i believe in god (no, i dont!) ... zeus, odin, thor, loki, gizmo, spiderman

[Overload]

all that religious stuff gives me goosebumps ... of anger ... people bend to some imaginary psychopath and give up their mental and spiritual freedom to her/him ... i just dont get it!? what is in it for the "FREE MIND"??? screw that crap --- i fQQking hate religion ... it brings nothing but anger, hatred and violence upon mankind ... why would an INTELLIGENT individual with an inspired mind bow to such crap? i just dont get it ... i remember a caller who talked to the atheist channel in austin ...

atheist: would you kill your children
caller: no way! that is just plain wrong!
atheist: but, if GOD told ya to kill yer chilldren - would you?
caller: YES!

so much to religion and moral ... FUCK religion ... and wipe it from this planet

[deltav]

I kinda agree, but angry and/or smug atheists are pretty annoying too.

[galleryseek]

You know what's just as logically inconsistent? Statism (the belief in the necessity of government). And it's really funny when you get an Atheist Statist (known as a Statheist). They fail to recognize that their belief in countries, nationalism, patriotism, are all just imaginary bullshit brought on by the branding from the ruling classes to keep their tax cattle in check; in the case of US the branding is brought on by the plutocracy in which we live.

I've progressed from a Christian (because my parents were) to agnostic, to an atheist. And from a republican (because my parents were), to a small-government, constitutionalist minarchist, to an anarchist (anarcho-capitalist/voluntaryist)

Two (A)'s for me, not exactly the most popular affiliations, but there's something prideful in finally having unplugged the two matrix-like cords from my neck.

[SilentKnight]

Science flies us into space.

Religion flies us into buildings.

[Overload]

well, i am going to an atheist rock club every weekend ... and guess what? i have never in my live met such beautiful people ... there are handycapped people frequenting the club - and? each and every fucking guest helps them! to get outta their wheely and on a chair or whatever; heck, there are extremely obese people - and yet no word of refusal ... it is not a pool of outcasts, but IF you are different from the norm -- no-one cares a PISS! believers have a hard stand there tho ... there are many very literate and highly eductated people talking about quantum physics and extremely "over the head" science stuff - and almost all will tear yer biblical crap apart ... but, in a fairly gentle, science based way (the best way to tear into someones erratic believes) ... and yet, simple (not meant in a degrading way) minds are welcome (as long as they stick to ethics and dont cause any trouble - hehe, the host is almost 2 meters tall and far from skinny - if you cause trouble = free flight *literally!* out ... best throw so far was almost 10 feet - for swinging his fist inside the club!) ... funny enuff, two weeks ago there was a "contact officer" in the club asking why - now, let this melt on yer tongue - "this club is open for 2 years now, how come we (the police) never had to move in here?" ... shit, it is the most peaceful club in the whole area ... why? people care a piss about god, dont mind different opinions and fight with their sharpest sword - their tongue ... and - the music does the rest ... HEAVY METAL ... banging your head (to the sound or to some heavy thoughts) seems to cool most folks temper ... a hard to describe bar i know, but i luv it :D

[Overload]

Science flies us into space.

Religion flies us into buildings.

those few words are brilliant!!!

lemme reply with this:

i dont know if faith can move mountains - but i have seen what it does to skyscapers (with 9/11 just passed u know what i mean)

[galleryseek]

Overload, you live up to your name with your paragraph and sentence formation.

[Jel]

all that religious stuff gives me goosebumps ... of anger ... people bend to some imaginary psychopath and give up their mental and spiritual freedom to her/him ... i just dont get it!? what is in it for the "FREE MIND"??? screw that crap --- i fQQking hate religion ... it brings nothing but anger, hatred and violence upon mankind ... why would an INTELLIGENT individual with an inspired mind bow to such crap? i just dont get it ... i remember a caller who talked to the atheist channel in austin ...

atheist: would you kill your children
caller: no way! that is just plain wrong!
atheist: but, if GOD told ya to kill yer chilldren - would you?
caller: YES!

so much to religion and moral ... FUCK religion ... and wipe it from this planet

You think all religious people are like that? You think religion brings *nothing* but anger, hatred, and violence? Religious zealots (or the ones who would kill their kids if 'god' 'told them to') are a tiny, tiny minority of the peaceful, loving ones, just like hateful, fear-mongering, angry non-religious people are but a tiny fraction of those who aren't religious.

I honestly can't understand how people don't get that. People so overtly anti-religion wind me up just as much, and in fact probably more, than overtly religious fanatics

[TheSenator]

Some one has been on REDDIT.

[SilentKnight]

those few words are brilliant!!!

lemme reply with this:

i dont know if faith can move mountains - but i have seen what it does to skyscapers (with 9/11 just passed u know what i mean)

Indeed.

Another fave quote goes, "To become a religion it is only necessary for a superstition to enslave a philosophy."

[galleryseek]

You think all religious people are like that? You think religion brings *nothing* but anger, hatred, and violence? Religious zealots (or the ones who would kill their kids if 'god' 'told them to') are a tiny, tiny minority of the peaceful, loving ones, just like hateful, fear-mongering, angry non-religious people are but a tiny fraction of those who aren't religious.

I honestly can't understand how people don't get that. People so overtly anti-religion wind me up just as much, and in fact probably more, than overtly religious fanatics

Christianity is generally touted as being one of the most peaceful religions, at least when compared with the muslim extremists. BUT, if we look at the teachings in the bible, we find that God is jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

I'm a big believer in the NAP (Non-Aggression Principle, which is the belief that it's wrong to initiate force or the threat thereof against a person or their property), and when parents attempt to teach Christianity to children in a consistent way, it breaks that NAP with the whole "You must accept me, otherwise you burn in hell."

Holding beliefs that which you cannot substantiate is a very dangerous, slippery slope. We saw that on 9-11. We see that with homophobia, and sex itself.

[Overload]

You think all religious people are like that? You think religion brings *nothing* but anger, hatred, and violence? Religious zealots (or the ones who would kill their kids if 'god' 'told them to') are a tiny, tiny minority of the peaceful, loving ones, just like hateful, fear-mongering, angry non-religious people are but a tiny fraction of those who aren't religious.

I honestly can't understand how people don't get that. People so overtly anti-religion wind me up just as much, and in fact probably more, than overtly religious fanatics

no, not all, but the deeply religious ones are nothing but fucking ugly-minded ... and lost ... a buddy of me - i know him for over 30 years (knew, i stopped visiting him) was doing drugs and was flying high regarding intelligence ... until he found god ... where do i see him now? he is stuck in religious dogmas, wants disbelievers to rot in hell, he has a crazy professor hairdo and refuses to leave his home ... heck, one day he said he wants to get rid of his TV because of all the misleading news ... gee-zuz!!! religion poisons everything ... religion means stagnation and i can in no way support it - i oppose it where ever i can and try to shed some real info ...

[deltav]

well, i am going to an atheist rock club every weekend ... and guess what? i have never in my live met such beautiful people ... there are handycapped people frequenting the club - and? each and every fucking guest helps them! to get outta their wheely and on a chair or whatever; heck, there are extremely obese people - and yet no word of refusal ... it is not a pool of outcasts, but IF you are different from the norm -- no-one cares a PISS! believers have a hard stand there tho ... there are many very literate and highly eductated people talking about quantum physics and extremely "over the head" science stuff - and almost all will tear yer biblical crap apart ... but, in a fairly gentle, science based way (the best way to tear into someones erratic believes) ... and yet, simple (not meant in a degrading way) minds are welcome (as long as they stick to ethics and dont cause any trouble - hehe, the host is almost 2 meters tall and far from skinny - if you cause trouble = free flight *literally!* out ... best throw so far was almost 10 feet - for swinging his fist inside the club!) ... funny enuff, two weeks ago there was a "contact officer" in the club asking why - now, let this melt on yer tongue - "this club is open for 2 years now, how come we (the police) never had to move in here?" ... shit, it is the most peaceful club in the whole area ... why? people care a piss about god, dont mind different opinions and fight with their sharpest sword - their tongue ... and - the music does the rest ... HEAVY METAL ... banging your head (to the sound or to some heavy thoughts) seems to cool most folks temper ... a hard to describe bar i know, but i luv it :D

Ummm.... okay?

[Overload]

my biggest problem is ... it is NOT a religion! those old books are just and only OLD STORIES - some made up, some with a background that can be proven historically, even scientifically ... but hey, 2000 year old codes of conduct ARE outdated and should be discarded ... at leat by those using their common sense ...

it is NOT right to stone people to death, nor is it ok to chop someones hand off for comitting theft ... IT SIMPLY AINT RIGHT!!!

[SilentKnight]

I honestly can't understand how people don't get that. People so overtly anti-religion wind me up just as much, and in fact probably more, than overtly religious fanatics

A lot has to do with one's personal experiences with religion.

[Overload]

I'm a big believer in the NAP (Non-Aggression Principle, which is the belief that it's wrong to initiate force or the threat thereof against a person or their property), and when parents attempt to teach Christianity to children in a consistent way, it breaks that NAP with the whole "You must accept me, otherwise you burn in hell."

apos for using this term, but AMEN! you just spilled some from the bottom of my heart! i never understood the principle of violence ... it gets ya no-where ... it does not proof yer point, nor does it carry any message but - i am too dumb to word my opinion

[Jel]

Christianity is generally touted as being one of the most peaceful religions, at least when compared with the muslim extremists. BUT, if we look at the teachings in the bible, we find that God is jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

I'm a big believer in the NAP (Non-Aggression Principle, which is the belief that it's wrong to initiate force or the threat thereof against a person or their property), and when parents attempt to teach Christianity to children in a consistent way, it breaks that NAP with the whole "You must accept me, otherwise you burn in hell."

Holding beliefs that which you cannot substantiate is a very dangerous, slippery slope. We saw that on 9-11. We see that with homophobia, and sex itself.

who gives a fuck how some people interpret the bible and god? your example of 'god' being jealous, unjust, blahblah is just as ridiculous (to me) as those who say 'god' is kind, loving, blahblah. You say you're an atheist, yet reference the bible (which as an atheist it should hold zero value for you) to describe a 'god' that you don't believe exists in the first place.

Those who do believe in a religious god can do wtf they like lol, just like those who don't can, just like every human on the planet can. Like you I was brought up very religiously, until I fucked all that off at about age 13, but due to my parents' beliefs, know many many churchgoers, none of whom would hurt a fly. Sure, I think their beliefs are daft to a certain extent, but who am I to say they shouldn't have them?

I was very anti-religion myself until a couple of years ago, and my life's much easier now I don't carry an 'us versus them' mentality around religious people. Not saying you do, just saying in general while I'm posting this lol.

[Jel]

no, not all, but the deeply religious ones are nothing but fucking ugly-minded ... and lost ... a buddy of me - i know him for over 30 years (knew, i stopped visiting him) was doing drugs and was flying high regarding intelligence ... until he found god ... where do i see him now? he is stuck in religious dogmas, wants disbelievers to rot in hell, he has a crazy professor hairdo and refuses to leave his home ... heck, one day he said he wants to get rid of his TV because of all the misleading news ... gee-zuz!!! religion poisons everything ... religion means stagnation and i can in no way support it - i oppose it where ever i can and try to shed some real info ...

So you're doing what he does to non-believers, to all believers because of a certain type of believer. Got it

ps I'm sure all those years of drugs have nothing to do with how fucked up he is now

[Jel]

A lot has to do with one's personal experiences with religion.

yeah I can dig that actually, totally

[Overload]

So you're doing what he does to non-believers, to all believers because of a certain type of believer. Got it

ps I'm sure all those years of drugs have nothing to do with how fucked up he is now

dude, i am into drugs - but on a scientific way - i am a writer ... do you keep track of the medical benefits of psilocybin, LSD and MJ? hmm? i seriously doubt it ... and plz re-read my post ... he turned into a lunatic AFTER STOPPING drugs ... and allowing yahwe's witnesses into his home ... what do ya think washed his brain?

[ilnjscb]

Thor makes a lot of sense, though.

[Overload]

well, documentaries i'd recommend to each and any believer -->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iZ1-csQFUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqzgYRBlslw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGhQmNZhlqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag0U65NkxrI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYil-x1wAtE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6HWbs11zdU

but, the biggest problem is ... believers dont seek knowledge,
they stick with their believes - well, far too many do ... and
never expand their knowledge ... i have seen it far too many times

sigh

[Jel]

dude, i am into drugs - but on a scientific way - i am a writer ... do you keep track of the medical benefits of psilocybin, LSD and MJ? hmm? i seriously doubt it ... and plz re-read my post ... he turned into a lunatic AFTER STOPPING drugs ... and allowing yahwe's witnesses into his home ... what do ya think washed his brain?

So your drug-addled I mean expanded mind and heightened intelligence believes that the problem your friend has is that he stopped taking drugs, and not that his brain had an overdose of sanity & reality once he stopped, and reacted in a way that *shock and surprise* wasn't tip-top? Got it

I've seen one fuck of a lot of mental destruction due to drugs, and have yet to meet a single lsd user who I'd class as having benfitted from long term use of it. Of course, much like any addict/alkie, when you're in it, it all seems fine, such is the paradox of living in a chemically induced reality

[Jel]

well, documentaries i'd recommend to each and any believer -->
....

but, the biggest problem is ... believers dont seek knowledge,
they stick with their believes - well, far too many do ... and
never expand their knowledge ... i have seen it far too many times

sigh

Out of curiosity, how many religious people do you think there are here? I'll go on the large side and say about 9. I also can't help wondering if over at some christian-related forum somewhere there's a guy posting threads and videos about how non-believers need to wake up.

[Overload]

So your drug-addled I mean expanded mind and heightened intelligence believes that the problem your friend has is that he stopped taking drugs, and not that his brain had an overdose of sanity & reality once he stopped, and reacted in a way that *shock and surprise* wasn't tip-top? Got it

I've seen one fuck of a lot of mental destruction due to drugs, and have yet to meet a single lsd user who I'd class as having benfitted from long term use of it. Of course, much like any addict/alkie, when you're in it, it all seems fine, such is the paradox of living in a chemically induced reality

dude, sorry, but you have no ear to the scientific part of drugs ... and i really doubt you have had any look at the studies run lately ... your opinion is solely based on hearsay and politically inked shit ...

http://www.zamnesia.com/blog-researc...-mushrooms-n73
http://www.zamnesia.com/blog-ayahuas...-addiction-n71
http://www.zamnesia.com/blog-lsd-101-an-overview-n51
http://www.zamnesia.com/blog-lsd-medicinal-or-not-n47
http://www.zamnesia.com/blog-psilocy...-a-history-n42
http://www.zamnesia.com/blog-lsd-eff...n-the-body-n39
http://www.zamnesia.com/blog-how-shr...e-drinking-n36
http://www.zamnesia.com/blog-shrooms...depression-n33
http://www.zamnesia.com/blog-psyched...d-altering-n30
http://www.zamnesia.com/blog-easing-...delic-drugs-n5

dont tell crap of things you have not read up upon ok? can we agree on that?

and hey --- marijunana has NO MEDICAL BENEFIT? yer into that as well? 20 states of the US have a different opinion already .. and the rest will follow soon ...

rest your crap and read up

[keysync]

Think how many people will lean more into religion because of the atheist statement the pope made recently.
They don't have to be "bat shit crazy religious" anymore to be in the club

[Overload]

So your drug-addled I mean expanded mind and heightened intelligence believes that the problem your friend has is that he stopped taking drugs, and not that his brain had an overdose of sanity & reality once he stopped, and reacted in a way that *shock and surprise* wasn't tip-top? Got it

I've seen one fuck of a lot of mental destruction due to drugs, and have yet to meet a single lsd user who I'd class as having benfitted from long term use of it. Of course, much like any addict/alkie, when you're in it, it all seems fine, such is the paradox of living in a chemically induced reality

if you ask me ... i will seek that long term study again ... actually LSD users ARE more content and satisfied and well-aware of anything imaginable, including their being and possible problems - more athan ppl who never took a mind-expanding drug ... might take me some time, but i have it filed somewhere ...

[Jel]

dude, sorry, but you have no ear to the scientific part of drugs ... and i really doubt you have had any look at the studies run lately ... your opinion is solely based on hearsay and politically inked shit ...

dont tell crap of things you have not read up upon ok? can we agree on that?

and hey --- marijunana has NO MEDICAL BENEFIT? yer into that as well? 20 states of the US have a different opinion already .. and the rest will follow soon ...

rest your crap and read up

lol yeah ok. solely based on hearsay, righto but wait, *some* studies say lsd is great - guess what, *some* studies say it isn't, how about that

and hey --- where did I say marijuana has NO MEDICAL BENEFIT? why did you even bring that up? It is about as relevant as moses parting the red sea.

the proof of how great lsd is for your brain is right here in this thread and your posts

[Jel]

if you ask me ... i will seek that long term study again ... actually LSD users ARE more content and satisfied and well-aware of anything imaginable, including their being and possible problems - more athan ppl who never took a mind-expanding drug ... might take me some time, but i have it filed somewhere ...

no, they're unaware of reality, which is very different than being content. I personally know around 12 long term lsd users off the top of my head who are - how can I put this delicately - I can't actually, so: they're basically mongs. Zero awareness of how useless they are, completely sure they are 100% sane, when all you need to do is talk to them for anything upwards of about 3 minutes to see they act like retarded kids. You're sane buddies will relate to what I'm saying, while you'll swear blind you're of a higher intelligence than most people on this board, if not the planet.

Have a great day anyway, carrying this conversation on would be like trying to reason with a 9 year old

[purecane]

if you read the bible you will see that god killed 2,038,344 people. however satan only killed 10. so, who do you pray to?????

[Jel]

if you read the bible you will see that god killed 2,038,344 people. however satan only killed 10. so, who do you pray to?????

nobody. you?

[Jel]

side note, I'm amazed someone went to the trouble of making that graphic. What's that going to do, convince all religious people to turn their back on religion? Some cunt actually did a body count of the bible? wtf lol, why on earth would anyone do that - to 'win' an internet argument about something they don't believe anyway, using the thing they don't believe in to prove their point that it's all a load of fairy tales? How does that logic work then?

I'm going to disprove your fairy tale, by using that fairy tale to back up my points! yeah!

[Thor]

if you read the bible you will see that god killed 2,038,344 people. however satan only killed 10. so, who do you pray to?????

still, if you look at what christians do today, its 98% good, all about helping and taking care of the poor etc.
And still you take some quotes from a 1500-2000 year old book to try and describe christianity today.

[Overload]

no, they're unaware of reality, which is very different than being content. I personally know around 12 long term lsd users off the top of my head who are - how can I put this delicately - I can't actually, so: they're basically mongs. Zero awareness of how useless they are, completely sure they are 100% sane, when all you need to do is talk to them for anything upwards of about 3 minutes to see they act like retarded kids. You're sane buddies will relate to what I'm saying, while you'll swear blind you're of a higher intelligence than most people on this board, if not the planet.

Have a great day anyway, carrying this conversation on would be like trying to reason with a 9 year old

well, show me ONE study/trial that shows mind-expanding drugs are bad for mental health (provided the experimentee has no latent disorder or predisposition) ... ???

***
So-called psychedelic drugs such as LSD, magic mushrooms and peyote are not linked to mental health problems

Psychedelics have been used by mankind for millenia. Common reasons for using psychedelics include mystical experiences, curiosity and introspection. According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), psychedelics have similar structures to natural neurotransmitters, the chemical messengers in the brain and temporarily interfere with the neurotransmitter action, which then leads to emotional swings and hallucinogenic "trips" that go on for hours. It is yet unknown how exactly psychedelics work, but is is known what they don't do. It is known they do not cause (physical) damage to the brain or other organs or birth defects or genetic damage or induce withdrawal symptoms, addiction or compulsive use.

And now a new research study out of Norway, which was published in the Aug. 19 issue of PLoS One, shows that psychedelic drugs such as LSD, magic mushrooms and peyote are not linked to mental health problems. Unexpected results because it was previously speculated that psychedelics might lead to mental health problems - those speculations were actually based on a small number of case reports and did not take into account the widespread use of psychedelics or rate of mental health problems in the general population, study co-author Teri Krebs said. Study author Pal-Orjan Johansen, a neuro-scientist at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology in Trondheim in Norway, said in a statement, that "After adjusting for other risk factors, lifetime or past year use of psilocybin, LSD, mescaline or peyote were not associated with a higher rate of receiving mental health treatment or encountering mental health problems."

For this new study, researchers the analyzed data of a drug use survey conducted between 2001 and 2004. 130,000 randomly chosen American respondents who took a drug use survey between 2001 and 2004, including 22,000 who had used a psychedelic drug at least once were asked about any mental health symptoms including psychological distress, anxiety disorders, psychosis and mood disorders and treatments that took place in the year prior to being surveyed. The results were nothing less but astonishing, because they only found links to mental health benefits. They did not find any association between the drugs and this range of mental health problems, but that users who had taken psilocybin, mescaline or LSD actually had lower rates of major psychological distress and were also less likely to receive outpatient mental health treatment, such as from a therapist or to take psychiatric prescription medications. They found no relation between lifetime use of psychedelics and any undesirable past year mental health conditions, including serious psychological distress, mental health treatment (either inpatient or outpatient or feeling the need of medication) or symptoms of panic disorder, major depressive episodes, mania, social phobia, agoraphobia, generalized anxiety disorder, PTSD or non-affective psychosis. Johansen and his co-researchers also mentioned that studies of people who used psychedelics hundreds of times in religious ceremonies provided no evidence of either mental health or social problems and that recent studies have failed to reveal any evidence of lasting harmful effects from psychedelics as well.

But, this is not the first study with such surprising results. Previous studies also showed that psychedelics may have protective benefits for mental health. Two studies released in Jan. 2012 showed that psilocybin-takers have a reduced risk for depression and a study in March 2012 showed that LSD may help serious alcoholics stay sober. Many of the experimentee reported they had gained a greater self-acceptance, openness and self-confidence and new appreciation for their problem and new motivation to address and battle it.

Dr. Mark Bolstridge, a researcher at the Center for Neuropsychopharmacology of the Imperial College of London in the U.K. who personally worked in mental health and trained in psychiatry said that he has not yet seen any individual suffering from significant mental health problems as a result of using psychedelics.

While these studies look more than encouraging these studies do not guarantee that people taking these drugs won't face mental health problems if they have a (latent) predisposition or condition. The question is how frequent and under what circumstances it happens.
***

soooo ... what?

[seeandsee]

God will never ask you to kill your children

[Mutt]

to 'win' an internet argument about something they don't believe anyway, using the thing they don't believe in to prove their point that it's all a load of fairy tales? How does that logic work then?

I'm going to disprove your fairy tale, by using that fairy tale to back up my points! yeah!

There is no way to prove to a true believer that God doesn't exist, nor can he prove to a non-believer that God does exist, it's a stalemate. But there's plenty in the Bible that can be challenged based on science and history, Creationists of course make fools of themselves when they attempt to defend the Bible scientifically. There's a world reknowned Jewish physicist who has gone to great lengths to *prove* that the universe and everything in it was created in 6 days. I cringe when I see them do this, it makes them look like fools. What they should say is 'God works in mysterious ways, we are not capable of fully understanding what God does'.

Religion is dying in well educated developed countries, those who still practice some of their Christian and Jewish rituals do so out of nostalgia and tradition, they don't intellectually believe the Bible stories. If you take out the supernatural from the scriptures there's a moral code of ethics and some philosophical comfort that serve people well. Of course you don't need religion or scriptures to teach you ethics or find comfort and hope. For those who can suspend their disbelief it's a nice thing - I value the truth too much to have faith in anything for which a rational argument can't be raised.

I used to think religions started mostly because people were afraid of death - I was wrong, ancient people weren't as neurotic about their mortality as we are, death was much more a fact of life, average lifespan was 30, women and babies died in childbirth all the time, natural disasters, constant wars, untreatable diseases/epidemics, rape, murder - they were more concerned what happened to them in the here and now. It wasn't until the Greek philosophers, Plato, who conceived the idea of the immortal soul, an afterlife, and the Jews picked up on it and the early Christians who were Jews fleshed it out in the story of Jesus Christ.

[Grapesoda]

well, documentaries i'd recommend to each and any believer -->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iZ1-csQFUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqzgYRBlslw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGhQmNZhlqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag0U65NkxrI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYil-x1wAtE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6HWbs11zdU

but, the biggest problem is ... believers dont seek knowledge,
they stick with their believes - well, far too many do ... and
never expand their knowledge ... i have seen it far too many times

sigh

most people don't seek knowledge.. only confirmation of their believes or their 'prejudice'...

[Grapesoda]

There is no way to prove to a true believer that God doesn't exist, nor can he prove to a non-believer that God does exist, it's a stalemate. But there's plenty in the Bible that can be challenged based on science and history, Creationists of course make fools of themselves when they attempt to defend the Bible scientifically. There's a world reknowned Jewish physicist who has gone to great lengths to *prove* that the universe and everything in it was created in 6 days. I cringe when I see them do this, it makes them look like fools. What they should say is 'God works in mysterious ways, we are not capable of fully understanding what God does'.

Religion is dying in well educated developed countries, those who still practice some of their Christian and Jewish rituals do so out of nostalgia and tradition, they don't intellectually believe the Bible stories. If you take out the supernatural from the scriptures there's a moral code of ethics and some philosophical comfort that serve people well. Of course you don't need religion or scriptures to teach you ethics or find comfort and hope. For those who can suspend their disbelief it's a nice thing - I value the truth too much to have faith in anything for which a rational argument can't be raised.

I used to think religions started mostly because people were afraid of death - I was wrong, ancient people weren't as neurotic about their mortality as we are, death was much more a fact of life, average lifespan was 30, women and babies died in childbirth all the time, natural disasters, constant wars, untreatable diseases/epidemics, rape, murder - they were more concerned what happened to them in the here and now. It wasn't until the Greek philosophers, Plato, who conceived the idea of the immortal soul, an afterlife, and the Jews picked up on it and the early Christians who were Jews fleshed it out in the story of Jesus Christ.

I'm gonna go with Billy Currington on this one...