How are programs allowed to runs this kind of scams?

Big deal. Who cares.

I've seen worse, but no idea how they get away with it.

There are people who are trying to make a little money on their CCbill paysites with $19.99 memberships, with no luck . I feel bad for them because how can you compete against this?

Pretty clear it's a free 2 day trial and a couple of x-sales.

Nothing special or illegal about that.

The customer only has to uncheck the "bonus" box and cancel the membership immediately.

And of course, if they don't do that and get pissed off when they see their statement...banks do chargebacks on porn sites with no questions asked.

So they get their money back and the site gets chargebacks against it.

If you have a site that really has value, you don't need to play the x-sales game.
But I do admit I've seen a few peoples numbers from a few years back when x-sales were huge. And they were making millions off of them every month.

By the way, I just had the Kinetico Water system put in my home.

It came with a FREE 10 day trial.

At the end of the 10 days I was charged $3600
I could have had them come and take it back after 10 days and not been charged at all...just like the surfer can cancel that trial membership and not be charged within 2 days.

As shady as may look, they are playing by the rules set forth by Visa and the companies processing them.

It's pre-checked, but it's pretty obviously pre-checked. That's much better than the buried-under-the-fold stuff that was going on awhile back.

I can't believe peope are defending this shit. Has the comunity really changed so much that's it's became norm to rip people off like that?

We need Frank on the case.

There is nothing obvious about it. Who are you kidding?

It's being pushed with the emphasis on "FREE MEMBERSHIP for $0.00 - No Charge".

They are hoping to divert the surfers attention from the hell he's gonna get into that's listed on the right side.

this shit was really bad years ago. We all know the ones that went crazy with it and look where they are now. Along with all the fucking customers that use to spend money. Gone....

It is obvious in comparison to many pre-checks that I've seen. I know what they are hoping for.

The reason that form is misleading is because it suggests if you uncheck the *bonus offer* box, you uncheck all cross sales.

I don't think that is what is going on (I may be wrong but I doubt it). What happens is the surfer unchecks the *bonus offer* and has then signed up for 2 trials (the second trial not realizing). That would be to FreeHDGayAccess ****AND**** Premier Passport. Yet, by unclicking the box they *think* all cross-sales are removed.

I'm not sure if freehdgayaccess is a trial that converts to premium automatically. So it is either 3 or 4 upsells coming to that surfer in a couple of days.

In that other thread about them, these people have been linked to CEcash / CCbill ( http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1032537 )

Would be nice to see any comments from these companies.

No need to worry my friend, as stated in the terms...

So just cancel and go fap to some gay porn.

The reason the form is misleading is because it says free all over it and they don't want the surfer to see beyond that.

I think the form draws attention to the bonus offers. What it buries is the x-sale to premier passport.

And then the whip comes down... You are completely missing the OP's point...



I have been promoting Duke Dollars since the day before they went public. Around April 2004? Give or take? I am a very low two-digit affilate. Replies like this just make your employers look stupid.

Better you shut up and back off. Let Sherm handle PR. You fail at it, miserably.

I can't believe that Duke is paying you to insult people on a public forum. I was trading traffic with Sperm Shack since 2008, Sherm Shack a couple of years later. I signed up for Duke Dollars April 2004. Now I have to deal with you and read your fat man bullshit? Fuck you. What a joke. Links pulled. What a sad fucking joke you are.

Why the fuck would anyone ever hire this fat confrontational piece of shit? Guns are good!

What's going on here? Why are you so pissed?

Shady shit like that does far more damage to the industry than tubes ever will.

Every single person that signs up with these sites and gets cross-selled, card-banged to death will never buy porn again.

I'd say they are being nice, they even put red arrows pointing to the charges!

This is common practice in the SEXTRONIX "free" sites... And everyone here thinks normal!

I don't need to defend anything. I pointed out that it's all pretty clear on the page.

I also pointed out that it's easy for the surfer to get their money back if they are so naive and out of touch that they've never seen that kind of marketing before:
For instance I posted about the Kintetico Water System that had a 10 day FREE trial..and then I paid $3600
I didn't consider that a "scam", just marketing. Same with a Dyson air cleaner I bought a few months ago. It was "Free" and then I started making payments on it 30 days later. lol.

I also have a "Bill Me Later" account through PayPal. It's advertised as 6 months (12 months for bigger purchases) NO INTEREST!!!
What they don't tell you is that if you don't pay it all off in 6 months that you then get nailed for all the previous month's interest.

It's just basic marketing....but as I also said, if you have a site (like I feel I do) that is a great value on it's own, then you don't need to use x-sales of any kind.

Now a few years ago when sites started doing hidden x-sales and even were putting a NEW hidden x-sale on the cancel page...THAT was a scam and very, very shady.

The join page you are showing doesn't look bad to me at all.
And if there is any human being over the age of 12 who hasn't seen and understands x-sales, bonus offer, and "free" trials I would be surprised. They must have been living under a rock or something.
Everybody does it in "real" life and online. Not just "adult" sites.

baryl, you are so wrong about that.

X-sales were done in this industry since the 1990's. Sales ROARED.
Piracy took off giving it all away for free in mass around 2009...sales DIED.

Even Stevie Wonder could see that.

Well why don't you just go and cry about it then you big sissy?

Not sure how my reply was promoting Duke Dollars or handling PR for them, nor do I see anything about guns in this post. Guns are good.. where did I post that?

Sorry that you don't know how to deal with a post that simply states a fact. It maybe a fact that you disagree with, and that's fine. Sorry you're not intelligent enough to speak on a subject without resorting to name calling and grade school insults. OH NOES, my feelings are so hurt... he called me fat.

hint for you... look up the meaning of confrontational.

That's my thinking too

How do you think programs can afford the high PPS amounts affiliates demand?
Recurring memberships?

CE doesnt answer to ANYONE and doesnt really have to.....you have already figured out what site to promote and where they buy the traffic....you are 2/3 of the way there genius....now all you need is the 100k per month for advertising and you just won the lottery

Pretty sure affiliates can't promote those sites, and even if they could, they wouldn't be getting credit for all the cross sales

It's an in-house project.

The $ has to come from somewhere.

you can't compare the two things at all. the real comparison would be if you ordered the water system but then were given two free trials for products you've never seen or heard of before on top of that. also, one of the cross sales is impossible to opt out of, the 'premier passport'. there is no way to uncheck that one. the 'bonus offer' is just for the two sites below it.

cecash and 12clickcash ... known xsales supporters, now you see how shit those people are. even if its legal, they know they are making people pay for prechecked shit, selling sites that are worth a total shit, so from the beginning just operation in hope to get people scammed ... fuck off 12clickscash and cecash, you fucking idiot pussies!

See, that is where they get you. I didn't even notice the one you can't opt out of. I just saw the two under BONUS OFFER and I was looking to see what the problem was.

Which leads me right back to what I've always thought about the majority of the unauthorized charge complaints out there. If they can sneak one past me then they can sneak them past most people. And that's not even counting all the other places they can do this, cancel page, approval page, upgrades, mailers, and so on. To this day I honestly believe there has been less "card banging" going on that people think and more sneaky cross sales consumers simply didn't notice. But I could be wrong.

Isn't the "premiere passport" the trial membership converting? It's not a x-sale as I am looking at the join page.
If you cancel the membership before two days you never get charged for the trial converting (the "premiere passport")

And that is the part I'm comparing to ALL free trials. Cause that's exactly what that is.

The cross sales weren't the part I was comparing to the water system I bought.

you ever try canceling a dodgy porn subscription?

they're pretty good at making it as difficult as possible.

No, but I'm not sure what a "dodgy" porn subscription is.

I remember about 5 years ago there were some companies (who aren't in business anymore ~quickbuck~ cough~ quickbuck~) who used to do HIDDEN x-sales and hidden x-sales on the cancel page.
I would consider that to be VERY "dodgy"

But Visa/MasterCard new regulations seem to have put a stop to that kind of thing.

As far as I can tell, that join page is a simple free trial that converts in 2 days unless you cancel. It also has a pre-checked "bonus" box x-sale.

From what we can all see...if you uncheck the bonus box and cancel the membership within 2 days you pay: nothing. And you would get 2 days to download and steal the entire members area... lol

I don't see that it's "dodgy" in any way.
Is it "misleading"? Maybe.

Is all advertising misleading? Hell yes.

I ate my Wheaties as a kid and I still never became an Olympic champion.
I went to Carl's Jr./Hardees and ordered a burger and for some reason didn't end up with Paris Hilton in a bikini washing my car.

Advertising is supposed to paint a great picture and sell the product. Free trials are great marketing.

I don't use that kind of thing because I don't have too. Matter of fact, I don't do trials or x-sales at all for Claudia Marie's site.

But I don't think that join page we are looking at here is a "scam" as the OP states in the title of his thread.

And I don't think that would ever deter a guy who loves porn from ever buying another membership. It certainly didn't through the 1990's and 2000's up until PIRACY turned the business upside down.

I'm far more worried about pirate sites giving away the entire members areas of paysites. THAT is what pisses off a customer. When they find that the site they have been paying for over the last couple of years is actually FREE everywhere on the net.

That would leave me with a very bad taste in my mouth. And the numbers show that.

If you look at numbers, X-sales had no effect on sales whatsoever...matter of fact business boomed during those years.

It wasn't until pirate sites got such big numbers around 2007 that business started to decline. And by 2009 piracy was in full effect.

Everytime I tell someone that I'm in the porn business they ALWAYS reply to me: "Do people still pay for that? I thought it was all free."

Never once in my life has anyone said: "Oh my God! I would never try to buy a membership, I heard they have x-sales and free trials!"

But that's just my opinion from what I have watched happen over the years.

Look at Naughty America for instance.
They never, ever did x-sales or any of the so-called "shady" billing practices. Their reputation for awesome content and clean joins is known everywhere. And if you had ever surfed their "Naughty Country Club" forums a few years back you would have seen that the surfers of the world KNEW that very well.

But these days their shit is EVERYWHERE for free.
I used to make a lot of sales for Naughty America (going back to when they started as SoCal Cash). But these day? I can't make a sale for them to save my soul.

THAT is piracy at work.

I was always confused by this. Doesn't it say:

1) You get the site free
2) You get Premier Passport for 2 days that rebills at $39.95 (you can't opt out of this)
30 There are 2 bonus offers, that you can opt out of. One rebills at $49 and the other at $39.

http://www.scambook.com/search/repor...r+passportgoog

I don't think #2 complies with Visa Regulations and pretty sure the term FREE is regulated by the FTC: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/free.htm

(f) Introductory offers. (1) No ``Free'' offer should be made in connection with the introduction of a new product or service offered for sale at a specified price unless the offeror expects, in good faith, to discontinue the offer after a limited time and to commence selling the product or service promoted, separately, at the same price at which it was promoted with the ``Free'' offer.

Why do you say you can't opt out of this?

That's the free trial. All you have to do is cancel it within two days. That is "opting out".

Am I missing something here?

The free trial is to: FreeHDGayAccess.com

The extra offer that you can't opt out of is to their "sister site" Premier PassPort.

Okay, I'm reading the join page and quote:
"includes a 2 day free trial promo to Premier Passport, our sister site. TO AVOID BEING CHARGED SIMPLY CANCEL YOUR PREMIER PASSPORT MEMBERSHIP BEFORE THE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP ENDS"

That is their "all caps" on the join page, not mine.

So where am I going wrong here? I'm guessing (and only guessing) that the FreeHDGayAccess.Com site is probably one of those shitty "limited" sites that doesn't show much. And the enticement is to continue on with Premier Passport so you get the "good stuff".

Just sounds like marketing to me.

Not the kind I use because I don't need it.

So is there something wrong with what they are doing, or am I still not reading it correctly? It appears to me that all you have to do is cancel Premier Passport within 2 days to not be charged.

I'm just referring to Visa Rules. Pretty sure if you showed this to Visa, they would consider the Premier Passport a cross sale that you can't opt out of. However, I'm sure the join pages that get submitted for approval look nothing like this. Yes, you are right- it's marketing- deceptive marketing which is an age old practice both within adult and mainstream. For some they get caught and it blows up in their face and for others they slide by.

Having to cancel after I'm subscribing to something is not the same as been able to opt out from the start.

it says if you cancel the premier passport your membership to freegayhdwhatever remains active, which is the site they are initially selling.they are being signed up for 2 trials, both of which they have to separately cancel. the premier passport is a cross sale, one which they can't opt out of.

if you are talking about free trials in general, then sure your scenario could apply but it just doesn't fully apply in this case where customers are being sold sites they have never seen before in regard to the cross sells. i have no problem with free trials and get that they are used everywhere but you'd be hard pressed to find such aggressive upsells elsewhere.

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edit:ok, so i read your reply above and yeah, it does sound like one of those limited 'nothing' sites. so the surfer thinks hes getting 'lifetime access' to something, which is really nothing. its all just a way to get the surfer signed up for something he thinks is totally free, when its not.

sites like this are just made to sell cross sales really and nothing more. this is obviously how they make the bulk of their money, content has little to nothing to do with it. its all a numbers game.

Agreed. It's not even really in the "porn business" if you ask me.
As you said...it's just a numbers game. The "porn" is just the bait. You could replace "porn" with any other commodity I suppose.

Don't sweat it. My #1 site was passed in Google's rankings by a PlugRush virus infested site. I clicked on the site to see what was so new and cool about it, and on their content page I see tons of PlugRush links. One picture and maybe two dozen PlugRush links.The first three lnks I clicked on tried to install viruses.

The whole internet has gone to hell in a handbasket. Its not really worth working online unless you are a thief.

you need to cancel the credit card