From what I understand, the Greek government spent themselves into a huge amount of debt, more than 4 times that allowed under the EU treaty. This debt was created with the help of banks and a corrupt government through kickbacks and other payments. Pensions and other entitlement benefits for the upper class were much more damaging than those given to the "poor".

If I was rich and reaped the rewards of a corrupt government, I would blame it on the poor as well.

You didn't even read what I said.

You obviously never have and don't know me at all.

The only one who looks "brain washed" is you when you make these kind of assumptions based on your OWN rhetoric.

corporate welfare sucks way more money out of the system than poor people welfare does...oh but they are 'job creators'...sure in third world countries maybe.

Are they blaming it on the "poor" over there?
I haven't seen that reported anywhere. What the analysts on CNN said (Ali Velshi's show) has been that the govt. made promises to the entire population that were simply unrealistic.

Isn't that what the Greek govt. did to spend themselves into that huge amount of debt? I'm just asking. From what you wrote it sounds like they spent a ton of money that they didn't have...but what are they spending it on?

If it's all the goodies they promised EVERYBODY (not the poor...EVERYBODY) then that is what I am saying.

When you promise people a bunch of stuff that you can't possibly deliver...they are going to be pissed off.

This discussion is about countries in Europe. Not the U.S.

I'm not sure if they are blaming it on the poor over there. I was addressing those in this thread that blame such things on the poor welfare people when the real cause is usually those well above the poverty levels.

Personally...if we are talking about the U.S., I think that govt. handouts are a big problem. And getting worse.
And no, I don't mean to the "poor".

I mean the govt. passing bills to spend money it doesn't have for a million things it shouldn't be involved in.

Social Security is supposed to be our own money coming back to us for retirement. IF that was really the way it worked I have no problem with that (except that we are all FORCED to do it...which the govt. shouldn't have the power to do) But overall that is acceptable.

Same with medicare.

The rest of the things our govt. does...funding arts, hospitals, schools, etc. all SOUNDS good. But it's not the role of govt.
As for "corporate welfare"....that shit should have NEVER happened.
Yes, farm subsidies was a well intentioned idea. And of course it has now expanded to "subsidizing" everything. :(
But it's not the role of govt.
And ANY business that the feds hand money to is simply a redistribution of wealth and is socialism.

If the U.S. govt. would stop the insane military spending then yeah...I could better understand entitlements and 'welfare" type programs.

When I was younger, I would read in my schoolbooks how the govt. would have to choose between "guns and butter" (military or social spending). And you couldn't have both. So thank goodness there were only a few wars.

These days? We spend more on the military than the next ten or so countries do put together! And there is no "real" war happening.
It doesn't make sense to me.

Actually with Spain, it's not so much the main governments fault. Their debt levels are still now pretty low, its the regional politicians.

Bilbao got a new museum worth millions, so every other damn city wanted one. The small regional banks had the politicians on their boards, so they got lent whatever $$ they wanted to build airports no one needed, 5 lane freeways connecting small towns. just silly stuff.

Regional politicians are the worst of the worst they all think they're gods. (Scotland take note :winkwink:)

I live in small town, yet they blew 12 million euros on an arts and artisan center.

Also Spain got hammered by the European bank. when it was booming Germany/France weren't so interest rates kept coming down, and German money poured into Spain.

They were building 100's of thousands of new houses mainly for northern Europeans as holiday homes, which the government gets around 10% tax on, so big bucks. then suddenly no building, none it stops.

So take away the tax on the buildings plus the tax on the wages of people working in construction, add on the unemployment benefits you now have to pay them and it adds up.

Credit should have been tightened, but when a government cant control interest rates, you're buggered.

They are blaming a corrupt government and the rich in Greece. They are calling it "the failure of the elite". Tax dodging is a national sport in Greece, tax inspectors get kickbacks to make the problem go away. It costs Greece ?45 billion a year in lost revenue, more than it needs to pay off it's debt.

and if I need dog shit picked up in my yard, I'll call you.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

It still amazes me that this story hasn't been covered at all by the US media...

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...49868670_n.jpg

I wonder why not?

At least reading Robbie's posts you can tell he is someone who forms his own opinions.

Right or left I respect him for that :2 cents:

I'm not even sure why he thinks I'm talking "right" or "left" But that's because he doesn't read what I actually wrote.

Just in case he actually reads this...I'm talking about the govt. in Spain and Greece. Not right wing or leftists politicians...
I'm referring to the shit they ALL promise to the people and corporations to get elected. There is no difference between "right" and "left" on the things that really matter.

They are ALL out to empower and enrich themselves in my opinion. Everything else is secondary. Sometimes our society benefits from things they do. Sometimes not. But no...I don't believe that politicians actually care more for ME than they do for THEMSELVES.

It's just human nature.

What story? Large crowds of people in Mexico?