Federal student loans are investments ? not handouts

[Barefootsies]

Interesting perspective.

Dear Liz: I am increasingly annoyed by the entitlement attitude of today's students. Why should the taxpayers (me) pay to educate somebody else's children? I remember when there was no such thing as a student loan. If I wanted to go to college and didn't have the money for tuition, I delayed starting college until I had worked for a year and saved up the money. Many of my friends did this, as did I. Now these kids stand around with their hands out looking for somebody to bring them their education on a silver platter. I wish you would say something about this in your column.

Answer: Let's start with the obvious, which is that an education costs a heck of a lot more than it did when you were in college.

The College Board reports that a student attending an in-state, four-year public university needs to budget an average of $22,261 to pay for the 2012-13 year. Which means the total cost to get an undergraduate degree would be almost $90,000, assuming he or she can get all the required courses in four years (something that's increasingly difficult because of state budget cuts in education).

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there aren't many jobs these days that would enable someone (particularly someone without a college degree) to save the full cost of a college education in a single year. Even someone who started out with two years of community college would need to budget about $8,000 for each of those years, according to the College Board, and the total cost of a four-year degree would still be around $60,000. Some people would pay less if they got a lot of financial aid or lived at home, but any way you cut it, the tab is much, much higher than it has been in decades past.

Something else has changed since you were a student, and that's the importance of having a college education if you want to have a decent financial life and remain in the middle class. In your day, people without college educations — even those without high school diplomas — could find well-paying jobs. Those jobs have increasingly been phased out by technology or they've gone overseas. The manufacturing and technical jobs that remain often require at least some post-secondary education. Having a college degree is what having a high school diploma used to be — an essential entry-level credential in many fields.

FULL ARTICLE

[MaDalton]

thats why in many other countries education is "free"
(yeah, i know, nothing is free - it's taxpayers money)

[Tom_PM]

Evidently the first person has no intention of having a child. They love their money instead. Why should they even pay property taxes? Or sales tax? They should build a shack in the woods and spend their lives preventing the gub'ment from redistributing their wealth.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

thats why in many other countries education is "free"
(yeah, i know, nothing is free - it's taxpayers money)

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

They should build a shack in the woods and spend their lives preventing the gub'ment from redistributing their wealth.

Suck the gub'ment tittie boy....

[Tom_PM]

I'll have paid into the systems far more than I'll ever take out and I'm happy to do so because I care about other people's well being. You might call it... country first.

[Rochard]

One of my cousins just graduate from college here in California. Over a six year period he raked up a $100k in school loans. He changed majors right in the middle from engineering to finances, and maintained straight As all the way through. He worked at both Nordstroms and BOA as a teller, but also worked at the college in the student store and the admin office - as well as being a dorm supervisor the entire time. Our family business also pitched in to cover some of his expenses. He walked away owing nothing, and just snagged a high end job with a computer company making six figures.

It all depends on how bad you want it.

I'm not saying we need to do away with school loans, but it is possible to go to college without coming out in debt.

[KillerK]

Originally Posted by Rochard

One of my cousins just graduate from college here in California. Over a six year period he raked up a $100k in school loans. He changed majors right in the middle from engineering to finances, and maintained straight As all the way through. He worked at both Nordstroms and BOA as a teller, but also worked at the college in the student store and the admin office - as well as being a dorm supervisor the entire time. Our family business also pitched in to cover some of his expenses. He walked away owing nothing, and just snagged a high end job with a computer company making six figures.

It all depends on how bad you want it.

I'm not saying we need to do away with school loans, but it is possible to go to college without coming out in debt.

so he makes 2-3x what you make.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by KillerK

so he makes 2-3x what you make.

[gleem]

Originally Posted by JohnnyClips

Guaranteed student loans fuck up the entire thing and make the cost of college sky rocket

Whenever the government steps in, the quality decreases and price increases. There should be no student loans, then the price would drop from the $50,000 per year to about $10,000 per year

It's a giant scam

Bingo... there's no competition in prices if the consumer (students) don't give a shit on the price since they are getting guaranteed payment (from govt) for the product (school). The only ones that win is the school and the students that do have to pay for college on their own, and the stupid kids that graduate 200k in the hole with no hopes of ever paying it off will always lose.

Same thing with healthcare, how many American know the cost of an X-ray... no one, no one gives a shit since the govt' and insurance companies are footing the billl. How many americans know their co-pay.. 90+%. How many base their decision on buying insurance by how much the co-pay is.. 90%+.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by gleem

Bingo... there's no competition in prices if the consumer (students) don't give a shit on the price since they are getting guaranteed payment (from govt) for the product (school). The only ones that win is the school and the students that do have to pay for college on their own, and the stupid kids that graduate 200k in the hole with no hopes of ever paying it off will always lose.

Documentary - College Inc.

[Relentless]

Look at a town with a bad set of public schools. Crime is higher, prosperity of the community decreases over time, teen pregnancy is higher, violence is sharply higher.... Now extrapolate that out to a nation.

You are MUCH better off living in a nice town with higher school taxes even if you don't have a child in the schools than living in a crappy town with low school taxes overrun by delinquents with nothing to do but vandalize your home for entertainment. The same applies to our nation.

WASTE on schools needs to be curtailed completely. Profit from schools should be strictly limited. The time for allowing profiteers to run essential services like energy, education, food production and healthcare is over. The private sector does great things, but it can not be trusted to provide services necessary for basic survival and foundational prosperity on a national level.

[Brent 3dSexCash]

College is such a scam. Unless you are going to be doctor, attorney or something that requires a degree it is a complete waste of money. The only reason to go is if mommy and daddy are going to pay for it or you get a scholarship.

I always see commercials from investment companies showing parents and an infant or toddler. The premise of the commercial is always how will these two parents save up for the kids' college. It amazes me how naive parents are to this scam and that they actually put so much planning into getting their kids into a university where they get drunk and stoned for four years.

I went to college on a baseball scholarship, so I didnt have to pay a dime. Our cafeteria rivaled that of the Wynn buffet, we had a rock climbing wall and a spa. The universities have become Vegas casinos competing with each other to offer the students the best amenities. They know that kids don't really give a shit about the education. They just want nice stuff and a place to get laid and party.

They can offer them all this nice stuff because the government funds the overpriced education. The colleges build up the student's self esteem and then they get out into the real world and realize their only option with their "kick ass business degree" is go work at Red Robin for 12 an hour.

I think our next bubble is going to be the student loan one. These kids are coming out of college with 100k in debt and are completely screwed with very little chance of ever being able to pay it back.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Brent 3dSexCash

They can offer them all this nice stuff because the government funds the overpriced education. The colleges build up the student's self esteem and then they get out into the real world and realize their only option with their "kick ass business degree" is go work at Red Robin for 12 an hour.

[gleem]

Originally Posted by Relentless

Look at a town with a bad set of public schools. Crime is higher, prosperity of the community decreases over time, teen pregnancy is higher, violence is sharply higher.... Now extrapolate that out to a nation.

You are MUCH better off living in a nice town with higher school taxes even if you don't have a child in the schools than living in a crappy town with low school taxes overrun by delinquents with nothing to do but vandalize your home for entertainment. The same applies to our nation.

WASTE on schools needs to be curtailed completely. Profit from schools should be strictly limited. The time for allowing profiteers to run essential services like energy, education, food production and healthcare is over. The private sector does great things, but it can not be trusted to provide services necessary for basic survival and foundational prosperity on a national level.

Instead of giving govt' guaranteed loans for school, if they gave guaranteed loans to people with unpaid apprenticeships to pay for living expenses, guaranteed loans to startup biz etc.. that would work much better.

If the for profit schools were doing it bad and giving a bad product, people wouldn't use them, that's how capitalism works outside of mother russia my friend

[PornoMonster]

Pell Grant, Scholarships (yes do some research you can get several. $300 for just even being left handed), Working during College, Plus if you or your family saved any for you for college, the amount of Loans you have to take out would be small.

But hell if you all want higher taxes, I will go back to school on your (our, China's) dime!

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Interesting article as it really proves how a college education is not only more expensive, unavailability of jobs etc, but the obvious employed college educated columnist who can't address the original question proved the true problem.

The answer is NO and if you can't afford to go or risk defaulting on your loan? Why should I pay for it, are you special? I use to live in a State with one of the highest property taxes in the nation. They'd have a breakdown on where the taxes went as 1/3 went to the local schools. In short, I was paying $1800 a year to educate someones kids. I don't have kids.

BINGO, they didn't answer the question.

The question is about Grants and Loans that get defaulted on.

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by gleem

Instead of giving govt' guaranteed loans for school, if they gave guaranteed loans to people with unpaid apprenticeships to pay for living expenses, guaranteed loans to startup biz etc.. that would work much better. If the for profit schools were doing it bad and giving a bad product, people wouldn't use them, that's how capitalism works outside of mother russia my friend

I am all for apprenticeships... something nearly non-existent in modern America. A staple of union trades and other 'Russian communist ideology.' Higher education should be free as long as students maintain adequate grade levels based on easy to score standardized testing. It should *require* apprenticeships or internships while employers are required to demonstrate that the apprenticeship educates the student rather than just making them a temporary grunt working slave. Education in this country is only less screwed up than election policy. The two most important parts of our society are both badly broken and in need of immediate fixes.

Democracy relies on an educated and informed electorate choosing between quality candidates. We have idiots who can barely point to their own country on a map, voting in a choice between two horrible puppets. That won't last long.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Brent 3dSexCash

College is such a scam. Unless you are going to be doctor, attorney or something that requires a degree it is a complete waste of money. The only reason to go is if mommy and daddy are going to pay for it or you get a scholarship.

I always see commercials from investment companies showing parents and an infant or toddler. The premise of the commercial is always how will these two parents save up for the kids' college. It amazes me how naive parents are to this scam and that they actually put so much planning into getting their kids into a university where they get drunk and stoned for four years.

I went to college on a baseball scholarship, so I didnt have to pay a dime. Our cafeteria rivaled that of the Wynn buffet, we had a rock climbing wall and a spa. The universities have become Vegas casinos competing with each other to offer the students the best amenities. They know that kids don't really give a shit about the education. They just want nice stuff and a place to get laid and party.

They can offer them all this nice stuff because the government funds the overpriced education. The colleges build up the student's self esteem and then they get out into the real world and realize their only option with their "kick ass business degree" is go work at Red Robin for 12 an hour.

I think our next bubble is going to be the student loan one. These kids are coming out of college with 100k in debt and are completely screwed with very little chance of ever being able to pay it back.

i wouldn't say its a 'scam' but the people to blame for so many kids who think education=career ultimately are the companies/agencies/ whatever who throw away any resume where someone doesn't have a college/university education. go on any jobs site. look at the jobs that require a college/university eduction, and then look at the ones that don't. the types of jobs and pay is very different.

[Dirty Dane]

Tax payers don't pay if it's a loan.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Tax payers don't pay if it's a loan.

Yeah if they paid them back!
Don't forget pell Grants.

"With tuition rising steadily, and family income falling, the number of borrowers with federally guaranteed student loans has increased by about a third in the last five years, to more than 37 million. The number of borrowers in default has risen to about 5.9 million, and together they owe a total of $76 billion on loans. "

I am going to assume with the next quote that Colleges ALSO get aid from the federal Gov..

"Colleges with consistently high default rates can lose their eligibility for federal financial aid. Under the three-year measure, sanctions can be imposed on colleges with default rates of 30 percent or more for three consecutive years, or 40 percent for a year. Although those sanctions will not go into effect until 2014, the 218 colleges with three-year default rates over 30 percent, and the 37 with a rate of 40 percent, must submit a default-management plan to the Department of Education."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/ed...ent-loans.html

[topnotch, standup guy]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Interesting article as it really proves how a college education is not only more expensive, unavailability of jobs etc, but the obvious employed college educated columnist who can't address the original question proved the true problem.

The answer is NO and if you can't afford to go or risk defaulting on your loan? Why should I pay for it, are you special? I use to live in a State with one of the highest property taxes in the nation. They'd have a breakdown on where the taxes went as 1/3 went to the local schools. In short, I was paying $1800 a year to educate someones kids. I don't have kids.

Trust me, the kids you didn't have thank you for not having them.
.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Interesting article as it really proves how a college education is not only more expensive, unavailability of jobs etc, but the obvious employed college educated columnist who can't address the original question proved the true problem.

The answer is NO and if you can't afford to go or risk defaulting on your loan? Why should I pay for it, are you special? I use to live in a State with one of the highest property taxes in the nation. They'd have a breakdown on where the taxes went as 1/3 went to the local schools. In short, I was paying $1800 a year to educate someones kids. I don't have kids.

And so much of that money doesn't go toward actual education. The money can be spent on lodging, food and an ex girlfriend even spent hers on a downpayment on a home. When you hear the term "student loan" you assume it's paid to a college for someones education. It's not.

Plus a large percentage are spent on worthless degrees from the schools advertising on late night television that train for jobs that are saturated or non existent.


.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by KillerK

so he makes 2-3x what you make.

He makes about one fourth of what I make.

[onwebcam]

Both seemed to have things confused. There is a difference between Student loans and grants. It seems what the (Questioner) meant was grants and not loans because obviously a loan has to be paid back and the grant does not. Seems "Liz" isn't so smart.

Also I agree that government involvement increases the cost considering that if a school receives federal money they must set tuition costs at or above what the government says to. This is why schools such as UT are sitting on billions and still raising tuition costs.

University of Texas Endowment Holds $1 Billion Gold, 5% Of Its Portfolio
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertle...its-portfolio/