A little something for the liberals...... - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

AaronM · 02-24-2003, 10:18 AM

100 BIATCH!

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

You don't seem to comprehend the analogy. The "food stamps" you are talking about are exactly what would change the situation for the better - the rich giving up wealth to feed the poor.

Also, did I ever say the rich should give up all their wealth? I mentioned in my post that extra wealth would mean a 10th car for the rich, while it would mean food or education for the poor.

Personally, I have no problem with certain people being richer than others. However, the richer you are, the more you can spare while still being rich. It's not about equal distribution of property/income, but about providing the basics for those that need it. Ofcourse, the rich will still have way more money available for luxury goods, there´s nothing wrong with that. But first the basics for everyone need to be taken care of.

The point with providing the basics for those that need it is that it also benefits the rich. The rich don't get rich all by themselves, they require employees, consumers, infrastructure, etc. The poor are essential for this. Let the poor starve and the whole economy will suffer.

Besides that, the whole idea of the rich being rich because they work harder is fundamentally flawed. Wealth is primarily caused by wealth - the rich can get their children a good education, a good social network, money to start up companies, carreer opportunities etc. The poor can´t. So, for most of the rich their wealth isn´t something they achieved by themselves, but something they achieved because of the chances that were given to them.

And again.... we are to let YOU decide what is "extra wealth" ?

You will dive into the personal life of anyone YOU think might be working too hard, making too much money and see what they spend it on - so YOU can decide how much you'll take away to give to the bum on the street corner?

NAture calles it survival of the fittest - EVERY TIME we go againt nature we fuck up - you are going againt nature - Man will ALWAYS strive to better himself - as long as there is a benefit - YOU want to take that away foolish one ?

Everything you suggest has been tried - we called it communism - it failed.... as I said before - you can make it look good on paper - but that is all.

beside - DREAM ON

theking · 02-24-2003, 10:25 AM

The working poor do work hard and they do not have disposable income, which it is my understanding constitutes the majority of the poor in the USA. Depending upon which study one relies upon the current minimum wage of today would have to be between $8.00-$10.50 per hour to be equivilent to the minimum wage of years past and of course the minimum wage has never really been a livable wage.

Libertine · 02-24-2003, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

Everything you suggest has been tried - we called it communism - it failed.... as I said before - you can make it look good on paper - but that is all.

beside - DREAM ON

Ok, I've had enough of your stupidity. Go get a brain transplant, you fucking moron.
If intelligence is hereditary, you are living evidence that the evolution theory has some serious flaws.

What I suggest has pretty much been tried, we call it European countries like the Netherlands. You can make it look good on paper, and... that's not all. It pretty much works.

There is more to this world than just pure capitalism and communism, dimwit.

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
For those that think taxes limit freedom:

Freedom requires certain things. For instance food, so you can stay alive. And a house, so you have a place to sleep, rest, study or do work. And ofcourse chances at a good education, so with hard work you can enhance your knowledge and find jobs. But medical care is essential as well, so your freedom is not taken away by illness. And physical protection is obviously just as essential, since without it anyone with bad intent can just take your freedom away.

Now, if people are entitled to freedom, they must also be entitled to those things - otherwise, they don't have freedom at all.

Now, taxes take away a certain amount of freedom. However, the freedom that can be provided when using them to fill the basic needs of all is much greater.

Note that I'm not talking about equal redistribution of all goods - just about filling the basic needs of those who need it.

No creature on Earth is "entitled" is anything....

You want food - you grow it or you kill it. You want a house, you build one - and from there we left the caves and nothing has changed since.

ALL creatures make make their own home. It is foolish to place man outside of nature.

I can't imagine the horrors of a society like you describe....

We would ALL have cars and other "quality" products like those that came from communist Russia?

Ohhhh - I wish I could have lived there!!!!!

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack

You are definitely dreaming that's for sure...

Now I'm going to sleep to dream pleasant dreams of a presidential assasination....

Yeah... and your Mother.

Till now you are amusing at best....

Now you are a sick mother fucker who should be shipped off to Iraq for target practice for the rape squads.....

Libertine · 02-24-2003, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

No creature on Earth is "entitled" is anything....

You want food - you grow it or you kill it. You want a house, you build one - and from there we left the caves and nothing has changed since.

ALL creatures make make their own home. It is foolish to place man outside of nature.

I can't imagine the horrors of a society like you describe....

We would ALL have cars and other "quality" products like those that came from communist Russia?

Ohhhh - I wish I could have lived there!!!!!

So, humans are not entitled to anything?
There is nothing wrong with it if I stab you to death and take your belongings?
That's morally acceptable?

Oh, by the way, the law of nature which you seem so fond of has been proven many years ago. Ever heard of the gap between "is" and "ought" and the <a href="http://www.cuyamaca.net/bruce.thompson/Fallacies/naturalistic.asp" target="_blank">naturalistic fallacy</a>? Do some reading, you might learn something.

theking · 02-24-2003, 10:46 AM

As for the rich paying taxes...

I will use three of my friends for example. Two are worth several millions of dollars each They are self made, as they came from working class families and they both were working class, but the companies that they worked for provided an income that left them with a certain amount of disposable money and they invested wisely in one thing or another and grew their wealth. The other friend is a doctor (general practice). He is not worth the several million that the other two friends are. He spends his money about as fast as it comes in on one thing or another. He pays taxes on about $300,000.00 per year. He pays substantially more personal income tax then the two millionaire friends do because of the way the two millionaire friends have their income structured (neither use creative accounting other that what is legal).

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking
It is my understanding that the largest group of poor in the USA are the working poor. It is also my understanding that it is this group that receive the bulk of government subsidies of one type or another. The bulk of the poor have jobs but the employers are not required to may a livable wage. The current minimum wage is actually worth less than the minimum wage of thirty years ago, so the working poor are poorer than they were thirty years ago.

It is also my understanding that when the government puts out its employment stats they consider anyone that is employed 20 hours per week as being employed.

It is my understanding that the Liberal cry babies defined "Working Poor"

Here in America, many of those defined "working poor" have 2 TV's, a cell phone, 1.5 cars, go on vacation every 2.5 years, goes out to eat every 12 days and sees a movie once every 2 months.

And hate communism

Get Real Man.....

theking · 02-24-2003, 10:55 AM

Taxes and tax laws have changed since the days of Howard Hughe (spelling) but as some may recall he was a billionaire and according to a book that I just recently read written by Noah Dietriech he paid personal income tax on $50,000.00 per year.

theking · 02-24-2003, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

It is my understanding that the Liberal cry babies defined "Working Poor"

Here in America, many of those defined "working poor" have 2 TV's, a cell phone, 1.5 cars, go on vacation every 2.5 years, goes out to eat every 12 days and sees a movie once every 2 months.

And hate communism

Get Real Man.....

You keep bringing up communism. There is not now, nor has there ever been, a "communist" nation in the history of the world.

In addition you can buy a TV, a cell phone, and 1.5 cars combined for less than $1000.00 so what is your point? If it is the poor are not poor then try again.

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

So, humans are not entitled to anything?
There is nothing wrong with it if I stab you to death and take your belongings?
That's morally acceptable?

Well of course not you silly fucker....

Not being "entitled" to a steak dinner or 10% of my money has nothing to do with anybody killing anyone - or for theft.

(Kinda of a stupid question huh?)

Besides if you did - then my tribe would kick your tribe's ass.

We are stong - we worked for everything we have.

Your tribe will be weak - Half of them lay around, living off the work of the others - (who are starting to get tied of the lazy bastards so they're fight amongst themselves....)

See... it wouldn't even work in cave man days.....

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking
Taxes and tax laws have changed since the days of Howard Hughe (spelling) but as some may recall he was a billionaire and according to a book that I just recently read written by Noah Dietriech he paid personal income tax on $50,000.00 per year.

Yeah - like you said - times have changed....

Tell me - in your "world"

How does a "poor" man go about advancing himself? - God forbid he has desires of being rich someday?

And also - Why is it YOU get to give away what YOU have defined as my "excess wealth"?

If you do - What will I use to give to the things I want to give to - like my church or my kid's school?

You want to take away any right I have to give away my own excess wealth? - Europe works that way?

CDSmith · 02-24-2003, 11:21 AM

Whatever people. Fact is, well, I have two points to offer at this time.

1) Everyone has or should have some basic rights, yes. No need to stretch anyone's meaning to severely warped levels guys, no one is saying that people should be able to kill one another freely. But one of those basic rights is to be resourceful, to find other ways of earning income (Other than working for min. wage), the right to work oneself out of poverty.

2) There are people that came from the lower income brackets that have actually done quite well for themselves. Take the people who have no rich parents to send them to college, but they get a job bartending or bussing tables and they pay their tuition and eventually earn their degree and GET that higher paying job. Or what about a guy like me who began working for LESS than minimum wage back in the early 80's.... a thing that heppens when one works for family sometimes........ then worked for minimum wage for 4 years, after which I worked in the health care field for 15 years. During that time I tried several other ventures, everything from painting houses on the side to providing security for large outdoor rock festivals. I also ran a network marketing business out of my home, and it was that business that taught me to WORK SMARTER, not harder.

That is one of the fundamental reasons why I chose to start websites. If run properly, websites can do much of the work FOR you. Does a website not earn you money while you sleep? yes, it does. SO.... my second point is that everyone in a free society is free to get off their fat fucking brokeass hamhock-draggin-asses and go find a way to get out of the rut they're in. Everyone has the right to do that.

What they do NOT have the right to do (except under a communist flag) is to tell me that because I am now more successful that I have to part with a larger share of my earnings to support those that refuse to excersise the right I just mentioned. I'm all for helping other motivated people, but there are too many crapsuckers out there who just want to do the minimum and get paid the maximum.

Pure socialism sucks. It takes away the drive to succeed, because what's the point in succeeding? Your success is just taken away and re-distributed to those that didn't earn it. Let's be a country of sheep. Weeeee.

12clicks · 02-24-2003, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by djdez
When you say something over simplistic...expect the same type of response.

ok squirrelly. here you go.

Quote:

Originally posted by djdez
Noone is saying you don't pay a lot of taxes. The thing is you're not paying taxes on a lot of money that you could/should be paying.

please back this simplistic statement up with some facts.
What money am I not paying taxes on that I should be?

Quote:

Originally posted by djdez
Noone is saying you don't pay a lot in taxes, but we get more tax breaks and tax offsets than the poor do.

No we don't. as in the example, many many poor pay no income tax.

Quote:

Originally posted by djdez
Please So, I have no problem giving some breaks back to 'the working poor'. The lazy poor is a different subject.

the working poor get tax breaks EVERY single time there is one to be given out. Giving a tax break across the board is the issue and when it isn't done that way its no different than state sanctioned theft.

SquarePants · 02-24-2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
You think too much dude.

http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/...6_clark_1.html

some of these islands come pre-owned and already developed.

And think about it..... at $50k x 50 webmasters, that's 2.5 mil. I think we'd be able to run a fucking cable out and build a few dozen nice cabins. Probably have enough to buy a nice cabin cruiser too, for those monthly trips to the mainland.

So how are you going to keep it up?? Even if the infastructure is in place, you will have to pay someone to maintain it. So if 12Clicks takes more shits then you and plugs up the system, who pays??

Also since you are all so rich and the idol of all (cough, cough) who is going to protect your shores. All of you?? So when will you have time to work??

Nice daydream.

Libertine · 02-24-2003, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

Well of course not you silly fucker....

Not being "entitled" to a steak dinner or 10% of my money has nothing to do with anybody killing anyone - or for theft.

(Kinda of a stupid question huh?)

Besides if you did - then my tribe would kick your tribe's ass.

We are stong - we worked for everything we have.

Your tribe will be weak - Half of them lay around, living off the work of the others - (who are starting to get tied of the lazy bastards so they're fight amongst themselves....)

See... it wouldn't even work in cave man days.....

It seems like you continue missing the point so utterly and completely, that there is little sense in arguing with you.

If it is a bad thing when people kill you and take your belongings, there must be a reason for that. Maybe it's that you are entitled to life? Now, aren't you entitled to freedom as well?

(as for your tribe-example: do you realize you are spouting complete nonsense which has nothing to do with anything whatsoever in this discussion?)

CDSmith · 02-24-2003, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SquarePants
shit shit negative blah blah blabbetty blah blah shit shit.

People who lack the ability to dream are people I would rather have servicing my sewage system than actually associating with.

People who laugh and scoff at the dreams of others deserve ziltch.

theking · 02-24-2003, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

Yeah - like you said - times have changed....

Tell me - in your "world"

How does a "poor" man go about advancing himself? - God forbid he has desires of being rich someday?

And also - Why is it YOU get to give away what YOU have defined as my "excess wealth"?

If you do - What will I use to give to the things I want to give to - like my church or my kid's school?

You want to take away any right I have to give away my own excess wealth? - Europe works that way?

In my world, I was the son of a career soldier. After my fathers death I was raised by a man that was a career soldier. My father was not very well off financially, but the man that raised me was and he became that way off of a soldiers pay and a lifetime of investing in one thing or another (primarily properties). I too entered the military with the intentions of being a career soldier, but after 12 years of service the first gulf war brought my days of being a soldier to an end. I followed the advice of the man that raised me (not as well as he would have liked) and I too am reasonably well off and pay a substantial amount in taxes.

Just as the man that raised me was proud to pay taxes, I too am proud to pay taxes. It is what has helped to make this country a great place to live. I use an accountant and I leave it up to him too see that I do not have to pay any more taxes than I am legally liable for (I will not allow any "creative" accounting), but I do not begrudge my fair share of taxes. I have been and I still am 100% against Bush's tax cuts. I am for government managing the tax dollars better than what they do, but that day will probably never come.

So it is not your money that I am talking about, it is my money too and I certainly do not begrudge my money being used to help those that are less fortunate than I for whatever the reasons may be that they walk in the shoes they walk in or bed that they may have made for themselves. There are many reasons why not everyone can be sucessful (financially or other wise) in life. Not everyone is born equal, period.

SquarePants · 02-24-2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
People who lack the ability to dream are people I would rather have servicing my sewage system than actually associating with.

Didn't say you are a fuckwad but you seem to be proving it now.

I asked how you are going to keep everything up??

Taxes are the only way to make it fair to all. Or is you plan to have a committee and decide who took the dump and plugged up the system and then has to fix it.

Problem with having me do it, I won't be living on Fantasy Island. I will be here in the states, where I will at least have an income. And troops to protect my shores. When we see you are too rich, I am sure our Prez will dream up some terrorist scheme and invade your beach, kick your ass and then come home and tell us how it seemed like Iraq.

CDSmith · 02-24-2003, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SquarePants
Didn't say you are a fuckwad but you seem to be proving it now.

I asked how you are going to keep everything up??

Taxes are the only way to make it fair to all. Or is you plan to have a committee and decide who took the dump and plugged up the system and then has to fix it.

Problem with having me do it, I won't be living on Fantasy Island. I will be here in the states, where I will at least have an income. And troops to protect my shores. When we see you are too rich, I am sure our Prez will dream up some terrorist scheme and invade your beach, kick your ass and then come home and tell us how it seemed like Iraq.

Dude, lighten up. You're like the biggest source of negativity I've seen yet. Why not stick your head farther up your ass? Yeah, that'd be good.

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

It seems like you continue missing the point so utterly and completely, that there is little sense in arguing with you.

If it is a bad thing when people kill you and take your belongings, there must be a reason for that. Maybe it's that you are entitled to life? Now, aren't you entitled to freedom as well?

(as for your tribe-example: do you realize you are spouting complete nonsense which has nothing to do with anything whatsoever in this discussion?)

No - - you still don't get it....

We are NOT entitled to life anymore than the 1 in 1000 fish eggs that aren't eaten by their mother...

What we DO have - as do all creatures - is the right to DEFEND our life - and do with it what we want.

We are not entitled to Freedom - we FOUGHT for it - we EARNED ir - and to keep it, we have to DEFEND it.

All by men who had a reason - the very reason you want to take away.

I'm sorry the tribal thing went over your head - that was about as basic as I could make it for you.

And I've asked 4 times now.... Why do YOU think YOU are capible of determining what is excess wealth - what is too much money - and who are you going it to - how much, and who isn't getting any? - You know - kind of basic stuff you keep leaving out.

SquarePants · 02-24-2003, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
Dude, lighten up. You're like the biggest source of negativity I've seen yet. Why not stick your head farther up your ass? Yeah, that'd be good.

I have been following this thread, seems when someone doesn't fit your party or click, its a gangbang, Oh sorry if your not into my neg. drivel. Maybe YOU should lighten up.

Gets old watching everyone slam everyone anymore. Maybe let others spread ideas, be them good or bad without doing the typical

I see so many bandwagoners doing.

CDSmith · 02-24-2003, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SquarePants
I asked how you are going to keep everything up??

Taxes are the only way to make it fair to all. Or is you plan to have a committee and decide who took the dump and plugged up the system and then has to fix it.

Problem with having me do it, I won't be living on Fantasy Island. I will be here in the states, where I will at least have an income. And troops to protect my shores. When we see you are too rich, I am sure our Prez will dream up some terrorist scheme and invade your beach, kick your ass and then come home and tell us how it seemed like Iraq.

Squarepunk, for one thing guys like you would never be invited to be a part of such a "dream" as this. For another thing, there are more noted webmasters than you realize who have taken a liking to the idea of this "dream".

If there were such a plan in the works, why would I spill any of it to the likes of you? Your questions would be about as important to me as which brand of asswipe to take along.

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

So it is not your money that I am talking about, it is my money too and I certainly do not begrudge my money being used to help those that are less fortunate than I for whatever the reasons may be that they walk in the shoes they walk in or bed that they may have made for themselves. There are many reasons why not everyone can be sucessful (financially or other wise) in life. Not everyone is born equal, period.

Leave MY money alone - do with your what you want...

But - tell me...
who are you assigning to decided how much of my money is excess - or yours, or the guy down the street that if it weren't for whoever taking his money was going to hire six new workers?

Think man.....

SquarePants · 02-24-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
Squarepunk, for one thing guys like you would never be invited to be a part of such a "dream" as this. For another thing, there are more noted webmasters than you realize who have taken a liking to the idea of this "dream".

If there were such a plan in the works, why would I spill any of it to the likes of you? Your questions would be about as important to me as which brand of asswipe to take along.

Spoken like a true Dicktator

12clicks · 02-24-2003, 12:01 PM

Punkboy, let me point out all of your incorrect horse shit again so you can pretend its nonsense. (the tactic of the clown who can't back up his statements)

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

You seem to have no grasp whatsoever of the way things are in this world.

son, I'll compare life experiences any time you'd like.

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
First of all, let me start with your idea that the rich are rich because they earned it, and not because of chances given to them.

why, because you completely ignored my facts about people being taxed at the rich rate even though they aren't rich?
ok, you bable on, I'll refute it.

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
A good education helps in getting a good job, right?
Take a quick look at what tuition is for colleges like Harvard, Yale, Princeton.

Rich people have to pay to get in, poor people get scolarships and loans to get in. So the rich pay and the poor are gifted. Are you saying that if your a poor strait A student you can't land a good college? if so, you're a liar.

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Having some start-up money helps in setting up a company, right?
Parents tend to lend their children money for such things.

money that the parents earned and you have no business trying to grab you socialist punk.

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
For instance, some friends of mine just got $50k from their parents for starting up their own company.

again, you have no right to any of that money nor do you have a right to decide how the parents spend the money they earned

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Also, banks will be much more likely to lend money to you if you have rich parents.

really? I don't remember telling the bank who my parents are to get a loan. I just remember having to show them i had a job and a record of knowing how to pay back a loan. are you saying that poor people can't get a job or pay back a loan?

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Having a good social network helps becoming succesful in life, right?

Yes it does and you aquire a good social network by working hard in school, getting into a good college and networking with other like minded people.
how do you think its done? by taking money from rich people?

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Having your parents give you a position in their company works wonders.

Thats why responsible parents do it when they can. what's your point?

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Joining a good fraternity (contribution: a few k $ per year) in college works wonders. Having your father play golf with the owner of a company you want to work in works wonders.

yes it does and these are the perks of hard work. not standing in the welfare line waiting for your check.

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Now, you say their parents or ancestors earned it. So? What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

to the dopey socialist, nothing. to the rest of society there is a huge difference between earning and waiting for your handout.

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
My great grandfather died while fighting the nazi's, does that make me a hero?

No, it makes you a socialist with no concept of how the world works.

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

Now, you seem to think the poor are all lazy people that are unwilling to work. Bullshit. There are plenty people working 10 hours a day every day at minimum wage just to be able to eat at night.

only if they don't have the ability to work there way up in the world. Minimum wage is a starting point. too stupid to get beyond that, its not my problem the world needs those jobs filled too.

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Besides that, do you really think everyone without a job does not want one?

Yes

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
I know many people who are looking for jobs all day, every day but are unable to find anything. So, should they all just starve just so you can buy that 10th car?

Yes they should because if I were out of work, I could find a job the second I needed one. Perhaps the many people you know looking for jobs are too proud to take a job they consider below them. perhaps this is because *unemployed* is no longer the embarrassment it once was or should be.

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
I personally have never been in any financial trouble in my life, and most likely never will be.

I have been and am in a much better position than you to know the truth.

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
However, I'm not so much of an asshole that I will whine about having to pay taxes that are necessary to feed the poor.

No, you're more the asshole that wants your betters to pay *their* money to cover *your* socialist agenda.

CDSmith · 02-24-2003, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SquarePants
I have been following this thread, seems when someone doesn't fit your party or click, its a gangbang, Oh sorry if your not into my neg. drivel. Maybe YOU should lighten up.

Right, yet here you are cockin off to me over a simple dream, a fantasy. Let's laugh about that shall we?

Quote:

Originally posted by SquarePants
Gets old watching everyone slam everyone anymore. Maybe let others spread ideas, be them good or bad without doing the typical I see so many bandwagoners doing.

They're being allowed to state their opinions, and I am exercising the opportunity to state mine, I don't know what your majfunction is over that. It's called a discussion. You don't see me calling everyone else "fuckwad" and "fuckwit" do you? Just guys like you seem to crack open the schoolyard shit when the going gets a little tough eh?

I feel like laughing some more. Don't you? Let's all laugh together...

PornoDoggy · 02-24-2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

It is my understanding that the Liberal cry babies defined "Working Poor"

Here in America, many of those defined "working poor" have 2 TV's, a cell phone, 1.5 cars, go on vacation every 2.5 years, goes out to eat every 12 days and sees a movie once every 2 months.

And hate communism

Get Real Man.....

Where did you get these figures? I mean, I suspect from an orifice within your body, but I sure would like to see the basis for that information.

SquarePants · 02-24-2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
They're being allowed to state their opinions, and I am exercising the opportunity to state mine, I don't know what your majfunction is over that. It's called a discussion. You don't see me calling everyone else "fuckwad" and "fuckwit" do you? Just guys like you seem to crack open the schoolyard shit when the going gets a little tough eh?

I feel like laughing some more. Don't you? Let's all laugh together...

Okay I am now laughing. I am not against the island dream, hell I have even thought about it, but eventually, it would need to have all involved pitch in, be it money or working, that my board nemisis is taxes. That was my point to begin with.

I always have tried to look past day one and see day 50 or what ever. Course I didn't get started in pron, but instead roofing and construction, I had to do some hard thinking about my employees and stuff. So, here's to you island:

Promise to stay away.

Libertine · 02-24-2003, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

No - - you still don't get it....

We are NOT entitled to life anymore than the 1 in 1000 fish eggs that aren't eaten by their mother...

What we DO have - as do all creatures - is the right to DEFEND our life - and do with it what we want.

We are not entitled to Freedom - we FOUGHT for it - we EARNED it - and to keep it, we have to DEFEND it.

All by men who had a reason - the very reason you want to take away.

I'm sorry the tribal thing went over your head - that was about as basic as I could make it for you.

And I've asked 4 times now.... Why do YOU think YOU are capable of determining what is excess wealth - what is too much money - and who are you going it to - how much, and who isn't getting any? - You know - kind of basic stuff you keep leaving out.

We are not entitled to life? Better yet, you are not entitled to life? So, if you are not entitled to it, and I can break your defenses and kill you to get your possessions, it is morally ok?
If not, why?

Oh, and about your question: you are still assuming I am a proponent of an equal distribution of all goods, in other words, a communist. I am not. What I am is someone who thinks the basics - food, shelter, medical care - should be provided for those who can't provide them for themselves - not those who don't want to work. The reason for letting the rich pay more for this than the poor is quite simple; the rich can pay more than the poor without it hurting too much.
Compare it to carrying goods - if a strong man, a weak man, a woman and a young child would have to carry a bunch of stones somewhere, would it not be logical and just to let the strong man carry the most, and the child the least?

theking · 02-24-2003, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

Leave MY money alone - do with your what you want...

But - tell me...
who are you assigning to decided how much of my money is excess - or yours, or the guy down the street that if it weren't for whoever taking his money was going to hire six new workers?

Think man.....

I am assigning the job to our duly elected officials (the government-city, county, state, federal) and when I don't like what my duly elected official is doing to represent me that duly elected official will not get my vote next time around. In case you hadn't noticed that is our system.

Hire six new workers at what wage? The minimum wage which is actually worth less than it was thirty years ago. "Man lives by more than bread alone".

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
Squarepunk, for one thing guys like you would never be invited to be a part of such a "dream" as this. For another thing, there are more noted webmasters than you realize who have taken a liking to the idea of this "dream".

If there were such a plan in the works, why would I spill any of it to the likes of you? Your questions would be about as important to me as which brand of asswipe to take along.

I just don't they understand what a good conservative capitalist can do when he sets his mind to it.

Take 50 of them with a few bucks....

The idea... Money they can't take and give away..... NO social programs... WHAT? Scares the fuck out of you socialist liberials don't it?

SquarePants · 02-24-2003, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

I just don't they understand what a good conservative capitalist can do when he sets his mind to it.

Take 50 of them with a few bucks....

The idea... Money they can't take and give away..... NO social programs... WHAT? Scares the fuck out of you socialist liberials don't it?

No, again you seem to miss what I am saying, who is going to fix things??

You see one day, I see all year. That's the difference.

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

We are not entitled to life? Better yet, you are not entitled to life? So, if you are not entitled to it, and I can break your defenses and kill you to get your possessions, it is morally ok?
If not, why?

Oh, and about your question: you are still assuming I am a proponent of an equal distribution of all goods, in other words, a communist. I am not. What I am is someone who thinks the basics - food, shelter, medical care - should be provided for those who can't provide them for themselves - not those who don't want to work. The reason for letting the rich pay more for this than the poor is quite simple; the rich can pay more than the poor without it hurting too much.
Compare it to carrying goods - if a strong man, a weak man, a woman and a young child would have to carry a bunch of stones somewhere, would it not be logical and just to let the strong man carry the most, and the child the least?

I believe you are confused about the meaning "entitled".

To be entitled to something - to have a right - it has to be given to you.

Someone has to give you the right to 'whatever' - if you are entitled to something - someone has to give it to you.

If you earn something - then it is not an entitlement.

Buying food is not - Food-Stamp are.

Are you following me?

Now, with that said - what the fuck has that go to do with me defending myself and my family?

As far as carrying rocks - I hire the kid down the street - he likes working for what he has.

CDSmith · 02-24-2003, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SquarePants

No, again you seem to miss what I am saying, who is going to fix things??

You see one day, I see all year. That's the difference.

Okay, I'll play along here. Squarebob, what makes you think that many webmasters aren't skilled in other areas? I can only speak for myself, but the fact is --- I did not go the college route. I graduated high school, worked at shit jobs for a few years, then went back to school and took electronics for a year, after which I became........ a security officer in a large hospital. I then took first aid and health care training and eventually became a health care worker in that hospital, and my wage more than doubled.

I worked the trades for years on the side. I eventually bought some rental property, and have never had to hire a handyman other than specialty jobs. I think I know how to clear a drain or dig an outhouse for that matter. I'm also quite sure that among so many skilled people there would be some ability to cooperate and get things done collectively. Imagine 50 pure capitalists all working together...

Libertine · 02-24-2003, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks
...

Once again a post full of nonsense.

First of all, what you said about people being taxed at the rich rate while they aren't rich: Never have I said that the system in the US works properly and doesn't need improvement.

Second, you have said absolutely nothing that disqualifies my point about how having wealthy parents will most likely help you to get wealthy yourself.
The only thing that was even remotely on-topic was your response that poor straight A students get into good colleges as well. That makes something very clear: if you are poor, you will need much more talent to reach prosperity than if you are rich. That actually is a rather good example of my whole point.

You made your ignorance quite clear with saying that you believe that everyone who doesn't have a job doesn't want one.

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

I am assigning the job to our duly elected officials (the government-city, county, state, federal) and when I don't like what my duly elected official is doing to represent me that duly elected official will not get my vote next time around. In case you hadn't noticed that is our system.

So... what's your fucking problem?

Quote:

Hire six new workers at what wage? The minimum wage which is actually worth less than it was thirty years ago. "Man lives by more than bread alone".

OK then... we won't hire any of them at all - and they can go live off the government - on YOUR money.

(and no, it would have been high paying construction jobs. But you pissed the guy off with your whinning and trying to take his money so he moved the job to Mexico just to piss you off back.)

Libertine · 02-24-2003, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

I believe you are confused about the meaning "entitled".

To be entitled to something - to have a right - it has to be given to you.

Someone has to give you the right to 'whatever' - if you are entitled to something - someone has to give it to you.

Answer the question:

If you are not entitled to life, and I can break your defenses and kill you to get your possessions, it is morally ok?
If not, why?

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PornoDoggy

Where did you get these figures? I mean, I suspect from an orifice within your body, but I sure would like to see the basis for that information.

Oh My - the dog got lose....

Actually - at one point in the 70's I WAS in what was defined as the working poor....

Had two kids then - Was the assistant manager of a Shoney's.

So - Sorry pup - you know not of what you speak...
We were doing fine and had no idea we were "poor".

It's all about money - the more "poor" your state can claim, the more federal welfare dollars they get - don't be fooled.

CDSmith · 02-24-2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
You made your ignorance quite clear with saying that you believe that everyone who doesn't have a job doesn't want one.

I know plenty of people that love or would love nothing better than to suck the tit of society while doing nothing but couch. Plenty.

I also know a few people that are out of work at least once a year or more, that refuse to take a job that is beneath them. One guy works as a mechanic's helper/machinist for half the year at most, makes barely enough to feed his family, then prefers to suck Unemployment Insurance rather than go pump gas or stock shelves.

As a counter example, I watched my dad many years ago..... he was working for the CBC in a well-paid job on a camera crew. Their union went on strike back in the 70's, and they walked the picket line for 5 months straight. I watched my dad take a job as a courier driver, work that job to it's fullest, and guess what?.... that's right, folks, he and his family survived without welfare, without going hungry, without asking the government to bilk the rich to give to the poor poor poor.

No crying please.

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

Answer the question:

If you are not entitled to life, and I can break your defenses and kill you to get your possessions, it is morally ok?
If not, why?

Now you are confusing being CIVILIZED to getting an ENTITLEMENT or having a RIGHT.

We are (somewhat) civilized because we agreed to be - not because we were entitled to it - or because it was a right.

You're really having a hard time with this aren't you?

PornoDoggy · 02-24-2003, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

Oh My - the dog got lose....

Actually - at one point in the 70's I WAS in what was defined as the working poor....

Had two kids then - Was the assistant manager of a Shoney's.

So - Sorry pup - you know not of what you speak...
We were doing fine and had no idea we were "poor".

It's all about money - the more "poor" your state can claim, the more federal welfare dollars they get - don't be fooled.

I've been working poor myself. I haven't always lived in the palatial one-bedroom aparment I now occupy, so I do have an idea of what I speak.

I asked you if you had a source for the information you posted, that's all - the 1.5 cars, the cell phone, yada-yada-yada. Where did you get that?

SquarePants · 02-24-2003, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
Okay, I'll play along here. Squarebob, what makes you think that many webmasters aren't skilled in other areas? I can only speak for myself, but the fact is --- I did not go the college route. I graduated high school, worked at shit jobs for a few years, then went back to school and took electronics for a year, after which I became........ a security officer in a large hospital. I then took first aid and health care training and eventually became a health care worker in that hospital, and my wage more than doubled.

I worked the trades for years on the side. I eventually bought some rental property, and have never had to hire a handyman other than specialty jobs. I think I know how to clear a drain or dig an outhouse for that matter. I'm also quite sure that among so many skilled people there would be some ability to cooperate and get things done collectively. Imagine 50 pure capitalists all working together...

Knoble Idea, but as humans we are all prone to being lazy, again my devils advocate point is that someone is not going to feel like picking up a shovel, may be below him, and then you may have to do 2 jobs because of the other guys refusal.

I have construction trade skills myself, don't want to use them anymore but, I don't disagree that you 50 could be all skilled in other areas, God I hope so, would suck having 50 porn webmasters around, would get pretty boring

, but again you are back to the community doing it, I equate that to a simple tax system. So the statement of no taxes can't hold true.

Libertine · 02-24-2003, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
I know plenty of people that love or would love nothing better than to suck the tit of society while doing nothing but couch. Plenty.

I also know a few people that are out of work at least once a year or more, that refuse to take a job that is beneath them. One guy works as a mechanic's helper/machinist for half the year at most, makes barely enough to feed his family, then prefers to suck Unemployment Insurance rather than go pump gas or stock shelves.

As a counter example, I watched my dad many years ago..... he was working for the CBC in a well-paid job on a camera crew. Their union went on strike back in the 70's, and they walked the picket line for 5 months straight. I watched my dad take a job as a courier driver, work that job to it's fullest, and guess what?.... that's right, folks, he and his family survived without welfare, without going hungry, without asking the government to bilk the rich to give to the poor poor poor.

No crying please.

Well, I know many people that have been looking for work for quite some time. Yes, they even applied at McDonalds - no luck. Watched them try a whole bunch of different companies. They were considered too old, too young, overqualified, underqualified, etc. I'm talking about IT professionals with a university degree applying at McDonalds and Burger King here.

Libertine · 02-24-2003, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

Now you are confusing being CIVILIZED to getting an ENTITLEMENT or having a RIGHT.

We are (somewhat) civilized because we agreed to be - not because we were entitled to it - or because it was a right.

So, if I kill you, that's only uncivilized, and not wrong?

FATPad · 02-24-2003, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

I am assigning the job to our duly elected officials (the government-city, county, state, federal) and when I don't like what my duly elected official is doing to represent me that duly elected official will not get my vote next time around. In case you hadn't noticed that is our system.

Hire six new workers at what wage? The minimum wage which is actually worth less than it was thirty years ago. "Man lives by more than bread alone".

Hiring six new workers at minimum wage is a lot better than not hiring anyone at any wage because some beauracratic buttmunch is holding your money in the form of higher taxes.

Work first, then you're entitled to help. That's how it should be.

Sit around and cry that you don't have rich parents and think yourself above working a menial job to get started, and starve for all I care.

CDSmith · 02-24-2003, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SquarePants

Knoble Idea, but as humans we are all prone to being lazy, again my devils advocate point is that someone is not going to feel like picking up a shovel, may be below him, and then you may have to do 2 jobs because of the other guys refusal.

I have construction trade skills myself, don't want to use them anymore but, I don't disagree that you 50 could be all skilled in other areas, God I hope so, would suck having 50 porn webmasters around, would get pretty boring , but again you are back to the community doing it, I equate that to a simple tax system. So the statement of no taxes can't hold true.

Huge difference between pooling some of each person's resources willingly and having it extracted from you forcibly every paycheque.

And when 50 people can come up with 2-3 million dollars collectively, you can actually afford to pay nearby companies to come and service your community when needed. I said 50 people x $50k each, but what makes anyone think that $50k is all each person has? What about ongoing earnings of each person? No reason to assume that everyone wouldn't be continuing to earn money as usual, because this internet business is quite portable, in that no matter where I live, my sites still exist as they are.

Sure there would have to be plans, agreements and compromises, but we're talking about a tropical island, not a shithole trailerpark. If it wouldn't be a labour of love for everyone, then certain people simply wouldn't belong there.

CDSmith · 02-24-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Well, I know many people that have been looking for work for quite some time. Yes, they even applied at McDonalds - no luck. Watched them try a whole bunch of different companies. They were considered too old, too young, overqualified, underqualified, etc. I'm talking about IT professionals with a university degree applying at McDonalds and Burger King here.

Yes, there are those examples too. However, IT professionals also have the ability to start something of their own. They probably own a computer, and if so there is nothing stopping them from starting their own business online, for example. Too many people have "job" mentality, that the only way to earn a living is to work for somebody else.

The opportunity for people to live comfortably and become successful is there for them, they just have to be motivated enough to go after the dream. Or stay broke. Life is a choice.

DavePlays · 02-24-2003, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

So, if I kill you, that's only uncivilized, and not wrong?

What an ass - it's gone from explaining what 'entitlement' means to you - then the difference between an 'entitlement' and a 'right'.

Then I had to explain that simply acting 'civilized' was a 'choice' that has nothing to do with being 'entitled' to it.

NOW - I have to clearify what "right" (or 'wrong') means - and how it differs in relation to the other words?

You expect an awful lot out of me -

02-24-2003, 10:25 AM	#103
theking Nice Kitty Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The good old USA!!! Posts: 21,053	The working poor do work hard and they do not have disposable income, which it is my understanding constitutes the majority of the poor in the USA. Depending upon which study one relies upon the current minimum wage of today would have to be between $8.00-$10.50 per hour to be equivilent to the minimum wage of years past and of course the minimum wage has never really been a livable wage. __________________ When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me! FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

02-24-2003, 10:46 AM	#108
theking Nice Kitty Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The good old USA!!! Posts: 21,053	As for the rich paying taxes... I will use three of my friends for example. Two are worth several millions of dollars each They are self made, as they came from working class families and they both were working class, but the companies that they worked for provided an income that left them with a certain amount of disposable money and they invested wisely in one thing or another and grew their wealth. The other friend is a doctor (general practice). He is not worth the several million that the other two friends are. He spends his money about as fast as it comes in on one thing or another. He pays taxes on about $300,000.00 per year. He pays substantially more personal income tax then the two millionaire friends do because of the way the two millionaire friends have their income structured (neither use creative accounting other that what is legal). __________________ When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me! FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

02-24-2003, 10:55 AM	#110
theking Nice Kitty Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The good old USA!!! Posts: 21,053	Taxes and tax laws have changed since the days of Howard Hughe (spelling) but as some may recall he was a billionaire and according to a book that I just recently read written by Noah Dietriech he paid personal income tax on $50,000.00 per year. __________________ When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me! FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

02-24-2003, 11:21 AM	#114
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	Whatever people. Fact is, well, I have two points to offer at this time. 1) Everyone has or should have some basic rights, yes. No need to stretch anyone's meaning to severely warped levels guys, no one is saying that people should be able to kill one another freely. But one of those basic rights is to be resourceful, to find other ways of earning income (Other than working for min. wage), the right to work oneself out of poverty. 2) There are people that came from the lower income brackets that have actually done quite well for themselves. Take the people who have no rich parents to send them to college, but they get a job bartending or bussing tables and they pay their tuition and eventually earn their degree and GET that higher paying job. Or what about a guy like me who began working for LESS than minimum wage back in the early 80's.... a thing that heppens when one works for family sometimes........ then worked for minimum wage for 4 years, after which I worked in the health care field for 15 years. During that time I tried several other ventures, everything from painting houses on the side to providing security for large outdoor rock festivals. I also ran a network marketing business out of my home, and it was that business that taught me to WORK SMARTER, not harder. That is one of the fundamental reasons why I chose to start websites. If run properly, websites can do much of the work FOR you. Does a website not earn you money while you sleep? yes, it does. SO.... my second point is that everyone in a free society is free to get off their fat fucking brokeass hamhock-draggin-asses and go find a way to get out of the rut they're in. Everyone has the right to do that. What they do NOT have the right to do (except under a communist flag) is to tell me that because I am now more successful that I have to part with a larger share of my earnings to support those that refuse to excersise the right I just mentioned. I'm all for helping other motivated people, but there are too many crapsuckers out there who just want to do the minimum and get paid the maximum. Pure socialism sucks. It takes away the drive to succeed, because what's the point in succeeding? Your success is just taken away and re-distributed to those that didn't earn it. Let's be a country of sheep. Weeeee. __________________ *Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!* ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!! Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634

02-24-2003, 10:18 AM	#101
AaronM Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ┌∩┐ ◣_◢ ┌∩┐ Posts: 46,909	100 BIATCH!