What about the French who live in France... or just their leaders?

Just their leaders really.. i met a few frogs from there and they were okay.

he was alive back then?

The only reason why France & Russia are protesting us from attacking Iraq is cuz they get all their oil from there...& Germany just recently put up a bunch of power stations or something. Other than that they could care less....

So, you're willing to believe that propaganda but you won't believe that Bush is only doing it for oil, right?

:1orglaugh

What about Mexico and all of the South American countries who are against a war? They don't trade with Iraq.

What about the fact that 80-90% of people in many EU countries are against the war? The people don't care about some obscure financial deals that Rush/Bush told you about.

Using your logic, Turkey and the UK are only going to war for money, because they want to appease the United States, one of their biggest trading partners.

Just pointing out how easy the propaganda falls apart if you take a second and think about it. :)

haha that's great. heh how many of these threads have there been they all go nowhere (I'm trying and failing to not participate).

Saying what the French&German's are doing this coz they don't wanna lose business is SO stupid.. Iraq is like their 45th or some shit biggest trading parter it's not a big deal.

The French and Germans have their position because they believe, and their public believes weapon inspectors need more time. They're not defending Saddam Hussein, they're a bit hesitant about war. How can anyone not see that going to war is a step that should be taken after other options have exhausted? It seems a perfectly reasonably position to me.

Have other options been exhausted? NO.
War is bad you ^*&$#&%#('ers

You hate the French? that's pretty f'ing bigoted :)

how about the fact that the USA can get as much or more oil from Canada if they wanted it :winkwink:

Instead they are fighting for oil in an unstable country on the other side of the world? I don't think its the USA that wants the oil BUT they will have countries in the area that do need iraqi oil indebted to them. That might be a bonus.

I think there are many reasons to fight this war. Mostly its like checkmate right now. Saddam is acting like hes better then any other country and it infuriates the USA that anyone should consider themselves more powerful.

I am concerned big time that there are three opposing forces and I am sure some little guys willing to jump ship at a moments notice.

As for the Hitler propaganda. I watched the infamous Bush speech where he needed to start to prepare his nation for war. I knew "hitler" would HAVE to be mentioned. Sure enough.




Its a tough fence for the world to sit on. Its like your best bud is all irational about fighting this guy he hates. He asks you to "back him up". There is a huge ring of people watching two of em fight and you have no idea really whose on what side in that ring of people. You know everyone is on the fence wishing it were not happening. You know people have their personal reasons for choosing this side or that. The french are just big time sitting on the fence. All those that protested the other day are doing the same.

What would happen if Saddam pulled out a few bombs and used em ? all the sudden everyone is on the USA side. BUT even those of you that are American have to agree that the USA has to be kept in check. There has to be people in the world saying "hold on what are you doing" or else the USA is the super power that is feared by all and allowed to do anything they please (which already happens to a huge degree the only difference is they dont kill children in their own country or rape and pilage...etc.)

Its just a dance... but at the same time the tide is turning. I remember 30 years ago everyone in the world wanted to live in the US. That isnt the case anymore.

For the record.... I am not so sure I agree with or for that matter am privy to the reasons why the USA goes to war. I am not sure I agree with some of the things that happen during war but I am sure I am not alone in that. Am I happy that our biggest neighbour is the USA? you bet. I am hoping that there doesnt come a day where we are sacraficed to some god though LOL (just kidding)

I've got a few questions...

1.) How did Saddam do to become the dictator of Iraq? Did he do it alone without any help from another country?

2.) Who will suffer the most if there will be a war, Saddam or the Iraqi people?

Could anyone help me answering those 2 questions?
Thanks in advance!

TurboTrucker, what has Saddam/Iraq ever done to you? It's the 2nd time US attacks a country for no reason, I don't care if the reason is jews or oil, but it's just wrong!

Israel has attacked no less countries than Iraq, yet US is giving them $3 billion every year... so that's probably the #1 reason the world is on Iraq's side.

:2 cents:

no secret that I don't like Bush but he is not Hitler.

I agree with No Carrier .. and kenny.

Why do people make Bush out to be the bad guy?

I believe he is doing the world a gigantic favour and that's fine by me.

War isn't over oil, and Bush and Hitler are in two entirely different positions.

Hitler went after the Jews because they owned all the banks in Germany and also most of the property. Germans were being bought out of their own country, thus all the support for Hitler. Germans aren't all murderous blood lusting Rammstein fans. Just some. The only reason I know this is because my grandfather asked about it during WWII, why the Jews were having their assets seized etc.

Bush is trying to keep his military budget high and his army sharp and deployed. The US has a standard and means of living above the rest of the world. They maintain that by keeping everyone else poorer, this is simply economics. They are losing financial power due to the Euro and the asian economies becoming self sufficient. So they've got one ace in the hole, their army. And they'd be fools not to use it.

The sooner you leave Australia the happier I will be.

You can't have been born here, surely?

i totally agree

I would worry about the asian countries a lot more than Iraq. Saddam is USA's puppet, thats why he has been kept alive and in power for this long. But if other countries get involved in this war, its not gonna be pretty.

Yes, England and France did everything in their power to please Hilter when Germany took over Czechoslovakia, Austria, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, The Netherlands, Norway, and a few other countries. WWI has just ended and Europe was deathly afraid of war. It wasn't until Poland was over run that France and England got their heads of out their asses.

I can only imagine Germany's reason for wanting to avoid war - perhaps the past 100 years of German history has something to do it. France...... France stands to loose big time if Iraq is over run by the US because of the money they've invested there.

President Bush had nothing to do with the Nazis. He was a child then. You cannot blame the actions of his family on him, just like you CANNOT blame slavery on me.

So because Bush isnt putting jews in camps means he's not dangerous? Within two years of being in power Bush has successfully put the whole world on edge with his obsession for invading Iraq, his axis of evil statement, and his assault on the Constitution. Do you really blame North Korea for trying to build a nuclear arsenal? The world knows Bush is a loose cannon and has the potential to do more harm to this world than Hitler ever dreamed of.

Hitler didnt start invading countries or putting jews in concentration camps until 4 years after being in power, we have yet to see what Bush will do.

Even at this point there are some eerie parallels:

In 1933 the Reichstag was burned to the ground, Hitler blamed the Communists and used this as an opportunity for shredding the Weimar Constitution, just as the attack on the World Trade Center provide the Republican administration with the rationale for abolishing freedoms placed from the United States Constitution.

Hitler detached himself from the League of Nations, Bush is in the process of detaching himself from the UN

In Mein Kampf Hitler wrote exactly what he was going to do when
he got into power. Bush has stated on at least three documented
occasions that he would prefer to be a dictator as that would make his job easier. Bush also stated that "there should be limits to freedom."

In 1934 a special People's Court was established to judge cases of treason which, by definition, could mean almost anything including criticism of the government. Ari Fleischer and John A s h c r o f t have both warned US citizens to be careful in what they say.

Early in August, A s h c r o f t proposed a Camp that would allow him to order indefinite incarceration of U.S citizens, stripping them of their constitutional rights and access to attorneys, merely by declaring them to be enemy combatants. It is quite clear that this action runs counter to constitutional guarantees and is frighteningly similar to the tactics of Hitler.

Hitler created a police force to control the people, it was called the "Gestapo." Bush wants to implement the TIPS program that would be similar to the "Gestapo." He wants a million Americans to sign up to spy on other Americans.

Hitler used the military against the citizens and Bush wants to do it to. The Bush administration has directed lawyers in the Departments of Justice and Defense to review the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 and any other laws that sharply
restrict the military's ability to participate in domestic law enforcement.

The Enabling Act of 1934?labeled "Law for the Relief of the
Distress of Nation and State"?gave Hitler's government the right to make laws and treaties without approval of the Reichstag even
when those laws violated the country's constitution. Bush told
Congress he does not need its approval either to declare war or to ignore treaties the US has been a party to.

Hitler spoke of "the Fatherland" and of what was best for its
security, including the detaining of citizens and others without
charge, access to counsel, and with no appeal from the People's
Court. Bush has signed executive orders that give him absolute power to control "the Homeland" for the sake of security. The US PATRIOT Act and the Homeland Security Act have given Bush the right to rule for an undefined period with broad powers unrestrained by law. To facilitate this, he has increased the
powers of the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc

Lev, Mr. Fiction, go to the gym and pump yourselves.

Just kiddn :)

Oh my yes....

I'm sure you have no patience and there's no room for anyone in YOUR country who doesn't agree with you on America....

That's why there is an America fool..... it's ok here for even people like you to spout out your trash and you're STILL welcome here.

:1orglaugh

trying to give credibility to a comparison to Bush and Hitler has to the the height of uninformed, totally bias, plain ol stupidy.

I sincerely feel sorry for you - I really do.

I like toast with peanut butter. Yum!

Exactly which statement do you dispute? Or is this simply a programmed response you give to anyone you disagree with.

yep:thumbsup

I truly believe this is what it's all about.

The hole idea of comparing anyone to Hitler sickens me.

The most asinine I've ever read in my life.....

period.

Well I usually don't read 'asinine', but the 'hole' idea of comparing anyone to Hitler...why does it bother you? Cause you voted for him?

Yes, bush is hitler. you've figured it out.

Now get ready to speak Americanized english your foreign pansies.

3. maybe it's the Iraq people who are suffering the most under Saddam - and maybe this will give them a better life ?

More of them have already died at Saddam's hands than will die in this war. Again - Saddam has already caused more deaths of his own people than we'll cause in this war. And he Gasses a lot of them - he has 1,000's of people he'll use as human shields, as he's done before.

And remember - if there's a "second" resolution - it won't be the "second" - it will be the 18th since the end of the Gulf war... did you know that?

amen

Who I voted for couldn't mean less.

As I said... "anyone" - as in anyone else. me, you, Clinton, Bush, Carter, Marines, school cooks, Saddam, Castro - anyone.

I think it's nuts to compare Hitler to anyone.

I can't imagine anyone with a serious thought in his head who would.

And at least I get to vote - maybe someday they'll be able to do that in Iraq - unless you have something to do with it I guess?

It would be more sensible to compare to hitler those who would keep people under the brutal rule of a dictator.
When this is all over and the Iraqi people are free and no longer tortured, starving, raped, or murdered will you think that Saddam should still be in charge. Will you still think we did the wrong thing?

you are exactly right -

The Iraq people are going to be the winners of this war.

Oh please. So dropping bombs on them are going to give them a better life? I'm willing to bet you werent on here five years ago talking about invading Iraq, only now because Bush and Rush tells you.

Why arent you advocating invading China or North Korea? Plenty of human rights violations going on there and they also have weapons of mass destruction. C'mon dude, quit being Bushes pawn.

Would you be saying anything different if we did invade N. Korea?

No...you'd be saying "Why North Korea? Look at Saddam, he's a brutal dictator. Why aren't you getting him?"

Just can't make everyone happy I guess.

I think he's already a little "happy" in the head now...

These are just Bush haters - they'll say anything without reguard to how totally foolish it makes them sound.

They cannot comprehend what this is really all about - their scope is just too narrow.

Actually I don't think we should be invading any country unless we were being attacked.

But as far as comparing N Korea to Iraq, there is no comparison.
Saddam is no more of a threat to this country than you are. He is completely contained, under constant surveillance by US satellites and AWACS, are you really going to tell me he scares you?
As far as North Korea, they are constantly threatening a nuke war with us, have made it clear they hate America, and have nukes that can reach the US...so you tell me, who's more of a threat? Yet all you people talk about is the threat from Iraq. Then you have Osama, the biggest threat, yet Bush has not even mentioned his name this year. How come nobody on the right seems to care about this??

Yep, typical response. When one has nothing to back their argument they resort to name calling...very childish.

All this started because one proud Retired Marine said what he thought - he spoke his mind - I gues he assumed he was still allowed to do that in America.

Those who have condemed and insulted him must not understand pride in your country - faith in your leaders and believe in freeing the people of Iraq from the horrable conditions they are forced to live with under Saddam, and removing him as a threat to the world, is the right thing to do.

In America - unlike a lot of world - you are allowed to express your opinions without fear of prison. - Though in your case, you might get your ass kicked up and down the street a few times.

People can come here - legally and get food stamps, education, jobs and a freedom you only dreamed of -

But we really don't have a lot of patience for whinning punks who haven't got a clue what's going on insulting it's people and especially those of us who have put their lives on the line for your sorry ass.

Nor do we really give a shit about some ass hole on an old prison island thinking he's got any place at all talking about a US Marine, and how he feels about his country.

Let's see you guys stand up - you think you're safe down there surrounded by sea?

SO DID WE ASS HOLE - YOU AINT SAFE EITHER!




:321GFY

was still more of a response than your silly ass deserved....


You should wish "childish" was all people called someone who compares Hitler to Bush.... It would be the nicest thing anyone's said about you all day.




:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I would tend to disagree. Sadam is a little more of a threat to this country than me. No one will ship me the components to make a chemical weapon and every time I start building the factories to produce the warheads, the local building inspector stops by and tells me I don't have the proper zoning for that. :(