L-Pink

The problem is American consumers that shop on price only and don't care about quality or the working conditions and pay of third world workers. $10 an hour is a lot to pay when most products are now made by $10 a week workers.

.

2012

i gotta job for ya

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Barefootsies

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

kane

I don't know that it is just an American problem I think it is a human problem. There are some people who just feel like they can do what they want and that they are owed something by everyone else. Every country in the world has crime. Many of these acts of crime are people stealing stuff from other people. That will never change. There are always going to be people who will feel it is easier to just take something than to work for it.

If we were to get rid of welfare completely I think some of them people would go out and get a job, but I think a lot of them would turn to crime and we would end up paying for them only instead of the payment being in the form of welfare checks it would be in the form of putting them through the criminal justice system.

Barefootsies

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Gozarian

[QUOTE=Barefootsies;19092501]Then you move to someplace cheaper.

That makes too much sense for many people.

Gozarian

Americans dont have the entitlement attitude market cornered. It is alive and well even in eastern Europe. Work ethic is an oxymoron here in Romania people think they deserve money simply for breathing.

kane

[QUOTE=Gozarian;19093549]It is actually not all the simple for many people.

If you are out of work and looking for a job that pays $10 per hour you likely don't have much, if any, money so the idea of of moving to a different state is pretty much out of the question.

You would likely be better of trying to live as cheaply as you could where you are (even if that means roommates or whatever) and try to go back to school where you could learn to do something that would allow you to make more money.

The working poor are not very mobile.

mce

That is very common all over the world. Politicians are partly to blame-they love promising "magic money" to the electorate-cradle to grave goodies.

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Barefootsies

I can assure you that once you turn down one too many $10.00/hour fry-o-lator jobs, and are reduced to living in your vehicle, you're a gas station away from being "mobile".

Life's about choices. Some money is better than no money. Many have no money, and turning down work.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Gozarian

Payroll taxes we pay are 45.1% (16.5% employee contribution, 28.6% employer contribution) and government cant understand why the 60% of workers are black market employees. If they reduce that burden by half the black market employees would suddenly appear on the books and government will be awash in cash.

bean-aid

To recap, BF tried to get some outsourcing done and offered $4.25 an hour, likely clocked. The people who responded to him told him to fuck off and hence, this thread.

Carry on toots

Barefootsies

Yowsa!!

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

kane

I guess it all depends on how far you fall. If you are homeless, you are kidding yourself if you think you will be able to easily get a job and move. You might be able to, but likely you will end up in shelters and working from there.

If you are not so bad off that you are homeless and you are just poor and barely able to get by you could move, but it isn't so simple as packing up your stuff and moving somewhere else. You would have to save enough money for the actual move itself, then you will need enough money so you can get somewhere to live when you move to this new place. Finding an affordable place to live without a job is not easy, but if you do then you will need to get a job.

In a perfect world, if it all went smoothly you could pull it off, but the big question is: Would the move really help you if you are poor? The answer is not likely.

Sure, you may be able to move somewhere that has a lower cost of living, but the odds are that wages will be lower as well so they will match the cost of living. If you were barely getting by on $10 an hour where you were living and you move to a new state where the cost of living is 30% less, but you are only going to make $8.50 per hour, you likely haven't improved your life much.

Unless a person is willing to either go to school to learn how to do something that pays better or they are willing to work hard and trying to climb the ladder and continue to get better and better jobs moving is not going to help them.

Barefootsies

True.

I am not against programs to help get people back on their feet. But it should not be dragging on for years without change. If they are going to school, trying to work, or doing something to that effect where they are at least trying to better themselves. I think they should get some assistance.

However, those just milking the system should be thrown to the wolves.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Barefootsies

Many, not all, could move back into their parents or a relatives if it gets to that point.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

theking

I am satisfied that most people will go with whatever pays the most...be it...a welfare package...unemployment package...or a job. Especially if it is someone with kids.

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Barefootsies

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Gozarian

Gozarian

Gozarian

This message is hidden because JohnnyClips is on your ignore list.

;)

bean-aid

900X52 weeks is not 89K... that is a fail

Gozarian

JC fail wow that is not unusual

johnnyloadproductions

I had a friend that got laid off of his welding job of $40k a year.
He has a back burner case come up and he was looking at doing 6 months in jail and with 6 months until check in time he figured he'd just sit and wait on his ass playing Grand Theft Auto multiplayer for 6-8 hour stretches at a time.
On unemployment he was making roughly the equivalent of $10 an hour for a 40 hours work week. Why bother to get another job? He didn't feel like working 2nd shift again. He got up to 240 pounds and this was only at 5'5". When he got out of county jail he weighted 160.

The longest clocked work week I've ever done was 73 hours. They wouldn't let me work more than that but there was one stretch where I went into my welding job for 40+ days straight.
What got depressing was going into work at 7pm, getting out at 7am then going to sleep at 10am and waking up at 6pm and realize in an hour you have to be at work.
Tears began rolling down my eyes because the only social life I had were the breaks permitted with the other people who were pissed off because they were stuck there for life.

It's so important to map out your day and figure out what you want or you'll just be an old, angry, and grumpy man like the rest of that bunch in that shop (which wasn't even union btw).

anexsia

Damn When I turned 19 I got a 1 bedroom apartment around here for $600/month...the neighborhood was really ghetto but I was always working or at school so it didn't matter to me plus they kept the apartments really clean inside.

SuckOnThis

Corporate welfare costs this country 4X compared to welfare for the poor and look what people are bitching about. The FOX propaganda machine is quite effective.

Paul Markham

And that job is very likely now being done in the Far East and the dicks heads here screaming get a job will be buying the coats.

The world has changed in terms of employment. The problem is some people's thinking hasn't. In saying "get a job" when they don't have the qualifications to do most on offer, people are now looking at unemployment as a life style and the solutions are useless and outdated.

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Paul Markham

Only if all the people working "off the books" returned to working on the books. Go do the sums.

If they catch and penalise those paying the illegal workers money, big fines that discouraged the practice. Then there would be a better response.

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Paul Markham

So that's the situation. What's the solution?

So you buy from local shops selling only American made goods?

Still you state the problem, tell us the solution.

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kane

This is actually a good point about one of the major issues we are facing as a country. If an employer didn't provide health insurance they might be able to pay more, but even with that extra money most people wouldn't be able to afford the insurance on their own. The out of control upward spiraling cost of health insurance in general in one of those things that is bleeding into all sectors of our economy and life in this country.



It is a crazy catch 22. If you work at Walmart chances are the only place you can afford to shop is Walmart. Local can cost a decent amount more. I live in a small town and we have three grocery stores. Two of them are big chains and have almost the exact same prices. The third is a locally owned store. It does decent because it was here before either of the chain stores were and it has local produce and local meet so it has some good support. But their prices are often 20% higher so if you are on a budget you likely end up choosing one of the other two stores.

JFK

one fitty lazy bastards

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Paul Markham

Agreed. The cost of Health Care in the US is a prime argument against privatisation. Countries with a Government supplied Health Care system often provide a better system for a lot less money for all citizens..

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tony286

Actually the 50's on you had vacations, time off and benefits were coming in. I remember in the sixties my dad had all of that and since he worked for a bank ,he got low low interest mortgages. No the big difference was a CEO was happy making 50x the avg worker not 500x.
My Dad told me about the recession in the 70's not one person was laid off, salaries were frozen but no one was getting fired. It was considered a loss of face for a CEO to lay people off. They would have anniversary pins and you had people there up to 50 yrs. Back then they were people not human capital.

Barefootsies

Agreed. That shit is whack.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Buff

If you dismantled the welfare state completely, including social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, etc. -- all of it -- this would be a self-correcting problem within weeks.

You want more government? This is more government. And it's going to keep getting worse.

Rochard

The recession in the 1970s wasn't nearly as bad as what we just went through.

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L-Pink

Damn Scooter, did you type that while riding your skateboard? lol

.

tony286

Of course not.But it didnt help the mass laying off of people. Our economy is based on spending. Germany took less of a hit because of the action they took instead of having a layoff blood bath.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freee...ry_comparisons
"Germany proceeded to protect its labour market from major disruption by the great recession, through the use of its "short work" labour sharing programme. Firms were encouraged to cut hours rather than jobs, and workers facing reduced work hours were provided an income subsidy. The result? Germany's huge output fall produced only a labour market wiggle."

Barefootsies

Instead of investing in war, and corporate bail outs, what are your thoughts on doing a 2012 versus of "The New Deal" with massive government spending on public works projects? By that I mean, repairing and upgrading this country's infrastructure that is crumbling? Not pork barrel bullshit.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Paul Markham

I think you should take this idea to the poorer areas of your city.

It's about as stupid a theory I've heard here for a while.

Let's look at the alternatives.

Private enterprise are in the business of reducing costs, the workforce is a major cost. Reduce it and you have more for the shareholders.

The notion that tax cuts will produce a turn around is dead in the water. It's just those who are taxed want more and fuck anyone else who suffers. The extra spending will result in extra imports. Most businesses will not employ more, they will gear up and produce more with the same work force. Unless they absolutely have to. See above for why.

Public spending is always an employer who takes on more people than it needs. Just the nature of the beast. It won't open factories in China or any 3rd World Country like private enterprise does. It has to buy goods made in the US where possible. A 21st century version of The New Deal, will provide for the country so much. The Hoover Dam provides for LA and Vegas. Solar panels in the deserts and South America could provide all the day time electricity for the US. Stumbling block is the Private enterprise owned electricity companies.

And I'm sure there are other schemes that could be started by the Government to get economies moving again. One is Bank Loans. The Banks were bailed out after the crash with a huge amount of tax payers money on the understanding that the money would be fed into the economy via loans. Only a small part of it was. Same is happening in the UK. I believe banks are part of private enterprise.

I never thought I would think like this, it's just the last 10 or so years that I've seen the big businesses lose all morals and ethics to line their own pockets that I've changed. And I am in no way calling for Communism, just to do what is needed when required.

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