Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19174988)

Of all the people who read off a teleprompter what someone else wrote for them, Obama is the best.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 19174982)

So above you say: "a. American people did not want the health care system changed. Obama went against their wishes and passed it through. He is supposed to represent the people, Not do whatever he wants!"

But now you endorse the guy who you claim might have a plan that most people won't like but he will do anyway and you are for it.

Interesting.

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19174776)

Good speech, Good idea's.

The funny part was when he was acting like he cared about people not being able to pay their medical bills. Why didn't he mention that because of him, Hospitals can now collect outstanding bills, If you don't pay, they will confiscate anything of value that you own...

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate President Obama, I just disagree with some of the things he does, and think it's time for someone new to be in office.

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19175229)

The man is president of the USA ,you think he has time to sit and memorize a speech? Thats to belittle him make him appear like a less than.

Originally Posted by TheLegacy (Post 19175276)

Like or hate his speech - the question is which one is more likely to move the country forward rather than backwards, even just a bit? Neither one can solve all the problems but as Clinton suggested - is the country better than it was a few years ago? I think yes

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19174971)

I have more faith in Romney, And I do believe they have plans to fix the economy. Most likely stuff the majority of people would be against, and that's why I think they are not telling their plans...

Example would be hitting piracy and getting that tax money. So many are against this, because they want everything for free that it would kill his chances of becoming president. I'm not saying this is one of the plans, just saying it's an example that would help the economy that people would be against. another would be a major welfare reform.

Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 19174999)

Why do you guys keep spewing nonsense, without bothering to fact check?

U.S. domestic oil production is higher than it has been in eight years, and our imports are less than half of consumption, for the first time in 17 years. 20 million new acres have been opened for exploration in the Gulf.

You don't even have to give him credit for it, but it's still true. It's silly to pretend the truth is a lie, just because you don't like the guy.

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19175233)

also oil for fuel is an old fucking technology maybe we should get something new. Its funny we are all tech guys are you all still using dos?
The Chinese are number one in solar ,a technology Americans created. The Chinese gov invested 30 billion dollars in it. Funny how that works.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19175685)

The Chinese are number one in building FACTORIES that make the style of solar panels that have been around since Jimmy Carter put them on the White House in 1976

That's called cheap Chinese labor and ZERO govt. safety regulation.

You know we can't compete with that!

But to insinuate that the Chinese are somehow on the cutting edge of solar technology is NOT true. They are just able to produce shit much more cheaply (just like they do everything else)

Originally Posted by TheLegacy (Post 19175276)

Like or hate his speech - the question is which one is more likely to move the country forward rather than backwards, even just a bit? Neither one can solve all the problems but as Clinton suggested - is the country better than it was a few years ago? I think yes

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19175695)

I don't think we are better off. not based in my own experiance.

When Clinton was in office, Money was easy to get and it seemed you could make as much as you wanted if you just put in more work.

Near the end of Bushes term, You had to work harder, but again, the money was still there.

Now it seems you have to live your life working, Just to make ends meet.

Break it down however you want. but that is my openion.

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19175694)

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19175695)

I don't think we are better off. not based in my own experiance.

When Clinton was in office, Money was easy to get and it seemed you could make as much as you wanted if you just put in more work.

Near the end of Bushes term, You had to work harder, but again, the money was still there.

Now it seems you have to live your life working, Just to make ends meet.

Break it down however you want. but that is my openion.

Originally Posted by GrantMercury (Post 19174799)

That "someone new" has exactly the same policies as the idiot who left America on life support after 8 horrible years.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19175725)

It's not about "you" it's about everyone.

I've documented how my home town has been affected by the economy over and over again. My neighborhood - upper middle class - was a ghost town because over half of the houses were vacant. Businesses were shutting down, all construction projects stopped - half completed. All of this has been reversed. Our houses are full again in our neighborhood, construction has resumed, and new businesses are opening. The "Rainbow Market" - which was locally owned for the past seventy years - closed, and now a new store is going up in place of the old store.

It's gotten better for me too - I'm making more than ever before, and my wife is employed full time too.

I don't how much of this is because of Obama, but the Republican party is saying "he failed" when things are in fact better.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19175437)

The point was, all of these politicians have people / teams who write their speeches for them. The words they say are often not their own.

Jon Favreau is the Director of speech writing for president Obama, who has a team of speech writers. Obama's team knocked it out of the park. Obama simply read their words with conviction and made everyone believe they were his own, with a message that is generic, yet very well calculated.



Favreau is paid $172,200 a year. He has been named one of the "100 Most Influential People in the World" by Time magazine. He is the real genius behind Obama.

Obama is a great speaker, but it is only fair to give credit where it is due. And this does not just apply to Obama, this goes for all of them. I just single out Obama because everyone goes on and on about how great his speeches are, but he doesn't even write them.

Originally Posted by Kevin Marx (Post 19175766)

So curious to me that everyone attacks a full 8 years of Bush.

A president doesn't do things on their own (although this one seems to be trying to do a lot of things outside of Congressional involvement). They have to work with Congress. Bush had a Democratic Congress for a good period of his presidency as did Obama for the first 2 years. A lot of the blame for shit that has happened belongs there as well.



Try being in the healthcare industry before talking about this being a big win (of which I am). It's a shitty piece of legislation that has more to do with taxation and government control than healthcare. It also puts the healthcare industry in a worse position that people perceive it is now.... all with the guise of "covering" 32 million uninsured Americans. Remember that for these uninsureds to be taken care of, someone has to pay for it.... That's you and me bub unless you are one of the uninsured's and then it's just me and those just like me that have the wherewithal to pay for it. Nothing's ever Free.

The number one cause of America's long term fiscal problems?? Hah... try borrowing money from the Chinese to fund every fucking welfare program we have. People getting things for nothing. BTW, welfare to Israel and African nations is just as ludicrous as handing out food stamps and unemployment. Someone's gotta pay for that and at a certain point, the handouts overcame the funding. How can we possibly keep borrowing to fund welfare? It's a time bomb that's ready to explode. Don't kid yourself.

BTW, I looked up GDP numbers the other day. Are you aware that our GDP is roughly 2.5-3 times higher than the Chinese? Why the hell do we need to borrow money from them? Why????? Handouts.... plain and simple. If we stop handing shit out, then we stop borrowing and we can pay for ourselves. How about some fiscal responsibility by both parties in our own country. They need to stop buying votes by promising shit to people and other places. It's really easy to give away money that doesn't come from your own pocket.



We will never fully leave Iraq and Afghanistan. Won't happen. Will the military drawdown happen? Sure. We will remain there as a fixture just like in Germany, Japan, Korea, etc. It's nice to have bases in other parts of the world for when the baddies start shit up. It's just logical.



Yea Obama. What a wonderful thing he did by ordering the kill shot. Whomever is in the big chair when the time came would have pretty much made the same decision. I don't give him much leadership credit for saying shoot the fucker. Big deal.

Do I think Bush/Administration was playing games? Yeah, I do, but I also feel the Dems and GOP play the same games.

From a leadership standpoint I don't think Obama has been very successful and his primary focus has been to allow the government more oversight and control of the citizenry. I think that task began a long time ago and I think Bush helped to push it along as well.

From a purely economic standpoint, I feel that a businessman has better skills and experience to move the country along than Obama, who's experience had nothing to do with monetary knowledge.

Romney has things I disagree with, absolutely, but in this 2 horse race, I'm not sure why people just accept that Obama is the one to continue for another 4 years when the first 4 have been far from anything close to good.

I don't think Romney is just a rehash of Bush, but I do feel he's a better selection than Obama episode 2

Originally Posted by Kevin Marx (Post 19175794)

Question: How many of those houses sold for the value they went empty at?

My street went through the same process. We have a full street again and all the houses that went under sold for almost 1/2 of what they went foreclosed value at. I'm not sure I call that progress or "better off" as my home value is almost the same it was over 12 years ago; but yeah, we have a full street again and 4 people got smokin deals on homes in a very nice location.

The foreclosures get dumped on the general population because the banks were saved. So in essence, my home value dropped and I also as a taxpayer now get to subsidize the new owners lessened home value. Not sure I would call that progress or better off either.

I posted in another thread. A lot of the shit that happened was during and because of a Democratic Congress. A president doesn't operate in a vacuum by himself. Bush wasn't a great president, but neither is Obama. Shit is moving and happening because Americans are innovators and survivors, not because a president is doing things to help the citizenry. Government tends to get in the way of people. The only reason legislation is necessary is to act against abusers. Moral and ethical people need no legislation to exist.

Originally Posted by ninavain (Post 19174546)

bye bye Mittens Romney

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 19175802)

and here i thought why would the guy who directs Iron Man work for an extra $172k a year to write speeches...

turns out there are two of them :winkwink:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19175815)

And here we have a teabagger, from Arizona nonetheless, saying don't blame Bush the president has little effect on things and then babbles on how Obama ruined the country. :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by PornoMonster (Post 19175853)

Exactly, I have said this to him before. If I had extra money and thought the house was at rock bottom prices, I would invest in the ones that fell 40-60%. Why, they will go back up to those prices someday maybe.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19175983)

Don't any of you remember what happened in 2008?

There is no "horrible Bush years" for the economy. The economy kicked ass and unemployment was super low.

What killed the economy was the collapse of the housing market. Nothing else.

Why everyone has a hard on and thinks that Bush tax cuts caused the recession is just ridiculous. And remember...Pres. Obama insisted that they be KEPT his entire presidency too.

Tax cuts have nothing to do with the economy collapsing and neither did Bush. The housing market collapse did it at the end of 2008.
And that was caused by Republican and DEMOCRAT politicians in the House and Senate who were busy funneling money back to the big banks who contribute to their campaigns.

And those same Democrat & Republican Senators and House Congressman who voted for that stuff are still in power and talking shit trying to fool you into thinking they didn't do anything wrong so they can keep their career politician jobs.

What Bush did was take away a big chunk of our freedom and privacy. And get us involved in stupid wars.

But the economy?
When Obama said in his speech that it took "decades" to create the mess and he can't clean it up in 4 years (though he pledged to do so at the beginning of his term. lol)...that was a lie.
The economy was roaring up until the housing crash.

Fix that, and you fix the economy.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19175983)

Don't any of you remember what happened in 2008?

There is no "horrible Bush years" for the economy. The economy kicked ass and unemployment was super low.

What killed the economy was the collapse of the housing market. Nothing else.

Why everyone has a hard on and thinks that Bush tax cuts caused the recession is just ridiculous. And remember...Pres. Obama insisted that they be KEPT his entire presidency too.

Tax cuts have nothing to do with the economy collapsing and neither did Bush. The housing market collapse did it at the end of 2008.
And that was caused by Republican and DEMOCRAT politicians in the House and Senate who were busy funneling money back to the big banks who contribute to their campaigns.

And those same Democrat & Republican Senators and House Congressman who voted for that stuff are still in power and talking shit trying to fool you into thinking they didn't do anything wrong so they can keep their career politician jobs.

What Bush did was take away a big chunk of our freedom and privacy. And get us involved in stupid wars.

But the economy?
When Obama said in his speech that it took "decades" to create the mess and he can't clean it up in 4 years (though he pledged to do so at the beginning of his term. lol)...that was a lie.
The economy was roaring up until the housing crash.

Fix that, and you fix the economy.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 19176068)

I think it took the housing market several years (not decades) to build to the point where it eventually burst. The banks started realizing that they could give out these sub-prime mortgages to anyone who can walk and breathe at the the same time then package them up and sell them off before they ever went bad. A ton of banks got in on it and many of them built entire investment portfolios on these mortgages. After 4-5 years of this kind of craziness the mortgages started going bad and suddenly the house of cards came tumbling down.

Was Bush responsible? Not wholly. The deregulation of the banking industry allowed for the widespread selling of these mortgages and the greed of the mortgage and banking industries drove them to just hand out loans with reckless abandon. You can also add in people buying these houses thinking they are going to make a quick buck off them into that as well. There is plenty of blame to go around, but in the end Bush was leading the show and when the team doesn't play well it is the coach that gets blamed.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19175437)

The point was, all of these politicians have people / teams who write their speeches for them. The words they say are often not their own.

Jon Favreau is the Director of speech writing for president Obama, who has a team of speech writers. Obama's team knocked it out of the park. Obama simply read their words with conviction and made everyone believe they were his own, with a message that is generic, yet very well calculated.



Favreau is paid $172,200 a year. He has been named one of the "100 Most Influential People in the World" by Time magazine. He is the real genius behind Obama.

Obama is a great speaker, but it is only fair to give credit where it is due. And this does not just apply to Obama, this goes for all of them. I just single out Obama because everyone goes on and on about how great his speeches are, but he doesn't even write them.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19175983)

Don't any of you remember what happened in 2008?

There is no "horrible Bush years" for the economy. The economy kicked ass and unemployment was super low.

What killed the economy was the collapse of the housing market. Nothing else.

Why everyone has a hard on and thinks that Bush tax cuts caused the recession is just ridiculous. And remember...Pres. Obama insisted that they be KEPT his entire presidency too.

Tax cuts have nothing to do with the economy collapsing and neither did Bush. The housing market collapse did it at the end of 2008.
And that was caused by Republican and DEMOCRAT politicians in the House and Senate who were busy funneling money back to the big banks who contribute to their campaigns.

And those same Democrat & Republican Senators and House Congressman who voted for that stuff are still in power and talking shit trying to fool you into thinking they didn't do anything wrong so they can keep their career politician jobs.

What Bush did was take away a big chunk of our freedom and privacy. And get us involved in stupid wars.

But the economy?
When Obama said in his speech that it took "decades" to create the mess and he can't clean it up in 4 years (though he pledged to do so at the beginning of his term. lol)...that was a lie.
The economy was roaring up until the housing crash.

Fix that, and you fix the economy.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19176102)

True...and part of the blame goes to people getting those loans as well when they couldn't afford them.
But at the time the economy was so good that people figured they COULD pay for them.

And the Democrats who voted for the bills that made all that happen, now sit back and scream "Bush" and "tax cuts" like they had nothing to do with anything. Bunch of career, corrupt politicians is what they are.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19176102)

True...and part of the blame goes to people getting those loans as well when they couldn't afford them.
But at the time the economy was so good that people figured they COULD pay for them.

And the Democrats who voted for the bills that made all that happen, now sit back and scream "Bush" and "tax cuts" like they had nothing to do with anything. Bunch of career, corrupt politicians is what they are.