I'm not.

I live in one of the most densely populated areas on Earth.

I'll be dead in hours. Don't care.

from that wiki on normalcy bias

you know what, i've got a theory and it's supported by normalcy bias. in reading about that norway mass murderer, i forget his name, but he said he was surprised how everyone stood around waiting for him to shoot them, even when he was reloading and clearly at a disadvantage, everyone just waited.

it struck home with me, do not hesitate. there's 1 chance in a disaster situation, i have to go go go go go go go

They did this stuff in the 50's and a lot of people built underground dungeons that they thought they could live in while the world went through nuclear winter.

I'm going with the Sad Boy strategy

two myths that if you get out of your head will save your life some day perhaps...

canned food isn't actually bad for you and canned food doesn't go bad after 6 months... You're welcome.

my advice after being in 2 wars:

1) get a water purifier...forget food and shit you will miss drinking water the most

2) buy lots of tobacco...you can barter it for food...it keeps well and you wont get murdered for it but if they know you have food you will...tobacco addicts will sell their soul for a smoke in times of crisis but will not group up and murder you for it...

3) forget gold...nobody will trade food for worthless metal...forget money...it will devalue too fast in times of emergency...

and what about bitcoins?

Spot on indeed.

Why would anyone on earth oppose someone who is prepared for something? That is as bizarre as people being opposed to you keeping ice in your freezer. It's your freezer and your ice, so who cares what you do with it? Why care what other people do?

The Cuban Missile Crisis almost gave them a chance to use them.

Thing is, history is full of horrible events. Just because people have prepared and nothing has happened doesn't mean it is all a waste. In fact, it is a great thing nothing happened. Not a single prepper actually wants any of these bad things to happen.

I totally agree with #1 and #2 but disagree with #3. Using an event that wasn't too long ago, Gold (along with other metals) was used widely during the Argentina crash. Coins, jewelry, bullion, whatever they had. Gold (along with Silver) has been a currency since the beginning of currency, it's not going anywhere. Someone will always be around to buy it, even if it is just to make something with it.

Read up on Argentina's crash, some valuable information out there about how things will play out during a meltdown. Gold, silver, smokes, ammo, knives, instant coffee packs, you name it, all used for bartering.

I live less than a mile from the Statue of Liberty, so my best best is to climb into Lady Liberty and hunker down, as she always seems to survive End-of-the-World events.

:thumbsup :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh
there's usually a cute chick left too.

That's about the most worthwhile post I've seen you make here. Thanks for not riddling it with :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh like you usually do. :D

But in answer to your comments, they're spot on for the most part except for the part about forgetting about food and gold. I doubt I'd personally go the gold route but there are certain preppers out there who've collected sizeable caches of $50 gold slips, it's like any other prep provision in that it can't hurt to have some on hand and it's light and easy to carry in a pouch.

Food, well, water is vital, yes, but if you only have water on hand and no food you're dead inside of a few weeks if for some reason you can't find any. Telling people to not worry about food when at this time they have the time to put some aside is, well, not good advice.

Tobacco and alcohol, coffee, and even porn materials I imagine would be bartering materials that would hold value in a post societal breakdown situation. Again, no harm at all in someone hording a supply of any of that for an acid-rainy day.

Again, good post.

Dyna, I forgot to ask you, in your bug-out plan, what if any security measures do you have in mind or in place, for:

A) your journey to get where you're going. If you're attacked by someone who wants your nice bag or pack full of goodies, etc. Maybe they like your shoes, or that nice jacket you're wearing.

And B) for when you get where you're going. What things do you have in place to defend the remote location you plan on making your home?

Also, if your plan A fails or is somehow compromised or overrun, do you have a blan B destination?

my main security is for stay in place, shotgun and bear spray. but primarily a very very low profile. i haven't mentioned my stash locally and since i can eat cold soup, meal replacement bars and make drinkable water, etc, i should be able to carry on without notice.

on a bugout, i still plan to go with the low profile. it's part of why i tried to lighten the load, my meal replacements take up very little space, i've only got~1400 cals/day. i plan to take the pepper spray with me but i doubt the shotgun, i don't plan on being noticed.

it's a family ranch that is my family's destination, it's not a doomsday destination per se, it just made sense when we were all coordinating communications post event. meet up at the ranch.

i do not have a plan b destination.. i'll prolly have to join a zombie outfit after 5 days, that's when shit hits the fan for me if i don't make the ranch.

You've obviously put a lot of thought into this, and for that I commend you.

If you don't mind I'll go through your post and critique it some. Keep in mind that my comments are based on my own experience and knowlege of secury, camping, survival, and a combined 25 years of working in the medical and security fields and thus knowing something extra about human nature.

Awesome. If you have sustainable renewable water and food resources that's great. But the experts would also point out that you could also stand to have yet another location in place that has at least some provisions in case you have to abandon your place for a while. Also, a backup water plan might be useful, as wells can be poisoned, they can also be tainted by bad environmental conditions. Also, how well would you be prepped to defend your little oasis?

But overall you'd likely score some good marks on that preppers show for having all that in place.

The experts would likely tell you that your remote location is a bit too far away for certain situations. You should probably set up at least one cache of provisions, extra gas, etc, along the route. Also have two or more routes you're familiar with to get where you're going if possible.

You should probably add to your in-home stores at least a little, in case it's just not safe to bug out for an extended period initially.

But having most of your needed stuffs already at your remote location scores you some bonus points for sure. Means you can travel light and not have to worry about moving and transferring and lugging a lot of provisions when you should be getting your ass out of Dodge.

Not nessessarily. For one thing one can still carry some essential bug-out items in a backpack even while on vacation. A small firstaid kit, a small fishing kit with pocket knife, some cereal bars and meal replacement bars, a few small but valuable barter items, etc. Stuff that doesn't weigh a lot or take up a lot of room but can get you far. It might not sound like much but it's something more than most would have, and it can buy you time enough to come up with a new plan for where you are at that moment.

Experts would advise in such scenarios having some type of impregnable bunker on one's property, preferably one that is already stocked with at least a few months worth of provisions and a ham radio to keep aprised of what's going on outside. Also, networking with your neighbors and having them on board with being prepared is said to be a great part of any plan, as people in a community are more apt to help each other in a crisis if many are on the same page prep-wise.

In other words if your nieghbors aren't prepped at all they're more likely to come and take what you have for themselves than help you.

There again, that's where having a series of small caches along the way already set up would really be a huge boost to your already fairly excellent plan.

That's 100% spot on. :thumbsup

There's a lot of great points in all that, and some major plusses to bolster your plan even further.

However, I'm quite certain that a funny thing happens to people in a major crisis situation. They start trusting unfamiliar faces a lot less, and start pointing weapons a lot sooner. Having a place set up in an area where your girlfriend knows people is great, but the more people there you both get to know and get friendly with the better.

Overall I have no doubt your overall preparations and plan would score you some good marks with the prepper experts. I'd look into setting up a backup water plan if I were you though. I saw one guy on an episode of Doomsday Preppers that had a homemade concrete water tank on his property. It was fireproof, bullet proof and even small bombs couldn't compromise it. Held about 400 gallons of water.


To everyone --- I know some of this stuff sounds extreme and ridiculous, but for someone who actually has a plan in place the thinking is if you're going to prepare for the worst there's no harm in taking a few extra steps towards doing it right, or at the very least 'better'. If shit ever does hit the fan a guy like Dirty here and his gf and/or family will have a lot of extra peace of mind that most of the rest of you won't enjoy.

As I said earlier, do you buy insurance? Car insurance? House insurance? Life? Medical? Hopefully you'll never need to actually use it, right? But it's nice to have it for peace of mind, right?

Think of prepping (even a little) as just another form of insurance.

If it were me I would probably raise that calorie intake while on the move. In a stay-put situaion your plan in that regard is fine, but while on your planned bugout and being outside, passing over rough terrain, avoiding dangers, etc, you'd be feeling the effects of just a low caloric intake after a few days if not sooner. I know you are knowlegeable in nutrition and know what your own metabolism is like, but I also know that in the kind of situation we're talking about you're going to need that extra energy.

The rest of what you said all sounds good. You might think about adding a small handgun to your bugout plan to replace the shotgun you'd be leaving behind. It would allow you to maintain your low profile but still provide a similar level of protection. The pepper or bear spray is an excellent idea.

If you do check out that Doomsday Prepper series, watch the episode "Escape from New York", there's some valuable advice in there for someone like yourself that has an on-foot part to their bugout plan.

I have about a months supply at my residence for my dog and I...but I have a hidden hideaway in the wilderness...and I do mean hidden...that I came across several years ago and have been stocking for much of the time since. It is also a place that has a year round supply of water and one could actually live off the land and its wildlife...without outside supplies. It only takes me about four hours to get to it and I periodically check it out to see if any other humans have been near it. Over the years I have not seen any signs of humans but a bear once did some damage.

My dog and I can live there for an indefinite period of time.

i can definitely add another brick of meal replacement bars, that would give me another 30% calories, i might even add 2 bricks, i think that is a good idea.

the thing i am realizing is inventorying the bag is an on-going process, i am often making adjustments and such to get it stocked properly.

i also have pediolite powder to replace electrolytes, etc, it's like gatorade without the sugar. key minerals and such, i figure in a stressful situation, it makes sense vital nutrients will be sapped.

yeah, i gave my handguns to parents for safekeeping, i could get my glock 19 but these days i'm so anti-gun my plan is to keep a low enough profile to not have to shoot to kill anybody.
it's not off the table by any stretch, it also add weight and i am concerned about that as well.

the spray i have is fox five point three

http://www.foxlabs.com/pepperspray.shtml


i'm going to snag that doomsday episode on amazon prime

:thumbsup

Awesome post! Thanks for such a detailed reply.

I know I'm going to miss replying to some of it, so much written there, but I'll hit some things that stood out.

- Water back up: We have a well, city water, collect rain water (used for gardening but can filter to drink), and as luck would have it a small river that runs through the property. The only real problem for us with water is during the dry season when the river mostly dries up and it doesn't rain for months. Of course that balances out in the monsoon season.

- Mid way location: That is something I've never thought of really and is a great idea. Will have to give that some thought and make sure the route taken would be THE route taken, or at least we could take others to get to the same mid area. It could serve as a nice weekend get away spot too, mid way would be some mountainous area.

- Locals: This is a wild card. Rural people already protect their own village. They have to because the police are mostly worthless. It seems silly to say but the power could go off today and 1/2 of them wouldn't skip a beat. The rural areas here are RURAL. They are all mostly farmers for the most part so food won't be an issue. However, the wild card is what will happen when the have-nots visit the haves. Perhaps a raid from another village, though, in the past this has been dealt with already here so it may not be that big of an issue. But SE Asians are violent and often respect violence, so if you had to shoot someone to make a point, that's just what you would have to do. :Oh crap

- Travel: I always do travel with a tiny first-aid kit and a few protein bars, but I would run out in 3 days. After that, not sure where it would go.

Overall, in the event of a real situation and we had to leave the city, we are out far enough to where we probably won't be bothered, and if we are it will be handled by the village people like it has been done for 100s of years. It's getting there than is the real concern. We could hold out here in the city for a while, but I wouldn't want to stay here long.

If I remember correctly you are a diabetic...and if so...what have you done about your meds...if anything?

Here's a tip for those with a bugout plan;

Instead of lugging a lot of water in a backpack just take a handkerchief or clean cloth of any type, and a baggie full of charcoal, something found in the remains of any fireplace or campfire. Scrape and pound the charcoal to a powder, cone up the hanky, pour some charcoal powder into the cloth, then pour the dirty water through the cone and let it drain through to a container you can drink from. The charcoal will filter it, the kerchief will filter it further, and what's left is clean drinking water.

Simple, easy, and dirt cheap to do.

yeah, it's been the hard part to sort out, i have emergency meds ready to go but i have to keep them in the fridge or they spoil. i do keep an extra set of syringes and test strips and glucose tablets in the bag.
i will have to try and snag the meds in the fridge on my way out if i can, that's the best i've come up with so far. i keep 18 months of insulin in there. the kitchen is on the way out of my place so it's not out of the question.

Well I now am a diabetic also...so it represents a bit of a problem for me but I am not that concerned about it. How severe is your problem?

i have advanced type 1 diabetes. that's about as severe as it gets. oh well, gotta drive what ya brung eh.

Well that is a tough break. Are any of your body parts deteriorating or do you have it under control?

You will really enjoy that particular episode. They're all good but that one specifically has some very valuable on-foot bugout tips from several different experts, particularly regarding self defense, pepper vs bear spray, tips for passing through rough neighborhoods, bugout bag actual essentials (very different from what most people think are essentials), and several tips on different ways of getting out of town alive.

Your anti-gun stance is commendable in these relatively normal times, but in the kinds of situations we're talking about it really has no place. We could be talking about a situation where millions of people are suddenly in dire straights, many of whom may suddenly not have any qualms about harming someone near them in order to feed their own. Or maybe they are simply opportunists who see that law and order rules no longer apply and they just do what they want, which may include stealing, looting, robbing, mugging, and if you mouth off or offer up any light resistance, killing. If you have any females with you they will be a potential target as well. Rape rates always seem to be among the things that rise in a major crisis situation.

An anti-gun stance has very little value in such a world.

You could however simply keep a small firearm hidden somewhere nearby, en route if it bothers you that much. Somewhere where it has zero chance of being found by anyone. Locked in a safety deposit box or locker that you would definitely have access to in a crisis would be ideal, as opposed to burrying it somewhere outside.


If Frank the anti gun freak gets wind of this thread he's going to have a heyday telling us all what 'cunts' we are. :D

hehe, ug.

yeah. i had a large portion of my foot removed recently, also er visits for diabetic gastroparesis (my stomach stops working and i go into uncontrollable vomiting that can only be stopped with a certain combination of medicines), and well, whatever. it is what it is and i am doing some alternative medicine to try to combat it, oxygen therapy and hydrogen peroxide infusions.

no.
i have the shittiest kind of type 1, it's called brittle, there's no real way to manage it over time, it's erratic.


i am not familiar with type 2, i figure that's what you have?, it's diff from type 1 as it is not an auto-immune disease but if you've recently been diagnosed, you'll do good for yourself to become fanatical about keeping your blood sugar within the proper limits. obsessed.

There's also an episode of Doomsday Preppers that involves a mother and daughter who are both diabetics. I forget the title of it but if you start watching the show you'll see it eventually. I think there was a tip or two in there that was useful for them, might be for you as well.

Damn. You are right...I am type 2 and it is basically under control now...that is why I am not very concerned about it...if push comes to shove.

i'll look for that diabetics episode, maybe pick up some tips. i'm going to keep reconsidering the sidearm, i enjoy owning guns and shooting them, whichis the other thing, i've gotten out of the habit of practicing shooting and i adhere to that with sidearms. with the shotgun, i feel more comfortable having it but not practicing shooting it.

gold is hard to sell, you can not sell a link in your gold chain to somebody for an egg...ive seen gold chains go for meals...a whole salary on a bag of flour...but you will easily get an egg for a cig...you can not strike quantity discounts because often all that is on offer is not enough for even a day...small micro transactions are the best if you want to eat regularly...cigs are so convenient in many ways...you may get murdered for lots of food or gasoline or even medication but not for cigs...I dont even smoke :1orglaugh

the bigger the disaster/war the less gold and money is worth...after the war is another thing but if we are talking about survival strategies then tobacco is a god send...I would not mind having a gold bar but if I knew war was going to break out again I would convert it to tobacco without thinking...

The episode i watched earlier today was insane. This guy spent nearly $200K on a prefab drop-in-ground bunker, made out of corrugated steel piping coated with a zinc oxide enamel. It was the size of a small submarine, and the finished interior of it was incredible. It looked like the inside of an A class RV, except without the benefit of windows for a view. Because of the cylindrical shape of it they were able to bury it a lot deeper underground than, say, a shipping container which are generaly square and rectangular and thus can't support as much weight.

I swear I could live in one of these things though. it had a beautiful floor, under which was enough room to store a ton of provisions. There was a beautiful kitchen and dining area, a nice bedroom area, a computerized command center with surface cameras and a ham radio. A fully working shower and toilet, ligting and appliances, a microwave, and all of it run independant of any outside service. There was a system at the back end of the thing that filters incoming air completely in the all 3 ways of major concern. There was also a large flatscreen tv and entertainment center. Not a square inch of space was wasted, yet there was still a lot of livable room.

The main hachway entrance was at one end and was quite secure with laser-cut perfectly sealed and very thick metal doors, impervious to gas or fire attacks. But at the other end they also included a well hidden emergency exit hatch. The guy could go up through there at any time and take out anyone attacking his main entrance.

The guy who manufactures this thing operates out of California. I tell you if any of you start going the way of a hardcore prepper this custom bunker would be like your ultimate prepping orgasm.

I happened to catch that episode sometime in the past.

they had that bunker manufacturer on modern marvels. impressive.

Then there was the episode where a guy had purchased an entire decomissioned nuclear missile silo, and was in the process of pouring in new concrete to create about 10-12 new levels. The finished plans showed he is putting in a large pool and spa and fitness center on one level, common areas for gatherings on other levels, and enough fully designed apartments for up to 70 people. It looked like every level and apartment would have digital 'windows' built into the walls that could show a variety of views, from rural to urban, even to overlooking the Golden Gate Bridge. You would almost not even know you were 100's of feet underground. Absolutely secure using several layers of protection including the standard government-made fencing surrounding the facitity that was still intact, a new state of the art survielance system, hugely thick metal entry port, and the guy himself had taken care of it further by himself providing all manner of weaponry and such. There was room on several levels for thousands of pounds of provisions and plans and systems in place for ongoing food and water replenishing. And one of the biggest positive signs of it all was that to me at least the guy himself seemed very solid, personable and sane. Far too often these prepper types give off a really weird unstable vibe.

Buy-in price for an apartment: 1-2 million $

our ex-commie country is full of fall out bunkers it was a great place to hide during air raids but if you are locked inside there is little you can do about somebody setting you on fire though the ventilation shafts or even burying you alive...most bunkers have a handle on the outside, the army/locals will chain/weld you inside if they can not get in or do not want to waste time with you...bunker doors open to the inside...

its protection against radiation and bombs but not against people...every single local knows about your bunker and the moment they get hungry you will get visited...bombs are cheaper than food in times of war...you can get a bomb for less money than a meal...they will not get through your bunker door with a bomb but they may well be able to bury your entrance...

also the army/locals/whoever will do house to house sweeps...they will not risk getting shot if you do not comply , they will throw a hand grenade inside your house or plain set it on fire...they will 100% visit your bunker its just what happens in such times and you will not "Rambo" it out trust me on this its not like in the movies...

store tobacco....in many different places...make it look like you are in dire straits...avoid group shelters everybody and their mother knows about them already...

While what you're saying isn't wrong, in the particular case that you quoted we're not talking about the usual bunker. It's an entirely revamped decomissioned Atlas missile silo from the 1960's, the thing is huge. It's not just a few people hiding in a hole, that guy will have well over 50 people and as many as 70 to work with and have trained. If anyone wants to attempt any of the things you're suggesting they'll first have to breach the facility's outer defenses to even get close to the entryway. The silo was constructed originally to withstand a direct nuclear strike. Modern security upgrades have been made to the perimeter fencing and defenses the goverment had originally in place.

Watch the episode. You need to see just what that guy is putting together before saying it wouldn't work. Also, your mindset is geared mostly for war scenarios, where either one's own government forces or an invading force is threatening the region. These preppers are trying to be ready for all manner of disasters, such as global economic collapse, tsunamis, level 5 tornados, major hurricanes, anything that could disrupt public services and cause major unrest or panic in the population. In such instances we aren't talking about scumbag militias coming around and sealing people inside their shelter or tossing grenades into houses (things that Canadian and US military/police personnel aren't likely to be doing to their own people, the people they are trying to protect), we're talking about defending one's place or bunker from just regular people out their who simply aren't prepared, most of whom aren't likely to possess bombs or grenades or even have the slightest clue how to make them. Most will simply want food, some will be willing to steal it or kill for it.

By the way it appears that several of these homemade bunker preppers have taken great steps to ensure the location of their bunkers are completely unknown to anyone but themselves, even going so far as to hire non-local contractors to install them. One guy on the show I've been talking about even says his is so far from civilization that it is only accessible by pontoon plane. He's a pilot of course, he flies himself and his wife up to the spot, they walk quite far through the bush and I'm telling you, you could be standing right next to the hatchway and not know there was a bunker there, it's that well hidden. Chances are pretty good that no one's going to bother them much less find them.

Lastly, there isn't a prepper alive who can say with any truth that they are 100% prepared for anything and everything that might occur. Some are well protected in the event of certain natural phenomena, but wouldn't last long in another type of crisis. Some are prepared for many types of terror attacks and bombing of cities but would likely die with the rest in the event of a worldwide pandemic flu outbreak. Others are well-prepped for the flu but their plan holds no promise to help them in a major earthquake, and so on.

But as far as preparedness goes I think this missile silo guy will be just fine.

TIP:

To make a simple water purifier just sit any clear bottle full of water on a sheet of heavy aluminum foil and leave it out in the sun for 6 hours.

@ Crucifissio > I forgot to mention that most of those homemade bunker types have put in a secret well-hidden emergency escape hatch. So unless your Serbian militia mob of psychos finds both entrances they won't be sealing anyone in.

By the way, just as an aside, I have to wonder what manner of sinkhole does one have to live in where your own people in authority (government, military, police, local militia) all have it in their nature the tendancy to "seal people inside their bunkers" or randomly "toss grenades into people's homes" if they can't get (as in steal, appropriate, etc) what they want?

I think I'd move.

i found the doomsday prepper episode on the new yorkers, plan to watch it during super terrific tv happy hour today