Not the last...

They will acquire a billing company soon enough and that will be the "game changer" Fabian spoke of a while back. Buying Naughty America is big, but it's not a game changer.

After a billing company is acquired, they will totally dominate and control every aspect of the industry. Well played Manwin, well played.

The one positive that can come from a CCBill acquisition is that someone may finally spend the time, effort and money to create a client-side admin area that isn't the cumbersome nonsense that is ccbill's admin interface now. Given Fabian's background with NATS, this could possibly be a positive thing.

That said, the acquisition of a billing company would indeed be a big game changer, as would getting into the 3rd party area, such as Paxum, Payoneer, etc for P2P transactions.

They own at least 2 (one should be sbw from RK i guess)

Or.... do like they did before and study the most profitable sites, buy the best of them, and cripple everyone else.

Let's bookmark this thread for when manwin buys ccbill eventually and compare.

If this ever happens I really hope the industry (minus the usual ass kissers) will unite and bring an anti-trust and possible racketeering charge against Manwin. It would be sickening to see those guys destroy the industry even more than they have by sabotaging people's businesses further for their own strategic gains.

You may get a nice admin but you won't have any sales as the scrub gets set to put you out of business (or get you to sell for peanuts). :1orglaugh

I don't know much about all of this but like mentioned above, doesn't anti trust come in to play somehow?

Oh, I never said otherwise. I'm just saying that when you compare the resources of CCBill (The Phoenix Nap, Cavecreek, Secured Servers, et al), you'd think they would have the resources available, and/or the motivation, to provide an online experience that is at least useful and user-friendly.

Let's be clear, I am not at all saying that a Manwin acquisition of anything would be a good thing for anyone other than Manwin. Why would it be? I have no basis on which to judge beyond my own experience with the brands they've acquired or managed, ALL of which have been negatively impacted for me almost immediately. But that just makes me thankful for the sites that they have not touched as every single one of them has gotten better while all the ones they managed have dropped noticeably.

Of all the properties they've acquired, none has been as big a disappointment to me as much as Twistys has. It's a real shame what has happened to that site and its program.

Not gonna happen. They will instead welcome them right in kissing ass along the way, just like they have done in every other aspect of the industry. The vast majority of the industry will wait in line like Apple fan boys in a sorry attempt to get scraps from them.

Breaking news On This

It seems that Manwin is doing the usual buy in and has purchased 101 Modeling in Canoga Park...Thats the Agency Bud Lee is with

This isn't verified yet but this particular source has never been wrong, even when I thought he/she was.

No one likes ICM but they can say they did it first...

http://www.domainstate.com/domain-ne...ta-127834.html

Also 101 Modeling is licensed and bonded giving Manwin what they need to be legit.

The MANwin with the PLANwin.

Sadly, they are the only ones. They are not actually in the industry.

Sums up the online adult industry. Most just sit and hate.

Judging by the hate of file lockers and the love for AK. Stopfilelockers should have all the funds they need. They don't.

This isn't the first time this has happened, anyone remember Acacia?

When Tubes first came out, everyone could of fought them instead of moaning, did they?

No some opened tubes.

You know my feelings about Manwin, so I'm no lover. Does anyone dig into who they really are, how big they are, what they do?

No they come to GFY and gripe.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5AurdT9GYA...00/fatlady.jpg

Manwin are 100% legal to use DMCA law as it stands, like Youtube.

It all changed when it became more profitable to sell traffic at $4 a 1,000 than send 300 to get a sign up on a paysite. Think about it.

try to push 99% of your industry out of business, turn 99% into pirates.

Under the Talent Agencies Act it would be a conflict of interest...

California Labor Code section 1700.40;

I interpret these clauses differently. The clauses forbid a talent agency to refer the talent they represent to any business which they have a financial interest in. Their examples are of businesses that the talent pays for services rendered TO them NOT businesses for which the talent provides its services to. What the law prevents is a talent agency sending a client to a photography studio they own to get head shots taken.

In the case of Manwin owning a talent agency - when Manwin sends one of their talent to a Manwin production company the purpose is for the talent to provide services and get paid for those services - totally different than what those clauses speak to.

Now if Manwin owns all or part of an STD testing facility and a talent agency, that clause forbids them to send their talent to their own testing facility.

Why would they need a billing co?
I would think they have their own gateway and just get MIDs direct with the banks, they are pretty much there already. Any other secondary billers they just squeeze hard and get the best deal possible.

You missed the "including, but not limited to" language.

But here's another example - What if The Manwin Agency has Suzie Suckems booked for a shoot with Brazzers on December 1st for a $800 B/G. Then Evil Angel calls into to their agency to book a scene for Suzie Suckems on December 1st for a B/B/G for $1100. The agent should give the booking to Evil since they are the highest paying shoot for that day.

Do you think thats going to happen ?

Thats also a breach of the fiduciary duty if the agent doesnt book the higher paying job and cancel the lower paying job.

after 10 years in this biz i would say the one who books first gets the girl. nothing pisses me off more than agencies that make girls flake on me cause someone else offered more

the 'including, but not limited to' language pertains to other similar services talent may need to pay for - they listed a bunch. i think your interpretation is wrong.

and like MaDalton said, producers hate it when they lose a booking already scheduled because a higher paid job comes in after - the agency who cares about its' customers will honor the first booking.

Which is why we never used agencies much. Go direct to the source.

i have no problems with our agencies and i rather concentrate on shooting than phoning after girls. i gladly pay for that.

The girls phoned us. We never had to bother with them being over shot by anyone else, running to a better paying gig. It was an essential key to our success.

i wish i was as successful as you and would only need to work when a girl calls us :(

if they bought a billing company this wont change shit. If they bought a bank, then...
No one pushes a lot of volume through ccbill. They just have a ton doing a little. Ccbill is for those who don't have enough transactions to acquire a merchant account & also, those that can't afford Nats.
bottom line...
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Well thats unfortunate for the producer but the agent doesnt represent producers they represent talent and owe a legal duty to them.

As for your argument, let me assure you that its not only my interpretation of the law its actually how the Labor Commissioner in California feels about the issue.

I have had several discussions with Commissioner Garcia-Earley (presently she is the Commissioner that authors the significant talent agency legal decisions in California - http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/DLSE-TACs.htm ) about this issue as well as other questionable behavior of agents in California such as fines, kills fees, the cashing of performer's checks ect...

Her position is that anything an agent does that violates or undermines the fiduciary duty owed to the talent is violation of the Talent Agencies Act.

Anyone that has a question about a certain practice can write to her and ask for an advisory letter. When she has time she will issue a public letter stating the DLSE position on a particular practice... http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/OpinionLetters-bySubject.htm

thank god over here the agency business is not regulated - everyone can do one and the good ones survive. some of the agencies we work with are in the business for more than 10 years.

also WE do pay the agencies here, they work for us. the girls dont pay anything to the agencies.

and if an agency would cancel a confirmed shoot cause they can book the girl somewhere else for more money the same day - and i find that out - i would never work with that agency again.

me thinks you have given too much power to agencies in LA when they dictate the prices and can even cancel confirmed shoots over 50 bucks more somewhere else.

eventually LA needs a new agency :2 cents:

if it hurts derek then I'm all for it...

(Direct Personal Reasons)

when had loads of them phoning us. How do you think agents get them. Advertise and they will come. Even the ones you pay agents for. :thumbsup

DukeSkywalker :thumbsup

pornlaw unless someone does something the law means little. Will it need a civil of criminal prosecution?

California removed from the law the criminal prosecution of agents years ago.

Its only civil enforcement through the Labor Commissioner's Office (DLSE) now.

So who has the balls to fight?

Why do they need a testing company and modeling agency? And owning a billing company wouldn't necessarily be to use that billing for their sites.

You're not seeing the larger picture.

Yes, a bank would be huge. And it is a possibility. Buying Epoch would be huge. Netbilling would be huge. CCbill would be too. Or what about all of them? :helpme Even though there are a lot of smaller sites using CCbill, Ron doesn't have a private jet because they are a small company. They are making serious cheese and have access to an insane amount of data. All those little sales, across all the little companies, adds up to a lot of money.

Processing is the only thing left for them to get their hands on, be it billing companies or a bank. Can't think of anything else that would be a "game changer." And I also don't expect them to stop at just one of them. They are playing to win and completely dominate every aspect of the industry.

I don't think Mitch would sell NetBilling.

You just don't sell a company when you are doing what you love AND it's making so much money.
You only sell when you either don't really like it, or it's losing ground.

Netbilling is doing too well.

Now as for CC Bill, Epoch, and the rest...they are up for grabs I'm sure.
I don't know for sure...but I'd bet that online piracy and all the hundreds of sites and companies that have been crippled by it has cost a company like CC Bill a lot of money

Depends on the price.

yup I agree with paul. I love what I do & make a very good living, but offered the right price & I'm riding off into the sunset.
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everyone in here would do that and everyone would sell to Manwin if they got good offer from them. no exceptions.

Very true. That person is known as a booking agent not a talent agent.

Often production managers are booking agents.

But when you start offering a performer's services to work for other production studios you then become a talent agent.

FTV :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

I wouldn't. And not because it's Manwin.

I actually enjoy what I do and don't want to stop. I look forward to my work everyday.

I love what I do, too. But, for me, I came into this adult industry rather late in life and had done quite a lot before ever selling porn. And I have things I want to do that involve music, history, travel, etc etc. So porn IS a "stepping stone" for me...

Having said that, if the price isn't right I would never sell because I have a little cash register called Mister Peabody World and it goes cha-ching even while I sleep. I'd hire someone to run it before selling it for a low price, THEN go off to do something else, using MRPW as a funding source.

So there. LOL

Exactly and some are mafia related.. just wait until the real mob guys get pushed out by Manwin watch what happens then.

I've always heard that. But the entire time I have been around the adult industry starting back with strip clubs and escorts in the 1980's right on through until today...I have never met one guy who was mob related in this business. I've known the owners of most companies...none of them were in the mob. Hell, very few of them I can think of who are even Italian.

I worked for years for Harry Mohney, owner of the Deja Vu chain, and at one point he was as mobbed up as it gets. I also worked over a decade for a woman that was a close friend/business partner of Reuben Sturman, and his reputation speaks for itself.

It was said that movies like Deep Throat and Behind the Green Door made WAY more money than reported in their theatrical runs because the mob owned adult theaters that ran them severely under-reported the income. I don't think it was nearly as prevalent once the online industry took over porn, but in the early days of adult bookstores/strip clubs/porn theaters the mob absolutely had a huge hand in them...

3.5 mill & I'd sell to manwin hands down.
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maffia dont control shit. Remember that episode of the sopranos when they tried to shake down starbucks & failed?
thats how it is.
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