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-   -   Banning Assault weapons may not be the right direction according to this (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1094674)

Tom_PM 12-31-2012 01:19 PM
Hey. I have a question for you. Do you think your puny lock on your door is going to stop someone who really wants to get in to your house? Then why do you bother locking it?

According to some, it's hopeless and useless to try to regulate something.. anything.. once the ball is already rolling. Give up now and jump in a volcano or something I guess, it's hopeless. Utterly hopeless.

tony286 12-31-2012 01:49 PM
I got a question for Rochard since he trained people on firearms. Do they know the percentage of people that have a gun and freeze in a crisis situation?
Everyone assumes the inner James Bond kicks but I got to figure that's not the case.

tony286 12-31-2012 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PR_Tom (Post 19398551)
Hey. I have a question for you. Do you think your puny lock on your door is going to stop someone who really wants to get in to your house? Then why do you bother locking it?

According to some, it's hopeless and useless to try to regulate something.. anything.. once the ball is already rolling. Give up now and jump in a volcano or something I guess, it's hopeless. Utterly hopeless.
You could of said that about slavery, child labor but it changed. The NRA works for the gun business not the people. The gun business makes big money on military type hardware. So the idea to ask a few more questions is the end of the world because it slows down gun sales.
Go start buying a shit ton of cold meds,which you will be asked for id and you are tracked. After a while they will stop selling it to you and you will get a knock on your door asking why you needed all those meds.
But go buy 6000 rounds of ammo no one will ask you anything. Something is wrong with that.

Gozarian 12-31-2012 01:58 PM
You better have a wad of cash for 6000 rounds of my favorite firearm; they cost $7 apiece.

Vendzilla 12-31-2012 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19398579)
I got a question for Rochard since he trained people on firearms. Do they know the percentage of people that have a gun and freeze in a crisis situation?
Everyone assumes the inner James Bond kicks but I got to figure that's not the case.
Most people that hunt, they know. That's why you go to the range and practice. Just the same with Martial Arts. You go over and over the same moves so that it comes naturally when the time is it's needed. I took my daughter to the range almost every month. It was close and it was fun.
The military actually has tests to see who would make a good sniper, not by ability with a rifle, but being able to coldly pull the trigger

Vendzilla 12-31-2012 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19398586)
You could of said that about slavery, child labor but it changed. The NRA works for the gun business not the people. The gun business makes big money on military type hardware. So the idea to ask a few more questions is the end of the world because it slows down gun sales.
Go start buying a shit ton of cold meds,which you will be asked for id and you are tracked. After a while they will stop selling it to you and you will get a knock on your door asking why you needed all those meds.
But go buy 6000 rounds of ammo no one will ask you anything. Something is wrong with that.
you didn't read the OP. Chicago requires a state issued permit to buy ammo

Vendzilla 12-31-2012 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PR_Tom (Post 19398551)
Hey. I have a question for you. Do you think your puny lock on your door is going to stop someone who really wants to get in to your house? Then why do you bother locking it?

According to some, it's hopeless and useless to try to regulate something.. anything.. once the ball is already rolling. Give up now and jump in a volcano or something I guess, it's hopeless. Utterly hopeless.
Tom, that was pretty lame,what myself and others have been saying is not that regulation doesn't work, what we are saying is that regulating legal ownership is a mute point when it doesn't apply to illegal owners and that the regulations that the idiots in congress come up with are so full of holes because that's the way they like to do things that anything they pass is pretty much worthless. Chicago has more regulations than any place I know of in the US and it doesn't work

Vendzilla 12-31-2012 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19398386)
No one has ever heard of Kennesaw, Geogia. Switzerland has firearms in every house, yet has a higher gun death rate than the UK which has no firearms.

But let's talk about Kennesaw... They claim to have low crime rates, and then I find this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1818862/posts

We are talking about a city with 30k poeple in it, and yet in 2004 they had 172 assaults and 86 Burglaries.... Yet we have this gem: "Gun rights activist David Kopel has claimed that there is evidence that this gun law has reduced the incident rate of home burglaries citing that in the first year, home burglaries dropped from 65 before the ordinance, down to 26 in 1983, and to 11 in 1984." So home burglaries went down from 65 to 26 to 11 and then jumped up 86 in 2004? I mean, I'm not searching too hard for stats here and I am quickly able to disprove your fact.

Let's compare Kennesaw to my hometown of Lincoln, California. Kennesaw has 30k, Lincoln California has 40k. Kennesaw has a "mandatory gun law" and Lincoln does not.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/lincoln/crime/
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/kennesaw/crime/

Kennesaw is safer than 35% of US Cities, while Lincoln is 72% safer than all US Cities? We had a murder in Lincoln which was earth shattering for us, the first in decades.

So my city with no mandatory gun is twice as safe as your town with it?

You can't compare European gun laws to US gun laws, I've heard of Kennesaw, when they passed that law, a lot of people heard of it, it was a big thing. And what ever you try to pick apart in the stats for Kennesaw, it's still over 50% less crime overall. Not about Lincoln, it's about more guns being added and crime going down
Real simple, if you are looking to commit a crime, you don't hit a house with NRA decals in the window, and you don't hit the donut shop next to the police station

Gozarian 12-31-2012 02:16 PM
Hell I remember when I lived in Chicago the feds raided the El Rukn 'Temple' they found several rocket launchers. Jeff Fort was a serious wack job. Good thing he is in SuperMax.

Vendzilla 12-31-2012 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19398393)
500 murders in Chicago is a good thing because it's not the 900 murders they had before the strict gun laws. Don't you get it? The gun laws reduced murders by half....
most of the strict gun laws came into effect before the 900 murders( 1994 being the last year above 900) the biggest were passed in 1982. Don't you get it? 1992 is when they passed the assault weapons ban, but hand guns ban was passed in 1982.

The gun laws have done very little, just unarmed legal ownership.

Rochard 12-31-2012 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 19398624)
most of the strict gun laws came into effect before the 900 murders( 1994 being the last year above 900) the biggest were passed in 1982. Don't you get it? 1992 is when they passed the assault weapons ban, but hand guns ban was passed in 1982.

The gun laws have done very little, just unarmed legal ownership.
Truth be told, in the past two years some of those laws have been struck down or put on hold pending constitutional review - the Supreme Court just knocked down Chicago's handgun ban.

Do you see what I'm saying here Brett? Your saying that Chicago has tough gun laws and homicides is going up, and I'm telling you that the Supreme Court just knocked down their twenty year ban on handguns and homicides have gone up.

Earlier you mentioned some city in GA where they are required to have handguns, yet it's only half as safe as my hometown that doesn't have such a silly law.

Why is it that every time you say something Brett the direct opposite is true?

Rochard 12-31-2012 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 19398624)
most of the strict gun laws came into effect before the 900 murders( 1994 being the last year above 900) the biggest were passed in 1982. Don't you get it? 1992 is when they passed the assault weapons ban, but hand guns ban was passed in 1982.

The gun laws have done very little, just unarmed legal ownership.
The handgun ban in Chicago was just knocked down by the Supreme Court, and magically in the same year homicides goes up. Like Magic.

PornoMonster 12-31-2012 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by epitome (Post 19397704)
Anyone that actually knows DC knows that the murder rate has gone down. In the last decade a lot of the SE and parts of NE were gobbled up and revitalized. The criminal element moved to neighboring Prince Georges Co. where the murder rate soared.

Something similar happened in Baltimore with Section 8 housing but on a much smaller scale.
As I heard the crime and murder rate for the USA is down.

PornoMonster 12-31-2012 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19398638)
Truth be told, in the past two years some of those laws have been struck down or put on hold pending constitutional review - the Supreme Court just knocked down Chicago's handgun ban.

Do you see what I'm saying here Brett? Your saying that Chicago has tough gun laws and homicides is going up, and I'm telling you that the Supreme Court just knocked down their twenty year ban on handguns and homicides have gone up.

Earlier you mentioned some city in GA where they are required to have handguns, yet it's only half as safe as my hometown that doesn't have such a silly law.

Why is it that every time you say something Brett the direct opposite is true?
So 18 years of gun ban, and still shootings happen?

I bet after all the stats are in 2012 is up everywhere, despite the USA has gone down several years now for crime. 2012 might of changed that, not sure, have to wait and see!

PornoMonster 12-31-2012 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NETbilling (Post 19397794)
An assault weapons ban would take several years to see any effects and thats ok with me. Do it now and let our children and theirs reap the benefits.
I think it has been said the 10 year assault looking weapon ban did nothing...

GFED 12-31-2012 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19398640)
The handgun ban in Chicago was just knocked down by the Supreme Court, and magically in the same year homicides goes up. Like Magic.
That is magic... since the new laws won't go into effect until next year and it takes months to get your ccw license after applying for it.

Rochard 12-31-2012 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19398579)
I got a question for Rochard since he trained people on firearms. Do they know the percentage of people that have a gun and freeze in a crisis situation?
Everyone assumes the inner James Bond kicks but I got to figure that's not the case.
I didn't teach firearms really - I wasn't the guy who came out with an M16 and show people how to use it. I was an instructor at AITS (Advanced Infantry Training School) which taught combat tactics to staff NCOs and officers.

However, everyone thinks they are James Bond and can respond to a tactical situation with no problems. Some people will lock up with pure fear, and others will not be able to pull the trigger because the possibility of taken a stranger's life when they don't know all of the facts stops them - Are you shooting the bad guy or are you shooting an off duty police officer who is trying to take out the shooter, or if you are in your house are you taking aim at the robber or your armed neighbor who saw someone break into your house?

You break into my house at 3am and set off my alarm, the local police would be able to respond quicker than I would. By the time I woke up and figured out what was going on it would be over.

Rochard 12-31-2012 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 19398598)
Most people that hunt, they know. That's why you go to the range and practice. Just the same with Martial Arts. You go over and over the same moves so that it comes naturally when the time is it's needed. I took my daughter to the range almost every month. It was close and it was fun.
The military actually has tests to see who would make a good sniper, not by ability with a rifle, but being able to coldly pull the trigger
No, people who hunt don't know at all. Shooting at an animal and taking the life of another person is two completely different things. Taking someone's life and comparing to kicking them could not be further apart.

Shooting at a range in a safe environment where no one is shooting back at you vs potentially killing someone is two utterly different things.

Gozarian 12-31-2012 04:05 PM
WTF, Rochard, SCOUTUS struck down Chicago’s longstanding handgun ban in June 2010. The hand gun ban was adopted March 19, 1982 and was never stayed during the legal process.

The 7th Circuit court struck down the state wide concealed carry ban (720 ILCS 5/24-2) Dec 11 2012 which was passed in 1994 and also was not stayed during the appeal process.

Rochard 12-31-2012 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gozarian (Post 19398729)
WTF, Rochard, SCOUTUS struck down Chicago?s longstanding handgun ban in June 2010. The hand gun ban was adopted March 19, 1982 and was never stayed during the legal process.
There are multiple firearm laws that have been in place since the early 1980s, which helped to cut the homicide rate in half - from a high of 900 to 400.

Over the past two or three years multiple laws have been struck down, including laws about carrying concealed weapons and carrying handguns in public places. During this time, homicides rise.

Meanwhile, in gun crazy land, the gun nuts are working over time to get these laws over turned and are being successful, and then telling us that the "most strict gun laws in the country" are a fail because Chicago had 500 homicides... The truth is when gun laws were in place they reduced homicides, and now that they are being removed homicides are going up. This is proof that gun laws work.

It's common sense: More firearms equals more firearm crimes.

Rochard 12-31-2012 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 19398608)
Tom, that was pretty lame,what myself and others have been saying is not that regulation doesn't work, what we are saying is that regulating legal ownership is a mute point when it doesn't apply to illegal owners and that the regulations that the idiots in congress come up with are so full of holes because that's the way they like to do things that anything they pass is pretty much worthless. Chicago has more regulations than any place I know of in the US and it doesn't work
Chicago put gun laws into place that reduced homicides by half, from a high of 900 to 400.

A number of gun laws were struct down over the past two or three years, including laws about carrying weapons in public places and carrying concealed weapons, which resulted in homicides going up this year.

Seems to me that gun laws work, and removing them fails.

Gozarian 12-31-2012 04:23 PM
http://chicagocrimescenes.blogspot.r...go+murder+rate

good history of murder in Chicago.

GFED 12-31-2012 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19398756)
Chicago put gun laws into place that reduced homicides by half, from a high of 900 to 400.

A number of gun laws were struct down over the past two or three years, including laws about carrying weapons in public places and carrying concealed weapons, which resulted in homicides going up this year.

Seems to me that gun laws work, and removing them fails.
http://i.imgur.com/i5Bu0.jpg

CheeseFrog 12-31-2012 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard (Post 19397864)
Heya Pointless, You do know the story on Mexico, Right???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 19397971)
And what exactly is a military caliber? AR-15 shoots a .223, that's a hunting caliber also.
M1 Carbine, vintage WWII is a .30 caliber pistol round and Garand uses a 30.06, then there are all the automatic weapons that use the 9mm. BTW, Mexico is a bad example of anything working for gun control.
That was meant to be read tongue-in-cheek.

Vendzilla 01-02-2013 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19398638)
Truth be told, in the past two years some of those laws have been struck down or put on hold pending constitutional review - the Supreme Court just knocked down Chicago's handgun ban.

Do you see what I'm saying here Brett? Your saying that Chicago has tough gun laws and homicides is going up, and I'm telling you that the Supreme Court just knocked down their twenty year ban on handguns and homicides have gone up.

Earlier you mentioned some city in GA where they are required to have handguns, yet it's only half as safe as my hometown that doesn't have such a silly law.

Why is it that every time you say something Brett the direct opposite is true?
The murder rate has not just jumped, it remands statistically the same since 2004, despite the unconstitutional hand gun ban.

What does the gun law in Georgia have to do with your town? More guns owned by legal citizens proved to lower the crime rate for THAT town, did Lincoln pass a gun law?


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