I have much respect for you after viewing this thread. Romney doesn't give a crap about the working or middle class, the rights of women and thinks people that can't afford health insurance should just find a corner to die in.

Did you see the speech he gave (which was filled with HIS supporters, and they even boo'ed him when he said he wanted to do away with "obama-care".

You have absolutely no understanding of the Fed's involvement with our country, if you think that tax cuts and corporate "loopholes" created the financial crisis. Greenspan created a housing bubble by lowering the interest rates so low, that excess capital moved to the housing sector. Raising taxes does not build an economy. We're running 16 trillion in the hole, do you think anyone's taxes matter at this point? We're not even paying off interest anymore. Raising taxes is not going to make people spend or invest more money. They're going to save it. It's really simple.


Obamacare is a law, it's not an option. You will be forced to participate and if you don't, you'll pay a fine. So, I guess you have an option to pay a fine or buy insurance. Either way, you're forced to pay.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6...d303970c-600wi

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6...1896970c-300wi

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...mage/image.jpg

More people are on government assistance now, than any time in this nation's history. Bailouts from both Bush and Obama were some of the worst things that could have been done. In order to have a strong economy, things need to be able to fail. You can't just have the good without the bad. The bailouts, financed by the Fed, just dilute the money supply, which is causing even more debt, and a "government bubble," which will eventually lead to a U.S. default someday. Spending money to keep people working, only lasts so long. Then, we're in the same position, $800 billion dollars poorer. In 2007 the Democratic Congress created legislation to double interest rates on student loans from 3.4 percent to 6.8 percent in 2012. So, when it comes time for rates to double, as the Dems wanted, they all of a sudden blame the Republicans for it not wanting to lower something they created! You can't make this shit up.

In 1913, we gave the Fed too much authority. It's all going to blowup someday.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

He's white.

Tax cuts = greed.

They would vore for anyone in the Republican Party = sheep. (They voted for Palin :1orglaugh )

They do it's just you don't take it on board. Also most of the post is fatuous vapid BS. "Apologizing for America's greatness" LOL, what a joke. Every president talks about how great America is.

Obama has seen job growth, it's just not enough and it was never going to be easy Republican or Liberal after the GFC.
Obama hasn't had high spending growth, he inherited a recession and the spending that came with that. Spending as a proportion of GDP is going down though. Next year is forecast to be almost the same as Reagan's in '83 in terms of tax and spending to GDP.
lot's of Americans want "socialised heathcare" the same way they want their "socialised military" and "socialised roads". Depends on how you word it but most polls show it is quite popular. Personally I don't like his healthcare reforms, basically a giant gift to private corporations with litle cost controls.
Lots of presidents bow, I don't really see the issue, as the lone superpower it shows massive insecurity to worry about it. It's like the richest guy I know personally, I see him often down the street in a $30 tracksuit because he has no one to impress, he's a multi, multi millionaire but I see poor people down the street with their only pair of $300 shoes and leases on cars they can't afford desperate and insecure.
The last part is just silly, there are plenty of programs in place to encourage working hard and trying to become successful, to think otherwise is to buy into the two party BS.

In short, besides the healthcare reforms, things are pretty much where they would be under the Republicans given Obama hasn't changed basically any of their policies (actually that's a bit of a fib, a Democrat congress wouldn't be working so hard against a Republican president spending money on the economy and cutting teachers and police in their states so the economy would probably be slightly better).

They're both corporate shills, hell the ex-Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan staff in Obama's administration probably wouldn't even lose their jobs given their contributions to the potential new boss.

The only real issue is the Republicans are lurching even further to the right in reaction to the moderate Obama taking up right wing policies like Romneycare etc, so it's hard to say that America will be in the relatively safe hands no matter what. At some point a limit will be reached and things will have to move back to where the centre used to be. Who knows how many years or decades that will take though.

There was a pretty big article I read a few years back about how the republicans are terrified of what may happen to them in the next 10-15 years. The article pointed out that the kids who are now around 12-15 years old are a lot more socially liberal and just liberal in general than any generation before. This generation has very few hangups about race or sexuality. They don't care if gay people get married or what ethnic group you belong to. Sure, this is a broad generalization, but I am speaking of them as a collective whole not as individuals. Some of them will get more conservative as they get older, but many will not and many will still be more left leaning when they become of age to vote. These kids also don't to go church as much and aren't nearly as religious as their parents. In short, they lack most of the things that republicans try to focus on.

The thought is that as these kids get into their 20's and they start to vote it will swing this country left and if the republicans don't do something to diversify their party they could be in trouble. There is a reason as the republican convention rolls out over the next few days that they are putting minority speakers on TV. They are also actively trying to promote those few minorities that are in the party. The old adapt or die saying really pertains to them. The problem is they have a huge power struggle within the party as the far right and religious right still control the party and want it to move to the right while others want to leave the social issues behind and become the party of fiscal conservatism and move to the center. They can't have it both ways so they need to find an identity. Right now it is far right, but I won't be shocked to see some real changes in the party over the next 4-5 years especially if Romney loses.

:2 cents:

Run away spending...

Currently we spend most of our cash on wars and we are getting our asses kicked. We are losing the lives of children. They are coming back without arms and legs...

Why? Because war is big business and there is no money in WINNING them unless the other country has something to give you.

Afghanistan has crap to give us. But fighting over there sells missiles, satellites, troop carriers (land, sea, air), tanks, ships, planes, guns, ammo, fuel, supplies...

So why win the war when you can keep milking the American public and then pay Rush and Glenn to whip up the idiots into a frenzy?

"We won't let those towel head losers win! America was built by Christians for Christians! Get that Muslim trash out of the White House! Stop wasting our money on entitlement programs for people who are too lazy to work!"

It is pretty funny actually. Americans are pretty fucking stupid and amusing. Especially Christians. Total sheep. And proud to be!

LOL

He's never given a straight up answer to any question. It drives me crazy when people can't smell bullshit -- and that's a lot of people I'm talking about. Most of them, actually.

I asked a question in another thread along the lines of your post. What will the old white men of the future be like? I think there will be a dilution over time of the Republican party, once today's kids grow up. The only thing that scares me then is that they seem so worthless now, what will they be like when they're running things.

.

Obamacare is an option for Americans, not a rule. And even if it was, there is nothing at all wrong with it. Here in Canada we have medicare. Doctors and Hospital visits are free, and drugs are subsidized. In the UK, everything is free. In Cuba, the same thing. What happens if your kid gets into an accident and you don't have insurance?

This is a myth. Obama has never apologized to anyone nor has he bowed to any leader. This is a lie put to you from Romney and the GOP.

Obama is encouraging everyone to work. The bailout kept the car companies going and people working. Obama stopped predatory lending to students and kept interest rates for student loans low to encourage students to go further in school, to get better paying jobs. Etc, etc, etc etc etc. All Mitt could tell studens was "shop around" and "borrow money from your parents". [/quote].


Well said Mark, they have to believe the lies because if they didnt.They would realize he is not a liberal, he is more of a Rockefeller Republican. That kills the black liberal welfare giving president picture thats been created.

"My position has been clear throughout this campaign," Romney said. "I'm in favor of abortion being legal in the case of rape and incest, and the health and life of the mother."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...hts-are-clear/

And don't forget the billions and billions of dollars per year we spend occupying Germany and Japan 70 years after WW2 is over. lol

The only other office Romney held, he was pro choice, pro gun control, invented RomneyCare, ran his state down to 47th in job creation and when he was running he refused to release his tax returns but said "just trust me" and then it turned out he had lied about his eligibility.

People blindly cheering on one side or the other like sports fans.... Very sheep like behavior.


http://davidkretzmann.com/wordpress/...-dangerous.jpg

Yes I saw it. When I first heard all of the claps I sort of wondered if some people in the audience would have been planted there on purpose but I dismissed the idea. When I saw the news reports the next day that he had actually bussed people in to the meeting I was stunned.

I know people here in GFY don't like the idea that I'm a Canadian with such an interest in the US presidential race. Sorry, but to me it is much more interesting than Canadian politics and especially Quebec politics which is itself a huge embarrassing mess.

As a Canadian, I have no dog in your fight, so I get to view the US race from the outside. From this point of view, I cannot for the life of me understand how republicans seem to get away again and again with everything they do. It is so bad that I wonder if MSNBC lies in every broadcast..... but they don't!

Every time MSNBC says something completely unbelievable, I say "Oh come on, thats bullshit. No one would ever say/do that!", then they follow it up with proof, proof and more proof. It is stunning to me.

The worst so far is the "You didn't build that" lie. Right wingers can't do anything but lie.



How do people get away with lies like this, and why do so many people want to vote for liars like this?

Houdini :

Many Americans think that bowing is some gesture of begging or asking for forgiveness. In other cultures, bowing is a sign of respect. When you meet the Saudi KING, the EMPEROR of Japan, this is just what you do. It does not diminish the office of the president or the United States in anyway, which alot of people think it does. Just the opposite.

And just in case you need a reminder, President Obama is not the only one. Even President Bush understood this.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1344975390.jpg

The fact that you only get your US political info from MSNBC makes you as uninformed as people who only get their news from FOX. FOX will also "prove" their stories, and if you watch both, you will see news stories that the other one simply ignores.

You are a smart guy Mark. If you think about it, maybe the reason why BOTH sides of the political spectrum "get away with it" is that the people that support them only listen to "news" and "information sources" that they ALREADY AGREE WITH. Do you really think that everything the republicans say is a lie? Do you really think that everything the Democrats say is the truth?

You have absolutely no clue what the truth is, if you only listen to one side of the political spectrum, in terms of what passes for news these days, or videos that back up your already firmly held viewpoints.

If you have any REAL interest in answering your question, and trying to figure out where the truth actually is, you will need to swallow your agenda, and broaden your sources.

Of course if it's only rhetoric, and you are more comfortable staying in your own narrow viewpoint, then carry on.



.:)

Where did he say he ONLY gets his news from MSNBC?

When I had cable tv, I would flip between all three major cable channels in order to see what all of them were spinning. A lot of people do that.

Is 1+1 still 2 if MSNBC airs it I wonder?

If you think that it's any less biased than FOX, in what stories it chooses to cover or ignore, and how it spins them, then I guess you are as set and provincially narrow in your world view as Mark is....




.

You are so right Mark!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-L2tPWAaEi2.../obama_bow.jpg

Thar gunna take my guns. Romney for prez

Citizens in other countries complain about American handshakes just being a secret scheme to give their leaders cooties

But you didn't post any photos of Bush bowing?

A fact is a fact. Even if it's coated in bullshit; the underlying fact remains. Which was my point in asking you if the messenger matters when they report simple to verify facts.

Your point seems to be that there is not any source of actual true news left in the world. You could just state it that way if you felt that was the case.

I want to point out also that FOX news absolutely *requires* it's followers to believe that they are "just like everybody else". You're just putting their tagline out there but I guess you don't realise it.

I was lap dance raped last night. Will Romney if elected make me have the baby

Why, it is the SPIN he is putting on shit.

I HATE both sides, but don't try to talk down bowing, then say someone else did it or understood it whatever and post photos like you have proof. He is NO Better than the politicians playing with peoples heads.

I don't watch cable or satellite tv anyway.

So we should fire all the soldiers, the workers producing the arms and give the money they no longer have to people already well off to buy more imported goods. :upsidedow

Taxes > Employing people and building things > So those involved can go to the shops and buy things.

Cut taxes > Fire people don't build and support the unemployed > So those already buying can buy more. :upsidedow

Every bomb, missile, bullet, plane, tank, soldier is money being spent by the Government. And building an export industry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_in...arms_exporters

What would you do with your tiny tax cut. Buy an imported car, phone or TV?

This subject isn't as simple as many think.

This is where your solution lies.

http://www.businessinsider.com/usa-m...ca-2012-3?op=1

Read this and see the problem. Look at the jobs employing people, how many are producing something you can sell? http://www.businessinsider.com/the-3...america-2012-2

This upcoming election is making me choose between a clueless twerp and a block of wood.

You do not know WTF you are talking about. :2 cents:

As far as the original question: I suspect people will vote for Romney because they don't feel the US will survive another 4 years of Obama.

because unlike the current liberal in the white house, Romney isn't vilifying success and doesn't plan to single out the successful for future tax increases.
He also chose a VP that was a signal that they plan to attack the deficit and the bloated government.
4 years of having a loser like obama point towards his betters and tell them they don't pay their fair share when we've paid vastly more than he has is about all we need.
the rabble will feel differently.

or perhaps he believes like I do that you should get a fucking job and pay your own way in this world. The idea of taxes is for all of us to contribute to a better society, not for the best of us to be drained by the least of us who refuse to go out and earn their own living.

Pretty sure Obama not only makes more than you but is also more important than you.

pretty sure he doesn't, loser

Senate?

Harry Reid is in charge of the Senate. Harry Reid is a Democrat. The Democrats control the Senate. So tell me again how Republicans stood in the way of progress.

Whoever wrote that does not know the difference between the Senate and the Congress. Oh yes, he does mention the Congress in the last paragraph but starts out with the Senate, so which is it?

because white house is for whites :)

U.S. Identifies Vast Mineral Riches in Afghanistan

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...Mn-IvQvDRy&t=1
http://www.malcolmr.com/wp-content/i..._apec_bush.jpg
http://www.reformation.org/en-bush-king-abdullah.jpg
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...EUROPE-007.jpg
.. and not bowing :
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...h_abdullah.jpg

:)

get educated ... check post 107 ...

Strange... I didn't know Bush was running! :1orglaugh

yep .. strange .... Pornmasters brought it up .... as Obama apol;ogizes and BOW, but Bush didn't ... can't handle the truth ... ????

I didn't say I only get my poltical news from msnbc. I only asked if MSNBC is lying. Since I'm in Canada I also watch CTV and CBC. I also get the BBC, and of course, CNN, FOX, ABC etc.

That is my point. It seems from my point of view, that everything republicans say is a lie. My question in this thread might be "is this true?".

Answer me this : Obama made a speech about how business owners built their businesses, but also rely on roads, power, Internet etc, to grow their businesses. This was edited down to "You didn't build that" by the republicans who didn't just quote Obama out of context, but have it on signs, Tshirts and now even songs. Sorry, but Romney FUCKING LIED about this and it is CLEAR AS DAY. If he lied about this, (and Fox news backs up this lie all the time), how is anyone expected to trust him to run an entire country? And what else has he lied about? (Tax returns? Hello?)

If I have no clue, then neither do you. You and I get our news from the same sources but we (and Dems vs tops) seem to see and hear completely different things. If this is true, then who is right? And how can we find out who's right? And more importantly, how do you convince people who are wrong, that they are wrong?


Why do you compliment me and then insult me in the same post? I am only trying to raise a question and discussion here. I didn't call you or anyone else names. I am simply asking why people would vote for Romney. I, as a person outside of the US looking in, want to know because all of the news sources who say he is a liar, seem to have lots of sources to back up their positions. That is all.

http://www.reformation.org/en-bush-king-abdullah.jpg

Obama never apologized. It's a myth pushed forward again and again by the republicans.

It's kind of scary that you do not know what a filibuster is and how the minority party can use it their advantage. Pretty sure I knew what a filibuster was by middle school.

I guess now I know why your vote goes where it does.

Edit: and because you need it explained to you. The Senate is working against him using filibusters and the House is working against him because they control it. That is why you see mention of just the Senate as well as Congress when you throw in the House. Got it?