Designers: PSD files? - GoFuckYourself.com

CosmicKitten · 02-19-2003, 02:12 PM

I am curious what other designers opinions are on psd files and job orders. Whether or not to give the client the psd upon completion of the job.

I have recently started to tell clients that I do not give out psd files, unless they are ordering a complete tour package.

Once I did a logo for someone, and didn't think much about it at the time, but they asked for the psd file and also the font. So I went ahead and sent them these things. Then when they launched their new site they had used my psd file to create most of the tour, all the graphical text with the fonts I used, and also had someone else do the banners with the same logo on all of them. No big deal, I just chumped it up to learning and my lack of communication since I didn't really think about all this at the time.

But I look at it this way now: PSD files are for changing/modifying the graphics so if someone just orders a logo or gallery, and I send them the psd file then they can get anyone else to design more things with my graphic recipes in the psd file and thats just not very cool.

In fact, I'd love to get a hold of some other designer's psd files, hehehe.... ;)

D_Nell · 02-19-2003, 02:14 PM

They paid you for it so why not?

sextoyking · 02-19-2003, 02:16 PM

Hi,

We always give customers all psd's after each order is complete.

When we started doing designs most companies didn't give them out, or charged for the psd's. We felt that once a customer has paid for his or her design project, the psd's are there property.

thanks

todd

Mr.Fiction · 02-19-2003, 02:18 PM

When someone does a logo for us, we require that they give us the PSD/AI files. If they didn't, what would we do if they disappear or if we decide to use someone else for something related?

If anyone said they wouldn't give it to us, then we probably wouldn't use them again.

CosmicKitten · 02-19-2003, 02:20 PM

even if they just order one small thing?

So I could order a graphic from someone, and then get the psd file, and then use it to design a other things...?

hmmm I guess everyone is different, and it depends on what they charge, etc.

CosmicKitten · 02-19-2003, 02:22 PM

or what if I place a small order with a kickass, high end designer, get the psd file, and then use a cheaper designer to make more banners with it?

goBigtime · 02-19-2003, 02:22 PM

Give me the PSD's or I'll kick you in the teeth.

sextoyking · 02-19-2003, 02:22 PM

Hi Cosmic,

Whether we do 1 banner for a company or 40 paysites, the customer always gets that email with links to d/l psd's, zip of the work, etc, etc

goBigtime · 02-19-2003, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CosmicKitten
or what if I place a small order with a kickass, high end designer, get the psd file, and then use a cheaper designer to make more banners with it?

You purchased the design. If someone were to have variations of YOUR deisgn purchased from the same designer you used, wouldn't you be pissed?

So I think you should have the right to make variations of your own purchased design if you want to spend the time doing that.

Mr.Fiction · 02-19-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CosmicKitten
even if they just order one small thing?

So I could order a graphic from someone, and then get the psd file, and then use it to design a other things...?

hmmm I guess everyone is different, and it depends on what they charge, etc.

Probably not a big deal on something like banners, but certainly for logos and tour design.

I wouldn't care too much about source files on a banner because they'll probably be stale by the time they need to be changed. But on something like a logo, you're going to be using that for a long time and you are going to need to make a bunch of different stuff at different sizes and resolutions with it.

goBigtime · 02-19-2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

If anyone said they wouldn't give it to us, then we probably wouldn't use them again.

We ask before we buy. You should too.

If they say they wont give you the PSD's then they are new to the design game & you should probably wait a few months to deal with them to avoid other problems. Let them get their feets wet at someone elses expense first.

Mutt · 02-19-2003, 02:27 PM

cosmic must come from the mainstream commerical graphic design world. In that world you do not get the source files when you hire a designer to create something for you. They actually maintain ownership of those, though they don't have the right to re-sell it I don't think.

MarkTiarra · 02-19-2003, 02:28 PM

I always give the PSD file with the design when requested. I also began a new policy of treating everythign as a work for hire and won't put it in my portfolio without permission either.

goBigtime · 02-19-2003, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt
cosmic must come from the mainstream commerical graphic design world.

Mainstream is soooo slooow to catch up to adult. I sort of wish they didn't try though... the fuggin popup's are killing me now.

CosmicKitten · 02-19-2003, 02:30 PM

see, my psd files are whacked, they would confuse the hell out of most people.... I figure that a person comes to me for design because they aren't so good at it, and I am good with making the psd file work and come together nicely. layers, styles, all them goodies.....

I'm more than happy to help a past client with modifications to things, months later even. But somehow giving the psd's just seems like I am giving out my creative tricks. Unless it is stipulated before the job.

I guess I'm just more into it for the artsy side of it all to be honest......and like I said, once I did a logo for someone and the next thing I know there was an entire site and accessories designed with it... why didn't they just give me the entire order ya know?

Cause you can't order a big mac, and ask for the detailed recipe to go with it, right?

CosmicKitten · 02-19-2003, 02:32 PM

btw- thanks for all the opinions, me appreciates.

SpaceAce · 02-19-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CosmicKitten
I am curious what other designers opinions are on psd files and job orders. Whether or not to give the client the psd upon completion of the job.

I have recently started to tell clients that I do not give out psd files, unless they are ordering a complete tour package.

Once I did a logo for someone, and didn't think much about it at the time, but they asked for the psd file and also the font. So I went ahead and sent them these things. Then when they launched their new site they had used my psd file to create most of the tour, all the graphical text with the fonts I used, and also had someone else do the banners with the same logo on all of them. No big deal, I just chumped it up to learning and my lack of communication since I didn't really think about all this at the time.

But I look at it this way now: PSD files are for changing/modifying the graphics so if someone just orders a logo or gallery, and I send them the psd file then they can get anyone else to design more things with my graphic recipes in the psd file and thats just not very cool.

In fact, I'd love to get a hold of some other designer's psd files, hehehe.... ;)

If someone pays you for a job, it isn't "your" data, anymore. It's not really any of your business what they do with the graphics after you make them. I would not deal with a designer who refused to send me the .PSD or other related files for graphics I paid for.

Your Big Mac comparison is ridiculous. Graphics and food are not the same thing. You're comparing digital data and a hamburger, but if you want to compare them at least do it sensibly: When you order a Big Mac you <B>do get all the ingredients</B>. You get your pickles, your sauce, your bun, etc. No, you don't get a detailed recipe, but a PSD isn't a detailed recipe, it's just ingredients. A "detailed recipe" would be explaining to the client how to use drop shadows, inner bevels, your favorite filters, the render->lighting effect, etc. Giving them the PSD is just giving them the ingredients they paid for. What does it matter to you if they rearrange the ingredients to make something else they want?

Edit: before I catch any flames, I know PSD files include the drop shadows and bevels and so on. It's still just an ingredient with no directions for use.

SpaceAce

Amputate Your Head · 02-19-2003, 02:44 PM

I never used to give out source files... EVER. Figured the client bought the tour, not my freaking source files.... and there's nothing wrong with that approach.... but recently I've changed my mind on that. I'll give them out now if asked for them.... mainly because I just don't care anymore. What are they gonna do with them anyway? If they could have created them themselves, they wouldn;t have hired me to do it in the first place... lol

plus, I don't have PSDs.

So if they're hoping to pop a tour open in Photoshop.... they can forget it.

Amputate Your Head · 02-19-2003, 02:49 PM

also.... if you guys are worried about them modifying your techniques and shit... you can still give them the source files.... just flatten all the layers first. Muuahahahahahaaaaa....

CosmicKitten · 02-19-2003, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
also.... if you guys are worried about them modifying your techniques and shit... you can still give them the source files.... just flatten all the layers first. Muuahahahahahaaaaa....

oh I always flatten all my layers anyhow

danevans · 02-19-2003, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
plus, I don't have PSDs.
So if they're hoping to pop a tour open in Photoshop.... they can forget it.

mmm, fireworksMX

I don't like PS, used it only for some filters and smudge tool, but with the new fw there's no need.

Serge Litehead · 02-19-2003, 03:34 PM

at the request we give out psd's for our designs, we prepare them so ppl would know what's going on in there, eventually we will have docs about what is going on in there. as for logos - clients usually need sources especially in vector format - to use for printing and such..

McAttack · 02-19-2003, 10:20 PM

I also believe that the source files should be provided if asked for it. The graphic artist is creating something for a client, the client is not buying something pre-made from the artist.

If a logo is created for me, and it comes, black background, all nice and colourful. Nice. Now my business card will have a white background. Well the logo I was given by the artist is useless. It causes problems, maybe the artist is out of town for two weeks, and the printer tells me he needs the graphic now. I'm screwed. If I have the source file, I can go to the original artist or go to any other person to have the modifications made that I need.

But that's my preference when looking for a graphic artist.

sexydave · 02-20-2003, 10:56 AM

Humm... Great debate!

At the opening of our webdesign website (1995), we were giving all sources files. We change our policy to not giving the PSD now for thoses reasons:

1. Our price are really cheap (15$/banner) for high-end design.
2. Clients ask always for "Who To" in our sources files, anyways.
3. Clients, we modified the original work, are no use for us in our portfolio.
4. Clients destroy our design and tell others clients that is our work.
5. Our design are our image. If they change it, they show a wrong image and quality of what we can do.

Keep in mind that we're have Europe clients, not US clients (or too many). Europe clients think that they could hire High-end designers for 10$/banners... In average time on each banner project, we pass 2hours. 7-8hours for a single page... Imagine the time for a full paysite of 4-5 pages! The main reason is they, in general, don't know what they want but know what they didn't want...

In general, US clients are better clients, they know the time a project takes to be perfect and have more respect for the designers works...

Hope this could help,

Amputate Your Head · 02-20-2003, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sexydave
Humm... Great debate!

At the opening of our webdesign website (1995), we were giving all sources files. We change our policy to not giving the PSD now for thoses reasons:

1. Our price are really cheap (15$/banner) for high-end design.
2. Clients ask always for "Who To" in our sources files, anyways.
3. Clients, we modified the original work, are no use for us in our portfolio.
4. Clients destroy our design and tell others clients that is our work.
5. Our design are our image. If they change it, they show a wrong image and quality of what we can do.

Keep in mind that we're have Europe clients, not US clients (or too many). Europe clients think that they could hire High-end designers for 10$/banners... In average time on each banner project, we pass 2hours. 7-8hours for a single page... Imagine the time for a full paysite of 4-5 pages! The main reason is they, in general, don't know what they want but know what they didn't want...

In general, US clients are better clients, they know the time a project takes to be perfect and have more respect for the designers works...

Hope this could help,

good solid points...

badmunchkin · 02-20-2003, 11:10 AM

We do not provide psd files. If I do a logo for someone that's included in the price of a business card design or as a small graphic for a website, the customer has no right to go & use that for other advertising. They need to pay to license that logo for use in their flyers, brochures, tv/magazine/newspaper ads. To license it would normally cost more then their whole business card order. Why should I just give it away? They will be provided a hi-res version that is adequate for use in other advertising mediums. This is standard in the mainstream design world. We charge $300 for logo design but only $200 for 5000 full color business cards with graphics and/or logo design. It's a different animal & the client does not have the right to take that logo & re-use it for all their advertising. I'm just getting into working with the adult industry but don't know why it should be any different in the adult biz then for any other clientele.

sextoyking · 02-20-2003, 11:25 AM

Good Points everyone, but giving away Psd's is standard for us.

Look most ppl think if I give them the psd's for a banner job, now they can go make more themselves, etc. We have the same return customer rate as always.

Alot of companies have in house ppl, but outsource to us for paysites, etc. If they need a touch up or a change down the road, text wise, whatever, with there psd's they can take care of it.

Naughty · 02-20-2003, 11:27 AM

If you buy a sculpture, you don't get the mould to produce more sculptures either.

I am 100% with CosmicKitten, if a client wants stuff changed I am more than happy to make those free of charge.

But simply giving the sourcefiles is a no-no in my book, unless you are a good client and ask nicely

sexydave · 02-20-2003, 11:28 AM

Sorry, i forgot to mention others things.

First, i think the original post is not well asked... We don't know the price of Kitchen charge for his project.

For example, i could understand WebInc to give away the psd files. His price's covers the originals files (35$/banner for example).

Another thing, the fonts : Here we have over 25000 fonts here at CyberErotixxx. In thoses sets of fonts, we have Highly quality Adobe Fonts Folio and several others professional fonts at 30$/font (fontbureau) and others free webfonts.

Per example : I take the BodegaFont (30$) for a banner... We sold our banner 20$ (animated)... see the picture??? If we gave the original files of this banner, it must be 50$! We have to register the font to his domain too for this price... i don't think so.

Other thing : we're not always using TTF fonts. in general, clients didn't have a clue how to install this king of fonts (others than TTF)... Do we have to offer support for that too?

Here at CyberErotixxx, we prefer to work closely with the clients. Not for only one project... So it's time consuming for the clients to try modifing our work instead of asking to do it...

Regards,

Fletch XXX · 02-20-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sextoyking

Look most ppl think if I give them the psd's for a banner job, now they can go make more themselves, etc.

This is the exact problem.

You dont care because its not your work.

If you were the artist doing the work you might feel differently.

sextoyking · 02-20-2003, 11:31 AM

Sexdave,

well we don't actually charge $35.00 per banner.

I don't think there is 1 adult design company on the net who does more banners per day/week/month as we do at webinc.com

most of the customers order 100 at a time, as our price is about $750.00 per 100 animated.

We will agree to disagree everyone, I just feel giving out the psd's is part of the finished product..

thanks

todd

sextoyking · 02-20-2003, 11:33 AM

Fletch,

wtf do you mean I don't care?? I have owned webinc.com since 1995, and ran it as a design company for 3 years.

it's one of my babies, and I take pride in the work we do, and the customer service we give all clients.

Our team of 9 rocks, and we don't get to be judged in the top 2 adult design companies for nothing.

But hey me personally I can't even draw a stick figure

Fletch XXX · 02-20-2003, 11:36 AM

You say giving PSds doesnt matter, its part of the gig.

Youve obviously never designed something for someone, given them the PSDs and seen your work replicated, have you?

My post simply meant, have that done to you, and then come back here.

Ive been ripped from so many times its pathetic.

I no longer give PSds on $35 jobs.

I used to.

No more.

On big projects sure, but banners etc

no

sextoyking · 02-20-2003, 11:38 AM

Hey Fletch,

yeh I see what you mean.

To be ohnest I don't know if we have been ripped before by someone getting there psd's from us, I am sure it's a possibilty though.

That's just our way of doing business. You and others do it your way...

Amputate Your Head · 02-20-2003, 11:40 AM

my take on it is that it shouldn't be expected without asking first. Alot of people simply assume that the source files are part of the deal. That's not always true and if the designer's policy is to not give them out, he's not going to give them out. There's really nothing anyone can do to force him to. Generally speaking, a design job is for the finished product... whether that's a website or a business card or whatever.... nobody orders source files. They order a finished product.

If you have a Tshirt company make you some custom shirts for your company, they are not going to give you their layouts and stuff that they used in the creation of the project.

Supercharged · 02-20-2003, 11:46 AM

I have always provided PSD's when asked, funny thing is, even the companies that ask for them come back to us for doing even the most simple of changes.

I am sure the logos are being used at banner sweat shops, but who really cares, the bottom line is the bottom line, are you happy with the money you are making ?

If someone is using your PSD's to create other designs then I think thats a whole different story and damn close to theft.

But then I have seen whole sites stolen, and very little can be done about it...

If you get hit by a bus why should the client be left in a lurch...

Until I see evidence of common abuse of our PSD's I will continue to provide them when asked.

machineg · 02-20-2003, 11:52 AM

I never give out source files for anything . with exception of a logo .

the design is the design .. the PSds or whatever it may be .. are not part of the price .. The client needs something changed I can do it .

my PSDs are useless anyway .

JimW · 02-20-2003, 11:59 AM

This are lots of good point on this topic...

In hopes of saving time for the designer on tweaking a tour
I would request the psds from the designer...

so if its something minor I could knock it out quickly myself and not bother the designer as he probably moved on to next project by now,etc....

but I understand that some people use a psd to create a whole new tour.. this is a definate no-no..

demented · 02-20-2003, 12:00 PM

I give customers the PSD's when I'm finished. Always have. Now fonts are a different story. I bought many of my fonts and I wont just give them away. That wouldn't be right for the person who made the font. If they want more work done with the same font, I'm more than happy to do it.

Fletch XXX · 02-20-2003, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by demented
I give customers the PSD's when I'm finished. Always have. Now fonts are a different story. I bought many of my fonts and I wont just give them away. That wouldn't be right for the person who made the font. If they want more work done with the same font, I'm more than happy to do it.

Ahem

this is another one.

I have given clients fonts I paid for and regret it.

Ever did a design and had the client use the font throughout the rest of their site after they get it from you?

Most people just dont give a fuck I think.

sexydave · 02-20-2003, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sextoyking
well we don't actually charge $35.00 per banner.

Sextoyking...

As i can see on Webinc pages... a banner is 35$ (animated). I'm not taking about bulk price as we do too when clients ask for it. I'm just saying that Webinc is giving psd, and it's okay, and cover the price with it.

We're prefer not giving the psd and deliver the charges faster than the clients can do it bcause they didn't know how to work with psd...

Anyways, European clients are very different than US clients, i agree... If even someday we translate our site in english to please US clients, we will change our price and give the PSD of course bcause mainly, US clients are more use to work with psd than European clients...

02-19-2003, 02:12 PM	#1
CosmicKitten Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 225	Designers: PSD files? I am curious what other designers opinions are on psd files and job orders. Whether or not to give the client the psd upon completion of the job. I have recently started to tell clients that I do not give out psd files, unless they are ordering a complete tour package. Once I did a logo for someone, and didn't think much about it at the time, but they asked for the psd file and also the font. So I went ahead and sent them these things. Then when they launched their new site they had used my psd file to create most of the tour, all the graphical text with the fonts I used, and also had someone else do the banners with the same logo on all of them. No big deal, I just chumped it up to learning and my lack of communication since I didn't really think about all this at the time. But I look at it this way now: PSD files are for changing/modifying the graphics so if someone just orders a logo or gallery, and I send them the psd file then they can get anyone else to design more things with my graphic recipes in the psd file and thats just not very cool. In fact, I'd love to get a hold of some other designer's psd files, hehehe.... ;)

02-19-2003, 02:14 PM	#2
D_Nell Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,264	They paid you for it so why not? __________________ ITS TIME FOR SOME FREEHOSTING DAMN IT! CLICK HERE! ICQ# 98081374 \| [email protected]

02-19-2003, 02:16 PM	#3
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Hi, We always give customers all psd's after each order is complete. When we started doing designs most companies didn't give them out, or charged for the psd's. We felt that once a customer has paid for his or her design project, the psd's are there property. thanks todd __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

02-19-2003, 02:22 PM	#8
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Hi Cosmic, Whether we do 1 banner for a company or 40 paysites, the customer always gets that email with links to d/l psd's, zip of the work, etc, etc __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

02-19-2003, 02:27 PM	#12
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	cosmic must come from the mainstream commerical graphic design world. In that world you do not get the source files when you hire a designer to create something for you. They actually maintain ownership of those, though they don't have the right to re-sell it I don't think. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

02-19-2003, 02:18 PM	#4
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	When someone does a logo for us, we require that they give us the PSD/AI files. If they didn't, what would we do if they disappear or if we decide to use someone else for something related? If anyone said they wouldn't give it to us, then we probably wouldn't use them again.

02-19-2003, 02:20 PM	#5
CosmicKitten Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 225	even if they just order one small thing? So I could order a graphic from someone, and then get the psd file, and then use it to design a other things...? hmmm I guess everyone is different, and it depends on what they charge, etc.

02-19-2003, 02:22 PM	#7
goBigtime Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,761	Give me the PSD's or I'll kick you in the teeth.

02-19-2003, 02:28 PM	#13
MarkTiarra Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 3,833	I always give the PSD file with the design when requested. I also began a new policy of treating everythign as a work for hire and won't put it in my portfolio without permission either. __________________ Retired Pornosticator

02-19-2003, 02:30 PM	#15
CosmicKitten Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 225	see, my psd files are whacked, they would confuse the hell out of most people.... I figure that a person comes to me for design because they aren't so good at it, and I am good with making the psd file work and come together nicely. layers, styles, all them goodies..... I'm more than happy to help a past client with modifications to things, months later even. But somehow giving the psd's just seems like I am giving out my creative tricks. Unless it is stipulated before the job. I guess I'm just more into it for the artsy side of it all to be honest......and like I said, once I did a logo for someone and the next thing I know there was an entire site and accessories designed with it... why didn't they just give me the entire order ya know? Cause you can't order a big mac, and ask for the detailed recipe to go with it, right?

02-19-2003, 02:32 PM	#16
CosmicKitten Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 225	btw- thanks for all the opinions, me appreciates.

02-19-2003, 02:44 PM	#18
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	I never used to give out source files... EVER. Figured the client bought the tour, not my freaking source files.... and there's nothing wrong with that approach.... but recently I've changed my mind on that. I'll give them out now if asked for them.... mainly because I just don't care anymore. What are they gonna do with them anyway? If they could have created them themselves, they wouldn;t have hired me to do it in the first place... lol plus, I don't have PSDs. So if they're hoping to pop a tour open in Photoshop.... they can forget it. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

02-19-2003, 02:49 PM	#19
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	also.... if you guys are worried about them modifying your techniques and shit... you can still give them the source files.... just flatten all the layers first. Muuahahahahahaaaaa.... __________________ SIG TOO BIG

02-19-2003, 03:34 PM	#22
Serge Litehead Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind the scenes Posts: 5,190	at the request we give out psd's for our designs, we prepare them so ppl would know what's going on in there, eventually we will have docs about what is going on in there. as for logos - clients usually need sources especially in vector format - to use for printing and such.. __________________ SilverCrocodile.com Adult web design since '05

02-19-2003, 10:20 PM	#23
McAttack Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 625	I also believe that the source files should be provided if asked for it. The graphic artist is creating something for a client, the client is not buying something pre-made from the artist. If a logo is created for me, and it comes, black background, all nice and colourful. Nice. Now my business card will have a white background. Well the logo I was given by the artist is useless. It causes problems, maybe the artist is out of town for two weeks, and the printer tells me he needs the graphic now. I'm screwed. If I have the source file, I can go to the original artist or go to any other person to have the modifications made that I need. But that's my preference when looking for a graphic artist. __________________ You know Teen Kelly converts like crazy.

02-20-2003, 10:56 AM	#24
sexydave Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Montreal, Qc Posts: 37	Humm... Great debate! At the opening of our webdesign website (1995), we were giving all sources files. We change our policy to not giving the PSD now for thoses reasons: 1. Our price are really cheap (15$/banner) for high-end design. 2. Clients ask always for "Who To" in our sources files, anyways. 3. Clients, we modified the original work, are no use for us in our portfolio. 4. Clients destroy our design and tell others clients that is our work. 5. Our design are our image. If they change it, they show a wrong image and quality of what we can do. Keep in mind that we're have Europe clients, not US clients (or too many). Europe clients think that they could hire High-end designers for 10$/banners... In average time on each banner project, we pass 2hours. 7-8hours for a single page... Imagine the time for a full paysite of 4-5 pages! The main reason is they, in general, don't know what they want but know what they didn't want... In general, US clients are better clients, they know the time a project takes to be perfect and have more respect for the designers works... Hope this could help, __________________ SexyDave, webmaster Webdesign company : CyberErotixxx

02-20-2003, 11:10 AM	#26
badmunchkin Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 3,797	We do not provide psd files. If I do a logo for someone that's included in the price of a business card design or as a small graphic for a website, the customer has no right to go & use that for other advertising. They need to pay to license that logo for use in their flyers, brochures, tv/magazine/newspaper ads. To license it would normally cost more then their whole business card order. Why should I just give it away? They will be provided a hi-res version that is adequate for use in other advertising mediums. This is standard in the mainstream design world. We charge $300 for logo design but only $200 for 5000 full color business cards with graphics and/or logo design. It's a different animal & the client does not have the right to take that logo & re-use it for all their advertising. I'm just getting into working with the adult industry but don't know why it should be any different in the adult biz then for any other clientele. __________________ Custom, Full Color Printing with BIG Discounts for GFY! ICQ 283197499

02-20-2003, 11:25 AM	#27
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Good Points everyone, but giving away Psd's is standard for us. Look most ppl think if I give them the psd's for a banner job, now they can go make more themselves, etc. We have the same return customer rate as always. Alot of companies have in house ppl, but outsource to us for paysites, etc. If they need a touch up or a change down the road, text wise, whatever, with there psd's they can take care of it. __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

02-20-2003, 11:27 AM	#28
Naughty Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Utopia Posts: 6,482	If you buy a sculpture, you don't get the mould to produce more sculptures either. I am 100% with CosmicKitten, if a client wants stuff changed I am more than happy to make those free of charge. But simply giving the sourcefiles is a no-no in my book, unless you are a good client and ask nicely __________________ seks.ai for sale - ping me

02-20-2003, 11:28 AM	#29
sexydave Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Montreal, Qc Posts: 37	Sorry, i forgot to mention others things. First, i think the original post is not well asked... We don't know the price of Kitchen charge for his project. For example, i could understand WebInc to give away the psd files. His price's covers the originals files (35$/banner for example). Another thing, the fonts : Here we have over 25000 fonts here at CyberErotixxx. In thoses sets of fonts, we have Highly quality Adobe Fonts Folio and several others professional fonts at 30$/font (fontbureau) and others free webfonts. Per example : I take the BodegaFont (30$) for a banner... We sold our banner 20$ (animated)... see the picture??? If we gave the original files of this banner, it must be 50$! We have to register the font to his domain too for this price... i don't think so. Other thing : we're not always using TTF fonts. in general, clients didn't have a clue how to install this king of fonts (others than TTF)... Do we have to offer support for that too? Here at CyberErotixxx, we prefer to work closely with the clients. Not for only one project... So it's time consuming for the clients to try modifing our work instead of asking to do it... Regards, __________________ SexyDave, webmaster Webdesign company : CyberErotixxx

02-20-2003, 11:31 AM	#31
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Sexdave, well we don't actually charge $35.00 per banner. I don't think there is 1 adult design company on the net who does more banners per day/week/month as we do at webinc.com most of the customers order 100 at a time, as our price is about $750.00 per 100 animated. We will agree to disagree everyone, I just feel giving out the psd's is part of the finished product.. thanks todd __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

02-20-2003, 11:33 AM	#32
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Fletch, wtf do you mean I don't care?? I have owned webinc.com since 1995, and ran it as a design company for 3 years. it's one of my babies, and I take pride in the work we do, and the customer service we give all clients. Our team of 9 rocks, and we don't get to be judged in the top 2 adult design companies for nothing. But hey me personally I can't even draw a stick figure __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

02-20-2003, 11:36 AM	#33
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	You say giving PSds doesnt matter, its part of the gig. Youve obviously never designed something for someone, given them the PSDs and seen your work replicated, have you? My post simply meant, have that done to you, and then come back here. Ive been ripped from so many times its pathetic. I no longer give PSds on $35 jobs. I used to. No more. On big projects sure, but banners etc no __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

02-20-2003, 11:38 AM	#34
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Hey Fletch, yeh I see what you mean. To be ohnest I don't know if we have been ripped before by someone getting there psd's from us, I am sure it's a possibilty though. That's just our way of doing business. You and others do it your way... __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

02-20-2003, 11:40 AM	#35
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	my take on it is that it shouldn't be expected without asking first. Alot of people simply assume that the source files are part of the deal. That's not always true and if the designer's policy is to not give them out, he's not going to give them out. There's really nothing anyone can do to force him to. Generally speaking, a design job is for the finished product... whether that's a website or a business card or whatever.... nobody orders source files. They order a finished product. If you have a Tshirt company make you some custom shirts for your company, they are not going to give you their layouts and stuff that they used in the creation of the project. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

02-20-2003, 11:46 AM	#36
Supercharged Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: B.C., Canada Posts: 219	I have always provided PSD's when asked, funny thing is, even the companies that ask for them come back to us for doing even the most simple of changes. I am sure the logos are being used at banner sweat shops, but who really cares, the bottom line is the bottom line, are you happy with the money you are making ? If someone is using your PSD's to create other designs then I think thats a whole different story and damn close to theft. But then I have seen whole sites stolen, and very little can be done about it... If you get hit by a bus why should the client be left in a lurch... Until I see evidence of common abuse of our PSD's I will continue to provide them when asked. __________________ Stephan ICQ 4491799 Supercharged Web Designs Web Hosting Adult Design

02-20-2003, 11:52 AM	#37
machineg Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,090	I never give out source files for anything . with exception of a logo . the design is the design .. the PSds or whatever it may be .. are not part of the price .. The client needs something changed I can do it . my PSDs are useless anyway . __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

02-20-2003, 11:59 AM	#38
JimW Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 422	This are lots of good point on this topic... In hopes of saving time for the designer on tweaking a tour I would request the psds from the designer... so if its something minor I could knock it out quickly myself and not bother the designer as he probably moved on to next project by now,etc.... but I understand that some people use a psd to create a whole new tour.. this is a definate no-no..

02-20-2003, 12:00 PM	#39
demented Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cincinnati Ohio Posts: 2,388	I give customers the PSD's when I'm finished. Always have. Now fonts are a different story. I bought many of my fonts and I wont just give them away. That wouldn't be right for the person who made the font. If they want more work done with the same font, I'm more than happy to do it.