The suffering and killing of people for personal gain...hmmm.

To me, suffering and killing are the consequences of war and I would hope never the reason for it. Personal gain, yes but even that descriptor is flawed for most wars are waged by a collective. Wrong? No. A last alternative? Yes.

When those predators kill other animals, they have a purpose doing so, which as you say, is to protect and advance their bloodline.

The important part of your statement is that most animal kill OTHER animals. They do not kill EACH OTHER. And those that do, still do it in order to protect and advance their bloodline

We humans do kill each other all the time, and we do it for the strangest reasons, too. many of which have nothing to do with advancing our bloodline.

BULLSHIT!

The first was a rhetorical question and the second was a regular question.

Learn English.

You guys are proving my point perfectly :thumbsup

So much hatred and ignorance in one person is rare. There is a civil conversation occuring around your posts, Joe. What are you angry at and why?

I have said neither. You are a pathetic liar. The only reference I have EVER made on this board to such is to send a sniper to Iraq to hit Saddam.

Sorry, but It's way too late to talk your way out of it, Joe.

I asked "Is war necessarily wrong? If so, why? Why is the suffering and killing of people for personal gain necessarily wrong? ... Labret, How would one view war through the glasses of "cultural relativism". Punkworld, anything interesting on the topic in that philosophy-filled big brain of yours?"

It was quite obvious that the question was a philosophical one and that in particular I was interested in the view of "cultural relativism" and any schools of philosophical thought that Punkword might be familar with since he was a philosphy major and has shown extensive knowledge of philosphy. An academic question. A philosphical question.

You replied with "I say we kill ten million Americans and talk about it some more... What do you think? .. you fucking idiot. You certainly thought war was wrong when 19 terrorists
killed over 3000 Americans didn't you? Or were you just humiliated that a raghead with 200
million to his name managed to humiliate your nation and turned your populace into a paraniod
pathetic mess of humanity? Tell me, are you a moron or do you just enjoy acting like one?
Fuck you and your empathy zone."

Do you hear the vile hatred spewing forth from you mouth .. the same hatred you accuse others
of? I have never said "Bomb Iraq!" or "Kill 'em all" and yet you say let's "kill ten million Americans and talk about it some more". You are the hate-monger that you accuse others of. Sad and pathetic.

In between all your bullshit ranting a conversation was already occuring between people that didn't go to school in a short yellow school bus. Not everyone is as blind as you.

Chimps will kill each other. One might even say "murder". They even battle in groups.

So Punkword, I'm interested in you continuing what you were saying yesterday. I was finding it very interesting. :-)

.. and still waiting for Labret to chime in.

So you're comparing America to a ruthless dictator who has killed over a million of his own people in 30 years?

DIE YOU FUCKING hahahaha

You're fucking delusional.

Well, chimps aren't that far away from humans, in terms of evolution, at least.

Just goes to show that the more sentient a species becomes, the more self destructive it is.

no it isn't...

This thread is getting pretty gay.

"Yada yada....Bla bla bla....Hmmm Har har, interesting point of view, mr. Wankerton. Hmm...Yess, yes."

Lets stop this intellectual bullshit and go fucking crazy instead.


WOO HOOO! WAR IS FANTASTIC. SHOOT'N PEOPLE IS FUURN! YEEHAAWW.

I'm gonna go get my rifle and blast some o' them desert people away. Yessireebob!

Hill billie trailor park red necks of the world, unite!


:ak47: :BangBang: :Kissmy :smokin :thefinger

duroflex, funny.

We already have 28 threads in the past 4 days for that though.

Ahhh yes now its all comming together
http://www.fvotd.com/joesixpack.jpg

As promised, my reply.

Those are indeed valid points. It seems obvious that empathy indeed is, at least for a large part, based on distance, not just geographical but also in thought. For example, it is an empirical fact that people feel more empathy for their pets than they do for human beings in different cultures on the other side of the world. The factor of distance in thought becomes clear when one considers how most non-American Westerners seem to care more about terrorist attacks in America than about murders or starvation in Africa. The reason for this seems to lie primarily in culture - Westerners consider other Westerners to be part of "their" group.
However, one could say this stance is not justified since it is largely based on ignorance - when people get to know people from other cultures or in other places, they seem to accept them into their own group.
An example can be seen here in Holland. People over here tend to complain a lot about immigrants, and almost never want them to settle in their own towns or neighbourhoods. However, on several occassions when the government wanted to return immigrants that had already settled in a certain area to their countries of origin, the people in those areas protested loudly against it, saying they wanted "their" people to be able to stay.
Apparently, the lack of empathy felt for groups other than people's own groups is based on ignorance of those groups, and can be seen as "potential empathy" rather than "lack of empathy".
Because of this, one could say that one of the main characteristics of humans is that they can potentially feel empathy for all other humans.

More to come later tonight (including a rational argument against war in general), since I have to go again :(

Since right and wrong are subjective terms, to answer the question, "Is war necessarily wrong?", without a fixed definition base of what you, or whoever, is subjectively defining what is right and what is wrong, it is not really possible to answer the question.

Without a base definition of what is considered to be "personal gain" it is not really possible to answer the question "Why is the suffering and killing of people for personal gain necessarily wrong?". To use an extreme illustration of the necessity to define "personal gain" is the following scenario. Someone is physically trying to kill you and you kill that person, have you not killed that person for personal gain? Your personal gain in this scenario would be your life.

HEHEHEHEHE.

:1orglaugh :thumbsup

Care to respond to my post Colin?

i will be the first to populate mars,

who needs war?

Going back to your original question is war wrong? No

A human being's strongest instinct is self-preservation. If it is threatened you will instinctually try to destroy that threat.

Is it wrong to hold people without due process? Certainly. In America before 9-11 it would have caused an outrage. Not with the threat of terrorism, it is now commonplace.

Do I have a problem with the seeming contradiction in this now?No, my life and country is threatened. That makes it a totally logical decision.

Is it practicing situational ethics?Yes, because I dont want other nations doing that to me or my countrymen.


If your enemy is one that cannot be reasoned with and is willing to fight to the death I dont think you have a choice but to kill him. If he runs a country then by neccesity you have to go to war in order to kill him.

Yeah, I think your answer is perfect. The question, as you point out, IS too vague. So I guess when people say "War is wrong" they just mean "War is wrong for my value system". Many, many people have the value system that war and murder are always wrong and many other people think war is sometimes justifiable.

Is there anyone that believes someday there will be NO people that believe that there can be justification for War? How would we do that?

Some people have a value system wherein war is justifiable but terrorism is not. Some people have a value system wherein killing soldiers is justifiable and civilians not. Is this "logical"?

And Punkworld ...

I wish you'd take a day off from your girl and hang out for a full discussion some day soon. ;-)