I must admit, your post above about the UN is the first I've read that actually holds some merit.

I am 100% behind disarming Iraq by force, and I was sorry to see 1,000,000 people protesting in london, as the article at the top of the page say's I feel they are protesting against me...

Iraq will sell weapons to terrorist groups to use against the west, it's just a shame they didn't have a failed attempt to kill the 1,000,000 demonstrators, then maybe they would understand.

yeah, let's kill everyone who opposes killing people for oil. That'll teach em. Traitors.

Because the government will be destablized thats why he wasnt taken out the first time. It will be waring tribes fighting for power. He is a piece of shit and may he die of slow painful stomach cancer but he keeps a unstable place more stable than if he wasnt there.

if you think that this really is about oil you must be really dumb, war will cost the us more that supplying free oil for a year to every resident dick head.

yep I'm a dumb dickhead, I just wanna kill every 1,000,000th person who disagrees with me so that they 'understand' :helpme

Are you volunteer to see the effects????

I know that people in Iraq will be killed because of war, they are already being tortured and killed by Saddam, gassed, amputated, hanged etc.. and not on a small scale either, 1000's, in fact more people are supposed to have been killed by Saddam than by any war in Iraq.

He needs to go, maybe then the people can be free.

and if we don't act I predict a terrorist group will buy, (maybe 3rd hand) chemical weapons or biological weapons (he has enough to kill everyone on the planet) and sept 11th will look like childs play.

Don't dismiss this, the us / uk government is so sure of this they are willing to destablize an already weak economy by spendijng billions disarming him.

And what is wrong with " disarming Iraq without force??? ( UN troops)


It sounds so old... the "WEST". There is no more such thing as the East and the west... That existed while the USSR existed. That is gone....
Iraq is less likely to sell arms to terrorists than Pakistan, Cachemire, Yemen, Saudia Arabia, Russia ( Thcechen or others), IRAN, and I will not list the ones in Africa... or the Orient ( oups, it slipped: North Korea!!!!)

the economy wasn't weak until Dubya Dumbass made it that way, but that's another argument.

In Zaire they have a dictator who kills his people. In North Korea they have a dictator who kills his people. In China they have a dictator who kills his people, and in Turkey and Uganda and Libya, Cuba, Iran, Sudan -- in fact there are tyrants and genocides all over the world, some of whom we put in power ourselves. North Korea sells more arms to our enemies in a week than Hussein could in a lifetime, seeing as how his country is completely bankrupt and starving and has been for 15-20 years.

Are we going to war with China after this? Are we going to liberate the Congo, nuke the North Koreans??

nope. they don't have any oil.

How do you suggest we disarm him without force? take a tickling stick?

we have tried for 10 years, each time the UN issues a resolution he ignores it, until the threat of force and then he complies just enough to make people waiver and make another resolution, the last one was meant to be the last in a long string, a final resolution, in cat terms he used up all his lives, but now, because he has agreed to cooperate in some ways he will get another chance.

He is playing with us and laughing as millions march against war, he is a better master of spin than many of the world leaders.

We need to get in and attack him, bomb the huge military presidents residences and the missile sites, the chemical and dual use sites, with the new technologies they apparenly have 10 times the fire power of 10 years ago

we are all tech geeks and we know how much computers have moved on in 10 years, the war would be over in weeks.

the question isn't HOW, it's WHY.

WHY should our government spend billions of OUR dollars to disarm, and risk the lives of American soldiers?

Why him and not Kim Jong Il or Zhu Rongji or Osama Bin Laden?

Propaganda???? if not, post URL or title of books stating those facts... Sounds like a movie....

Yes, he did gas a village of 5000 in the North, villagers that we arsked by CIA to overturn Sadam Hussein. When it becan=me nasty, the CIA exited and left the kurds to die...



Take the time to read: Where the fuck were the americasns????

In 1991, after the Gulf War, President Bush encouraged
Iraqis to rise up and overthrow Saddam Hussein. In the
south, among the Shia Arabs who make up some 60
percent of Iraq's population, there were revolts in
several towns; and there were also uprisings among
northern Iraq's Kurds, who make up between 15 and 20
percent of Iraq's 23 million people. The US did
nothing. The administration was alarmed at the
prospect that Iraq would be torn apart, that the Shias
would lead a bloody Islamic revolution dominated by
neighboring Shia Iran, and that the Kurds would
declare independence, provoking angry and violent
reactions from, among others, America's close ally
Turkey, with its own restive Kurdish population.
Indeed it even signaled discreetly to Saddam Hussein,
who was then rallying the Sunni Arab Iraqis, who have
always dominated his country's politics despite being
only some 15 percent of the population, that he should
go ahead and crush the rebellions.[1] With
characteristic savagery he did so.

All across Kurdish-dominated northern Iraq the Kurds
had seized control, but now Saddam's forces came
roaring back. Terrified that they would again be
gassed, approximately a million Kurds fled toward the
Iranian and Turkish borders. There they were greeted
by hordes of reporters from the world press. The sight
of desperate Kurds clinging to the mountainsides on US
television embarrassed the Bush administration, which
decided it had to do something. Saddam was told to
pull back his forces, and US and British troops
entered northern Iraq. The British and Americans then
began to patrol a no-fly zone above the region, the
refugees returned, and in this way an autonomous,
though internationally unrecognized, Kurdish entity
emerged. Today 3.6 million Kurds live here, free from
Saddam's tyranny. The US and British troops have gone
but the no-fly zone is still enforced and much of this
part of Kurdistan, which had been reduced to rubble by
Saddam especially in brutal suppression campaigns in
the late 1980s, has been rebuilt.


http://mai.flora.org/forum/39230

Are we going to war with China after this? Are we going to liberate the Congo, nuke the North Koreans??

Truthfully I think the Kereans will be next, the thing with Korea is all the UN countries can refuse to do business with them, thus crippling the country, and they will if any evidence of nuclear production for warheads comes from the fired up nuclear plant, they have spies, it will only be a matter of time for the Koreans too.

In fact Bush has major world peace plans, but I am sure he will take it steady 1 at a time...

A lot of blablabla, but no facts!

10 times the firepower of 10 years ago? Even Powell would not dare say something so stupid.

Where does he hide this? Up his ass and we will eventually nuke the US with a big fart????


Stop typing, start reading.

dont forget about the okc bombing

Yeah, because if the "American CIA" would have gotten involved, people like you would gripe about it. But when there's a clear fact that Saddam did kill them, people like you still gripe that the Americans didn't do anything to prevent it.

Propaganda???? if not, post URL or title of books stating those facts...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...man_rights.pdf

is that enough human rights abuses for you?

In fact Bush has major world peace plans, but I am sure he will take it steady 1 at a time...
----------

oh yes, the all wise and totally compassionate but tough cocaine snorting, average iq, born-with-a-silver-spoon-in-his-mouth Dubya is going to bring about lasting world peace thru sagacious use of tactical nuclear warheads.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

WAR IS PEACE. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.

:arcadefre

You need to replenish your knowledge.

Basically, all that part of the world is very scary. A lot of clans, of various religious groups, ethnics groups and so on...
Turkey, the US alley, attacked the Kurds in the North, because they were scared that they would join with the Kurds fighting for Iran , and that Iraq would become an extremist muslim country... this is a very small resume , because I know you won't even read this document ( from a rightist University) describing the whole situation at the time you refer massacres were commited ( and they were) by Sadam... But as your president knows so well, there is more than one side ( or evil) to each situation.

Try to read let's say 100 lines!

http://www.ccasls.umontreal.ca/contents/iraqi.htm

Sorry, there is no pictures....

What have you got to say about the human rights abuses then?, you challenged me to post a URL, you said"show me a published document" you can't get better than a government document.

I would post the main dossier but parts have been acused of being "ripped off" from another source, altho they stand by the contents being true and say it was only 1 page that was taken from another document.

I will read this document. It does seem legitimate and btw I never said that Sadam was a nice guy, but that posts here were exagerating facts, including the 9/11 link.

read this slowly JimboC., and try to digest it:

nobody denies that Saddam abuses human rights. however, so a couple dozen other dictators around the world, and if you wanna get down to brass tacks the USA probably has more people in prison per capita than just about anybody else because of the drug war, and your human rights and your asshole get seriously violated in prison, right?

so why should billions of our dollars be used to topple Saddam Hussein, when we've already spent so many millions keeping him in power pre-1990?

And to begin with the puppet the US installed in Chile ( killing an elected president: Salvatore Allende) General Pinochet. I think Sadam would look like an angel to compare to that man.

http://www.trentu.ca/~mneumann/pinochet.html

This document outlines the quantity of weapons, more than enough to kill the entire world population more that once, in the hands of a mad man,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...raqdossier.pdf

It paints a picture of life in Iraq it's well worth a glacing look

Which university student wrote this British document?

here's something else for you to glace at Jimbo: where do you suppose Saddam got all those nasty chemical weapons in the first place?

After Rumsfeld's visit to Baghdad in 1983, U.S.
intelligence began supplying the Iraqi dictator with
satellite photos showing Iranian deployments. Official
documents suggest that America may also have secretly
arranged for tanks and other military hardware to be shipped
to Iraq in a swap deal--American tanks to Egypt, Egyptian
tanks to Iraq. Over the protest of some Pentagon skeptics,
the Reagan administration began allowing the Iraqis to buy a
wide variety of "dual use" equipment and materials from
American suppliers. According to confidential Commerce
Department export-control documents obtained by NEWSWEEK, the shopping list included a computerized database for Saddam's Interior Ministry (presumably to help keep track of political opponents); helicopters to transport Iraqi officials;
television cameras for "video surveillance applications";
chemical-analysis equipment for the Iraq Atomic Energy
Commission (IAEC), and, most unsettling, numerous shipments
of "bacteria/fungi/protozoa" to the IAEC. According to
former officials, the bacterial cultures could be used to
make biological weapons, including anthrax. The State
Department also approved the shipment of 1.5 million atropine
injectors, for use against the effects of chemical weapons,
but the Pentagon blocked the sale. The helicopters, some
American officials later surmised, were used to spray poison
gas on the Kurds.
The United States almost certainly knew from its own
satellite imagery that Saddam was using chemical weapons
against Iranian troops. When Saddam bombed Kurdish rebels and civilians with a lethal cocktail of mustard gas, sarin, tabun
and VX in 1988, the Reagan administration first blamed Iran, before acknowledging, under pressure from congressional Democrats, that the culprits were Saddam's own forces. There was only token official protest at the time. Saddam's men were unfazed. An Iraqi audiotape, later captured by the Kurds,
records Saddam's cousin Ali Hassan al-Majid (known as Ali
Chemical) talking to his fellow officers about gassing the
Kurds. "Who is going to say anything?" he asks. "The
international community? F----k them!"

Congressional Record: September 20, 2002 (Senate)
Page S8987-S8998

exagerating facts, including the 9/11 link.

There is no 9/11 link, but what stops Iraq producing weapons and passing them on to other terroist groups, who could in turn fall into the hands of the people who were responsible for 9/11

The fact is the Afghans hate Iraq!, but they share something they both hate us!

what stops the Belgians from doing the same?

It was asked before... why is anti-war equated with anti-american?

The answer? we sold them to him unlawfully, and my country the UK had a part in it, in the city where I used to live there was a huge factory that was found to be shipping arms to Iraq illegally, is was subsiquently closed and fire bombed by people in discust, we are a very democratic above board country but there can be curruption everywhere, look at the recent news with big US companies, is most cases of course Iraq got hold of the raw materials and manufactured this stuff at "dual use" sites that were meant to be manufacturing legitimate chemicals.

Because Americans love war.

and another point why Iraq, because they have used these weapons other nations have not, and they have documents to prove that they are intent on using them again on Isreal and other nations.

Since you have proofs, can you share them with the world so that a UN resolution to attack Iraq will be adopted?

If someone has enough weapons to destroy the world, he MUST store them somewhere, right? Or maybe they also have stealth technology on those weapons?

The UN inspectors are disarming Iraq. No need to kill thousands of people in the process. It'll work, and Hussein won't have any more weapons.

And if he does not cooperate, or is proven to be hiding weapons of mass destruction, then there will be no choice but to attack Iraq. Untill then, chill.

I don't see anyone being against disarming Iraq. Everybody agrees.

Well if we knew where they were then it would be great like you say, the problems are:

Iraq is huge

They could be hidden in several buildings anywhere in or even outside of the country

When people are quesioned their families are threatened with the "acid bath"

The chemical workers are infact Iraq's own officials posing as workers

they could move the weapons weekly

enough chemicals to kill the entire population of London around 10 million people, could fit in a box the size of a 24 pack of beer.

That article says a lot.

The idiot responses to it in this thread show why europe fails.
If I lived there I guess I'd resent my betters as well.

And to the assclowns who think 9/11 isn't a reason for war, you kids don't have a clue. You're the same group of assholes who said,"russia lost a 15yr war fighting the mighty afghans, so will the US"

sorry euro-pansies, we're not russia. we're not comparable to ANY other power in all of history, not even the roman empire.
When this war starts, we're going to tell you to jump, and by god, you *will* jump for us.

and to this punk:
I say, grow up you fucking teenage punk.

Okay.

Who are the terrorists? If you can't seriously think about this, don't bother posting on the subject.

I'm canadian and I would be pissed at USA. Imagine that worldwide. Terrorists don't have to be Iraqi. They can be just pissed at how the USA is acting.