Natural Gas Powered Cars

[slapass]

With natural gas so cheap in the US, why don't we do this? Brazil runs all of their taxis and a lot of their cars on natufal gas. The conversion kit is a few thousand dollars and takes about a day or so. If the technology is all there and proven, why not just do it?

[slapass]

"As of December 2009, the U.S. had a fleet of 114,270 compressed natural gas (CNG) vehicles, 147,030 vehicles running on liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), and 3,176 vehicles running on liquefied natural gas (LNG).[4]"

"As of 2009 Argentina had 1,807,186 NGV's with 1,851 refueling stations across the nation,[2] or 15% of all vehicles;[32] and Brazil had 1,632,101 vehicles and 1,704 refueling stations,[2] with a higher concentration in the cities of Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.[9][32]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_vehicle

[shima]

Well one of the reasons is because the conversion is too expensive to pay off if you don't drive much. Secondly in the colder climate regions you'd still have to crank your engine on gasoline, let it heat up a bit, and then switch to natural gas. It has its complications I think.

Personally I drive a diesel powered car.

[seeandsee]

I am using LPG in my cars from 2006 It's made me nice chunk of savings! And making car run on it costs from 250 eur to few k eur

[Black All Through]

LPG in Europe is well distributed, my dad installed it on his Alfa, it runs well and at half the price of petrol. The only thing it's against the law to park it in a condo or underground parking lot. A lot of shopping centers and malls wont let you park either.

[slapass]

LPG in Europe is well distributed, my dad installed it on his Alfa, it runs well and at half the price of petrol. The only thing it's against the law to park it in a condo or underground parking lot. A lot of shopping centers and malls wont let you park either.

In Brazil they can go anywhere. Doesn't seem to be an issue.

Natural gas is about 1/6 as expensive in the states. We are burning it off rather then capture it in some places as it is too expensive to capture.

[SpeedoDave]

When I lived in Australia I ran my truck on LPG - big saving on gas but a slight loss in power although well worth the sacrifice.

I think the main problem in the US is there isn't enough places to fill up right now - I know there are none up here in the mountains of Colorado.

Dave

[Barry-xlovecam]

Because it would be bad for the gasoline station business?

[slapass]

Because it would be bad for the gasoline station business?

Not sure what they do in other places but in Brazil, you fill up at the gas station. So it is the same thing. I have not seen do it yourself so maybe that is the big thing?

[RandyRandy]

The converted all the taxis in Bogota, Colombia to natural gas as well. You can convert a car there for $500. A taxi can go about 60 miles/100 kilometers at a time, which means they fill up 3 times a day - but it's 1/5 of the price of gas. And it's done right at the gas station. It 's at the gas station here in the States as well, though not as popular. The BP station at Newark Airport has one, right next to the gas pumps.

[femdomdestiny]

With natural gas so cheap in the US, why don't we do this? Brazil runs all of their taxis and a lot of their cars on natufal gas. The conversion kit is a few thousand dollars and takes about a day or so. If the technology is all there and proven, why not just do it?

You don't have to, as long as you have fleet of airplane carriers and easily take other's oil and resources.

On the other hand, it is normal thing in Europe for many decades. I also run LPG system,it is cheaper to drive 45% up to 50%. It is better for engine and environment (when you change oil it looks same like when it was poured first time ). With modern LPG systems, I can barely feel difference in power and it depends on setting. You can set it to spend even less but will go worse. I think that in Russia there is big number of cars with this, even if they have cheap gas ( I am not sure actually).

[TheSquealer]

I think its more widely used in the US than you realize from public transportation to taxis to companies that have large fleets.

[RandyRandy]

I think its more widely used in the US than you realize from public transportation to taxis to companies that have large fleets.

That's exactly right. For example, this vehicle, the VPG MV-1, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV-1 , which most people have never heard of, is gaining traction in the fleet and taxi industry. In NYC, the largest contractor for Access-a-Ride, which provides transportation to those who can't use MTA buses or subways, are phasing in the VPG MV-1, replacing the old Ford Crown Vic's and even the oversized vans with wheelchair-lift, because the MV-1 has a wheelchair ramp. The range on compressed gas is 250 miles and it's nice to see this in a quality-built American car - they're built on the old Hummer 2 line in Indiana.

[slapass]

I think its more widely used in the US than you realize from public transportation to taxis to companies that have large fleets.

"Natural gas powers about 112,000 vehicles in the United States and roughly 14.8 million vehicles worldwide."

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/natural_gas.html

I know the cheap Nat Gas is a new thing but man we should be all over this.

[slapass]

Based on their widget it is about 40% cheaper right now. That is huge -

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/natural_gas.html

And we wouldn't need to import it. We really could use some people in govt with a clue.

[TrashyGirl]

I think its more widely used in the US than you realize from public transportation to taxis to companies that have large fleets.

The taxi that was in the wrong place at the wrong time in the Las Vegas "Gun Battle" "Shoot Out" was running on LPG acc. to the news story I read, which is why it exploded and burned. LPG is ok when you're running, but get into an accident and you're toast.

Vegas Gun Battle thread: http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1100732

[slapass]

Great that might end the discussion right there. That sucks as it is cheaper and domestic.

[femdomdestiny]

The taxi that was in the wrong place at the wrong time in the Las Vegas "Gun Battle" "Shoot Out" was running on LPG acc. to the news story I read, which is why it exploded and burned. LPG is ok when you're running, but get into an accident and you're toast.

Vegas Gun Battle thread: http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1100732

that is completely not true.Absolute false statement. It is more reliable then gas tanks in case of accidents.When you install it (at least here in europe) there are tests that you need to pass.

[atom]

In Minneapolis a lot of the city buses and the garbage trucks run on natural gas

[slapass]

But why are we not able to create infrastructure to let people run cars on it. I would save 40% on gasoline bill by doing it. That is huge. If it cost less then 1k to do it then most of us who could, would. Then the US consumer would get a big boost. etc..

[Antonio]

That conversion kit over here sells from $300 for the cheapest one and from what I read the difference b/n the cheaper and the more expensive ones is not so much in the consumption, but rather in the car performance. If you go for the cheaper options, your car will have less torque (power?), which if you drive mostly in the city won't really make that much of a difference. I've never driven a car on NG in my life, but that's what I read on one of the local forums... also, I think every single taxi here uses natural gas.

[brassmonkey]

im going to convert a beetle my uncle gave me. there's a mini station near my house.

[NETbilling]

Big oil keeps it from happening here

[Antonio]

im going to convert a beetle my uncle gave me. there's a mini station near my house.

Probably won't work, the engine is in the back, right? Then you will have to place that gas bottle thingy in the front and that's probably not allowed ... just guiessing here, but in case of a head-on collision, I wouldn't want any gas bottles caught in the middle.

[CurrentlySober]

i like natural gas...

[crockett]

I'm pretty sure UPS fuels it's trucks by natural gas. That or Fedex, but I'm pretty certain one of them does.

Usually it's used by lager corporations that have fleets of trucks that are used locally. This way they can have their own fueling set up at their location.

It is used here in the US and some people do conversions but it's just like electric cars being harder for the average Joe to use them due to not being as practical.

[Pronstar]

It is cheaper and it is environmental friendlier so I don't really get it why they wouldn't let them park udnerground as someone said earlier.

[femdomdestiny]

It is cheaper and it is environmental friendlier so I don't really get it why they wouldn't let them park udnerground as someone said earlier.

Precaution. If a gas leak somewhere, settles on the bottom because it is heavier than air and if someone throws a cigarette , there is a risk that the concentration of gas can go on fire This is a theoretical situation and so far I have never heard that somewhere is forbidden to park in garage, but these are likely regulations of some states and they vary from country to country.

Also, LPG doesn't have a smell at all, but there is artificial addition , so you can feel it if it is leaking . If something is leaking without smell like gasoline,it can be dangerous. Anyway I think Italians have best equipement for this. It costs from $300 for cheaper options and if you have turbo charged engine or more cylinders price will go up. (but not much). It is much better for engine then gasoline and it is better for environment . Not to mention costs. Actually, this not something new. Some of first car 100 years ago used this fuel but back in those days there was limit with technology that wasn't safe enough to storage gas. Gas itself is in liquid state and under temperature of engine it become gas that was burned inside engine.

I was using cheaper and advanced system (that I have now on car with computer diagnostics and auto adaption) and there is no so much difference if you ask me ,when we talk about power. Not all car can use old vacuum system,mostly carburateur cars use it. What I like is that you can easily tune things up and make stronger fuel mixture if you want.If you live in cold country, you will have to make engine warm enough before transfering to LPG. You can set temperature, but average is 86 (F) which means few minutes of running on gasoline. You won't feel difference or when it is transfered, it is same and completely automatic.

I don't know how much natural gas is there in US, and if it is available, only reason that I can see not to use it is because of oil companies.

[mineistaken]

LPG in Europe is well distributed, my dad installed it on his Alfa, it runs well and at half the price of petrol. The only thing it's against the law to park it in a condo or underground parking lot. A lot of shopping centers and malls wont let you park either.

Shit, shopping malls inspect every car that goes in? Or do they need to have some stickers to be identified?
Its your country specific law though.

[diablom]

I use newest LPG technology on my car. It is cheapier and I do not feel any difference in power. I like saving my money and nature

[slapass]

The thing is - this is not new. It is used all over the world. Right now natural gas is super cheap in the US. Other places have implemented it so there is no need for new tech or new ideas on how to distibute etc. Ohers are doing it so we could just copy.

http://gailtheactuary.files.wordpres...rope-japan.png

[slapass]

I use newest LPG technology on my car. It is cheapier and I do not feel any difference in power. I like saving my money and nature

Where are you?

[2MuchMark]

Lots of cars and buses already run on natural gas, but the conversion is pricey. It make more sense to use Natrual gas for mass transit, or when you have fleets of cars. If you buy tens of thousands of gallons of gas a month, there are significant savings buying the equivalent amount of energy in natural gas instead of gas.

[slapass]

Lots of cars and buses already run on natural gas, but the conversion is pricey. It make more sense to use Natrual gas for mass transit, or when you have fleets of cars. If you buy tens of thousands of gallons of gas a month, there are significant savings buying the equivalent amount of energy in natural gas instead of gas.

It depends on your current engine. Most cars outside the US only require $1k to make the conversion. I think this is true of flex fuel cars so Chevrolets and some others are ready.

[shimmy2]

I'm pretty sure UPS fuels it's trucks by natural gas. That or Fedex, but I'm pretty certain one of them does.

so they can pocket the "fuel surcharge" they take on to every package. by the way here in the islands i would say 70% or more the cars on the road run on propane. "real" gas here is almost $6/gallon which makes no sense cause they get it free from venezuela in exchange for rice and whatnot. the kit here is about $200 which is basically a gas tank, line, and switch for you to toggle between propane and regular gas. They both run the same on the highway but as stated above torque is reduced and it may sputter a bit in stop and go traffic

[slapass]

so they can pocket the "fuel surcharge" they take on to every package. by the way here in the islands i would say 70% or more the cars on the road run on propane. "real" gas here is almost $6/gallon which makes no sense cause they get it free from venezuela in exchange for rice and whatnot. the kit here is about $200 which is basically a gas tank, line, and switch for you to toggle between propane and regular gas. They both run the same on the highway but as stated above torque is reduced and it may sputter a bit in stop and go traffic

I used to run a truck on propane and it would freeze up once in a while. CNG doesn't seem to have this issue. Also isn't propane pretty spendy?