Chiropractors - Worth it? - GoFuckYourself.com

Verbal · 08-24-2012, 10:44 AM

Back pain has been an issue for me for years. I'm sure it's from exercise, lack of stretching and sitting on my ass working most of the day. I regularly get massages which help temporarily, however I've been thinking about trying a chiropractor. Has anybody had any good or bad results with them?

Any input would be appreciated.

cthulhu_waves · 08-24-2012, 10:47 AM

Expensive they are. But worth it they do.

Jman · 08-24-2012, 10:50 AM

Fuck the Chiro, you will only end up more fucked up. Physiotherapist or kinesiologist is your best bet. I been having back issues since 24 due to an accident and the day I stopped going to see a Chiro and started with a kinesiologist is the day I stopped having days of such big pains I could not do anything.

~Ray · 08-24-2012, 10:53 AM

pain in the back is a sign that you need a stronger front

do the sit down bench presses on a universal machine. that will help and you never have to stand up.

http://www.stayfitbug.com/wp-content...ut-routine.jpg

CDSmith · 08-24-2012, 10:58 AM

The definitely can be. (worth it)

As for the expense, just do some looking around. I did recently, and found that although most here are charging around $25 a visit and anywhere from $40-$100 for the initial consultation, I was able to find one in a nearby wellness center charging $20 per visit and $25 for the initial consult. And he's got most of the bells and whistles the other guys have.

The treatments made a noticeable difference for me this spring and over the summer, and my back problems are lifelong and stem from the scholiosis and corrective surgery I had way back in my teens.

cthulhu_waves · 08-24-2012, 11:00 AM

Just asking, how different is a kinesiologist to a chiro?

DWB · 08-24-2012, 11:03 AM

I used to have a lot of back paid. Went to a few chiropractors. Then I learned about ergonomics and I set up my work station properly and got the right chair. I still stretch from time to time, but now my wrist (was about to have carpel tunnel surgery) and back problems are gone. Now I build my office around my chair, and the chair is the single most important thing I have in the room. It saved my body.

DamianJ · 08-24-2012, 11:31 AM

Absolutely no evidence whatsoever that demonstrates it works. And people die.

That would be enough to steer me away from it.

Citations:

http://www.skepdic.com/chiro.html
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/

baryl · 08-24-2012, 12:17 PM

The whole thing is a scam. I have NEVER heard of someone going in and the chiropractor telling him, "no, you're perfectly fine!"

Many years ago I was in a car accident and my lawyer who was a little less than ethical had me visit one. I was perfectly fine but he kept insisting that my spine was fucked up and I need months of therapy, haha.

I kind of liked it but it's basically just an expensive, glorified massage.

keysync · 08-24-2012, 12:20 PM

My wife liked going regularly for a couple years. But her Chiropractor was a really good looking dude...

Markul · 08-24-2012, 12:23 PM

Regular exorcise and eating somewhat healthy will do the trick. Only go to a chiropractor if there is something specifically wrong they need to fix or you'll just blow your money.

baddog · 08-24-2012, 12:25 PM

Do not go to a chiropractor! Go to a doctor. A chiropractor may give you temporary relief but no one goes just once. They know how to tweak you so that relief lasts for a while and you will have to return.

Go to the doctor, find out the problem, then fix it with drugs and/or therapy.

GetSCORECash · 08-24-2012, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Go to the doctor, find out the problem, then fix it with drugs and/or therapy.

Pumping yourself with drugs for every back pain you have is not the solution.

A Chiropractor is the solution when you need minor relief, not for an accident that requires surgery.

PR_Glen · 08-24-2012, 12:44 PM

a lot of people in here don't know the difference between a bad experience with someone vs a bad idea.. pretty childish actually.

finding a good chiropractor is similar to finding a good doctor.. may take a few to find the one who knows what he/she is doing. Back when i was younger and it was covered by our healthcare i used to go to regular exams every 3 months or so, this guy would look at me for 5 seconds and send me on my way, was a complete waste of time and i thought it was stupid for even going at all.

As i got older and started to develop more pains in the back and muscles I was urged to check one out again, this time it was with a guy who was familiar with athletes and common problems. he fixed what was wrong with me but he also gave me a list of exercises so i wouldn't have to keep coming back and see him to do the same thing every few weeks. Another time i went in there thinking i did some damage to my knees, after about 2 minutes of examinations he spotted that it was a lower hamstring issue and not a knee injury, he worked out the scar tissue with some tools and i was 100% within a few days..

the days of random neck cracking and sending you on your way are long over, you guys need to update your bullshit...

seeandsee · 08-24-2012, 12:48 PM

He can help you, cheap bastard:
http://images5.fanpop.com/image/phot...6-1024-768.png

kane · 08-24-2012, 12:55 PM

My brother has slight scoliosis at the base of his spine. It was diagnosis when he was in high school. 85% of the time it doesn't bother him, but if he lifts heavy stuff or spends a lot of time bending and twisting it hurts. Of course, that he works construction doesn't help.

He has been to several doctors and basically they have all told him that the only real fix is surgery, but there are plenty of risks with that. When his back does go out and hurts he goes to a Chiropractor and they adjust it and he feels fine again. He ends up going 2-3 times per year, but to him it is option than surgery.

Tjeezers · 08-24-2012, 01:33 PM

so much trouble to do some standing up and stretching like any other desk worker?

homegrownmof · 08-24-2012, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Do not go to a chiropractor! Go to a doctor. A chiropractor may give you temporary relief but no one goes just once. They know how to tweak you so that relief lasts for a while and you will have to return.

Go to the doctor, find out the problem, then fix it with drugs and/or therapy.

I have been to both- Chiro, Doctor and Hospital via stretcher and ambulance.

I DONT recommend the doctor- they just want to feed you pills. Nice pills but they wont help you long term

Chiropractor doesnt want you fully healed either- they will RELIEVE your symptons with some adjustments but they want you to keep coming back regularly for new adjustments.

I would advise a comprehensive strategy of mainly LOSING WEIGHT, working with a highly recommended Sports doctor/physical therapist, and getting into Yoga (daily stretching is key).

It may take a while to correct your spine, and a lot of work and discipline. Good luck!

The Heron · 08-24-2012, 01:57 PM

Be sure to look into chiropractors and arterial problems, they can 'adjust' you and in the process cause major vascular problems.

GFED · 08-24-2012, 03:30 PM

I've already been through the loop. A doctor will send you to physical therapy or a chiropractor. Don't waste your money on any of them.

All roads will lead to exercise. You can find the types of exercise on Google. Doctors are a waste of money unless they're prescribing you pain pills.

Zeiss · 08-24-2012, 03:50 PM

Get kosmodisk from www.kosmodisk.com

DTK · 08-24-2012, 03:52 PM

I've had a great experience with chiro. I was suffering from pretty severe sciatica and he fixed me up.

Though as GFED said "All roads will lead to exercise". That's true. Had I been exercising, the sciatica would not have happened in the first place.

beemk · 08-24-2012, 04:11 PM

I had a shoulder have pain and the chiropractor fixed it.

kane · 08-24-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFED

I've already been through the loop. A doctor will send you to physical therapy or a chiropractor. Don't waste your money on any of them.

All roads will lead to exercise. You can find the types of exercise on Google. Doctors are a waste of money unless they're prescribing you pain pills.

I don't think you can emphasis how important exercise with back issues can be. My brother, who I mentioned above had chronic minor pain in his back. It was solved with a few ibuprofen, but he had to take them every day. He joined a gym and paid for three sessions with a trainer. He explained his back issue and she helped him come up with a great workout. Within a few months the constant minor pain was gone and now he only hurts when he does too much.

SilentKnight · 08-24-2012, 04:16 PM

I've also suffered from chronic backpain over the years - but mostly my experiences with chiropractors has been negative.

Last year I ended up with sciatica - pinched nerve in the lower back that went all the way down the leg. Before the problem was properly diagnosed by my doctor - initially I went the route of therapeutic massage...then progressed to chiropractor...then tried accupuncture.

I was in extreme pain - bedridden for months - and the chiropractor should have been able to diagnose the problem sooner...rather than keep me coming back for treatments that were doing literally nothing to solve the problem.

It finally took an MRI scan to figure it out - and then surgery.

I felt the chiropractor was nothing more than a money soak. I was not impressed to say the least.

ErectMedia · 08-24-2012, 04:22 PM

rolled a car maybe 15+ years ago damaged a disk or two in lower back, went to chiro he did 1 or 2 pops then I followed it up with an hour massage from a chick and combo of that had me feeling good for many months, did that combo a few times over the years whenever lower back would start to tighten and now doesn't hurt as bad or get tight like it used to so don't go anymore.

On the flipside my dad had some problems went and saw a different guy got popped and made him worse.

L-Pink · 08-24-2012, 04:23 PM

Don't you ever watch Two and a Half Men?

.

Verbal · 08-25-2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Don't you ever watch Two and a Half Men?

.

Never watched it. I might be the last person.

Grapesoda · 08-25-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Do not go to a chiropractor! Go to a doctor. A chiropractor may give you temporary relief but no one goes just once. They know how to tweak you so that relief lasts for a while and you will have to return.

Go to the doctor, find out the problem, then fix it with drugs and/or therapy.

bingo

baddog · 08-25-2012, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GetSCORECash

Pumping yourself with drugs for every back pain you have is not the solution.

If anti-inflamatories are warranted, they are warranted. If therapy is warranted, it is warranted. A chiropractor is never going to heal you. A doctor can. Not all back injuries are due to excessive weight or lack of exercise.

2MuchMark · 08-25-2012, 11:22 AM

Come on people are you serious? Chiropractors, like crystal lovers and other fools, are scammers. Even worse, half of them don't even know they are scammers.

Chiropractors are not NOT doctors. They are NOT trained in proper diagnosis and may delay referring you to a real doctor, even for life-threatening conditions. Even worse, chiropractors have a pseudoscientific belief system and often recommend dangerous, expensive, or bizarre treatments that are completely worthless.

rastan · 08-25-2012, 01:28 PM

100% yes, do it. I had a prob with my achilles and they told me WHY, what the problem was, how long it would take to fix and what the cost would be. And all were correct. I dont have achilles problems now, ergo Chairopractors kick ass

MediaGuy · 08-25-2012, 01:40 PM

I don't know. I went to a chiro for a while after I got kicked in the back by a calf. At first it was anti-inflammatory drugs, then a physio, but I still had issues. The chiro did a back-crack treatment that was one of the most relieving experiences of my life. A few more visits and my spine/back-muscles seemed to have re-aligned, and I never had to see her again.

Like I said, I don't know. My experience was salutory, I've also heard bad stories.

I also knew a guy who couldn't eat apples - when he did, his teeth hurt like he had gingivitis. Nothing he tried helped this, and his doctor of course couldn't recommend or prescribe a chiropractor. But that's where he ended up. Apparently it was some kind of nerve-pressure between his shoulder and neck or back that was causing the problem, and after about eight weeks of sessions, it went away. And this guy owned an orchard, so he thinks the chiro did it for him...

:D

shake · 08-25-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baryl

The whole thing is a scam. I have NEVER heard of someone going in and the chiropractor telling him, "no, you're perfectly fine!"

Many years ago I was in a car accident and my lawyer who was a little less than ethical had me visit one. I was perfectly fine but he kept insisting that my spine was fucked up and I need months of therapy, haha.

I kind of liked it but it's basically just an expensive, glorified massage.

I think that is pretty much true. I believe there are a few legitimate medical uses of Chiropractors, but they are one-off rare instances, if they had to rely on that 99% of them would be out of business.

On the plus side for them the way they are setup now, it's a great recurring business model

08-24-2012, 10:44 AM	#1
Verbal Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,420	Chiropractors - Worth it? Back pain has been an issue for me for years. I'm sure it's from exercise, lack of stretching and sitting on my ass working most of the day. I regularly get massages which help temporarily, however I've been thinking about trying a chiropractor. Has anybody had any good or bad results with them? Any input would be appreciated.

08-24-2012, 10:47 AM	#2
cthulhu_waves Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,966	Expensive they are. But worth it they do. __________________ DATINGFACTORY.COM WE BUILD YOUR BRAND, NOT OURS! Private Label *Dating* Solutions & Affiliate *Dating* Network.

08-24-2012, 10:50 AM	#3
Jman Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Canuckstikan Posts: 22,705	Fuck the Chiro, you will only end up more fucked up. Physiotherapist or kinesiologist is your best bet. I been having back issues since 24 due to an accident and the day I stopped going to see a Chiro and started with a kinesiologist is the day I stopped having days of such big pains I could not do anything. __________________ Wowify AI API Porn.AI Affiliates Porn AI email: [email protected] Teams: jean.francois.laverdiere TG: @jman1216

08-24-2012, 10:53 AM	#4
~Ray visit hardlinks.org Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas , Nv >>> [email protected] or icq 94994627 anytime Posts: 18,362	pain in the back is a sign that you need a stronger front do the sit down bench presses on a universal machine. that will help and you never have to stand up. http://www.stayfitbug.com/wp-content...ut-routine.jpg __________________ Adult Backlinks for Adult Websites - Testimonials Available

08-24-2012, 10:58 AM	#5
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	The definitely can be. (worth it) As for the expense, just do some looking around. I did recently, and found that although most here are charging around $25 a visit and anywhere from $40-$100 for the initial consultation, I was able to find one in a nearby wellness center charging $20 per visit and $25 for the initial consult. And he's got most of the bells and whistles the other guys have. The treatments made a noticeable difference for me this spring and over the summer, and my back problems are lifelong and stem from the scholiosis and corrective surgery I had way back in my teens. __________________ *Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!* ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!! Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634

08-24-2012, 11:00 AM	#6
cthulhu_waves Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,966	Just asking, how different is a kinesiologist to a chiro? __________________ DATINGFACTORY.COM WE BUILD YOUR BRAND, NOT OURS! Private Label *Dating* Solutions & Affiliate *Dating* Network.

08-24-2012, 11:03 AM	#7
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	I used to have a lot of back paid. Went to a few chiropractors. Then I learned about ergonomics and I set up my work station properly and got the right chair. I still stretch from time to time, but now my wrist (was about to have carpel tunnel surgery) and back problems are gone. Now I build my office around my chair, and the chair is the single most important thing I have in the room. It saved my body.

08-24-2012, 11:31 AM	#8
DamianJ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land Posts: 15,808	Absolutely no evidence whatsoever that demonstrates it works. And people die. That would be enough to steer me away from it. Citations: http://www.skepdic.com/chiro.html http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/

08-24-2012, 12:17 PM	#9
baryl Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,086	The whole thing is a scam. I have NEVER heard of someone going in and the chiropractor telling him, "no, you're perfectly fine!" Many years ago I was in a car accident and my lawyer who was a little less than ethical had me visit one. I was perfectly fine but he kept insisting that my spine was fucked up and I need months of therapy, haha. I kind of liked it but it's basically just an expensive, glorified massage.

08-24-2012, 12:20 PM	#10
keysync Living the Dream Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Murica Posts: 2,376	My wife liked going regularly for a couple years. But her Chiropractor was a really good looking dude... __________________

08-24-2012, 12:23 PM	#11
Markul Likes Pie Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The land that liberated porn Posts: 12,401	Regular exorcise and eating somewhat healthy will do the trick. Only go to a chiropractor if there is something specifically wrong they need to fix or you'll just blow your money.

08-24-2012, 12:25 PM	#12
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	Do not go to a chiropractor! Go to a doctor. A chiropractor may give you temporary relief but no one goes just once. They know how to tweak you so that relief lasts for a while and you will have to return. Go to the doctor, find out the problem, then fix it with drugs and/or therapy.

08-24-2012, 12:44 PM	#14
PR_Glen Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 9,058	a lot of people in here don't know the difference between a bad experience with someone vs a bad idea.. pretty childish actually. finding a good chiropractor is similar to finding a good doctor.. may take a few to find the one who knows what he/she is doing. Back when i was younger and it was covered by our healthcare i used to go to regular exams every 3 months or so, this guy would look at me for 5 seconds and send me on my way, was a complete waste of time and i thought it was stupid for even going at all. As i got older and started to develop more pains in the back and muscles I was urged to check one out again, this time it was with a guy who was familiar with athletes and common problems. he fixed what was wrong with me but he also gave me a list of exercises so i wouldn't have to keep coming back and see him to do the same thing every few weeks. Another time i went in there thinking i did some damage to my knees, after about 2 minutes of examinations he spotted that it was a lower hamstring issue and not a knee injury, he worked out the scar tissue with some tools and i was 100% within a few days.. the days of random neck cracking and sending you on your way are long over, you guys need to update your bullshit... __________________ webmaster at pimproll dot com

08-24-2012, 12:48 PM	#15
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	He can help you, cheap bastard: http://images5.fanpop.com/image/phot...6-1024-768.png __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

08-24-2012, 12:55 PM	#16
kane Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: portland, OR Posts: 20,684	My brother has slight scoliosis at the base of his spine. It was diagnosis when he was in high school. 85% of the time it doesn't bother him, but if he lifts heavy stuff or spends a lot of time bending and twisting it hurts. Of course, that he works construction doesn't help. He has been to several doctors and basically they have all told him that the only real fix is surgery, but there are plenty of risks with that. When his back does go out and hurts he goes to a Chiropractor and they adjust it and he feels fine again. He ends up going 2-3 times per year, but to him it is option than surgery.

08-24-2012, 01:33 PM	#17
Tjeezers Webmaster Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: BP4L - NL/RO Posts: 16,562	so much trouble to do some standing up and stretching like any other desk worker? __________________ Enroll in the SWAG Affiliate Asian Live Cam Program and get 9 free quality linkbacks from my network! Wanna see how old school I am? Look at this! All my Cam Review Sites are here!

08-24-2012, 01:57 PM	#19
The Heron Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 4,487	Be sure to look into chiropractors and arterial problems, they can 'adjust' you and in the process cause major vascular problems.

08-24-2012, 03:30 PM	#20
GFED Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 8,098	I've already been through the loop. A doctor will send you to physical therapy or a chiropractor. Don't waste your money on any of them. All roads will lead to exercise. You can find the types of exercise on Google. Doctors are a waste of money unless they're prescribing you pain pills. __________________ https://www.flow.page/savethechildren

08-24-2012, 03:50 PM	#21
Zeiss Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2012 Location: With your mom Posts: 5,189	Get kosmodisk from www.kosmodisk.com __________________ Adult Webmasters Guides

08-24-2012, 03:52 PM	#22
DTK Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The 510 Posts: 4,545	I've had a great experience with chiro. I was suffering from pretty severe sciatica and he fixed me up. Though as GFED said "All roads will lead to exercise". That's true. Had I been exercising, the sciatica would not have happened in the first place. __________________ Arguing whether the Democratic or Republican party is better is like debating which steaming pile of shit is slightly less stinky.

08-24-2012, 04:11 PM	#23
beemk CLICK HERE Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 20,829	I had a shoulder have pain and the chiropractor fixed it. __________________ I host with Vacares

08-24-2012, 04:16 PM	#25
SilentKnight Megan Fox's fluffer Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: shooting pool in Elysium Posts: 24,818	I've also suffered from chronic backpain over the years - but mostly my experiences with chiropractors has been negative. Last year I ended up with sciatica - pinched nerve in the lower back that went all the way down the leg. Before the problem was properly diagnosed by my doctor - initially I went the route of therapeutic massage...then progressed to chiropractor...then tried accupuncture. I was in extreme pain - bedridden for months - and the chiropractor should have been able to diagnose the problem sooner...rather than keep me coming back for treatments that were doing literally nothing to solve the problem. It finally took an MRI scan to figure it out - and then surgery. I felt the chiropractor was nothing more than a money soak. I was not impressed to say the least.

08-24-2012, 04:22 PM	#26
ErectMedia Confirmed Chicago Pimp Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 7,100	rolled a car maybe 15+ years ago damaged a disk or two in lower back, went to chiro he did 1 or 2 pops then I followed it up with an hour massage from a chick and combo of that had me feeling good for many months, did that combo a few times over the years whenever lower back would start to tighten and now doesn't hurt as bad or get tight like it used to so don't go anymore. On the flipside my dad had some problems went and saw a different guy got popped and made him worse. __________________ Domain Name Registration Web3 Domains

08-24-2012, 04:23 PM	#27
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151	Don't you ever watch Two and a Half Men? .

08-25-2012, 11:22 AM	#31
2MuchMark Videochat Solutions Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 48,795	Come on people are you serious? Chiropractors, like crystal lovers and other fools, are scammers. Even worse, half of them don't even know they are scammers. Chiropractors are not NOT doctors. They are NOT trained in proper diagnosis and may delay referring you to a real doctor, even for life-threatening conditions. Even worse, chiropractors have a pseudoscientific belief system and often recommend dangerous, expensive, or bizarre treatments that are completely worthless. __________________ Custom Software \| Server Management \| Integration and Technology Solutions https://www.2much.net

08-25-2012, 01:28 PM	#32
rastan Master(bater) Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 914	100% yes, do it. I had a prob with my achilles and they told me WHY, what the problem was, how long it would take to fix and what the cost would be. And all were correct. I dont have achilles problems now, ergo Chairopractors kick ass __________________ Rob \| Britsexcash.com \| @splatbukkake \| Skype: BritSexCash

08-25-2012, 01:40 PM	#33
MediaGuy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Montrealquebecanada Posts: 5,500	I don't know. I went to a chiro for a while after I got kicked in the back by a calf. At first it was anti-inflammatory drugs, then a physio, but I still had issues. The chiro did a back-crack treatment that was one of the most relieving experiences of my life. A few more visits and my spine/back-muscles seemed to have re-aligned, and I never had to see her again. Like I said, I don't know. My experience was salutory, I've also heard bad stories. I also knew a guy who couldn't eat apples - when he did, his teeth hurt like he had gingivitis. Nothing he tried helped this, and his doctor of course couldn't recommend or prescribe a chiropractor. But that's where he ended up. Apparently it was some kind of nerve-pressure between his shoulder and neck or back that was causing the problem, and after about eight weeks of sessions, it went away. And this guy owned an orchard, so he thinks the chiro did it for him... :D __________________ YOU Are Industry News! Press Releases: pr[at]payoutmag.com Facebook: Payout Magazine! Facebook: MIKEB! ICQ: 248843947 Skype: Mediaguy1