GFY Censorship - Affiliates: Do you trust MPA2/MPA3 programs? - THREAD GONE

[Konda]

what happened to the thread about MPA

"Affiliates: Do you trust MPA2/MPA3 programs?"
https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1077731

Why is GFY being censored ?

Companies can pay to have thread that are bad for their business removed?

[Ecchi22]

Why would they do that?

[papill0n]

im sending eric 20 to have this shit removed right now

[Lace]

LOL What a fucking joke.

[DWB]

IMHO it was a bullshit thread to begin with. It was over something that happened years ago and was corrected. Looked more like a troll thread than anything, just trying to stir up unnecessary drama or an unwarranted attack.

[anexsia]

Emailing Eric to have him send the hitmen out

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by DWB

IMHO it was a bullshit thread to begin with. It was over something that happened years ago and was corrected. Looked more like a troll thread than anything, just trying to stir up unnecessary drama or an unwarranted attack.

No offense DWB, but that should not be an option.

If a company can have old bullshit removed from GFY just because it happened years ago, that should apply to everyone equally. People bumping old bullshit when they get butthurt happens all of the fucking time on here. They should have to take their medicine like anyone else.

Whether I think it was a deliberate troll or not, really shouldn't matter. If those sorts of things are going to be outlawed or prohibited, it should become a standard rule to lock ALL of those threads, ban those bumping them, or whatever. In short, it should be 'fair' for everyone. Not selective.

You should not be able to buy a BRO drink, & have it just vanish because you do not like it.

[Major (Tom)]

Originally Posted by DWB

IMHO it was a bullshit thread to begin with. It was over something that happened years ago and was corrected. Looked more like a troll thread than anything, just trying to stir up unnecessary drama or an unwarranted attack.

yup
agreed
ds

[MrCain]

They handled the thread very well until they had it deleted. Now they look like they have something to hide.

[Major (Tom)]

nats fixed that exploit & fucked something else up & charged me 240 bucks to fix it. I'm still scratching my head over that one
ds

[VladS]

I didn't read the thread, but perhaps the OP just asked for the thread to be deleted?

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Gsx-R

I didn't read the thread, but perhaps the OP just asked for the thread to be deleted?

I started the thread and I did not ask for it to be deleted. I can't say that I am surprised. I think it had around a thousand views the last time I saw it so I know many people read it. Draw your own conclusions.

IMO, my last reply was probably the one which broke the camels back. I showed a post from 2003 where "garry" from mansion productions was commenting about charging $50 for a shave module and that being a good idea (he posted a wink emote probably to indicate it was a joke but still). Then I followed that up with a screenshot from 2004 showing the shave options in the mpa2 admin area with a message from Fabian (who worked for tmm at the time) confirming that the page in question was the first page sponsors see when entering a mpa2 program. I took screencaps of all those old messages by the way in case they disappeared. I didn't take one of the topic which got deleted itself but you can find the topic and the first few replies in the Google cache.

I think another aspect of this is that it makes some sponsors look very bad and I spoke about this in a reply. It was the first page in the mpa2 admin lounge yet how many people did the right thing and warned affiliates about it? Perhaps this has something to do with the thread vanishing? So many people with so much to hide though so it's hard to say what finally did it. Like I said, draw your own conclusions.

[signupdamnit]

And it wasn't a troll post. I was wanting input from other affiliates. I only discovered allt he new stuff because I started researching it after a mpa3 program suddenly collapsed on me in conversions and rebills. I knew vaguely of the incident in the past but I saw some new things this time around after researching.

Garry popped in and basically accused me of being a troll or part of a conspiracy. I stated some opinions (such as never seeing a real apology over the incident and all their comments about the incident being PR doublespeak) and asked them to post where they had made a single honest apology in the past or where they honestly explained the incident. They then posted some old AVN article where they didn't really apologize and made a claim that basically the shaving features were to "help fight affiliate fraud". I then replied asking them to explain how the "shave all webmasters" and "shave individual webmasters" features were to help prevent "affiliate fraud" but I don't recall them ever replying again to the topic.

My original intent wasn't to start shit with mansion. In fact if they would have posted an honest apology and explanation at any time or linked to one in the past I probably would have left the whole thing alone. The thing is I think the owner of Mansion Productions is too proud to sincerely apologize and too "slick" to think he should have to honestly explain things without the PR speak or double talk. To be honest this bugs me much more than the original incident itself. Anyway I think I learned enough of what I needed to know AND THEN SOME.

[k0nr4d]

GFY isn't really a democracy, it's a privately owned forum. If something isn't in the interests of the owner or the owner's friends, it may get removed. Simple as that - just gotta learn to live with it.

[CyberHustler]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

GFY isn't really a democracy, it's a privately owned forum. If something isn't in the interests of the owner or the owner's friends, it may get removed. Simple as that - just gotta learn to live with it.

That's just the bottom line.

You guys don't want shit deleted, host it yourself.

[Phoenix]

what is your horse in this Konda?

[Major (Tom)]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

GFY isn't really a democracy, it's a privately owned forum. If something isn't in the interests of the owner or the owner's friends, it may get removed. Simple as that - just gotta learn to live with it.

yup pretty much it in a nutshell.
ds

[Konda]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

what is your horse in this Konda?

Nothing. Got nothing against mpa, just noticed it was deleted because I was active in the thread and couldn't find it anymore.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Konda

Nothing. Got nothing against mpa, just noticed it was deleted because I was active in the thread and couldn't find it anymore.

okie...just wondering.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

GFY isn't really a democracy, it's a privately owned forum. If something isn't in the interests of the owner or the owner's friends, it may get removed. Simple as that - just gotta learn to live with it.

Konrad for da win!

[DWB]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

No offense DWB, but that should not be an option.

If a company can have old bullshit removed from GFY just because it happened years ago, that should apply to everyone equally. People bumping old bullshit when they get butthurt happens all of the fucking time on here. They should have to take their medicine like anyone else.

Whether I think it was a deliberate troll or not, really shouldn't matter. If those sorts of things are going to be outlawed or prohibited, it should become a standard rule to lock ALL of those threads, ban those bumping them, or whatever. In short, it should be 'fair' for everyone. Not selective.

You should not be able to buy a BRO drink, & have it just vanish because you do not like it.

Advertiser perks.

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

IMO, my last reply was probably the one which broke the camels back. I showed a post from 2003....

[CaptainHowdy]

GFY isn't a democracy ...

[BAKO]

That's good that it's gone. Now u have a topic to talk about. Something empty that GFY is use to.

[webgurl]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

GFY isn't really a democracy, it's a privately owned forum. If something isn't in the interests of the owner or the owner's friends, it may get removed. Simple as that - just gotta learn to live with it.

Yep Konrad is correct

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

GFY isn't really a democracy, it's a privately owned forum. If something isn't in the interests of the owner or the owner's friends, it may get removed. Simple as that - just gotta learn to live with it.

I think most of us know already that AVN and GFY is corrupt. There have been dozens of incidents like this. The one before this I remember was the old posts with whois data for filesonic being deleted because they showed a connection to mansef.

The way I see it at least 500 people already seen it. That it was deleted in my opinion only tells me I was right to post it in the first place.

If I really wanted I could just post it on every other forum as well as 500 other places and there is nothing Mansion, AVN could do. I don't care that much about it though.

[TurboAngel]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

No offense DWB, but that should not be an option.

If a company can have old bullshit removed from GFY just because it happened years ago, that should apply to everyone equally. People bumping old bullshit when they get butthurt happens all of the fucking time on here. They should have to take their medicine like anyone else.

Whether I think it was a deliberate troll or not, really shouldn't matter. If those sorts of things are going to be outlawed or prohibited, it should become a standard rule to lock ALL of those threads, ban those bumping them, or whatever. In short, it should be 'fair' for everyone. Not selective.

You should not be able to buy a BRO drink, & have it just vanish because you do not like it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[LeRoy]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

You should not be able to buy a BRO drink, & have it just vanish because you do not like it.

Gotta love BRO drinks

[Fat Panda]

gfy has become a joke

[epitome]

LOL I mentioned MPA programs I tried convert for shit and was accused of making unsubstantiated accusations. Apparently talking about my own experiences is making accusations.

Keep in mind this was in a thread where Oy said people should promote the programs on his platform.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I think most of us know already that AVN and GFY is corrupt.

What gave it away?

Was it their involvement in a file sharing site, or when they let the industries largest pirate give the keynote speech at the show and hold a seminar on how to profit from stolen content?

[DWB]

Originally Posted by epitome

LOL I mentioned MPA programs I tried convert for shit and was accused of making unsubstantiated accusations.

I'm curious how you think affiliate tracking software hurts sales. Both NATS and MPA send a user to the biller the program owner sets up, tracking the user along the way. Neither approve or deny a user on their own. Maybe I'm missing something, but I would put the blame on the site owner and billing companies they use.

[Freaky_Akula]

I was always slightly suspicious of MPA programs. Now that they had that thread deleted, I will avoid MPA programs at all cost. You do not have a thread deleted unless you have something very shady to hide.

[alias]

So how long do you think this thread will last?

[epitome]

Originally Posted by DWB

I'm curious how you think affiliate tracking software hurts sales. Both NATS and MPA send a user to the biller the program owner sets up, tracking the user along the way. Neither approve or deny a user on their own. Maybe I'm missing something, but I would put the blame on the site owner and billing companies they use.

Use your imagination and think about the thread that was deleted.

[Yanks_Todd]

Originally Posted by Freaky_Akula

I was always slightly suspicious of MPA programs. Now that they had that thread deleted, I will avoid MPA programs at all cost. You do not have a thread deleted unless you have something very shady to hide.

This is why the thread got deleted, sideways logic like this. Mansion made a decsion 10 years ago (a bad one, apologized (a weak one) and reversed course (a good decision)).

Since then solid programs have signed up to use what I think is one of the top 5?, 3? 2? affiliate software platforms in the industry YEARS after that drama. These programs more then likely never knew about it, certainly had nothing to do with it and have had no drama themselves that they deserve your comments.

And then Freaky_Akula drops a nugget like that.

What's your logic dude?

I personally liked the thread and think it should be back up. GFY is owned by AVN, supposedly the industry media. Private or not censoring what is really an amazing online forum of truth, lies and opinions of all kind is a shame.

AVN should get with the program there. And Freaky, use your brain.

[epitome]

The whole "that was a long time ago and it was removed" thing doesn't sit well with me. I think it is an indicator of someone's ethics. Sure it was removed from the default script but the fact it was ever included in the first place is an indicator of ethics, IMHO. What if someone quietly comes along and asks for such a feature? Would they say "no way, that is wrong and we will never allow such a thing!" If so, why wasn't it like that the first time around? The feature was removed only after it was brought to light, no?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

This is why the thread got deleted, sideways logic like this.

Deleted threads ALWAYS lead to "sideways logic." Always.

It only brings more attention to an issue that would have been let go soon enough. Now there is more fuel on the fire. This thread will go on for another two pages, mainly of people talking about suspicious activities and why they don't trust so and so.

[Roald]

Originally Posted by Sly

Deleted threads ALWAYS lead to "sideways logic." Always.

It only brings more attention to an issue that would have been let go soon enough. Now there is more fuel on the fire. This thread will go on for another two pages, mainly of people talking about suspicious activities and why they don't trust so and so.

thats why I never understand the deleting of threads anyways.

[The Porn Nerd]

I can understand a thread being closed or even deleted if it's about someone's reputation being soiled wrongly (meaning, someone accused them of something illegal but the accusation was false, etc).

Could this fall under that category? Just asking.

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by Sly

Deleted threads ALWAYS lead to "sideways logic." Always.

It only brings more attention to an issue that would have been let go soon enough. Now there is more fuel on the fire.

Exactly. Now people are and will be speculating about what's going on when the original thread could have been used to promote their product. The best thing they can do is bring the deleted thread back and calmly reply to questions and comments there.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

I can understand a thread being closed or even deleted if it's about someone's reputation being soiled wrongly (meaning, someone accused them of something illegal but the accusation was false, etc).

Could this fall under that category? Just asking.

I don't see where someone's reputation could be getting soiled when the whole incident is very well documented across various boards though.

Here is the original topic and the first few replies:

http://tinypic.com/r/34he1s9/6

or http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...t=clnk&g l=us

From my last post in the deleted thread:

http://tinypic.com/r/98sxlc/6

5-26-2003:

Originally Posted by garry

This $50 extra for shaving is a good one though. III might take you up on that one and add that to our price. ;)
Just remember, programs do not shave, Webmasters do!

A screenshot of the mpa2 top admin screen showing the shave feature which was latter present in early 2004 (not the date of Garry's post above)



Note that Sextronix has claimed that the screenshot is forged. I don't know about that. However other people such as Fabian from Manwin confirmed this was the mpa2 top admin screen at the time when he worked at TMM/Nats. So that part is not in dispute.

I know I haven't made any erroneous statements. Only the truth. No apologies will be forthcoming from me.

[OY]

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

I can understand a thread being closed or even deleted if it's about someone's reputation being soiled wrongly (meaning, someone accused them of something illegal but the accusation was false, etc).

Could this fall under that category? Just asking.

Bingo - we have a winner.

The thread is not deleted, but moved to a closed off section where it can be retrieved in the event of future legal reasons.

But with that said, over the years we have been hounded, spat on, harassed, and lied about over and over again. Most times by the same people, or the same people behind it. It has not been fair, and it has been repeated over and over again. It is of course damaging to us, but more importantly, it could be damaging to our clients - which is the last thing we would ever want. So when this came up again this time, by someone behind yet another "nick", the final straw was broken.

Since the MPA2 (not MPA3) incident a DECADE ago took place, we have repeatedly apologized.

It has been many many years, and many things have happened in our industry. With us, our clients, and our competition.

Here are some posts in OLD threads that hopefully can shed some light on the issue:

01/02/2006: https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=8980451&postcount=34

Highlight of post by Garry:

"I will tell the story again.

When we started to write the MPA2 program like 6 ( SIX ) years ago we got told that this would probably be a great feature to add. Stupid as we where we wrote this in and started to promote the program, then we pretty fast got reactions from not only webmasters who have seen the online demo BUT also from program owners. We realized how stupid this was and we took it out from the code.

Yes we did a mistake and we are really sorry for that. But we where just a programming company that programmed what was requested at that time. You have to remember that the adult business was totally different back in 2000 when we first wrote the mpa2, and the code wasn't for long in the program either before we took it out of all programs!"

12/07/2004: https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=6014128&postcount=1

Highlight of post by Garry:

"Yes we did a bad choice when we gave after for adding the module and for that we are sorry, but we have learned and we have paid our price. "

**

Signupdamnit (whoever you "anonymous" person is) - We find it highly suspicious that you have spent so much time on finding negative information about us after all those years, yet couldn't find these. Did you do all this work all on your own?

Things that makes you go hmmmmm...

Oystein

[gleem]

Well the whole thing was that screenshot of MPA2 shave module was the physical proof we all finally got that there was 100% for sure, for real industry shaving.... before that everyone knew there was shaving, but this was the first real hardcore evidence at just how prevalent it was. Honestly back then, I didn't give a fuck if they took 10% off the top... shit was easy to make anyways.

That is why this is always brought up every couple years... it was a milestone in adult affiliate history us oldschooler's won't ever forget.

[corvette]

this was 8 years ago, not very relevant in my opinion

[Adraco]

Question from someone who was not around at that time and thereby unaffected:
How long exactly was the shaving feature in the system? It should be pretty easy to go back in time and just show the version numbers, where it started and where it ended.

Also, to be speaking about that "we have paid our price" in an apology shows that you seem utterly focused on YOU having paid (lost) enough sales/income and want to move on. What about the hundreds or maybe even thousands of affiliates who got screwed out of their income because of your shaving feature? All you seem to have to offer them is:
"Yes we did a mistake and we are really sorry for that. But we where just a programming company that programmed what was requested at that time."
Yeah, that very nice, sincere and most of all deep apology will really help to ease the pain of people who got royally assfucked from this...

That all makes your slogan "We make affiliates and program owners more money" ring pretty empty to me.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by OY

Bingo - we have a winner.

The thread is not deleted, but moved to a closed off section where it can be retrieved in the event of future legal reasons.

But with that said, over the years we have been hounded, spat on, harassed, and lied about over and over again. Most times by the same people, or the same people behind it. It has not been fair, and it has been repeated over and over again. It is of course damaging to us, but more importantly, it could be damaging to our clients - which is the last thing we would ever want. So when this came up again this time, by someone behind yet another "nick", the final straw was broken.

Since the MPA2 (not MPA3) incident a DECADE ago took place, we have repeatedly apologized.

It has been many many years, and many things have happened in our industry. With us, our clients, and our competition.

Here are some posts in OLD threads that hopefully can shed some light on the issue:

01/02/2006: https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=8980451&postcount=34

Highlight of post by Garry:

"I will tell the story again.

When we started to write the MPA2 program like 6 ( SIX ) years ago we got told that this would probably be a great feature to add. Stupid as we where we wrote this in and started to promote the program, then we pretty fast got reactions from not only webmasters who have seen the online demo BUT also from program owners. We realized how stupid this was and we took it out from the code.

Yes we did a mistake and we are really sorry for that. But we where just a programming company that programmed what was requested at that time. You have to remember that the adult business was totally different back in 2000 when we first wrote the mpa2, and the code wasn't for long in the program either before we took it out of all programs!"

12/07/2004: https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=6014128&postcount=1

Highlight of post by Garry:

"Yes we did a bad choice when we gave after for adding the module and for that we are sorry, but we have learned and we have paid our price. "

**

Signupdamnit (whoever you "anonymous" person is) - We find it highly suspicious that you have spent so much time on finding negative information about us after all those years, yet couldn't find these. Did you do all this work all on your own?

Things that makes you go hmmmmm...

Oystein

So you admit that you had it moved? "Future legal reasons" What are you going to do sue everyone for telling the truth? If that's the case then it definitely doesn't look like you guys changed very much in the last decade.....

What you really should do now is ask that the old topic be restored in full to show you have nothing to hide. Then quit trying to call everyone who ever brings up the incident a troll or a member of some sort of conspiracy against you. Let time heal your wounds.

The only reason I replied in the old topic was because the link to the "apology" (even Yanks_Todd admitted it was weak) you gave before was a very weak apology and your excuse cited was that you put the shave feature in to "help prevent affiliate fraud". For you to still be advancing that lame bullshit excuse in 2012 just shows there are ethical problems still on your end. Not to mention it being an insult to the intelligence of affiliates. IMO, this is much worse than the original incident itself.

Try being honest, admit your mistakes, and quit trying to push people around. Then you won't have to have threads removed or have people bringing up your skeletons. I gain nothing by doing this but I did it because your actions necessitated it.

[Why]

Originally Posted by [Maarten]

Didn't the MPA guys even made a thread themselves last week to bash on Nats recent issues (affiliate databases hacked and spammed by WTFBucks)

So they are allowed to do that, but when someone says something bad about them they can just get it deleted?

wait wait wait... you mean this is happening again? all the nats databases were "stolen" and later spammed?

didnt this go down a few years ago as well?

its like i leave GFY for a few weeks and we went back in time.

[Why]

i can say that both sextronix and the fuckers that run collegefuckfest both stole revenues from my accounts using the built in shave feature that was once in MPA. to the tune of $10,000+. that being said...

why beat on OY? he has said he is sorry a million times and even ive kicked him around a bit for it. Ultimately guns dont kill people, people kill people.

Mansion as a company did not steal from you, the idiots running the programs did.

shaving with nats is very easy to do if you know what your doing. all you have to do is change the program that is in the nats code on links to join, to a hidden program the user does not have access to. throw in a random function to only take X % and your now stealing joins.

moral... dont do business with people you dont trust?

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Adraco

Question from someone who was not around at that time and thereby unaffected:
How long exactly was the shaving feature in the system? It should be pretty easy to go back in time and just show the version numbers, where it started and where it ended.

From the testimony of others on various boards I know it was in there for at least part of 2003 and 2004. There are some honest sponsors who spoke out about it such as the people from medium pimpin.

In OY's referenced post from 2006 they seem to imply (six years ago) that the feature might have been present as early as 2000. So that's potentially four years from 2000 to 2004. I may have misinterpreted.

[MrCain]

Originally Posted by Why

wait wait wait... you mean this is happening again? all the nats databases were "stolen" and later spammed?

WTFbucks spammed webmasters who joined the lords of porn, niceratios, vidz and eurorevenue affiliate programs. All programs were on NATS3. Little after, TMM released a security patch for NATS3. Xxxjay from lords of porn and Nicky from Eurorevenue responded and were angry at the hackers. After a massive outcry, WTFbucks made a weak apology for what they referred to as "the incident". Curiously, the niceratios representative on this board, michael.kickass has not yet commented, but keeps kissing WTFbucks' butt in the WTFbucks promotional threads.