had a massive foot army and took tons of casualties.


if it were all still ussr, i would not want to wage combat with that foot army.

Moon??? We are talking about the space race, not the Moon, Mars, Venus or Jupiter one. The USSR did the first successful Moon landing. The USA have sent a first man to the Moon. The USSR was successful with Venus landings while the USA were much more lucky with Mars... but wait! How does it relate to your statement that the USA won the SPACE RACE?

Space, you know. The cosmos outside the Earth atmosphere. That's not Moon, Mars or Alpha Centaur. Still didn't get it? Ok, Wikipedia will help you on that.

it's no different at all, afghansitan is a shithole cesspool that we fell into, just like y'all did and many others before that.

we too lost in afghanistan.

again, i've said it before here, i'm very anti-war. i happen to know a bit of history of it and also like history so i share that but i do not advocate war at all.

Depends on your point of view.

With Iraq, our intentions were to remove Saddam and his government from power. This happened very quickly. A new government is in place, and they are no longer a threat to anyone. Mission accomplished.

In Afghanistan our goal was to remove the Taliban from power, and hunt down Al Qaeda. The Taliban is no longer in power, Osama is dead, and Al Qaeda has lost it's "base". A new government is in place and that's that - Time to leave.

Funny how you point to a link on Wikipedia about "outer space" and not the "space race" itself. Here, let me help you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Race

The Space Race wasn't a race to space, it was a race for space exploration. You seem to like Wikipedia, so here is how Wikipedia defines the space race:

Again, how many people did the Soviets put on the moon?

The pilot means very little in his combat skills when the missile that shoots down his plane, was launched 20 to 50 miles away by an aircraft he will likely never see.

The Korean war was really the last time air to air combat was close range. Modern air war takes place at ranges the pilots will never see each other. Meaning a drone has significant advantage over a human because the drone can stay in the air much longer and the loss of it doesn't result in the loss of years and millions spent on flight training.

You shoot down a drone and the pilot can fly again the same day.. Hell that pilot can control more than one at a time.

I was always a big fan of ww2 and even Korean war dog fighting. It was man & machine vs man and machine and remarkable most of the planes were fairly closely matched or developed tactics to fight each other, which is amazing in it's self. However those glory days of the pilot really mattering are almost long, long gone.

OK,

1st satelite - USSR
1st man in space - USSR
1st man on the moon - USA

What am I missing here?

Replace Saddam with Hafizullah Amin. Still somehow different? :winkwink:

Wrong attempt. The article was written by the same US "patriot" like you. It definitely doesn't matter what is written there because we have facts: first satellite and human in the SPACE are Soviet. Period.

Again we are not talking about Moon race.

You missed first successful Moon landing :) LUNA 2 - USSR :)

So 4:1 for the USSR so far :pimp

my penis is bigger than your penis....





btw - fun fact - Russia still owes the US a couple of billion USD for tanks, guns etc. that the US sent them in support of the war against Hitler. After the war the whole equipment was destroyed and Stalin forbid to ever speak about it again.

OI!!!
I think you'll find that a small island fighting on the western front on its own while the US deliberated on how to make money from the war before entering had something to do with it!
If Germany had just the one front to worry about don't you think they would have made it to the Russian oilfields before they were stopped by the Russian weather?

Nukes is what counts on end

I am not a "US Patriot". I am more like a history buff, and surely a World War II history buff.

You give me a link to Wikipedia about "outer space" and yet when I give you a link to Wikipedia about the Space Race, you claim it was written by a "US Patriot". The Soviet Union led the way into space with the first satellite into space and the first man into outer space. In fact, the Soviet Union had a lot more firsts in outer space which you fail to mention. But after it's original successes, the Soviet Union floundered. No matter how much the Soviet Union tried it could not put a man on the moon. The Soviets gave up in 1970 after the Americans put men on the moon twice.

But the space race didn't end there - The US continued to put men on the moon, and then continued going into outer space with the Space Shuttle. The Soviets tried to copy that, but that didn't work out too well either.

While you and I bicker like school children about this, the truth is the majority of our rocket technologies for both the US and the Soviets truthfully came from Nazi Germany.

Why stop there... Mother Russia and Japan are still at war.

Shortly before Japan surrendered, Russia declared war on Japan. They never did sign a peace treaty, and to this very day still fight over a chain of islands they both claim as theirs.

Also, I just learned the other day... The island of Saipan... Which was the sight of a brutal battle.... Is now in the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands... Which is a Commonwealth of the United States (similar to Puerto Rico....).

You missed one. First living creature in space. Too bad she died with your little experiment. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2367681.stm

When it comes to the space race, the Soviets dominated in the early days. Besides the obvious, they also had the first animals in space, first woman in space, first spacewalk....

Anybody ever watch that show Deadliest Warrior? They had an episode of Spetsnaz vs Green Berets I think. Pretty sure Spetznaz won on that occasion. End of thread!

Just kidding :) That show's results don't mean anything... It's a fun watch sometimes, but it is kind of dumb with too many random variables that they don't really take into account. One episode they said that SWAT was better than an elite counter terrorism unit from Germany. Then there's also the incredibly stupid Knight vs Pirate episode... Apples vs oranges in that one...

:1orglaugh

indeed - both nations each took 50% of OUR rocket scientists...

plus we had the first working jet fighter and the first stealth bomber..

if only we had used all that for more peaceful purposes... :Oh crap