Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19372822)

I completely disagree.

When are you woken up in the middle of the night by an intruder, it's dark, your confused, you are incoherent because you just woke up, adrenaline is flowing, and you are in a tactical situation in which you have no information - you don't know if it's six guys with screw drivers, three guys with baseball bats, or two guys with AR15s. You can't turn on the light because it will give you away AND destroy your night vision. Then factor in a dog that is between you and the intruders, your wife that just woke up and has no idea she's just walked into the line of firing, PLUS a 12 year old kid who is generally clueless in the middle of the afternoon no less at 3am with shots going off.

Look at the guy who shot his own kid a few weeks ago. He thought someone was breaking in, turns out it was his son. His burning desire to protect himself just killed his son.

I don't live in fear. The two doors leading out are set so when they close they cannot be opened from the outside without a key, and we have an alarm system with a battery system.

Originally Posted by PornoMonster (Post 19373002)

That is because these crazies seek out places that DO NOT ALLOW GUNS.
I heard that for the batman movie there were 7 other theaters close to where the gunman lived, even bigger more frequented ones. This one does NOT allow firearms.

Most of these cases the Shooters keep shooting until the Police arrive. The police arrive the commit suicide and then the Police Write the report...

NOTHING Could of prevented the shooting of that many kids unless there were armed guards at the school. (or guns were never invented)

I say Bring ALL of our troops home and place them around in places, like we did for the airports after 911. Money we are already spending!

Originally Posted by StickyGreen (Post 19372360)

You're way off, and don't seem to understand the concept of tyranny. If a dictatorship were to take over America they would be in control of the military, not the citizens... this is why the people have the right to form militias and bare arms if necessary to preserve the free state.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 19372377)

....absolutely wrong there Tony.

In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two landmark decisions concerning the Second Amendment. In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. In dicta, the Court listed many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession as being consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[4]

You see the Second Amendment is based on preventing tyranny, any kind. So when my local or federal police stop looking and acting like Gestapo Stormtroopers:
http://blogs-images.forbes.com/erikk...11/06/swat.jpg
Then we can talk about possibly banning assault rifles.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19372813)

I have never seen such a sign. Ever.

Originally Posted by StickyGreen (Post 19372816)

You give people no credit, as if they're all just blithering idiots who couldn't possibly use a firearm correctly and efficiently. And how exactly is one kid with a gun a "tactical combat situation?"

Originally Posted by MakingItPay (Post 19373052)

Go to your mall today. Look on the door. Ask if you are allowed to carry your concealled weapon there. Better yet. Google the last few high body count shootings. Oregon, Aurora, and the recent school. See if they are "Gun Free" Zones. (hint: They all are)

Originally Posted by MakingItPay (Post 19373052)

You are the one that mentioned James Bond. Rochard, I understand you just want to feel safe, but if you don't own a gun, aren't trained, and have no desire to defend your home with one, I am not sure your opinion is an educated one. Do people accidentally shoot their friends and family? Do people sometimes accidentally run over their own children? Yes. Is owning a gun a huge responsibility? Yes.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19373145)

I do not give people credit at all. I've seen how the majority of the people drive, and that's plenty enough for me.

How is one kid with a gun a tactical situation? Any time you are faced with taking out a shooter it is in fact a tactical situation. In this case it was one "twenty year old kid" with an assault rifle in a school. If you were armed and present at the school, you would have to go room to room to find him and kill him. That's exactly what a tactical situation is.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19373152)

My wife dragged me out the mall last night and I looked for such signs. I didn't see anything. I live in California.



I do own a gun, I am trained, but I understand that defending my home with a firearm is risky at best. The odds of me being able to defend myself in the middle of the night in the dark are slim at best. In the mean time, the odds of home invasion or a robbery are so slim that is unlikely to happen - do you know anyone who's house was broken into when they were in it, or do you know anyone who's house was involved in a home invasion? I'm forty-four years old and oddly enough, I don't know one person who has ever gone through this. The odds of me shooting a family member by accident is much greater.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19372658)

I am not sure if guards at schools would be enough. Maybe if you had two or three officers at EVERY school nationwide it would be a deterrent. But that's a lot of money...



I believe it was illegal to carry at the college, but not at the local mall or movies.

But that doesn't really matter. Can you just imagine if someone was carrying a concealed weapon in the mall when a gun man attacked? Do you honestly mean to tell me that "Bob", a forty-five year old insurance salesman, is going to be able to go from shopping with his wife and kids to instantly being in a tactical situation he was never trained for? Is "Bob" going to be able to tell who the gun man is from the dozens or hundreds of shoppers when everyone is running around with their heads cut like chickens screaming? Is "Bob" really going to be able take out a gun man armed with an assault rifle at forty yards?

Is "Bob" really going to be able to take another's man's life during a tactical situation without having any time to determine if the shooter is the shooter, a police officer, or another innocent civilian who has armed himself?

We have the right to bear arms and a lot of us do, yet oddly not once at a mall or school or movies has a civilian pulled out a handgun and taken out the gunman. (I do recall the shooting at the church where the armed security guard took out the gunman.) Where are all of these people who proudly own handguns? Hiding?

Originally Posted by MakingItPay (Post 19373156)

I want the teachers to be able to have their own guns if they want them. The kid went room to room easily killing everyone. Nobody would be required to run to the aid of others. But they wouldn't all be sitting ducks. What is tragic is that nobody had any chance at all thanks to the school being "gun free" and homicidal crazy criminal friendly.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19372813)

I have never seen such a sign. Ever.

Originally Posted by Matyko (Post 19372936)

Actually this sounds pretty bad and not democratic, but it is not the government who is knocking on your door but some related agency who just check if you play by the rules. And yes, I think it is very OK to check ppl occasionally who have guns. I know it is hard to understand as the laws are totally different there and this most likely sounds Insane to you :P But here not many men keep guns at home. Also, I think they only check w ppl w [serious] gun arsenal not everyone.

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 19373016)

As usual i do appreciate your attempt of insinuating that i might be stupid - i would suggest using a little math and add up the number of inhabitants of the other countries on that image, then add up their number of deaths and put each in relation.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 19373188)

I've told Rochard to ignore me because I've proven him wrong so many times I actually feel sorry for him. Anyway, less then a week ago we had a kid walk into a mall in Portland Oregon with a Ar-15 and kill 2 people. Then the school shooting a couple days ago. You'd think the liberal media would be having a field day with this firearm killing spree epidemic?

Nope, want to know why you don't hear fuck all about the Portland Oregon Mall shooting in the national news anymore? Because the shooter was stopped by a private citizen who had carry permit. Not one national news media covered this because of their Media bias and so they completely dropped the whole Portland Oregon mall shooting.

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 19373318)

You need to get out more.

http://www.gotbaddog.com/wp-content/...treet_7806.jpg

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19373322)

I went to the mall last night, didn't see it. Went to half a dozen places outside of the mall too last night, didn't see it.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19373321)

The shooter shot himself, ending his own life.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19373298)

Yes, clearly this is the properly solution. We need our kids surrounded by firearms on a daily basis.

No fucking way in the world I would want any of my kid's teachers to have a firearm in school. Most of them are female, less than a hundred pounds, and would cry at the thought of using a gun to shoot an animal no less attempt to take a man's life.

Out of all of my kid's teachers, there was only one of them I would ever consider able to handle a firearm.

Here in the US, assault rifles are legal, twenty six and seven year old kids KILLED. Meanwhile in China, assault rifles are banned, twenty kids got "wounded". See the difference?

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19373322)

I went to the mall last night, didn't see it. Went to half a dozen places outside of the mall too last night, didn't see it.

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 19373318)

I am sorry that is how you are interpreting it, not much I can do about how you interpret my comments. I asked the question of someone yesterday, perhaps you will field it; what year were those numbers taken from and how many were suicides? I don't accept a graphic as fact just because it is on the Internet.

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 19373343)

You think it might have something to do with CA not being a right to carry state? Like I said, you need to get out more.

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 19373343)

You think it might have something to do with CA not being a right to carry state? Like I said, you need to get out more.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19373365)

I don't have a burning desire to carry a firearm with me 24/7 so I honestly have no idea where I can carry or not. My firearm goes from my house to the gun shop or to the range and back again.

I just don't live in a world where I fear being shot at the mall. The odds of me confronting a gunman in my house or out in public are slim to none, while the odds of me shooting myself or a member of my family by accident is much greater.

On average, there are 600 - 700 accidental gun deaths a year, vs what - three or four mass shootings per year?

You feel the need to protect yourself, but the odds are you'll shoot yourself or a fiend by accident more than anything else.

Originally Posted by xholly (Post 19373373)

what kind of fucked up world do you have to live in where you think giving handguns to teachers of 6 year old kids is a good idea to help prevent gun massacres rather than limiting their availability in wider society.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19373321)

The shooter shot himself, ending his own life.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19373298)

Meanwhile in China, assault rifles are banned, twenty kids got "wounded". See the difference?

Originally Posted by Evil1 (Post 19373427)

Yeah I see the difference, you cant stop bat shit insane and got lucky that one used a knife instead of things that can't be stopped under any circumstance like pipe bombs (aka grenades) or molitov's.

Do you think if guns are banned nutty motherfuckers are going to stop being insane?

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 19373343)

You think it might have something to do with CA not being a right to carry state? Like I said, you need to get out more.

Originally Posted by MakingItPay (Post 19373371)

What do you fear that made you buy a gun? They are built to kill others, right? Why do you take the risk of killing your family?

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 19373372)

Nice avoidance. You used to live in AZ, I know those signs are visible there.

Originally Posted by xholly (Post 19373373)

what kind of fucked up world do you have to live in where you think giving handguns to teachers of 6 year old kids is a good idea to help prevent gun massacres rather than limiting their availability in wider society.

Originally Posted by Evil1 (Post 19373402)

"After firing an estimated 20-60 shots, the AR-15 briefly jammed, but Roberts managed to get it working again. During that time, Nick Meli, a concealed carry permit holder, drew his Glock 22, and took aim at Roberts but did not fire since there was an innocent person behind Roberts. Meli said Roberts saw him.[3] Roberts then ran into a Macy's store across from the food court, where he committed suicide."

How come every time a cop or someone else shows up w/a gun they kill themselves?

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19373455)

That's down right scary.

I took a look at my kid's teachers and there is no way I would trust any of them with a firearm on a daily basis with my kid in the class.

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 19373187)

more guns are clearly a solution

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...D-UN-data3.jpg

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...loped-country/

but i have understood by now that many people in the US have a different mentality about that and i have given up arguing about it.

it just puzzles me that instead of being angry at the shooter that spoils it for the responsible gun owners, or having empathy for those who just lost a little child to a madman, the immediate reaction is always attacking anyone who even slightly suggests to rethink gun policies.

when owning a gun is more important than the smallest chance to prevent a tragedy like this, i think something is wrong.

but fortunately i live in places where i dont have to worry about that - i just feel sad for the parents and families that lost someone yesterday.

Originally Posted by mikesinner (Post 19373565)

When you do the math by population America is still 5-20 higher death rates than those countries but Americans are brainwashed. They are so brainwashed that they think anyone who want to get rid of guns are the ones that are brainwashed.