Rochard

I.... Never thought of it this way.

I honestly believe the 2nd amendment is hopelessly outdated. It was written during a time when law enforcement was non existent, our military was non existent, and we feared the wildlife - bears and what. All of the reasons we have the 2nd amendment no longer exist - We now have law enforcement that responds in minutes instead of days, we have the strongest military in the world, and we have animal control to deal with bears and whatnot.

The purpose of the 2nd amendment was also to protect the government - by suppressing insurrection, repelling invasion, and creating a milita...

I'm forty-four years old and not once have I had to defend my house from an intruder. The house across the street was robbed in broad daylight by three large Mexican construction workers - They thought the house was empty but they were scared off by a scrawny fifteen year old boy in his boxer shorts who was sleeping.

I've finally figured out my stance on gun control. I want new laws that bans the sale of any firearm ever for any reason. I have my firearms, and the rest of you are fucking insane.

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vdbucks

Once again, the supreme court already covered this...

tony286

Yes I meant members thanks. How can you say that with a straight face? These all were legally bought guns that caused all this and what about those kids rights? They dont get to grow up.

vdbucks

The context of the 2nd Amendment was updated and ruled on by the supreme court in 2008 and 2010...

tony286

Japan has some of the lowest gun deaths in the world.

vdbucks

How many people get killed every single day in other gun related incidents/crimes? How many people get killed every day from automobiles? Those people don't get to grow up either... so stop with the "those poor kids" nonsense.

Oh but I digress, gang related gun crimes, other gun crimes, auto accidents/crimes, non firearm related crimes/accidents and such don't matter because... you don't hear about it on the mainstream "news" every day...

vdbucks

Yes, and? Japan doesn't have million of gang members and other criminals running around with illegal firearms either now do they?

BlackCrayon

where do you think those illegal firearms came from??

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vdbucks

They didn't come from legal firearms owners passing out theirs... where do the drugs come from and where has the "war on drugs" gotten?

BlackCrayon

so please tell me where they came from then. where do drugs come from? hmm, well since you can make drugs without any professional means, they can come from just about anywhere..i don't really get the comparison. however, prescription drugs which are often abused are made by pharmacy companies and typically resold via fake scripts/shady doctors.

but YES all illegal guns were owned legally at one point or another, either sold or stolen from citizens, dealers, etc. they didn't just drop out of the sky and they weren't made in india...

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tony286

But these were killed with legally purchased guns. The regulations can be fixed.

Vendzilla

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment

I'm not a NRA member.

And what's wrong with a gun company, ammo company, giving money to lobby on their behalf? You're just against the whole democratic process?

What a Militia meant in the 1700's isn't the same as today

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

vdbucks

And how many were killed with illegally owned firearms? FAR more.

tony286

but most of them started as legal guns. So once again we need better regulation.

vdbucks

Sure, some illegally owned weapons were perhaps legally owned at one point. But ghettos and gangs and the overall criminal class aren't armed as well as they are by stealing or otherwise acquiring legally owned firearms.

Or perhaps you've never heard of gun runners and smuggling?

tony286

its not worth it , I give up.lolYou are a smart man you know all the answers for the questions you just asked me.

pimpmaster9000

this statement does not include people that went against eastern european governments but it mostly goes for the 99% that did not screw around: they actually had more freedom than any western european

-no taxes...ok in some places, for the few rare private enterpreneurs, there was some tax but you did not really have to pay it...the tax was really low and their version of the IRS did not really give a shit...in the USA the IRS will rape your life if you do not pay...this is not freedom...not saying there should be no taxes but many countries got by on waaaaaay less than what you are being taxed for...

-completely free education and healthcare that is mostly better than in the USA...cuba has a smaller rate of infant mortality than the USA and their system is free just by comparison...you are not a free man if you have to pay for education and hospital...you are a slave to money that is needed to keep you alive...you should not have to pay for basic stuff like healthcare and education...fuck everybody who may say its utopia...shit stain, decades under sanctions cuba has free health care that is up to par with US...your Iphone healthcare is just a scam Ihealthcare LOL

-no serious crime...no gangs period...hard crime like murder and robbery was extremely rare...the US is not a free society...you are not free if you are afraid...the level of fear is the USA is directly proportional to the level of guns...contrary to popular opinion freedom is not liked to guns...if you need a gun in the first place something is very wrong



I honestly do not know why the USA considers itself the land of the free...nothing is free and nobody is really free...your government is oppressive in many ways...your "Freedoms" are silly (no disrespect just a comment) like gay marriage and right to carry guns while they have tanks and drones and WMD and ICBM-s and Bio and Chemical and Microwaves...they stole your houses and money for christs sake...robbed you blind...

why do you think you a free-er? what can you guys do that we can not?

not trolling, I'm genuinely curious as to why you consider this "Freedom"

vdbucks

Can you show me facts that prove "most of them started as legal guns"? Once again, back an argument around speculation and fantasy.

vdbucks

Here's a thought... if you guys are so against the constitution, so against defending the little freedoms we have left, so against the ideals this country was founded on... why are you still here?

If England , Japan, Switzerland, etc are all so much better and have all the things you guys seem to want... why not move there?

Vendzilla

Straight face? Easy, some nut job is not going to delegate my rights by his actions!

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

tony286

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/11/us...ted=all&src=pm
"In one sad neighborhood here, where funerals for young men and boys are now commonplace, people say the "Gun Man" drives through the streets, selling pistols from the back of a light-blue van.

Not far away in a violent patch of Chicago's South Side, Federal agents arrested a different man, a licensed gun dealer, on charges of selling weapons illegally to undercover officers in dark alleys and crumbling garages. Before he was caught, the authorities say, he sold hundreds of firearms to gang members and anyone else with fistfuls of dollars.

In yet another part of the city a gang leader, who has three children and even more gunshot scars, sits sipping a soda on a rainy night. Calling the city "infected with guns," he explains how easy it is to buy one, no questions asked, at the gun shows held almost every weekend on the city's suburban edge. An Unending Supply

The river of illegal weapons running through the streets of Chicago, as elsewhere, is fed by many tributaries. Those who help legally made guns flow into illegal hands include a small minority of crooked gun dealers, gunrunners who bring in weapons bought in the suburbs or out of state, brigades of burglars and flea-market traders who are happy to sell to any customer."

Again we need better regulation.

Vendzilla

I'm still trying to figure out how our government can ban these weapons by the end of the month but can't balance a budget is how long?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

vdbucks

Show me actual statistics, not generalized bullets points from a media outlet...

tony286

someone you care about gets shot by a nutjob. You are going to say we dont need better regulations. My love one was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

tony286

of course if its not info you believe its not true lol

vdbucks

Ahh yes, here we go... Sorry friend, I grew up in Baltimore when it was dubbed "bloodymore murderland" so I know all about loss. Thanks for trying though.

You know what I would say though if one of my family members was killed in a 'mass shooting'? Stop fucking sensationalizing these incidents on the front page news every damn day and perhaps they wouldn't all of a sudden be happening as often as they are now...

I'd tell the politicians to stop mass marketing mass murder for their own personal agendas and political campaigns.

BlackCrayon

Yeah, and that is why america is known as the arms dealer to the world because guns being smuggled into mexico, canada and europe are coming from the states! no need to smuggle guns INTO the states when there are so many guns being sold illegally already. i guess all the gangbangers got their glocks from smuggers in asia...

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you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

DWB

Until the end of time.

Pass all the laws you want, it will still be just as easy to get one. That is a fact. I live in a country that did exactly what all of you want to do, and it doesn't work. It never works. No matter what laws or regulations are dreamed up, I could enter the USA and get a firearm illegally within 12 hours or less.

I'd like to see no guns at all, but in reality regulation simply isn't going to work no matter how much we all want it to. It has never worked. Lets say they regulate the hell out of them, which I'm all for. Tony and BlackCrayon passes everything needed to get a gun, you're declared sane and responsible citizens and are permitted to own a firearm. Glory days. Me on the other hand, I'm unstable, have a past murder case that I did time for (not really), and am on drugs or part of some criminal element. I break into your house when you're at work or out to dinner and I steal your guns. Now none of that regulation matters. The guy who shouldn't have one does and the guys who should have them could not stop the crazy guy from getting them.

That is the reality of it. Regulate the hell out of them if you want, I support that if it helps people sleep better at night, but it's not going to change anything. People who want them will get them. Just like it's easy to get any drug imaginable even though there is a war on drugs and they are illegal. And as like do here, if they can't get guns, they will make their own. You simply can not legislate or regulate your way out of this problem.

Vendzilla

You keep debating what they meant when they wrote the 2nd amendment, well, this came from the guy that wrote it, pretty clear I think

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

vdbucks

All you did was quickly google a search term and copy/paste the first hit you got. You did nothing to actually verify whether or not the "report" was fact based or hearsay. Sorry friend, the burden of proof is on you. The actual statistics aren't hard to find... but you don't want the actual statistics and facts, you want speculation and fantasy.

tony286

Here you go http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CREC-19...t1-PgS9102.pdf

Southern California atf firearms trace study. And I quote "Commerical gun dealers accounted for 80 percent of gun recovered. " It goes to say many significant gun trafficking cases involve home dealers who bought large quantities of guns and resold them without paperwork.

BlackCrayon

its actually pretty vague and like others have said a million times over, during a time when there was no real organized military or law enforcement. got any other quotes from email forwards you can paste?

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you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

vdbucks

Man, I love this game... You're just proving the point that guns aren't the problem lol... people are.

Vendzilla

My Daughter has a carry permit. I trained her on how to shoot. Fuck regulations

this was taken when I gave her a new pistol

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

vdbucks

In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two landmark decisions officially establishing this interpretation. In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. In dicta, the Court listed many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession as being consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...s_Constitution

BlackCrayon

Of course people are the problem. people make the guns, people sell the guns. i am not sure what you are trying to say. people are the problem so lets not restrict anyone because you can't blame an inanimate object? i really wonder about some of the people debating these issues. between you and mrmaxwell i wonder if there is a ged between the both of you.

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BlackCrayon

yes and big gun money was behind the lawyers on this one. fact is we'll never really know because the guy is long dead.

__________________
you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

Vendzilla

didn't come from an email, it's what he said during the debates when they wrote the amendment, it's not vague at all, it was meant for all people, but hey, you can argue all you want, the supreme court sided with the framers of the constitution as they read the same thing I did.

Use Google, learn , then argue

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

JP-pornshooter

fact is what we are looking at here is control of legal guns.
if you looked at the link i previously posted you'd see that 99% of all those killings were done with firearms.
Same if you look at school massacres, in USA all were carried out using firearms, mostly AR's. (legally obtained and owned)
These guys are in love with the idea of being the big man with a gun, they are loners, no friends, lots of violent video games in their daily routine.

real issue is that innocent children are getting murdered
which could have been prevented with proper gun control and mental screening.

we are not discussing automobile deaths, rarely is an automobile used to mass murder 20+ innocent school children.
accidents happen and always will, thats part of life and we accept that.
allowing mentally deranged people to get their hands on automatic lethal rifles and going on mass murdering sprees is preventable. this is not acceptable.

if you cannot see the difference i fear this discussion is wasted.


ok tin foil hat is being applied, i am out of here......

__________________
"Obscenity is whatever gives the Judge an erection." -- Author Unknown

BlackCrayon

the quote was also part of a pro gun email forward making the rounds lately and now suddenly everyone is quoting it. my apologies for assuming you did the same.

__________________
you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

DWB

Lets think a few generations down the road. History has show us time and time again that governments can and do turn against their people in a tyrannical manner. It may never happen in the USA or it may happen to your children, or your grandchildren, there is no way to tell. Wouldn't you want to keep the 2nd Amendment in place for those who may actually need it someday? You and I will probably be long gone, but what if it is needed 100 years from now and we let it just slip away because we didn't think it was no longer relevant? I hope that day never comes, but it may, and if it does I hope every American can defend themselves properly, and if that means with assault weapons so be it.

I believe the founding fathers knew exactly what was at stake, even if it sounds outdated now.

Minte

That's an interesting spin on communism. If it was great like you say,why did it collapse?

BlackCrayon

lets hope she never ends up in an abusive relationship. stats say access to guns increase 'intimate partner homicide' more than five times than instances when there are no guns in the home. on the plus side she could always use it on an abuser but again, stats show that men are more likely to resort to such violence than women, despite the situation.

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you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

Minte

No headshots on that target. Shooting into kevlar won't get the job done.

tony286

Thats like the fantasy. There is too much money and business here for that to ever ever happen, this isnt Somalia. Also, its also been said time and time again and I posted a whole article about it. It was to protect the gov and the country. Not to rise up against the government.

tony286

I think there is one by his nose.

Minte

nah...that's a mole.

tony286

They put moles are targets? I didnt know that lol Vend was it a shot or a mole?

Rochard

It sure was, wasn't it. Yet oddly enough forty years ago... The 2nd Amendment wasn't considered about gun rights at all, it was a law about having a standing army.

Read your history!

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- Sarah Huckabee Sanders

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