allright allright... enough being funny... i`m going to bed:-)

good night!

DWL LOL :1orglaugh. not cool Tommy!!!!

Thank for the input man.

have a good one.

A gateway is a type of processor. The difference between a gateway and a 3rd party IPSP (Internet payment service provider) is whether the merchant has their own merchant account with a bank, such as Humboldt or Merrick, or if they're accepting payment via use of a payment processor's merchant account. Companies like EPOCH, ccBill, and SegPay are 3rd party IPSPs. Companies like Netbilling and Orbital Pay are companies that will act as an agent to partner you with a merchant account at a bank and then offer you gateway services. My company, CommerceGate / DHD Media, has both of these services and can provide either solution.

With a gateway, the merchant has their own merchant account, and this enables them to take risks with their processing, control the fraud and customer service, and reduce the costs of processing. Gateway services capture the credit data for the merchant and feed it to their account for them. Gateway services can be as little as "card auth and capture only" where the client handles the scrub, the member services, the refunds etc. Gateway services can also be as much as a full service system that covers everything a 3rd party IPSP would do for you, but still allow you to utilize your own merchant account.
Advantages: You have a lot more control over your business, rates are generally cheaper, you manage your own risk and therefore can be riskier if it suits you. You get paid much more quickly with a gateway.
Disadvantages: You manage your own risk, which makes you ultimately responsible for not getting shut down and might lead to a lot more work for your company than an IPSP will. You need to have a much larger volume and a substantial processing history to get a merchant account (at least with the banks I partner to sell accounts for).

With a 3rd party IPSP, you are being boarded as one entity on a large merchant account shared with other boarded entities. The processor holds the account with the bank and protects itself and the account by being very strict with risk and compliance regulations. The processor manages the risk carefully for the benefit of all clients boarded. This type of processing usually manage everything for you for a percentage, so it is very simple and low buy-in for your business.
Advantages: You don't have to manage anything... you make sites and concentrate on your business and the IPSP does everything else payment related for you. The processor keeps your PCI compliance, produces join pages for you, manages the risk, scrub, and customer support, etc. Using an IPSP is effectively work-free because you're paying for full service processing, and hopefully getting it. You're often able to make beneficial partner deals with other clients boarded on the same IPSP as the model lends to cooperation.
Disadvantages: Your money gets to you slower in this system. This system is built for the middle of the road client and is less adjustable or customizable because many clients are boarded together. It is generally more expensive with less freedom.

My company, CommerceGate / DHD Media, can handle both types of business on both sides of the pond. Our US and EU IPSP take a flat rate % for processing, and the fees are dependent upon volume. In the US, we assess a start up fee on behalf of VISA, but we have no start up fees of our own. In the EU the VISA fee is not required. We have a hold reserve to protect everyone on the IPSP. We hold a percentage for 6 months, and then release it weekly after that. Our implementation is pretty straightforward. We have an in-house, dedicated team of developers to assist each integration. We have API available and are integrated into NATS, MPA3, and have integration sets for the most common shopping carts, etc. On our US and EU merchant accounts and gateway services, throwing out quotes becomes much more specialized. The merchant bank will take a percentage for your account, and our Gateway will assess a "per transaction" fee on top of that for gateway services. The fee has a break down depending on what portions of the gateway you need to use (fees for risk, member services, etc), In this business model, there is still a hold reserve but it is the merchant bank that assesses it. Our Gateway only holds to protect ACH or EU Direct Debit processing in this case. Integration is the same in either case.

I hope this letter has been informative. I've generalized a lot but my aim is to be helpful and balanced. It is my opinion that each and every processing type is the "perfect fit" for some businesses and only research and understanding on the client's part will help them find what works for them.

I'll be sending you an e-mail so we can review your numbers over the numbers in your specific case and get you a custom quote.

That is a good explanation Amanda. I hope you are well.

I use epoch and CCBill but looking for someone great for mobile. Any suggestions contact is in my sig

Where in the Caribbean are you located?

I've posted my views on Epoch, CCBill and Verotel a few times on here before.
Epoch remains my favourite for reasons explained in other threads, but the best one for me is that payouts hit my UK bank account the same day they are sent (every Friday). CCBill and Verotel wires take 2 to 4 days to clear in my account normally, I'm not sure how it's so quick with Epoch but I'm not complaining.
I really like the epoch affiliate system and I'm trying to convince my affiliates that switching from CCBill would be the way ahead, but unfortunately most appear blinkered and stuck in their ways!

CCBill have always been rock solid for me, as have Verotel.
However, I use Verotel less these days because I think their extra 1.5% fee on rebills
Is a bit of a rip off!

I am well! Thanks, Mitch. I'm super pregnant and happy / ready to be done. :thumbsup

This is why I won't be in Montreal or the Europe shows for anyone who misses me.

Thank you so much. You know I did some research and found that for subscription its best to go with third-party billers rather than with a Gateway/merchant accounts. The main benefit i found was that the third-party biller handle all the bank queries for you.

What do you think? thank you.

Hi

I am from Jamaica.

Hi

I have mobiles versions for all my sites. I find that segpay have a great mobile join page. as I used them too. I also fine GXbill to be great for mobiles too. However, GXBill mainly do 900, Direct Debit, Pay via SMS ,etc. Mainly alternative payment methods. I personally find their system to be very very good. They can have their system integrate well with what ever system you are running, including NATS of course.

:)

Hi Buddy,

Thank you so much for posting in this thread.

Can you tell me more about the services that Verotel offers and what are the main pros and cons you find with them apart from what you have said of the extra 1.5% of rebills? Thank you.

I also have a problem trying to convince my affiliates to go with Epoch as most keep saying they don't like Epoch, they seem to like CCBill and Verotel. You have any idea why this may be?

Thank you so much again.

Hi again,

In my first respond to you reply, i did it before ready as i just wanted to be quick then come back later to read. now i have read it all, I find it to be very very well explained. I want to thank you very much for the information. I have been thinking about doing a Merchant account for the future, not so far future.

Tell me please what is a Scrub?

I am really looking forward to your email.

Thank you so much again, and good luck with your delivery when it comes.

This is not true. Actually when working with a company like NETbilling or other gateway processors that have a call center and strong bank relationships, we handle bank inquires for you and save you a ton of $. We have seen that smaller merchants are better off with a third party biller but as you grow you will certainly want the control, flexibility and savings that you simply cannot get with a 3rd party processor as essentially the customer does not belong to you when using third party, they belong to the biller. Without you holding the merchant account, you have no right to any of the credit card opt billing info of the consumer if you are not the merchant account holder, putting you at a disadvantage.

Mitch

Verotel have really nice join forms now and their admin interface provides everything you need while loading fast.
One big downside which puts them lower than other leading processors is that Verotel don't have 24/7 support. I think its Monday to Friday 9 to 5 or something like that. I have piece of mind with CCBill and Epoch that I can speak to anyone 24/7 365 days a year if I need to.

Thank you Mitch,

I have three questions for you.

What is credit card opt billing info?

What you say is a reasonable monthly sales volume to be doing to really benefit from a Merchant Acount as oppose to a Third-Party biller? So what is the volume that is suited for Third-party biller and what is volume that is good for Merchant Accounts?
Say $100,000 month sales, is that what it takes to benefit from a Merchant account? Also i did not know the you could get good customer support with a merchant account, I thought otherwise. And having a good relationship with the bank is great.

Thridly why are these "control, flexibility and savings" you spoke of? Can you be more specific?

Thank you so much in advance Mitch. :)

Thanks man.

You know, i have Segpay and CCBill, Sepay do not have 24/7 support for clients either but they have just lunched a new Suit that can run on my Mac through Adobe SilverLight. That helped me a lot. before I have to use IE, that mean I have to find a windows computer every time i want to see my admin. That sucked. CCBill have an good enough Admin but very Slow be my standards lol. But they seem fine in other areas.

I am seriously considering Epoch as I keep hearing lots of great things about them. I will do a few great Third-Party billers until I can get a Merchant account. As it would seem you can see way more of you sales revenues there.

What do you think?

Thanks again.

cariflav

Also consider http://www.Zombaio.com we have no set up fees and low rates so it will not cost you anything to try us out.
We pay via RedPass, check, wire and ACH.

Let me know if there is anything I can do for you.
[email protected]

Any of the 3rd party billers mentioned in this thread should do a good job for you as you start out and grow. After you have six months of processing history, please contact us and we will show you all that we can do for you and to help grow your business.

All the best, Mitch

Thank you Mitch. I will do that.

Have a great day man. :)

Did you know that SegPay changes for ChargeBacks and and refunds. I saw this before but now I just feeling it hard. That took a nice chunk out me revenue, this is very bad. Take a look at this.

"Fees for Credit Card Services Refunds. Client shall be charged $1.00 per Refund issued against Client's account. The Refund Fee may be increased in SegPay's reasonable discretion with thirty (30) days prior written notice given to the Client."

if you think that is harsh, then take a look at this!!!

"Fees for Credit Card Services Chargebacks. Client shall be charged $25.00 per valid Chargeback processed against Client's account. Fees assessed against Client hereunder, if any, shall be applied in the month immediately following the month in which the Chargebacks were processed."

$25 per chargebacks!! My god this is harsh man.

From my understanding, if i make a sales of $3 for three days trial and it was chargeback, you are telling me I will have to pay $25 for that chargeback?

I have decisions to make here and now.

Can anyone please tell me if this is the norm for all 3rd party billers?

Please please, any info would be very much appreciated.

Thank you so much in advance.

Thank you for the info, i am sorry I am just seeing this.

Thanks again

You as well. In comparison, you will pay about 1/2 once you do switch to NETbilling in the future and have more control. All the best!

Hi Mitch,

Please explain, "In comparison, you will pay about 1/2 once you do switch to NETbilling". I do not understand.

Thanks a mil.

Some providers charge for chargebacks, others don't.
In general (but by no means a rule), you may expect a lower %fee on your transactions, if you are to pay for chargebacks. There's quite a few other variables in the mix, though (how many denials, how good are the tools, how financially trustworthy is the biller, etc etc.)

If you have a lot of chargebacks, you probably want to have a biller that does not charge you for that (of course). Overall, I don't think there's a "perfect" one-size-fits-all biller, just look at your variables and choose depending on pros and cons of each :-)

hth and good luck!:thumbsup

The focus should not be what you spend for the services you get. The focus should be where do you make the most money and what service works best for you. Focusing on cost per transaction, or who charges what for what is easy to see on paper, but does not tell the full story. The bottom line is.. the bottom line.

.

Thank you so much for the info. But Sepgay rates are higher then both Epoch and CCBill. So I am not sure if what you said about expecting lower rates if chargebacks are charge will apply to segpay. LOL.

Thank you so much for your info I really appreciates it. You guys have been very helpful.

Thank you Johnny. But I would like to hear more about why you say they have been good. What are the expects of Zombaio that you have found to be so great?

Thank you so much in advance.

You have a point, but if I have 10% Chargebacks and is cost $25 per chargeback, that really cut into the bottom line man. LOL. Also that is a part of the service fees as well.

Tell me this, do you charge for chargebacks and if you do what are these charges?

Orlando

Epoch should be at the top of your list for a 3rd party IPSP.

There are good reasons why they have been around so long and so many big programs use them.

Sam is that you, how have you been? Well i have started a process to get with Epoch. As I have heard so many good things about them.

Thank you for the advice man.

If you have 10% chargebacks you may have bigger concerns to deal with.

To answer your question, however, Epoch does charge $12.50 per chargeback.


.

Yep i know, i have to start look closely at how affiliates make their sales.

Thank for the advice.

Hi quick question, do you contest Chargebacks or refunds?

Thanks Again.

Epoch has nearly seventeen years of experience processing transactions and handling refunds and chargebacks. We have a 24/7/365 customer support department which can respond to customers via phone, chat, or email. Our record for helping our merchants remain below the card association thresholds speaks for itself. While I won't go into the details about how we do that here, note that we have established relationships with banks who know us and work with us, and every ethical manner of managing your portfolio is in place to help make sure you make, and keep, your money making you and your customers happy. We have several measures at our disposal to do this, including disputing chargebacks on a case-by-case basis.


.

Sound good, I Will be doing Epoch, and I checks my CBacks are just 1.3% I calculated base on days rather than by the months. Hence I got a high percentage before.

But still as program owner, we still need to make sure of what our affiliates are doing when they are selling our sites. This is important, as if they portray our products in any way different from what we actually have, that can lead to higher refunds and CBacks.

Thank for the help again.

Sounds great!

You can begin the process to activate our services by going to https://epoch.com/our_services.html

Or, by writing to [email protected]

You'll be taking international transactions in no time. :thumbsup

.

thanks man!

When you have your own merchant account, you control how refunds are handled. Chargebacks come from the banks so a processor does not control that. However, you have the option to fight disputes with your own merchant account using a system like ours that you do not get with a 3rd party processor. If you have the volume, which you state that you do, you have a choice to be in control or not. We are happy to discuss all of the services that we can provide and show you around our system. You will be impressed and save $$.

Mitch

Thank you Mitch, please drop me a line via email. I would like to hear more about your services.

You see I am really on the hunt, for good billing solutions that best fits my needs.

Thanks a mil

Our merchants pay about 7-9% on average, all inclusive. Compare that to 15-18% which is what most 3rd party processors charge.

I sent you an email and we can setup a call and explain further and show you all of the services that we offer.

Thank you, Mitch Farber

Thanks got your email. Yes we can talk. I am looking at other service providers too. Eg. CommerceGate.

As well as other 3rd Party billers for the short-term.

You know, I have too have a good procurement policy. have to get the best "BANG!" for my buck. LOL

Thanks Mitch.

One more thing of note regarding processing with an IPSP, as opposed to using your own merchant account. Traffic trades with other sites is much easier with a 3rd party processor.

Additionally, Epoch offers you far more methods of payment than you could manage or acquire on your own, complete with currency conversion and language translation. Your join/payment form and all customer correspondence is custom generated for each transaction to best suit your individual international customer.

And with Epoch your customers have access to live customer service 24/7/365 in virtually every language. In house, not out-sourced, and professionally trained to reduce refunds and increase retention of your customers.

Get more customers through the door by making Epoch your primary billing solution.



.

Can someone post tips/tricks on Charge Back balancing between merchant accounts?

Yeah but most of the time, the fight is useless.

When a surfer files a ChargeBack with a "Transaction not recognized" or "Fraudulent transaction" - good luck appealing to the bank and reversing the chargeback. The bank will side with the surfer most of the time, and you cant prove anything.

Why i don't like 3rd party processors (i.e. Epoch, Zombaio, Segpay, etc) - they scrub (dont let through) waay too many transactions, and therefore you lose potential members and money. Their join pages are also designed in a way that scare away a lot of buyers. For example, their join pages often have big, highly visible text about reccuring prices and membership conversions, that scares surfers away. Also, cross-sales (extra revenue that you can't survive without) are not an option most of the time, or too, written in big red text that scares away the buyers. 3rd party processors do it to minimize the chargebacks, but you lose a lot of potential buyers.

With your own merchant account you can design your own join page and find a perfect balance.

What you have said here, I have heard about this before. my good friend told me he had the same experience. The bank always side with the customer. So he only use Merchant account for Tangible products and not memberships, for memberships is uses 3rd party billers. He say there long history and resources for dealing with Refunds and so on are better than he can do.

I hope I will have a different fate if I choose to do a merchant account.

Thank you so much for you reply man.

I see what you saying. You are saying, tell the customer the truth about conversions, rebills and so on. But. don't tell them so loudly. Now that is a good one, and a funny one too LOL.:1orglaugh

Thanks again London.

You can get your own merchant account and then use a gateway company like NetBilling to handle all transactions and customer support. They will do membership refunds and all that stuff for you.