At Last Night?s Debate: Romney Told 27 Myths In 38 Minutes - GoFuckYourself.com

BFT3K · 10-04-2012, 07:28 AM

Pundits from both sides of the aisle have lauded Mitt Romney?s strong debate performance, praising his preparedness and ability to challenge President Obama?s policies and accomplishments. But Romney only accomplished this goal by repeatedly misleading viewers. He spoke for 38 minutes of the 90 minute debate and told at least 27 myths:

1) ?Get us energy independent, North American energy independent. That creates about 4 million jobs?. Romney?s plan for ?energy independence? actually relies heavily on a study that assumes the U.S. continues with fuel efficiency standards set by the Obama administration. For instance, he uses Citigroup research based off the assumption that ??the United States will continue with strict fuel economy standards that will lower its oil demand.? Since he promises to undo the Obama administration?s new fuel efficiency standards, he would cut oil consumption savings of 2 million barrels per day by 2025.

2) ?I don?t have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don?t have a tax cut of a scale that you?re talking about.? A Tax Policy Center analysis of Romney?s proposal for a 20 percent across-the-board tax cut in all federal income tax rates, eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax, eliminating the estate tax and other tax reductions, would reduce federal revenue $480 billion in 2015. This amount to $5 trillion over the decade.

3) ?My view is that we ought to provide tax relief to people in the middle class. But I?m not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high-income people.? If Romney hopes to provide tax relief to the middle class, then his $5 trillion tax cut would add to the deficit. There are not enough deductions in the tax corde that primarily benefit rich people to make his math work.

4) ?My - my number-one principal is, there will be no tax cut that adds to the deficit. I want to underline that: no tax cut that adds to the deficit.? As the Tax Policy Center concluded, Romney?s plan can?t both exempt middle class families from tax cuts and remain revenue neutral. ?He?s promised all these things and he can?t do them all. In order for him to cover the cost of his tax cut without adding to the deficit, he?d have to find a way to raise taxes on middle income people or people making less than $200,000 a year,? the Center found.

5) ?I will not under any circumstances raise taxes on middle-income families. I will lower taxes on middle-income families. Now, you cite a study. There are six other studies that looked at the study you describe and say it?s completely wrong.? The studies Romney cites actually further prove that Romney would, in fact, have to raise taxes on the middle class if he were to keep his promise not to lose revenue with his tax rate reduction.

6) ?I saw a study that came out today that said you?re going to raise taxes by $3,000 to $4,000 on middle-income families.? Romney is pointing to this study from the American Enterprise Institute. It actually found that rather than raise taxes to pay down the debt, the Obama administration?s policies ? those contained directly in his budget ? would reduce the share of taxes that go toward servicing the debt by $1,289.89 per taxpayer in the $100,000 to $200,000 range.

7) ?And the reason is because small business pays that individual rate; 54 percent of America?s workers work in businesses that are taxed not at the corporate tax rate, but at the individual tax rate?.97 percent of the businesses are not ? not taxed at the 35 percent tax rate, they?re taxed at a lower rate. But those businesses that are in the last 3 percent of businesses happen to employ half ? half of all the people who work in small business.? Far less than half of the people affected by the expiration of the upper income tax cuts get any of their income at all from a small businesses. And those people could very well be receiving speaking fees or book royalties, which qualify as ?small business income? but don?t have a direct impact on job creation. It?s actually hard to find a small business who think that they will be hurt if the marginal tax rate on income earned above $250,000 per year is increased.

8) ?Mr. President, all of the increase in natural gas and oil has happened on private land, not on government land. On government land, your administration has cut the number of permits and licenses in half.? Oil production from federal lands is higher, not lower: Production from federal lands is up slightly in 2011 when compared to 2007. And the oil and gas industry is sitting on 7,000 approved permits to drill, that it hasn?t begun exploring or developing.

9) ?The president?s put it in place as much public debt ? almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined.? This is not even close to being true. When Obama took office, the national debt stood at $10.626 trillion. Now the national debt is over $16 trillion. That $5.374 trillion increase is nowhere near as much debt as all the other presidents combined.

10) ?That?s why the National Federation of Independent Businesses said your plan will kill 700,000 jobs. I don?t want to kill jobs in this environment.? That study, produced by a right-wing advocacy organization, doesn?t analyze what Obama has actually proposed.
11) ?What we do have right now is a setting where I?d like to bring money from overseas back to this country.? Romney?s plan to shift the country to a territorial tax system would allow corporations to do business and make profits overseas without ever being taxed on it in the United States. This encourages American companies to invest abroad and could cost the country up to 800,000 jobs.

12) ?I would like to take the Medicaid dollars that go to states and say to a state, you?re going to get what you got last year, plus inflation, plus 1 percent, and then you?re going to manage your care for your poor in the way you think best.? Sending federal Medicaid funding to the states in the form of a block grant woud significantly reduce federal spending for Medicaid because the grant would not keep up with projected health care costs. A CBO estimate of a very similar proposal from Paul Ryan found that federal spending would be ?35 percent lower in 2022 and 49 percent lower in 2030 than current projected federal spending? and as a result ?states would face significant challenges in achieving sufficient cost savings through efficiencies to mitigate the loss of federal funding.? ?To maintain current service levels in the Medicaid program, states would probably need to consider additional changes, such as reducing their spending on other programs or raising additional revenues,? the CBO found.

13) ?I want to take that $716 billion you?ve cut and put it back into Medicare?. But the idea of cutting $716 billion from Medicare to be able to balance the additional cost of Obamacare is, in my opinion, a mistake. There?s that number again. Romney is claiming that Obamacare siphons off $716 billion from Medicare, to the detriment of beneficiaries. In actuality, that money is saved primarily through reducing over-payments to insurance companies under Medicare Advantage, not payments to beneficiaries. Paul Ryan?s budget plan keeps those same cuts, but directs them toward tax cuts for the rich and deficit reduction.

BFT3K · 10-04-2012, 07:28 AM

14) ?What I support is no change for current retirees and near-retirees to Medicare.? Here is how Romney?s Medicare plan will affect current seniors: 1) by repealing Obamacare, the 16 million seniors receiving preventive benefits without deductibles or co-pays and are saving $3.9 billion on prescription drugs will see a cost increase, 2) ?premium support? will increase premiums for existing beneficiaries as private insurers lure healthier seniors out of the traditional Medicare program, 3) Romney/Ryan would also lower Medicaid spending significantly beginning next year, shifting federal spending to states and beneficiaries, and increasing costs for the 9 million Medicare recipients who are dependent on Medicaid.

15) ?Number two is for people coming along that are young, what I do to make sure that we can keep Medicare in place for them is to allow them either to choose the current Medicare program or a private plan. Their choice. They get to choose ? and they?ll have at least two plans that will be entirely at no cost to them.? The Medicare program changes for everyone, even people who choose to remain in the traditional fee-for-service. Rather than relying on a guaranteed benefit, all beneficiaries will receive a premium support credit of $7,500 on average in 2023 to purchase coverage in traditional Medicare or private insurance. But that amount will only grow at a rate of GDP plus 1.5 percentage points and will not keep up with health care costs. So while the federal government will spend less on the program, seniors will pay more in premiums.

16) ?And, by the way the idea came not even from Paul Ryan or ? or Senator Wyden, who?s the co-author of the bill with ? with Paul Ryan in the Senate, but also it came from Bill ? Bill Clinton?s chief of staff.? Romney has rejected the Ryan/Wyden approach ? which does not cap the growth of the ?premium support? subsidy. Bill Clinton and his commission also voted down these changes to the Medicare program.

17) ?Well, I would repeal and replace it. We?re not going to get rid of all regulation. You have to have regulation. And there are some parts of Dodd-Frank that make all the sense in the world.? Romney has previously called for full repeal of Dodd-Frank, a law whose specific purpose is to regulate banks. MF Global?s use of customer funds to pay for its own trading losses is just one bit of proof that the financial industry isn?t responsible enough to protect consumers without regulation.

18) ?But I wouldn?t designate five banks as too big to fail and give them a blank check. That?s one of the unintended consequences of Dodd-Frank? We need to get rid of that provision because it?s killing regional and small banks. They?re getting hurt.? The law merely says that the biggest, systemically risky banks need to abide by more stringent regulations. If those banks fail, they will be unwound by a new process in the Dodd-Frank law that protects taxpayers from having to pony up for a bailout.

19) ?And, unfortunately, when ? when ? when you look at Obamacare, the Congressional Budget Office has said it will cost $2,500 a year more than traditional insurance. So it?s adding to cost.? Obamacare will actually provide millions of families with tax credits to make health care more affordable.

20) ?[I]t puts in place an unelected board that?s going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have. I don?t like that idea.? The Board, or IPAB is tasked with making binding recommendations to Congress for lowering health care spending, should Medicare costs exceed a target growth rate. Congress can accept the savings proposal or implement its own ideas through a super majority. The panel?s plan will modify payments to providers but it cannot ?include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums?increase Medicare beneficiary cost-sharing (including deductibles, coinsurance, and co- payments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria? (Section 3403 of the ACA). Relying on health care experts rather than politicians to control health care costs has previously attracted bipartisan support and even Ryan himself proposed two IPAB-like structures in a 2009 health plan.

21) ?Right now, the CBO says up to 20 million people will lose their insurance as Obamacare goes into effect next year. And likewise, a study by McKinsey and Company of American businesses said 30 percent of them are anticipating dropping people from coverage.? The Affordable Care Act would actually expand health care coverage to 30 million Americans, despite Romney fear mongering. According to CBO director Douglas Elmendorf, 3 million or less people would leave employer-sponsored health insurance coverage as a result of the law.

22) ?I like the way we did it [health care] in Massachusetts?What were some differences? We didn?t raise taxes.? Romney raised fees, but he can claim that he didn?t increase taxes because the federal government funded almost half of his reforms.

23) ?It?s why Republicans said, do not do this, and the Republicans had ? had the plan. They put a plan out. They put out a plan, a bipartisan plan. It was swept aside.? The Affordable Care Act incorporates many Republican ideas including the individual mandate, state-based health care exchanges, high-risk insurance pools, and modified provisions that allow insurers to sell policies in multiple states. Republicans never offered a united bipartisan alternative.

24) ?Preexisting conditions are covered under my plan.? Only people who are continuously insured would not be discriminated against because they suffer from pre-existing conditions. This protection would not be extended to people who are currently uninsured.

25) ?In one year, you provided $90 billion in breaks to the green energy world. Now, I like green energy as well, but that?s about 50 years? worth of what oil and gas receives.? The $90 billion was given out over several years and included loans, loan guarantees and grants through the American Recovery Act. $23 billion of the $90 billion ?went toward ?clean coal,? energy-efficiency upgrades, updating the electricity grid and environmental clean-up, largely for old nuclear weapons sites.?

26) ?I think about half of [the green firms Obama invested in], of the ones have been invested in have gone out of business. A number of them happened to be owned by people who were contributors to your campaigns.? As of late last year, only ?three out of the 26 recipients of 1705 loan guarantees have filed for bankruptcy, with losses estimated at just over $600 million.?

27) ?If the president?s reelected you?ll see dramatic cuts to our military.? Romney is referring to the sequester, which his running mate Paul Ryan supported. Obama opposes the military cuts and has asked Congress to formulate a balanced approach that would avoid the trigger. (source)

ShowMe69 · 10-04-2012, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Pundits from both sides of the aisle have lauded Mitt Romney?s strong debate performance, praising his preparedness and ability to challenge President Obama?s policies and accomplishments. But Romney only accomplished this goal by repeatedly misleading viewers. He spoke for 38 minutes of the 90 minute debate and told at least 27 myths:

1) ?Get us energy independent, North American energy independent. That creates about 4 million jobs?. Romney?s plan for ?energy independence? actually relies heavily on a study that assumes the U.S. continues with fuel efficiency standards set by the Obama administration. For instance, he uses Citigroup research based off the assumption that ??the United States will continue with strict fuel economy standards that will lower its oil demand.? Since he promises to undo the Obama administration?s new fuel efficiency standards, he would cut oil consumption savings of 2 million barrels per day by 2025.

2) ?I don?t have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don?t have a tax cut of a scale that you?re talking about.? A Tax Policy Center analysis of Romney?s proposal for a 20 percent across-the-board tax cut in all federal income tax rates, eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax, eliminating the estate tax and other tax reductions, would reduce federal revenue $480 billion in 2015. This amount to $5 trillion over the decade.

3) ?My view is that we ought to provide tax relief to people in the middle class. But I?m not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high-income people.? If Romney hopes to provide tax relief to the middle class, then his $5 trillion tax cut would add to the deficit. There are not enough deductions in the tax corde that primarily benefit rich people to make his math work.

4) ?My - my number-one principal is, there will be no tax cut that adds to the deficit. I want to underline that: no tax cut that adds to the deficit.? As the Tax Policy Center concluded, Romney?s plan can?t both exempt middle class families from tax cuts and remain revenue neutral. ?He?s promised all these things and he can?t do them all. In order for him to cover the cost of his tax cut without adding to the deficit, he?d have to find a way to raise taxes on middle income people or people making less than $200,000 a year,? the Center found.

5) ?I will not under any circumstances raise taxes on middle-income families. I will lower taxes on middle-income families. Now, you cite a study. There are six other studies that looked at the study you describe and say it?s completely wrong.? The studies Romney cites actually further prove that Romney would, in fact, have to raise taxes on the middle class if he were to keep his promise not to lose revenue with his tax rate reduction.

6) ?I saw a study that came out today that said you?re going to raise taxes by $3,000 to $4,000 on middle-income families.? Romney is pointing to this study from the American Enterprise Institute. It actually found that rather than raise taxes to pay down the debt, the Obama administration?s policies ? those contained directly in his budget ? would reduce the share of taxes that go toward servicing the debt by $1,289.89 per taxpayer in the $100,000 to $200,000 range.

7) ?And the reason is because small business pays that individual rate; 54 percent of America?s workers work in businesses that are taxed not at the corporate tax rate, but at the individual tax rate?.97 percent of the businesses are not ? not taxed at the 35 percent tax rate, they?re taxed at a lower rate. But those businesses that are in the last 3 percent of businesses happen to employ half ? half of all the people who work in small business.? Far less than half of the people affected by the expiration of the upper income tax cuts get any of their income at all from a small businesses. And those people could very well be receiving speaking fees or book royalties, which qualify as ?small business income? but don?t have a direct impact on job creation. It?s actually hard to find a small business who think that they will be hurt if the marginal tax rate on income earned above $250,000 per year is increased.

8) ?Mr. President, all of the increase in natural gas and oil has happened on private land, not on government land. On government land, your administration has cut the number of permits and licenses in half.? Oil production from federal lands is higher, not lower: Production from federal lands is up slightly in 2011 when compared to 2007. And the oil and gas industry is sitting on 7,000 approved permits to drill, that it hasn?t begun exploring or developing.

9) ?The president?s put it in place as much public debt ? almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined.? This is not even close to being true. When Obama took office, the national debt stood at $10.626 trillion. Now the national debt is over $16 trillion. That $5.374 trillion increase is nowhere near as much debt as all the other presidents combined.

10) ?That?s why the National Federation of Independent Businesses said your plan will kill 700,000 jobs. I don?t want to kill jobs in this environment.? That study, produced by a right-wing advocacy organization, doesn?t analyze what Obama has actually proposed.
11) ?What we do have right now is a setting where I?d like to bring money from overseas back to this country.? Romney?s plan to shift the country to a territorial tax system would allow corporations to do business and make profits overseas without ever being taxed on it in the United States. This encourages American companies to invest abroad and could cost the country up to 800,000 jobs.

12) ?I would like to take the Medicaid dollars that go to states and say to a state, you?re going to get what you got last year, plus inflation, plus 1 percent, and then you?re going to manage your care for your poor in the way you think best.? Sending federal Medicaid funding to the states in the form of a block grant woud significantly reduce federal spending for Medicaid because the grant would not keep up with projected health care costs. A CBO estimate of a very similar proposal from Paul Ryan found that federal spending would be ?35 percent lower in 2022 and 49 percent lower in 2030 than current projected federal spending? and as a result ?states would face significant challenges in achieving sufficient cost savings through efficiencies to mitigate the loss of federal funding.? ?To maintain current service levels in the Medicaid program, states would probably need to consider additional changes, such as reducing their spending on other programs or raising additional revenues,? the CBO found.

13) ?I want to take that $716 billion you?ve cut and put it back into Medicare?. But the idea of cutting $716 billion from Medicare to be able to balance the additional cost of Obamacare is, in my opinion, a mistake. There?s that number again. Romney is claiming that Obamacare siphons off $716 billion from Medicare, to the detriment of beneficiaries. In actuality, that money is saved primarily through reducing over-payments to insurance companies under Medicare Advantage, not payments to beneficiaries. Paul Ryan?s budget plan keeps those same cuts, but directs them toward tax cuts for the rich and deficit reduction.

Thank god somebody else reads

Brujah · 10-04-2012, 07:35 AM

You don't have to tell the truth, to win a debate or be the top voice in media.

baddog · 10-04-2012, 08:09 AM

How many myths did Obama tell?

sperbonzo · 10-04-2012, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

How many myths did Obama tell?

His source is THINKPROGRESS.org

They aren't exactly what you would call "balanced and objective"

.

.

Dvae · 10-04-2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Pundits from both sides of the aisle have lauded Mitt Romney?s strong debate performance, praising his preparedness and ability to challenge President Obama?s policies and accomplishments. But Romney only accomplished this goal by repeatedly misleading viewers. He spoke for 38 minutes of the 90 minute debate and told at least 27 myths:

Nice copy and paste job slapass!

2012 · 10-04-2012, 09:46 AM

madm1k3 · 10-04-2012, 09:56 AM

I will say that Romney changed a lot of his positions again, its almost as if he changes positions depending on the audience of the debate. I still can't believe that he has been running for two years and can't name a tax loophole or deduction he would eliminate and the media is letting him get away with it

Obama lied about the banks, like a typical corporate lackey

directfiesta · 10-04-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madm1k3

I will say that Romney changed a lot of his positions again, its almost as if he changes positions depending on the audience of the debate. I still can't believe that he has been running for two years and can't name a tax loophole or deduction he would eliminate and the media is letting him get away with it

Obama lied about the banks, like a typical corporate lackey

Amazing Obama did not throw a one-liner yesterday ....

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madm1k3

I will say that Romney changed a lot of his positions again,

Which positions did Romney change in the debate last night?

Do you mean the ones that the Democrats have tried to claim were his? Or his actual positions that he has had for the last few years as he aspired to be President?

Do you have a link to some of the positions he has espoused during the campaign that he suddenly changed last night? The actual links to Romney himself posting those positions as part of his overall plan?

Seems to me that our idea of Romney has been one that has been shaped by his political opponents and not the things he has actually put forward in the campaign.
And last night we saw Romney finally onstage with Obama talking about what he actually means as opposed to it being filtered by the media or Obama's campaign surrogates.

Obama tried to make the debate about Romney's record.

Truth is, this election isn't about Romney. It's about Obama's record as President of the United States for the last 3 3/4 years and where we are at as a country.

The liberal media tried to make Romney look bad even in his debate prep. They reported from "inside sources" that Romney was working on "zingers". LOL! What a crock of lies.

Romney was respectful, forceful, and knowledgeable. And he refused to let Obama make claims about his own (Romney's) plan. There were no "zingers".

Just calm and knowledgeable laying out of his plan. Obama on the other hand had NO plan. NO vision. He looked like a deer in the headlights & as if the week he spent here in Vegas for preparation was totally wasted.

I was watching the debate on CNN. They had that little squiggly line thing at the bottom showing what people agreed with and what they disagreed with. Before the debate, all the people on CNN were breathless and talking about how high Obama scored on those squiggly lines in the last debates against McCain...because they were anticipating their "after-debate" coverage and how high Obama was supposed to score.
Well, it turned out Romney scored the vast majority of "high marks" for what he had to say.

Screwed everything up for CNN's after-debate coverage. lol
I thought James Carville was gonna kill somebody.

Then I tuned into MSNBC.

It was like watching a funeral. Chris Matthews was in shock. Lawrence ODonnell was in the "Spin Room" with David Axelrod trying to explain everything away.

Fox News was all breathless and shit. It was kinda like they had just been swept off their feet by their handsome prince.

My final take on the debate was this:
Romney is a leader, that's what he does. He came into that debate ready to rumble.
Obama is arrogant and cocky. He has started to believe his own press and thought he could just walk in, flash his big smile and "win".

Neither of them will give us "freedom".

Take just 2 minutes and check out http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/

It's time to get rid of Republicans and Democrats. But make no mistake...Romney beat Obama in the debate last night.

crockett · 10-04-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

His source is THINKPROGRESS.org

They aren't exactly what you would call "balanced and objective"

.

.

Is the NY Times any better for yea?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/op...al-debate.html

spazlabz · 10-04-2012, 11:22 AM

well yeah of course he lied.... Obama lied. I could tell because they are politicians and on my TV

sperbonzo · 10-04-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Which positions did Romney change in the debate last night?

Do you mean the ones that the Democrats have tried to claim were his? Or his actual positions that he has had for the last few years as he aspired to be President?

Do you have a link to some of the positions he has espoused during the campaign that he suddenly changed last night? The actual links to Romney himself posting those positions as part of his overall plan?

Seems to me that our idea of Romney has been one that has been shaped by his political opponents and not the things he has actually put forward in the campaign.
And last night we saw Romney finally onstage with Obama talking about what he actually means as opposed to it being filtered by the media or Obama's campaign surrogates.

Obama tried to make the debate about Romney's record.

Truth is, this election isn't about Romney. It's about Obama's record as President of the United States for the last 3 3/4 years and where we are at as a country.

The liberal media tried to make Romney look bad even in his debate prep. They reported from "inside sources" that Romney was working on "zingers". LOL! What a crock of lies.

Romney was respectful, forceful, and knowledgeable. And he refused to let Obama make claims about his own (Romney's) plan. There were no "zingers".

Just calm and knowledgeable laying out of his plan. Obama on the other hand had NO plan. NO vision. He looked like a deer in the headlights & as if the week he spent here in Vegas for preparation was totally wasted.

I was watching the debate on CNN. They had that little squiggly line thing at the bottom showing what people agreed with and what they disagreed with. Before the debate, all the people on CNN were breathless and talking about how high Obama scored on those squiggly lines in the last debates against McCain...because they were anticipating their "after-debate" coverage and how high Obama was supposed to score.
Well, it turned out Romney scored the vast majority of "high marks" for what he had to say.

Screwed everything up for CNN's after-debate coverage. lol
I thought James Carville was gonna kill somebody.

Then I tuned into MSNBC.

It was like watching a funeral. Chris Matthews was in shock. Lawrence ODonnell was in the "Spin Room" with David Axelrod trying to explain everything away.

Fox News was all breathless and shit. It was kinda like they had just been swept off their feet by their handsome prince.

My final take on the debate was this:
Romney is a leader, that's what he does. He came into that debate ready to rumble.
Obama is arrogant and cocky. He has started to believe his own press and thought he could just walk in, flash his big smile and "win".

Neither of them will give us "freedom".

Take just 2 minutes and check out http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/

It's time to get rid of Republicans and Democrats. But make no mistake...Romney beat Obama in the debate last night.

My respect sir. Great post,

(especially "Take just 2 minutes and check out http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/ It's time to get rid of Republicans and Democrats.")

I saw all the same reactions on the networks that you did. It was hilariousl.

.

.

CDSmith · 10-04-2012, 11:41 AM

So, who was the clear winner?

ha

2MuchMark · 10-04-2012, 11:44 AM

Romney is a big fat fucking liar and piece of shit scumbag, and everyone knows it. Unfortunately, he did really well at the debates last night despite all of his lies. I didn't check the polls today but it doesn't matter - I'm sure he's way up. He can flat out tell you that the sun revolves around the earth, and the sheeple will believe him. The lack of critical thinkers makes this presidential race much closer than it should ever be. What a disaster.

baddog · 10-04-2012, 11:48 AM

Fucking Prince; get over it. Obama is inept and a liar. At least Romney has a history of getting shit done.

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Romney is a big fat fucking liar and piece of shit scumbag, and everyone knows it. Unfortunately, he did really well at the debates last night despite all of his lies. I didn't check the polls today but it doesn't matter - I'm sure he's way up. He can flat out tell you that the sun revolves around the earth, and the sheeple will believe him. The lack of critical thinkers makes this presidential race much closer than it should ever be. What a disaster.

Thank you for that careful thought out critique of the debate.
Brother..you are truly politically blind and caught up in the "our side" mentality.

And don't take what I'm saying personally. Politics is so incendiary that people get angry about it at each other.

I'm simply saying that just like Obama last night in the debate...you are trying to paint a picture of Romney and define him by what you've been told by the media.
To make your "argument", you need to find links to what Romney is "lying" about.

Remember...he's not the President. He hasn't done anything to lie about. Obama has.

This election is about the last 4 years and what direction we will go in next. Romney can not lie about things he has not done. Obama on the other hand has to run on his actual record as President.

Rochard · 10-04-2012, 11:58 AM

Politics has changed. It's very easy for a politician to sit there and make bold promises and cite "studies", but now... We have nearly instant fact checking. It's not like it was twenty years ago where a reporter would have to spend days verifying facts and by that time no one really cared any more. Now we have near instant fact checking, and we can directly check any source anyone mentions.

Has there been any fact checking on what Obama said?

Vendzilla · 10-04-2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Romney is a big fat fucking liar and piece of shit scumbag, and everyone knows it. Unfortunately, he did really well at the debates last night despite all of his lies. I didn't check the polls today but it doesn't matter - I'm sure he's way up. He can flat out tell you that the sun revolves around the earth, and the sheeple will believe him. The lack of critical thinkers makes this presidential race much closer than it should ever be. What a disaster.

He did really well because Obama was debating on his record.

Obama's crowning achievement was Obamacare which he had to admit he got the idea from Romney.

spazlabz · 10-04-2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Romney is a big fat fucking liar and piece of shit scumbag, and everyone knows it. Unfortunately, he did really well at the debates last night despite all of his lies. I didn't check the polls today but it doesn't matter - I'm sure he's way up. He can flat out tell you that the sun revolves around the earth, and the sheeple will believe him. The lack of critical thinkers makes this presidential race much closer than it should ever be. What a disaster.

Ya know what? I am on your side except for the sheeple reference I think what you said may have been a bit heated but that doesnt mean I disagree with it. But I am going to contrast it with what I saw in last night's debate from Obama, please indulge me.

Obama's body language throughout the debate was a perfect representation of his behavior during the 4 years he has been in office. He looked submissive to Romney, befuddled like he had no idea what he should do or say and ultimately he looked WEAK

A couple of years ago I voiced my opinion that Obama could not lead a girl scout troop across the street to sell cookies and I stand by that. He is an amazing orator that, god help me, inspires me every time the man gives a speech. But words without action and the balls to stand by your beliefs and fight for them are worse than meaningless, they are hurtful. He has damaged the democratic party moving it so far right it is indistinguishable from Reagan era conservatives. If he was a strong forceful leader the face of America would look a whole lot differently but he's not. He is a pathetic pandering kiss ass with full pockets and a big smile......and you would not believe how insanely liberal I am. I cannot stand Obama but he is better than Romney. Just not by much.

Even left leaning fact checkers point out that Obama lied and exaggerated the truth last night, the sad part is that even the force of the bully pulpit behind him he was absolutely ineffectual. Obama gets very little respect in the US except from people with a vested interest in his success because he does not stand up to anyone. He is an appeaser, a peace maker everyone's best buddy and exactly what this country does not need right now. The only bigger mistake than re-electing Obama would be electing Mitt instead.

Brujah · 10-04-2012, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

His source is THINKPROGRESS.org
They aren't exactly what you would call "balanced and objective"

So you mean ThinkProgress told 27 lies in 1 article? Wouldn't that be easy enough to disprove? Disprove one of them for us.

Rochard · 10-04-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I was watching the debate on CNN. They had that little squiggly line thing at the bottom showing what people agreed with and what they disagreed with. Before the debate, all the people on CNN were breathless and talking about how high Obama scored on those squiggly lines in the last debates against McCain...because they were anticipating their "after-debate" coverage and how high Obama was supposed to score.
Well, it turned out Romney scored the vast majority of "high marks" for what he had to say.

I watched on CNN and noticed the same thing - approval was higher for Mittens. However, the reason why is both plain and simple... Obama has to stick to reality and his record of the past four years (which looks disappointing on paper really) while Romney can say "I"m going to fix this and fix that" - In other words, Obama needs is grounded to reality while Romney can make the same big promises that Obama made four years when he was running.

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Has there been any fact checking on what Obama said?

If there has it has been marginalized that most of us never hear it.

If you go by what we see on ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, and CNN...Obama has only done "good" and has never made a mistake. If you go by Fox, he can't do anything right. lol

But no...the media has spent the entire campaign "fact checking" every word that comes out of Romney's mouth and giving massive coverage to his taxes and his dog on the roof and when he bullied another kid in 1960 (52 years ago).
But holding Obama responsible for ANYTHING? Nope. It's always the Republicans fault and those damnable filibusters that they threaten with.

tony286 · 10-04-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

If there has it has been marginalized that most of us never hear it.

If you go by what we see on ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, and CNN...Obama has only done "good" and has never made a mistake. If you go by Fox, he can't do anything right. lol

But no...the media has spent the entire campaign "fact checking" every word that comes out of Romney's mouth and giving massive coverage to his taxes and his dog on the roof and when he bullied another kid in 1960 (52 years ago).
But holding Obama responsible for ANYTHING? Nope. It's always the Republicans fault and those damnable filibusters that they threaten with.

Really everything he says isnt questioned. Do yourself a favor listen to music during the day instead of pundits. lol http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/

spazlabz · 10-04-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

.../It's always the Republicans fault and those damnable filibusters that they threaten with.

another obvious weakness of the democrats. There have been no filibusters. I love filibusters, hooray for filibusters! Let's see one. The dems crumble at the mention of one, its like 'Oh shiit, they say they're gonna filibuster _____, I guess we lost'

BlackCrayon · 10-04-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Thank you for that careful thought out critique of the debate.
Brother..you are truly politically blind and caught up in the "our side" mentality.

And don't take what I'm saying personally. Politics is so incendiary that people get angry about it at each other.

I'm simply saying that just like Obama last night in the debate...you are trying to paint a picture of Romney and define him by what you've been told by the media.
To make your "argument", you need to find links to what Romney is "lying" about.

Remember...he's not the President. He hasn't done anything to lie about. Obama has.

This election is about the last 4 years and what direction we will go in next. Romney can not lie about things he has not done. Obama on the other hand has to run on his actual record as President.

romney has it easy in the debates because he can say he'll do this or that and it might sound good but what accountability is there to ensure he really does it..none! obama has to defend what he was done which is much harder. and everyone falls into "our side" mentality, even you. you think anyone who votes democrat is a entitlement baby wanting the government to take care of them and anyone who votes republican does so because they are serious business people who want lower taxes..neither of which is really true.

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Obama needs is grounded to reality while Romney can make the same big promises that Obama made four years when he was running.

Pretty much.
And furthermore...Obama is now in the same position as the Bush record he ran against.
Obama 4 years ago said it was Bush's policies that put us in bad shape and made us all believe he had the answer.

Now he has 4 years of pretty much failing with his methods and all he can do is promise more of the same (or else admit his ideas were no good and try a different way).
Meanwhile Romney makes some very good points.

Especially when he spoke of energy policy.
Obama tried that old subsidizing oil companies argument (which if he really didn't like it...he's had 4 years to stop it but didn't).
Romney NAILED him on that when he pointed out that it's only a little over 2 billion dollars a year...and that Obama handed out 90 billion to a bunch of green energy companies that were owned by his campaign contributors!

Now that was badass!

I also liked when Romney nailed Obama on his lies about oil and gas production. Obama stood there and lied his ass off when he insinuated that because of his administration that oil and gas production was higher in the U.S. than ever.
Romney correctly pointed out that ALL of that new production is happening on PRIVATE lands and Obama actually cut production on federal land in half!

Brujah · 10-04-2012, 12:10 PM

Doesn't it bother you at all about Gary Johnson's views against supporting Israel?

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

romney has it easy in the debates because he can say he'll do this or that and it might sound good but what accountability is there to ensure he really does it..none! .

You just described Obama in 2008

And a lot of what Obama has done just doesn't make good common sense to most of us in business.

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

Doesn't it bother you at all about Gary Johnson's views against supporting Israel?

Nope. I think it's time for the U.S. to stop trying to rule the world and "shape" things. Not saying total isolation. But we need to stop trying to force the world to our will.

We shouldn't blindly support ANY country...especially because of our superstitious belief that Israel is "God's chosen people".

madm1k3 · 10-04-2012, 12:21 PM

[QUOTE=Robbie;19232112]Which positions did Romney change in the debate last night?[QUOTE]

Mitt Romney stated he was going to close tax loopholes for wealthy americans

http://www.atr.org/mitt-romney-signs...n-pledge-a1872

this is the pledge signed by him, stating he will not close any loopholes that would result in a tax increase. Now you can argue he can offset this pledge by dropping taxes on high income americans but he stated he would not do that.

Just because I question Romney don't go off on my "Liberal" views, like I stated in the my original post Obama lied about the bank bail out and the was probably the biggest lie of the night.

BlackCrayon · 10-04-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You just described Obama in 2008

for sure. so lets say romney wins, 4 years pass and he is doing the same having to defend his many failures and false promises against another guy and his future false promises...its the same story over and over. when will people clue in? these debates are near pointless.

Minte · 10-04-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Thank you for that careful thought out critique of the debate.
Brother..you are truly politically blind and caught up in the "our side" mentality.

And don't take what I'm saying personally. Politics is so incendiary that people get angry about it at each other.

I'm simply saying that just like Obama last night in the debate...you are trying to paint a picture of Romney and define him by what you've been told by the media.
To make your "argument", you need to find links to what Romney is "lying" about.

Remember...he's not the President. He hasn't done anything to lie about. Obama has.

This election is about the last 4 years and what direction we will go in next. Romney can not lie about things he has not done. Obama on the other hand has to run on his actual record as President.

Actually, Robbie..I honestly believe that Mark Prince is a 12 year old. He clearly talks like one.

Bryan G · 10-04-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Romney is a big fat fucking liar and piece of shit scumbag, and everyone knows it. Unfortunately, he did really well at the debates last night despite all of his lies. I didn't check the polls today but it doesn't matter - I'm sure he's way up. He can flat out tell you that the sun revolves around the earth, and the sheeple will believe him. The lack of critical thinkers makes this presidential race much closer than it should ever be. What a disaster.

Dude, you need to STFU. I am not a romney fan by any stretch of the imagination. You clearly hate the republican party, everyone gets that. Obama was not prepared, I only caught the last 30mins of it and clearly a disaster for obama. I was shocked at how poorly he handled his self. As for romney lying, this is news to you??? A politician lying??? Lmao man.

Rochard · 10-04-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Nope. I think it's time for the U.S. to stop trying to rule the world and "shape" things. Not saying total isolation. But we need to stop trying to force the world to our will.

We tried that once. We used to ignore the rest of the world. Then we got sucked into World War II and then the Cold War.

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madm1k3

Mitt Romney stated he was going to close tax loopholes for wealthy americans
http://www.atr.org/mitt-romney-signs...n-pledge-a1872

this is the pledge signed by him, stating he will not close any loopholes that would result in a tax increase.

And here is the exact language of that pledge: "oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates."

Which is EXACTLY what he said last night during the debate. He even went into the specifics of why it was important to lower the tax rates even as he closed the loopholes.

So again...I don't see where he lied about anything he said. I thought everything he spoke about last night was thoughtful and smart. Obama is not even in the same league when it comes to economics as Romney proved last night.

Even though Romney patiently explained over and over and over how MORE revenue will come into the Federal govt. when more people have jobs and are paying taxes and less people are dependent on govt. checks...Obama didn't seem to be able to understand that.

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

We tried that once. We used to ignore the rest of the world. Then we got sucked into World War II and then the Cold War.

But you know we didn't get sucked into WW2

We got bombed by Japan. Then after we won that war 70 years ago, we are STILL occupying Japan and Germany.

As for getting sucked into the Cold War...that didn't happen either. WE made the Cold War happen by starting the policy of trying to control the world. We had NATO and occupied Western Europe. The Soviets had The Warsaw Pact and occupied Eastern Europe.

Remember? We had to destroy those evil Communists.

70 years of this shit. And what's it gotten us? Most of the world hates our guts.

The Middle East is in flames. They hate us so much that we had 9-11 happen....and if they could they would do it again.

Latin America is being dictated to by us as we tell them they aren't allowed to grow coca or marijuana. So they get poorer while the drug cartel leaders get filthy rich and people die by the tens of thousands because WE decided that drugs aren't moral enough for our holier-than-thou society.

We are doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. There has to be a better way.

NETbilling · 10-04-2012, 03:34 PM

My son who is 15 wants to learn about the 2 candidates in a non partisan objective way. Is there a site out there that can teach him with just facts and without the BS?

Mitch

Brujah · 10-04-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NETbilling

My son who is 15 wants to learn about the 2 candidates in a non partisan objective way. Is there a site out there that can teach him with just facts and without the BS?

Mitch

I'm not sure about how helpful it would be regarding just the 2 candidates, but this might help see which candidate matches his own current views the closest.
http://www.isidewith.com/

kane · 10-04-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Romney is a big fat fucking liar and piece of shit scumbag, and everyone knows it. Unfortunately, he did really well at the debates last night despite all of his lies. I didn't check the polls today but it doesn't matter - I'm sure he's way up. He can flat out tell you that the sun revolves around the earth, and the sheeple will believe him. The lack of critical thinkers makes this presidential race much closer than it should ever be. What a disaster.

There is a big difference between winning a debate and winning the election.

Remember back in 2004? John Kerry wiped the floor with Bush. There was even the speculation that Bush was wearing an earpiece so he could be fed answers. Kerry went on to win all three debates and still lost the election.

madm1k3 · 10-04-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

And here is the exact language of that pledge: "oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates."

Actually Romney said ?I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans." You can actually watch this on Youtube

So if he is now in favor of eliminating loopholes (deductions) that the high income Americans recieve, by his own signature on the pledge would indicate he would have to lower the tax rate for them. But again no one is asking what loopholes are closing so this debate is pretty redundant.

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madm1k3

Actually Romney said “I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans." You can actually watch this on Youtube

So if he is now in favor of eliminating loopholes (deductions) that the high income Americans recieve, by his own signature on the pledge would indicate he would have to lower the tax rate for them. But again no one is asking what loopholes are closing so this debate is pretty redundant.

Yes...he said I'm not going to REDUCE high income people's taxes. We agree 100%. He is going to bring down the tax RATE and close the loopholes which would basically have them paying the same amount of dollars. Which IF you watch the debate he explains exactly why he feels that will help small businesses that pay the personal income tax rate.

Just go back and watch what he actually says and the very specific reason he gives for it. It was pretty instructional.

Minte · 10-04-2012, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yes...he said I'm not going to REDUCE high income people's taxes. We agree 100%. He is going to bring down the tax RATE and close the loopholes which would basically have them paying the same amount of dollars. Which IF you watch the debate he explains exactly why he feels that will help small businesses that pay the personal income tax rate.

Just go back and watch what he actually says and the very specific reason he gives for it. It was pretty instructional.

I'd wager that most of these GFY political scientists couldn't sit for 90 minutes and watch anything that included clothing. It's far easier to echo a few talking points they caught in another thread.
But on a positive note..you are really brushing up on your typing skills!

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

But on a positive note..you are really brushing up on your typing skills!

yeah...I've gotten caught up in all of this. I'm sick of the media telling us all what to do and who to vote for. And I'm sick of Republicans and Democrats. I wish everyone would just stop reading their favorite biased political site that tells the story they want to hear, and start actually paying attention.

I'll make another plea to folks on here: Go to http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/
Keep an open mind and think about what he's saying.

Brujah · 10-04-2012, 07:00 PM

lol Robbie you've been a Romney cheerleader for awhile now so why are you casually mentioning you're sick of Republicans here and there?

Rochard · 10-04-2012, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madm1k3

Actually Romney said ?I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans." You can actually watch this on Youtube

So if he is now in favor of eliminating loopholes (deductions) that the high income Americans recieve, by his own signature on the pledge would indicate he would have to lower the tax rate for them. But again no one is asking what loopholes are closing so this debate is pretty redundant.

Put your money where your mouth is - and post up the video clip.

Robbie · 10-04-2012, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

lol Robbie you've been a Romney cheerleader for awhile now so why are you casually mentioning you're sick of Republicans here and there?

You are wrong. I just do NOT like Obama anymore. I voted for him in 2008 and I got suckered.

This time I paid attention and actually listened to Romney's ideas instead of what the media tried to paint him as. It's been nauseating to see the media try to swing the election for Obama.

And I am sick of Republicans and Democrats. Nothing "casual" about that. Romney isn't going to stop the war on drugs. He's not gonna stop the madness of our military. He's not going to repeal the Patriot Act and restore our freedoms, liberties, and privacy.

So instead of worrying about who I am "cheerleading" and being wrong in your assumption...check out who I AM cheerleading for: http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/

If the fucking Republicans and Dems had allowed Johnson into the debate then I would be critiquing his performance. As it is...the only two people we are ALLOWED to discuss is Obama and Romney because they were the only candidates we were allowed to see.

And in that context, as a business owner and taking Obama's 4 years as President into account....Romney is the better man. But I'm voting for Johnson because his ideas are the same ones that I believe in.

GrantMercury · 10-04-2012, 10:47 PM

He lied at a machine gun pace. The fucker.

Obama 2012.

GrantMercury · 10-04-2012, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

There is a big difference between winning a debate and winning the election.

Remember back in 2004? John Kerry wiped the floor with Bush. There was even the speculation that Bush was wearing an earpiece so he could be fed answers. Kerry went on to win all three debates and still lost the election.

That's true. I'd forgotten that.

Obama 2012.

10-04-2012, 07:28 AM	#1
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	At Last Night?s Debate: Romney Told 27 Myths In 38 Minutes Pundits from both sides of the aisle have lauded Mitt Romney?s strong debate performance, praising his preparedness and ability to challenge President Obama?s policies and accomplishments. But Romney only accomplished this goal by repeatedly misleading viewers. He spoke for 38 minutes of the 90 minute debate and told at least 27 myths: 1) ?Get us energy independent, North American energy independent. That creates about 4 million jobs?. Romney?s plan for ?energy independence? actually relies heavily on a study that assumes the U.S. continues with fuel efficiency standards set by the Obama administration. For instance, he uses Citigroup research based off the assumption that ??the United States will continue with strict fuel economy standards that will lower its oil demand.? Since he promises to undo the Obama administration?s new fuel efficiency standards, he would cut oil consumption savings of 2 million barrels per day by 2025. 2) ?I don?t have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don?t have a tax cut of a scale that you?re talking about.? A Tax Policy Center analysis of Romney?s proposal for a 20 percent across-the-board tax cut in all federal income tax rates, eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax, eliminating the estate tax and other tax reductions, would reduce federal revenue $480 billion in 2015. This amount to $5 trillion over the decade. 3) ?My view is that we ought to provide tax relief to people in the middle class. But I?m not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high-income people.? If Romney hopes to provide tax relief to the middle class, then his $5 trillion tax cut would add to the deficit. There are not enough deductions in the tax corde that primarily benefit rich people to make his math work. 4) ?My - my number-one principal is, there will be no tax cut that adds to the deficit. I want to underline that: no tax cut that adds to the deficit.? As the Tax Policy Center concluded, Romney?s plan can?t both exempt middle class families from tax cuts and remain revenue neutral. ?He?s promised all these things and he can?t do them all. In order for him to cover the cost of his tax cut without adding to the deficit, he?d have to find a way to raise taxes on middle income people or people making less than $200,000 a year,? the Center found. 5) ?I will not under any circumstances raise taxes on middle-income families. I will lower taxes on middle-income families. Now, you cite a study. There are six other studies that looked at the study you describe and say it?s completely wrong.? The studies Romney cites actually further prove that Romney would, in fact, have to raise taxes on the middle class if he were to keep his promise not to lose revenue with his tax rate reduction. 6) ?I saw a study that came out today that said you?re going to raise taxes by $3,000 to $4,000 on middle-income families.? Romney is pointing to this study from the American Enterprise Institute. It actually found that rather than raise taxes to pay down the debt, the Obama administration?s policies ? those contained directly in his budget ? would reduce the share of taxes that go toward servicing the debt by $1,289.89 per taxpayer in the $100,000 to $200,000 range. 7) ?And the reason is because small business pays that individual rate; 54 percent of America?s workers work in businesses that are taxed not at the corporate tax rate, but at the individual tax rate?.97 percent of the businesses are not ? not taxed at the 35 percent tax rate, they?re taxed at a lower rate. But those businesses that are in the last 3 percent of businesses happen to employ half ? half of all the people who work in small business.? Far less than half of the people affected by the expiration of the upper income tax cuts get any of their income at all from a small businesses. And those people could very well be receiving speaking fees or book royalties, which qualify as ?small business income? but don?t have a direct impact on job creation. It?s actually hard to find a small business who think that they will be hurt if the marginal tax rate on income earned above $250,000 per year is increased. 8) ?Mr. President, all of the increase in natural gas and oil has happened on private land, not on government land. On government land, your administration has cut the number of permits and licenses in half.? Oil production from federal lands is higher, not lower: Production from federal lands is up slightly in 2011 when compared to 2007. And the oil and gas industry is sitting on 7,000 approved permits to drill, that it hasn?t begun exploring or developing. 9) ?The president?s put it in place as much public debt ? almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined.? This is not even close to being true. When Obama took office, the national debt stood at $10.626 trillion. Now the national debt is over $16 trillion. That $5.374 trillion increase is nowhere near as much debt as all the other presidents combined. 10) ?That?s why the National Federation of Independent Businesses said your plan will kill 700,000 jobs. I don?t want to kill jobs in this environment.? That study, produced by a right-wing advocacy organization, doesn?t analyze what Obama has actually proposed. 11) ?What we do have right now is a setting where I?d like to bring money from overseas back to this country.? Romney?s plan to shift the country to a territorial tax system would allow corporations to do business and make profits overseas without ever being taxed on it in the United States. This encourages American companies to invest abroad and could cost the country up to 800,000 jobs. 12) ?I would like to take the Medicaid dollars that go to states and say to a state, you?re going to get what you got last year, plus inflation, plus 1 percent, and then you?re going to manage your care for your poor in the way you think best.? Sending federal Medicaid funding to the states in the form of a block grant woud significantly reduce federal spending for Medicaid because the grant would not keep up with projected health care costs. A CBO estimate of a very similar proposal from Paul Ryan found that federal spending would be ?35 percent lower in 2022 and 49 percent lower in 2030 than current projected federal spending? and as a result ?states would face significant challenges in achieving sufficient cost savings through efficiencies to mitigate the loss of federal funding.? ?To maintain current service levels in the Medicaid program, states would probably need to consider additional changes, such as reducing their spending on other programs or raising additional revenues,? the CBO found. 13) ?I want to take that $716 billion you?ve cut and put it back into Medicare?. But the idea of cutting $716 billion from Medicare to be able to balance the additional cost of Obamacare is, in my opinion, a mistake. There?s that number again. Romney is claiming that Obamacare siphons off $716 billion from Medicare, to the detriment of beneficiaries. In actuality, that money is saved primarily through reducing over-payments to insurance companies under Medicare Advantage, not payments to beneficiaries. Paul Ryan?s budget plan keeps those same cuts, but directs them toward tax cuts for the rich and deficit reduction.

10-04-2012, 07:35 AM	#4
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	You don't have to tell the truth, to win a debate or be the top voice in media. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

10-04-2012, 09:46 AM	#8
2012 So Fucking What Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 17,189	__________________ best host: Webair \| best sponsor: Kink \| best coder: 688218966 \| Go Fuck Yourself

10-04-2012, 09:56 AM	#9
madm1k3 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 472	I will say that Romney changed a lot of his positions again, its almost as if he changes positions depending on the audience of the debate. I still can't believe that he has been running for two years and can't name a tax loophole or deduction he would eliminate and the media is letting him get away with it Obama lied about the banks, like a typical corporate lackey __________________ Always looking for trades on Linkspun! Check my Id here

10-04-2012, 11:41 AM	#15
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	So, who was the clear winner? ha __________________ *Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!* ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!! Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634

10-04-2012, 08:09 AM	#5
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	How many myths did Obama tell?

10-04-2012, 11:22 AM	#13
spazlabz Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kentucky Posts: 6,548	well yeah of course he lied.... Obama lied. I could tell because they are politicians and on my TV

10-04-2012, 11:44 AM	#16
2MuchMark Videochat Solutions Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 49,231	Romney is a big fat fucking liar and piece of shit scumbag, and everyone knows it. Unfortunately, he did really well at the debates last night despite all of his lies. I didn't check the polls today but it doesn't matter - I'm sure he's way up. He can flat out tell you that the sun revolves around the earth, and the sheeple will believe him. The lack of critical thinkers makes this presidential race much closer than it should ever be. What a disaster. __________________ Custom Coding \| Videochat Solutions \| Age Verification \| IT Help & Support www.2Much.net

10-04-2012, 11:48 AM	#17
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	Fucking Prince; get over it. Obama is inept and a liar. At least Romney has a history of getting shit done.

10-04-2012, 11:58 AM	#19
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,928	Politics has changed. It's very easy for a politician to sit there and make bold promises and cite "studies", but now... We have nearly instant fact checking. It's not like it was twenty years ago where a reporter would have to spend days verifying facts and by that time no one really cared any more. Now we have near instant fact checking, and we can directly check any source anyone mentions. Has there been any fact checking on what Obama said? __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

10-04-2012, 12:10 PM	#29
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	Doesn't it bother you at all about Gary Johnson's views against supporting Israel? __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

10-04-2012, 12:21 PM	#32
madm1k3 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 472	[QUOTE=Robbie;19232112]Which positions did Romney change in the debate last night?[QUOTE] Mitt Romney stated he was going to close tax loopholes for wealthy americans http://www.atr.org/mitt-romney-signs...n-pledge-a1872 this is the pledge signed by him, stating he will not close any loopholes that would result in a tax increase. Now you can argue he can offset this pledge by dropping taxes on high income americans but he stated he would not do that. Just because I question Romney don't go off on my "Liberal" views, like I stated in the my original post Obama lied about the bank bail out and the was probably the biggest lie of the night. __________________ Always looking for trades on Linkspun! Check my Id here

10-04-2012, 03:34 PM	#39
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,584	My son who is 15 wants to learn about the 2 candidates in a non partisan objective way. Is there a site out there that can teach him with just facts and without the BS? Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-04-2012, 07:00 PM	#46
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	lol Robbie you've been a Romney cheerleader for awhile now so why are you casually mentioning you're sick of Republicans here and there? __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

10-04-2012, 10:47 PM	#49
GrantMercury Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,626	He lied at a machine gun pace. The fucker. Obama 2012. __________________ http://www.taboophonesexfantasy.com http://www.thekittykatclub.com